Democracy

[TheRealFolkBlues]

While it beats communism/socialism, democracy still sucks. Most people are too stupid and ignorant to vote. How do I know this? Everyone I know complains about the government running their lives, mishandling the Iraq War, the economy, but then go vote for someone like Hillary or McCain. It's also important to point out the founding fathers cherished liberty, not democracy

The perfect government system would probably be a mix of the Constitution and philosopher kings.

[araharu]

Democracy, as I see it, is the lesser of all the evils of government. At least this way, everybody gets a say.

[darkarcher]

the founding fathers cherished liberty, not democracy
Umm...the founding fathers considered democracy to be the catalyst of liberty. Liberty comes from people having freedom, which the Founders considered to be brought about from the ability to vote.

[TheRealFolkBlues]

except the fathers only gave the right to vote to white males who owned property.

ever since minorities and women had the right to vote, we've had presidents who push a socialist agenda.

[WillPhanto1]

ever since minorities and women had the right to vote, we've had presidents who push a socialist agenda.
Okay. . .That's a little. . .umm. . .yeah.

But you do have point, there are people pushing socialist-ish agendas, even though most socialist countries have failed, and people in general don't really have any rights. Alot people seem to think that the government should be taking care of everyone like some kind a parent. But I do think that some things should be government services (i.e. schools, roads, emergency services, police, etc.).

[HeavyDDR]

Is there any good system of government?

No?

I rest my case.

[MrsSallyBakura]

And anarchy is also a crappy idea. But some probably count that as a form of government.

People are imperfect, and since government is run by people, it's going to be imperfect. :/
Alot people seem to think that the government should be taking care of everyone like some kind a parent. But I do think that some things should be government services (i.e. schools, roads, emergency services, police, etc.).
Exactly. Big government = bad, but it has to run a few things.

[Henriksson]

<i>Post censored by DarkWarrior.</i>

[DarkWarrior]

Okay. . .That's a little. . .umm. . .yeah.
But it's also very true. Much as the fact hurts, he's right.

Also:Everyone I know complains about the government running their lives, ... , the economy,
The others in this list, I see a point, much as I disagree. But "their lives"...Not really. There are laws that keep the peace, but as a general rule, you're still able to do pretty much what you want. Also, the government doesn't run the economy. Period.

[TheRealFolkBlues]

But I do think that some things should be government services (i.e. schools, roads, emergency services, police, etc.).
Public schools are trash and should be privatized.

Leave infrastructure to private companies.

Universal health care would be a disaster in America. Medicare and medicaid alone are a disaster.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it state anything about police. We have the Second Amendment that allows law-abiding citizens to bear arm, so police are pointless. Then again, the government needs to "enforce the law".

[Henriksson]

How about Scandinavian countries? The wellfare model has been called by ex-Soviets the utopia communism failed to accomplished. In case you haven't noticed, Scandinavian countries have an extremely high HDI.

[killshot]

Universal health care would be a disaster in America. Medicare and medicaid alone are a disaster.

How would a universal health care system be any worse than what we have now? I am usually against the government being in control of anything, but I don't see how it could hurt to give a new system a chance.

[TheFall]

Well, democracy suckishness depends on the situation. If the people are smart, see the bigger picture, or something close to those, it's a great thing. But, let's say the people are stupid, selfish, uncaring, or something among those lines. The democratic nation wouldn't be too great, huh?

[inamerica55585]

government in itself defeats itself. this is because it places power in the hands of the few, who slowly take all the power.

You can call America a democracy all you want, its still an oligarchy.

I'm a 7th grader. if you don't know what oligarchy means, I suggest you take a break from your shift at your local fast food franchise and read a ********** dictionary! <img src='/images/emoticons/smiley3.png'>

[Henriksson]

Amen to that, bro! <img src='/images/emoticons/smiley2.png'>

I kinda like the European model of a democracy. The actual Prime Minister/President/Whatever doesn't have much power by themselves compared to the American president, a conclusion in, for example, the parliament/riksdag/whatever has to be reached (and those are actual representatives from the people, from all parties that got votes in the election, not just one) which means there is true democracy.

America can wave with apple pie and base ball bats all they want, they're less of a democracy than the more sophisticated people across the ocean. <img src='/images/emoticons/smiley1.png'>

In contrast, Iran is only a democracy one day every four years. On the election day. <img src='/images/emoticons/smiley2.png'>

[klokwerk]

Canada has universal healthcare, and people are wating DAYS to see doctors in hospitals. A couple of my friends used to live in canada. One of their grandmothers broke their leg and waited 3 days in the hospital wating room to see a doctor. By then, the bone had started to heal and had to be re-broken.

[Majick]

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill.

[killshot]

In America, we have senior citizens who have to make a choice between buying medicine and eating. The cost of treatment is so outrageous that many American citizens drive to Canada to buy medication. I understand the flaws associated with a government sponsered healthcare system, but a change needs to be made.

[klokwerk]

A change, but not a government controlled one.

[Rakatung]

Well, here in Denmark democracy works pretty well, i think mostly because we have a pretty high voting percentage of 80-85% and about 7-8 parties for you to vote on.

so i can't complain

[klokwerk]

American has 2 main parties and a few smaller parties that never win and a voting percentage in the 50 - 60% range.

[killshot]

More like 25 -30%.

[klokwerk]

Thanks for the correction.

[BoxOfFun]

Democracy is a terrible form of government. Problem is, there aren't any better ones.

[klokwerk]

lesser of the evils

[toph3r]

well, I'm not going to say you're wrong, BoxOfFun, but I am going to disagree that Democracy is a terrible form of government. Most forms are good in one or another, it's just that there is always a problem, and that problem is so ironic: the Human element. The point of government is to keep society in decent order, but society is unpredictable! But of course it is! We're Human! For example, Communism, great concept, bad idea. Humans can't live in perfect 100% equality, because we are all different. Democracy is the best form of government at this time because the human element IS the government. It changes, it grows, it advances, it worsens, it improves just like humanity, and it does all that together with humanity.

I don't want to keep explaining what democracy is, because I'm sure you all know exactly what it is or already have your own take on it.

Anyway, I think part of the reason Denmark's democracy works so well is that the population is only around 5 million and the education and literacy rate are probably much higher than the US. However, America has a working Democracy right now, it's just that the People are not taking their right to power. Ever since the New Deal, the President has been gaining more and more power. Also, Congressmen have never done anything but try to get re-elected. Plus, The Supreme Court has been rather Activist for the past few decades, so they are practically writing legislation when that is not their responsibility. And the media just makes things worse (especially with their strong left influence).

Well I could go on about this for awhile, so I guess all I can say is this: If you live in America, do what you can to influence the nation. Don't let media tell you what to believe, and don't let poiticians tell you what you want. That means telling Obama that you don't want a government-controlled healthcare system which is proven to work poorly in Canada (if that's your opinion), and telling McCain that we can't just stay in Iraq forever (if that's your opinion).

Anyway (again), I suggest listening to a radio show called the Glenn Beck Program. It's very informative and it opens your eyes. Plus it's pretty funny. But listen and watch other sources too. You can't form an opinion from hearing only one side.

okay I'm done.

[LastExileAbridged]

Okay,
At the risk of being wildly unpopular here, I'm going to point out that we do not in fact live in a Democracy. We live in a Democratic republic, a term made up that supposedly describes a republic that prefers to apply democratic principles to it's government e.g. citizen wisdom. A true, Athenian democracy would be catastrophically chaotic in a modern civilization. Knowing the inherent flaws in democracy, philosopher Plato wrote "The Republic," a series of volumes explaining many of the problems of democracy.
Do not misunderstand me, I do not hate democracy or it's ideals, but that's the thing; Democracy is just an idea, and it's role in a more structured government can bring liberty. But, when used as it's own form of government, it sucks.
The reason that TheRealFolkBlues claims that our republic sucks is because he believes it is his governments' fault. This is not the case. It is your fault. Well... not specifically any of you, but the american public. Do you realize that less than 25% of the population of elligable voters get to (essentially) decide who the next president is. This is because of voter apathy.
Our founding fathers built this country with democracy as one of it's key ideals. They founded the USA on ideas, and not a riligion, or any other establishment. They believed that because of citizen wisdom, the people would, as a whole, choose the wisest of them to lead. Let me conclude this with a question: Can 25% truly be considered as "a whole" of a population?

[LastExileAbridged]

BTW, this means that you are both right and wrong, BoxOfFun. Democracy is a horrible form of government for our current demands as a growing world. But, there is a better form of government, a republic. (don't buy into that crap that china feeds other nations about it being a, "people's republic." it is really just a communist dictatorial regime.)
Also, I find it hilarious when bush rants about how we need to "spread democracy," when in actuality, all he has done is suppress democratic ideals in his own country via the patriot act (which suppresses freedom of privacy, therefore freedom of speech) to spread republicanism. Not democracy. The reason he says this is because republicanism can be associated with lesser liked governments like china, yet every American loves democratic ideals. Only problem is, they confuse this with democracy as a government.

[Elbarto]

Bush is possibly the most idiotic, misguided person ever to live on the face of our planet. But enough of that: Democracy doesnt work because people are stupid, and ignorant. A frighteningly large portion of the population doesnt vote, or keep up to date with politics/world affairs. Now, I dont know too much on this subject, since Im a minor, but at least I try and stay informed.

I have had countless debates with my friend, who supports China zealously, and he refuses to acknowlege that China's government isnt even a communism anymore; Its essentially a dictatorship. I asked him about what his opinions were on Gay Marriage and he told me 'gay people are an affront to god, and should go to hell.'

So the conclusion is; Everyone is essentially brainwashed to some extent into believing what their parents believe. I was brought up as a left-wing, because my father holds these beliefs. My friend was brough up to never acknowledge China's faults and believe everything the bible told him. Its easy to get sucked into these traps, but the best way to form your own opinion about these things is STAY INFORMED!

[Amber]

I live in Canada and I have my whole life. I can truthfully say that our healthcare system isn't as bad as you always hear. Infact, a few months ago my sister had been in an accident and they took her into the emergency room right away. The longest I've had to wait in the emergency room is maybe an hour or so -- and that's when it's busy. Some people have to wait longer than that, but it's usually not the case at all. My other sister had a rash this morning and my mum called the doctor's office and was able to schedule an appointment for 2pm. I definitely prefer our healthcare system over the crazy stuff I hear about in the US.

[klokwerk]

I hear horrible stories about the Canadian healthcare system, what do you hear about the U.S.?

[JesusRocks]

Hmm never noticed this thread... are we talking Representative Democracy, Deliberative Democracy or Market Democracy?

[klokwerk]

Whatever the American one is.

[JesusRocks]

Representative Democracy then... same as most other Democratic countries...

[Koganeikun]

<i>Post censored by darkarcher.</i>

[darkarcher]

Off topic completely.

[OverMind]

Canadian perspective on the American health-care system:

A. Medical care, being privatized is expensive ...
Not a problem if you're healthy and/or rich, not so great if you're poor, without insurance, suffering from an incurable disease, and/or all of the above.

B. Middle-class Americans suffering because ...
They don't have insurance and, as such, refuse to seek medical attention or seek medical attention but are drowning in bills. Relates to A., however, I've read somewhere that pregnancy/birth delivery costs a couple $10,000 US, so costs incur for even the average, healthy individual.

C. Hospitals bent on making a profit ...
Unnecessary medical procedures for the sake of charging more, ignoring or exaggerating the diagnosis if it nets money.

No references, these are just misconceptions and you could probably easily refute them. But these misconceptions get thrown a lot here in Canada, especially in politics. Apparently, our health care system is vital to the moral and cultural fibre of our society, to the point that even mentioning privatization is akin to political suicide. It's strange that a social service "unites Canadians" in the way that it does and makes us proud, perhaps the best analogy in American culture would be their gun policy/right to bear arms. Personally, I think we tend to emphasize elements of Canadian society that differ greatly from our American cousins (e.g. aforementioned healthcare system, gun control, Tim Hortons, being a peaceful nation unwilling to start unnecessary wars, etc.) and we label it as culture.

In fairness, our system isn't as bad as the stories you hear, but it isn't the best in the world either (I hear France currently holds that title). I'd also assume that the wealthiest nation in the world (though quirky compared to the rest of the west (see Religious Fundamentalism in the US, or giving creationism credence, or abstinence as a substitute for proper sex education, or their strange liberal gun policy, or using Imperial units while the rest of the world is using SI, or their death penalty among other things)) would have a decent system that also has a few kinks that need to be worked out.