American Pride

[toph3r]

I said in my Independence Day thread that I would make a more serious topic here, so here it is.

Americans, this Fourth of July, remember what the day means. What it means to you, to your country. Times now are getting hard for all Americans. Gas Prices are rising, the economy is sinking, the dollar is losing its value, many nations don\'t like us. But we are America, The United States of America! We can get through anything. Together as a nation we can accomplish the greatest of feats. Our country broke from a powerful nation 232 years ago, battled with itself and reunited, fought in two world wars, and survived the Great Depression. We can do so much, but we have to do it ourselves. No one will do it for us. Not a president, not the Congress, not the government, not politicians.

No, they will not be responsible for keeping this country great. They are not responsible for it. You are. I am. All of us are the ones, the leaders of this country, who will do the right thing for the nation. We don\'t need to make America great. America already is great, and it is our job to maintain that status. Now, more than ever, is the time to be proud to be an American. Even if you believe that America is responsible for much environmental damage, or should not be in Iraq anymore, or isn\'t doing enough in some other way, those are not reasons to lose faith. Those are reasons to inspire and excite the American Pride in yourself and those around you. If you are looking for a leader for our country, look no further than yourself. That\'s why the Founding Fathers wrote, \"We The People.\"

Your American spirit should be full and excited this Independence Day, but don\'t let it stop there. Keep your patriotism strong all year round and do your part to keep America great. You already know you have the answers. Now it\'s time to use them.

God Bless America

[Tatterdemalion]

I'm sorry, but nationalism really isn't my cup of tea. Or patriotism, to use a less militaristic term. Patriotism really isn't my cup of tea.

I don't mean to rain on your Independence Day, but honestly...you say "we" are responsible for keeping America "great"...assuming that America already is "great"...but you say nothing to qualify that. I don't really see what you're saying, other than giving a senseless motivational speech that doesn't really mean anything.

I mean, really, your post is about national pride, but I don't quite see how there's anything to be proud of...it seems that your reasoning is that we should be proud simply because "we're America"...but by that logic, being proud simply because you exist takes all meaning away from the concept of pride itself...

In short, I hear you, but it sounds like marketing copy. Why should we feel in any way proud simply because we're citizens of a particular political state? What is there to be proud of, and furthermore, how are we in any way connected to it? A person feels proud of who they are, where they are, and where they came from. A person feels proud of there culture. I'm a New Yorker, and I'm proud of that, but for good reason. But with regards to America, there is no American culture as far as I'm concerned, at least none that warrants anything that even comes close to resembling pride.

So you can have your patriotism, thank you very much, but I myself won't subscribe. Mark Twain was an American, and he's the sort of guy I guess I could be proud of, but it ends there.

And I used to be annoyed when people said "God Bless America". now I'm starting to get offended.

[ArtificialRobot]

Protest is patriotic.

[Tatterdemalion]

No it's not, that's just something they made up to give protesting a good name.

Protesting is political. That is, protesting is a way of expressing dissatisfaction with a particular something-or-other. Patriotism is an unquestioning sense of ambiguous duty to and love of one's country, for no established reason. Thw two have nothing to do with each other.

There are those who say "protesting is patriotic, because people who protest want the best for their country, and therefore love their country, and feel an ambiguous patriotic duty to it". The problem is that it's quite a leap to suggest that people who protest do it out of a love of their country, and not out of a general interest in improving the quality of their life...and no, the two are not the same thing, because while patriotism is a sense of pride and loyalty, improving the quality of one's life is a business negotioation, involving haggling and paperwork.

The idea that somehow protesting is patriotic is as unfounded as the idea that war is patriotic...it's a marketing ploy, nothing more.

Pro patria, right? No, not quite.

[PersianSpice]

Meh.

[ArtificialRobot]

I did not see it as a marketing ploy. I saw the phrase on the sign of a protester in a documentary about John Lennon.

I was not trying to offend your blast at patriotism or nationalism. In fact, I was also trying to take a stab at the macho idea of what patriotism has become. 'Protest is patriotic' is just a succinct poetic phrase with layered meanings. It reminds me of the Boston Tea Party. However, I do appreciate your love for the language as it is a love that I share.

[Tatterdemalion]

In that case, your comment is well taken, by me at least. Although there are a significant number of people who do use it as a marketing ploy (media types, especially), so we'd better both be on the lookout for them.

It's a strange thing what's happened to protest. It seems that in the United States it's lost all meaning, as it has come to the point where it's viewed as almost a part of the democratic process, which has ironically enough allowed it to become completely meaningless.

It's as though we've come to the point where we treat protest as something mundane, and ordinary, which effectively allows us to ignore it. We treat protest as though it's some sort of sanctioned event that you go and take part in for maybe a day or so. It's as though you get out, go to the protest, then go home when the protest is over, and somehow it's supposed to make a difference...not because the protest has actually done something, but because protest is just what you're expected to do when something's bothering you. In reality, though, it's like the government's complaints department...you get angry, you stay on hold or in line for a few hours, then you eventually speak to a representative for a few minutes, and you leave feeling as though you've accomplished something, even though you've done nothing of the sort.

Barbara Mikkelson says something very interesting that I think is very relevant here. In discussing what she calls "slacktivism", in association with petitions, she says that "signatures are not votes"...that is, even though petitions express public opinion, simply signing a petition isn't the solution to every problem in the world. Likewise, protests aren't votes either. The fact that someone's going out and protesting, participating in their little ritual dance, doesn't mean that it's the automatic solution to all of the problems of the world. The fact that you're protesting is meaningless unless you actually make your protesting mean something. And most people, it seems, are content to go through the motions and call it a day.

Now, just for fun, I'm going to ask...what was the last major protest in the United States? Well, to be honest, it was the most recent WGA strike. And why was it major? Because as it happened, things were not able to carry on as usual, because the protest, in this case a strike, was disruptive enough to have an impact on the country...now, granted, it was a strike in the most major political area (writers in the entertainment industry), but still, it's a good example, because it demonstrates that a protest is not merely symbolic, it is meant to be disruptive enough to force a change...something most people don't seem to be willing to do.

And that rant wasn't directed specifically towards you, it was just a general observation, so don't take it as some sort of an attack, or anything of that nature.

[killshot]

This post sums up my feelings on national pride quite well. I'm so sick of blind patriotism.

[ArtificialRobot]

Can do. I like what you're posting!

I was very excited when I had heard that the truckers were going to protest against the high gas prices. I was disappointed when I found out that nothing too solid came of it. I was looking forward to seeing how it would play out, because we just don't do that sort of thing anymore.

Slacktivism. Good word.

[Zairak]

Going ever so slightly off track, I find myself wondering: What exactly inspires national pride? I have been pondering this while perusing this topic and I realized I have no idea what could elicit such a thing. Perhaps one of you could enlighten me on this?

[Tatterdemalion]

Well, that's a pretty big sociological question, but simply put, it's the same thing that causes people to root for their local sports teams, it's the same thing that inspires people to become religious fanatics...it's the same thing that ispires people to join street gangs, and to drink Pepsi instead of Coke.

What it all comes out of is the need to be on the Winning Side...people on their own are just individuals, and weak ones at that...but belonging to a much larger group allows people to feel a sense of importance, a pride in being a part of a much larger whole, that is greater than the individual person. Then, from there, because that's such a good feeling for people, the next step is to polarize all others, to create an enemy, and inspire an "us and them" attitude, because people are more inspired to stick together, and feel a greater sense of unity, when fighting a common enemy, even if this enemy is only in their minds.

And so, people surrender their individuality and free will in order to belong to something that they percieve to be better than them. This is why people get so excited and polarized around election time, because life becomes a sport once again, a chance to root for the winning team. This is why people join cults. This is why people become religious zealots. This is why people like Hitler are able to come to power. This is why Communism was able to rise in Soviet countries, and likewise, why the United States was so enthusiastic to win the Cold War (and Korea, and Vietnam, and any other little wars along the way).

Indeed, the cause of national pride, nationalism, polarization, and the general tendency for people to form into large groups and go to war with each other is little more than very low self esteem.

It's kind of sad when you think about it.

[Zairak]

Well...That is rather sad, actually. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Tatterdemalion]

Yes, it is sad...exceptionally sad. And that's why you shouldn't let yourself succumb to poor self esteem...yep.

[viarules]

We recently moved to the US and after some American holiday, my 7 year old brother came home from school and said to me, "These Americans really like themselves, they have so many holidays celebrating them!"

That, I laughed at.

[Girkon]

Hmmmm whenever I think on this subject it stirs a bit of an old conflict in me that I don't know the answer to yet. On the one hand I believe there is nothing wrong with loving your homeland as long as it doesn't borderline on crazy, or dangerous. I see many examples of other countries doing this as well. Taking potshots at the US for example, as well as referring to some pretty bland stereotypes which I can only describe as ironic.

Yet as it has been stated, it is this self love that indeed causes bad things to happen. More notably in our own country than anywhere else in some respects. Is it just human nature to want to punch the guy who insults you? Though of course reason would dictate that there is no harm in swallowing your pride for the good of everyone around you. That option never seems to get considered a lot though. <img src='/images/emoticons/smiley6.png'>

Hmmmm yeah, it's hard for me to put into words just how sad it all seems in the grand scheme of things. Though if I can sound like a walking cliche. I also know there are plenty of good people out there in the world. In here too I can see, and i've only been looking at the forum for thirty minutes. So I also like to think that there is some hope out there.