difference between kneeling down and bending over

[magick]

The whole foundation of Christianity is based on the idea that intellectualism is the work of the Devil. Remember the apple on the tree? Okay, it was the Tree of Knowledge. "You eat this apple, you're going to be as smart as God. We can't have that."
The essence of Christianity is told to us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions.

Well, I believe that those energies and processes exist. I just don't think that they've been adequately described or adequately named yet, because people are too willing to make it all into something that supports a religious theory of one flavor or another. If you start defining these things in nuts-and-bolts scientific terms, people reject it because it's not fun, y'know. It takes some of the romance out of being dead ... because of people's desires to have eternal life and to extend their influence from beyond the grave ... all that Houdini type stuff ... but basically, I think when you're dead ... you're dead. It comes with the territory.

[OverMind]

So, basically, you're an atheist and you disagree with Christianity (http://www.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/forum/f24/t2966/p12/).

[metroid119]

<i>Post censored by darkarcher.</i>

[killaziv]

I'm Really Sorry But When I First Saw This Topic I Actually Thought It Was Going To Be Something Dirty (Yes I Looked But I Was Curious).

I Don't Understand It Either. Kneeling Down Is To Show Respect I Guess, But Bending Over I Don't Get At All.

[metroid119]

your also forgetting the fact that god already knows the future of everything and purpously had adam eat the fruit to give us free will to choose to beleive in god or not to.

[OverMind]

Of course, that's the most logical explanation to support the already shaky foundation of a belief system based on a series of myths dating back to archaic times.

[metroid119]

myth, legends or folktales. we all choose to beleive what we want

[magick]

No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.

[magick]

No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.

[metroid119]

curiosity killed the cat

[OverMind]

So, then, we shouldn't question anything?

[metroid119]

It's ok to question but ok to bash? some people need religion because of their emotional IQ cant handle the selfawareness of living without one.

[OverMind]

I've looked through all the posts and I can't seem to detect any hint of bashing.

You aren't trying to deflect the original intent of this topic, now are you?

[darkarcher]

some people need religion because of their emotional IQ cant handle the selfawareness of living without one.
Gotta say, this is the closest thing to a flame that this topic has reached. Tread carefully with your words.

[metroid119]

well this is my last post for this topic but i gtta say is if you die a christian, the worse you can be is wrong. there's no point in dying an atheist, because when an atheist is wrong, he's fucked for eternity....by the devil

[killshot]

Pascal's wager blah, blah, blah,...

Seriously, can't you guys come up with anything else?

[Zairak]

I'd like to point out something here. ...because when an atheist is wrong, he's fucked for eternity....by the devil
Yeah. No. I don't know what Bible you are reading, but the one I have read is quite clear on this point. The Devil. Does not. Run Hell. Right in Revelations, it says that Satan and all of his followers will be cast down into the lake of fire after the final war is said and done. Not an exact quote, but I don't have a Bible handy. He does not 'fuck' you, he burns right alongside you. I mean, really, why in the world would God appoint Satan the warden of Hell? I am an athiest and even I understand this.

Sorry if this came across as flaming, but this is a point of some irritance for me. You should at least be versed in your own holy book.

[darkarcher]

This is correct. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Zairak]

And here I promised myself I wouldn't drop in here again. Ah well, guess I can't resist. This is probably going to look like I'm picking on metroid119, but...Well, I hate it when somebody seems to have the wrong idea about things. myth, legends or folktales. we all choose to beleive what we want
Sorry, but you should never *choose* to believe in something. You should come to your own personal understanding of whatever subject it is via careful reasoning and thought. For instance, I would never just choose to believe that I am actually immortal without any proof or thought put into the subject. Even if it is a religion that has a lot of faith oriented beliefs, you should still not just take it for granted.your also forgetting the fact that god already knows the future of everything and purpously had adam eat the fruit to give us free will to choose to beleive in god or not to.
Oh, this is a bit hairy. What you're talking about? That is simply the illusion of free will. I'll try and break this down as clearly as I can.

Say somebody, be it a diety or otherwise, knows everything that will ever occur. For this person to know that it would occur would mean that it will happen this way and that it will not happen another way. Because, if it happened another way, that person obviously doesn't know everything that will ever occur, right? So, assuming the validity of Christianity, God would then know whether or not you would choose to believe in God. Just because you don't know what you would end up picking doesn't mean that you have free will. It simply means you don't know what you will end up being, Christian or otherwise.

On a side note, I think that what I suppouse you would call fate is actually the way of things. Everything that happens would have happened anyway, regardless. This is not based on the idea of some greater power, however. I guess that's a discussion for another topic, though, so I'll cut it off right there.It's ok to question but ok to bash? some people need religion because of their emotional IQ cant handle the selfawareness of living without one.
I brought this one up out of curiosity. I have researched into this emotional IQ thing, but I can't quite understand it. Maybe you could help with this.

One other thing about the Pascal's Wager argument. By my way of thinking, this works both ways. I understand my reasoning may be flawed, as I obviously don't know whether or not normal physics is in effect in Hell, but as any idea would be flawed because of that, I stand by my reasoning. Since this thread seems to revolve around Christianity, I'll address their afterlife only.

First off, there's a few things you can derive from the Bible's description of what awaits you in Hell. From what I have read, the idea seems to be that you are thrown in a lake of fire to burn for eternity with Satan and non-Christians in general. Here's what I get from this:

1) You cannot die. At least not in the permanent, non-existance kind of way. You're stuck there.

2) You cannot go insane. I mean, really, you are there as punishment, essentially. What would be the point in torturing what would essentially be an entirely different person than the one that went to Hell?

3) You would remember your life. Again, why punish an entirely different person than the one that was sent to Hell?

4) Eternity is, well, unending. Unless God periodically turns up the heat, and even then, eventually you will at least be able to think, if not move around. Be it a year, a decade, or a billion years, it seems likely to happen, barring increasing pains.

For that matter, even if you never do overcome the pain and indeed do spend the rest of eternity in misery, so what? It's just sensations. A far better fate than being wiped from existence, in my opinion. So, to address the original point of this ranting, Pascal's Wager works both ways. Given that all I want from my life is to exist, why wouldn't I then be better off not believing in God and living my life however I see fit? If this thinking is somehow flawed, I certainly hope to be corrected. This is correct. Thank you for pointing that out.
No need for thanks, that's what discussion and debates are for, right? Refining your viewpoints? At least, that's what I always saw them as useful for.

[darkarcher]

Say somebody, be it a diety or otherwise, knows everything that will ever occur. For this person to know that it would occur would mean that it will happen this way and that it will not happen another way. Because, if it happened another way, that person obviously doesn't know everything that will ever occur, right?
Just for the purpose of education in the thread, there's also a belief that said deity would know every possible future that could result from every possible choice made by humans. Just throwing that out there, whether or not it's feasible I'll leave up to you to say.One other thing about the Pascal's Wager argument. By my way of thinking, this works both ways.
I would say by the very logic of Pascal's Wager that it wouldn't really work both ways. However, the logic of Pascal's Wager is sort of flawed in the first place; and, as pointed out before, it is admittedly a rather weak argument for any sort of Christian to utilize.

[metroid119]

i feel like its sunday school again!

[metroid119]

well i would like to say im all new to this religion thing and thanks for answering all the questions in my head

[Zairak]

No biggie. Life's a learning process, after all.Just for the purpose of education in the thread, there's also a belief that said deity would know every possible future that could result from every possible choice made by humans. Just throwing that out there, whether or not it's feasible I'll leave up to you to say.
That's an interesting point of view... And it certainly would work under the assumption of an all knowing being. Unfortunately, I don't have a real counter for this, as I wasn't aware of this before now.I would say by the very logic of Pascal's Wager that it wouldn't really work both ways. However, the logic of Pascal's Wager is sort of flawed in the first place; and, as pointed out before, it is admittedly a rather weak argument for any sort of Christian to utilize.
Fair enough, fair enough.

[EdBat]

Christianity is based on the best selling fantasy novel of all time.

[DarkWarrior]

I would appreciate it if you could actually add to a conversation and not make stupid comments like the ones above, thanks.

[Acks]

So basically, everyone is a fucking idiot because we ate a piece of fruit.
Also BatEd, The DaVinci Code outsold it.

[DarkWarrior]

Basically, I'm going to say that if you can't contribute to the topic in an intelligent way, I'm going to ban you.
Disagreeing with Christianity is one thing. Stupid statements like the one you and Ed made are something else entirely.

[magick]

No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.

[magick]

No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.

[KuroStarr]

Honestly...
I dunno.
So I go to Church just in case there might be a God.
And if there isn't...Well, at least it got me up on Sundays! D:

Besides, religion can be anything you want it to be I think. You choose what religion you want, or you could start your own.
And there is always some part in the bible-or another holy book for that matter- that somebody doesn't like more than the other.
I'm Mormon, and I'm constantly asked, "Why do you people have your own book?" or "Do you believe in God?" And, I'm annoyed greatly by this-Yes, I believe in the Bible and God[sometimes], but we have the 'Book of Mormons' to follow, too. I recently figured out that according to the Book of Mormon, I'm not supposed drink coffee or tea[something about being 'pure']- But I do anyways;
My point is- people usually pick out what parts of a bible [or another Holy Book] what they don't like or they do like, in order to fit their needs and morals. Its only human nature, I suppose, to make things fit your needs. Makes sense? Scientology, how about that? You hold on to the tin cans and then this guy asks you a bunch of questions, and if you pay enough money you get to join the master race. How's that for a religion?
Sounds like taxes to me. But the only difference is that you just get taxed more on the real world.

[klokwerk]

So, when Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden, if you go for all these fairy tales, that "evil" woman convinced the man to eat the apple, but the apple came from the Tree of Knowledge. And the punishment that was then handed down, the woman gets to bleed and the guy's got to go to work, is the result of a man desiring, because his woman suggested that it would be a good idea, that he get all the knowledge that was supposedly the property and domain of God. So, that right away sets up Christianity as an anti-intellectual religion. You never want to be that smart. If you're a woman, it's going to be running down your leg, and if you're a guy, you're going to be in the salt mines for the rest of your life. So, just be a dumb fuck and you'll all go to heaven. That's the subtext of Christianity.
-- Frank Zappa
So damn true.

[KawaitaSakebi]

Hmm, interesting.

First off, there's a few things you can derive from the Bible's description of what awaits you in Hell. From what I have read, the idea seems to be that you are thrown in a lake of fire to burn for eternity with Satan and non-Christians in general. Here's what I get from this:

1) You cannot die. At least not in the permanent, non-existance kind of way. You're stuck there.

2) You cannot go insane. I mean, really, you are there as punishment, essentially. What would be the point in torturing what would essentially be an entirely different person than the one that went to Hell?

3) You would remember your life. Again, why punish an entirely different person than the one that was sent to Hell?

4) Eternity is, well, unending. Unless God periodically turns up the heat, and even then, eventually you will at least be able to think, if not move around. Be it a year, a decade, or a billion years, it seems likely to happen, barring increasing pains.

For that matter, even if you never do overcome the pain and indeed do spend the rest of eternity in misery, so what? It's just sensations. A far better fate than being wiped from existence, in my opinion.

I'd like to add another point of view to this...
Another view of Hell (the one that I, personally, believe) is that fire is a metaphor for what people there would feel, and that the real pain comes from being separated from God. God doesn't damn people, people damn themselves and then have to face the consequences. Actually, someone who had separated themself from God would find his presence even more unbearable than any fire, so in this view, hell is God's greatest mercy. Being separated from God is terrible, but not as terrible as it might be.

Eh, I don't think I said that very well...is anyone even still watching this thread?