The Seven Deadly Sins

[Revenge]

A Christian concept which I think is totally irrelevant, the seven deadly sins are:

1.lust
2.gluttony
3.greed
4.sloth -wtf?
5.wrath
6.envy
7.pride-ftw?

I would very much like to hear your opinion on these "sins"

GO NOW.

[Tatterdemalion]

"You can't PROVE IT!!! How do you KNOW that they are sins, just because they were told to you by your imaginary god?! Oh, how foolish Christian people can be. Clearly these are lies meant to control the populace and to suppress reason and science. Richard Dawkins FTW!"

-RationalInquirer

Seriously though, first off they're not exactly "sins" in that, to my knowledge, they don't violate any scriptural law. It's more of a philosophical view of a healthy lifestyle versus an unhealthy lifestyle.

That is to say, these "seven deadly sins" as you call them are not significant so much because they are crimes against man, or even crimes against God, whether you believe in Him or not, so much as they are crimes against the self. As such, I'd say that while they are a very Christian idea, they can have relevance outside of the context of Christianity. They pertain to the overall notion of virtue, which is not a uniquely Christian idea.

In any case, my opinion? In my opinion they're all essentially forms of excess. That is to say, all of them are examples of something healthy and natural taken to a self-destructive extreme.

Yep, there's an opinion. Well, kind of an opinion.

[Revenge]

What I find funny is that these "sins" weren't in the bible...

^excellent point^

you get a cookie.

[Tatterdemalion]

What I find funny is that these "sins" weren't in the bible...

You do realize that you just ignored my post, right? That's the entire point. It's not an inconsistency, it's two different things that people mistakenly conflate.

^excellent point^

you get a cookie.

Don't encourage him.

[Fat1Fared]

But I want da cookie... :(

sorry mate because of my Greed I ate it

PS, my opinion on matter is pretty much said by Tatter, so I will leave it at that

Well apart from fact I am very one of them, except lust,

[Tatterdemalion]

sorry mate because of my Greed I ate it

Actually, I think that would be gluttony.

Now I am envious of you for taking the cookie, so I will take it out on you in a display of wrath...done in a very lustful way.

Damnit, why do all of your comments lead to off-topic silliness from me? This is serious discussion. Let's be serious.

[Fat1Fared]

Oh my you really do love me tatter, I chose greed because though it was food, I felt the take of taking something from someone else selfishly and without consideration was more greed

Ps, as for jokes, well I just do not take myself seriously unless I have to and this means I can make a good point, why'll doing silly comment and others find themselves pulled in. I am also good at disarming people with this, and by time realise the "British Rage", it is to late, I have them trapped at a Top Hat Tea Party

[XMrs_SkellingtonX]

The only Deadly Sin I disagree with is Sloth. =/ Being lazy is a sin? Wow..I guess I sinned everyday. xD

[RationalInquirer]

"You can't PROVE IT!!! How do you KNOW that they are sins, just because they were told to you by your imaginary god?! Oh, how foolish Christian people can be. Clearly these are lies meant to control the populace and to suppress reason and science. Richard Dawkins FTW!"

-RationalInquirer

I don't recall being that blunt. But it's an exaggeration, so shoot. Anyways, Why do you think that I believe that Chrisitian people are foolish? They're not. The religions they follow are certainly what they can manage strongly without though. Do I think people who followed Zeus back in Ancient Greece are stupid? No, they had very little choice in the matter. No one knew much about the world back then. As for religion being a device for controlling and dividing ethnic groups, I stand by this position. I also believe that religion has more uses than that. Such as consolation, parables, moral lessons, and an attempted explanation for the creation of the universe. Keep in mind that my views are not that narrow. They may use to be, but POV's change when exposed to more argument. By the way, what is this animosity you harbour towards Richard Dawkins? Do you actually believe that he is an attention seeking extortionist who's inflated ego caused him to supposedly go beyond his field in Science? One does not need a degree in fairyology before assessing the existence of fairies. Dawkins doesn't need to delve into the cherry picking, constant rationalizing, universe of theologians before questioning the existence of a God. Let alone one created by humans in his own image.

I would be a Christian if I was born into a Chrisitian family and undergone indoctrination as a helpless child who is not ready to decide for himself. I would not be foolish though. Merely not introduced to all possible ideas yet. I know what your going to say, that not everyone is indoctrinated into a religion when they're children (the most vulnerable part in a person's life). Tell that to the over 95% of people who end up following the faith of their parents. I for one, had a very weak religious background. No one tried to thoroughly indoctrinate me, and after weighing the evidence and opening up my mind, I concluded that religion, as useful it may be, just doesn't cut it.

A Christian concept which I think is totally irrelevant, the seven deadly sins are:

1.lust
2.gluttony
3.greed
4.sloth -wtf?
5.wrath
6.envy
7.pride-ftw?

I would very much like to hear your opinion on these "sins"

GO NOW.

I'M THERE.
Besides being characters in FMA, these 'sins' were created by the original founders of several old religions. The msot prominent one that featured sin in the most extravagant way was Christianity. Why were they created? Possibly to determine what in their view was "bad" or "good".As well as a method for corrupt leaders to ensure that the early followers of the Church will consider themselves "fallen beings" who need to avoid these actions. This makes them more easier to manipulate and control. Believe it or not, the common people back then were not allowed to interpret the Bible. They stated that only the priests and clergyman were able to 'correctly' interpret the Bible. This makes it difficult for the adherents to distinguish what things may be considered 'sins' and what were not.
Of course, the listed ones in the post are qualities that we should not possess. However, people would have eventually found out about these qualities in due time, through a moral code of conduct without invoking God in it. Religion was a necessity in the past. It's part of human nature. But I am quite sure that it is outdated and no longer needed for our continued growth. The same way that previous outdated 'pagan' religions no longer hold any influence now. Sins are of course the central idea in Christianity. Atonement this, atonement that. There is no such thing as a God decreed sin. There is only cause and effect. If you excessively indulge in these qualities, then you will most likely face the consequences. People learn through mistakes.
Also, if you read the Bible/Koran, then you will find that the God they mention, who supposedly created the Universe in all it's glory...exibits nearly all (if not all) of those unpleasant traits. It is hypocrisy on a deity's level.

[OverMind]

http://sloths.us/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sloth_in_a_box.jpg
Above: Sin incarnate.

[Revenge]

don't make fun of my favorite animal.

[Fat1Fared]

Overmind well if that is sin, I want him as a pet

[XMrs_SkellingtonX]

http://sloths.us/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sloth_in_a_box.jpg
Above: Sin incarnate.

Aw! I just want to snuggle it! >w< How could that be a sin?

[JesusRocks]

I'd just like to point out one thing. The seven deadly sins, so called are actually more of a pseudo-roman catholic/popular version/view of sin.

With regard to sin, these things certainly are excesses, and excess and an unhealthy lifestyle which breeds selfishness at its centre may well certainly be sinful, but all sin, while some being more heinous to us than others, has exactly the same effect on the status between humanity and God. All sin separates mankind from God, there are no more "deadly" sins than others.

The "seven deadly sins" view is almost the popular "non-christian" view of sin. Just like it is the popularly entertained notion that to become a Christian and be saved one must do a whole list of things:
- Pray
- Read the Bible
- Go to church every Sunday
- be baptised and/or confirmed
- shove christianity down people's throats (not really, but it seems to be what some people even call "talking reasonably and respectfully" about their faith)

and that these are the marks of a Christian, nevermind that one can do all of these things and still not be a Christian, and on the flip side of this, a person can do barely any of these things, and be a Christian. While in fact being a Christian is simply being in relationship with Jesus, all the rest is to help that person grow and be encouraged.

Also, the thing about commoners not being allowed to interpret the Bible does not go back to the very beginnings of christianity, but instead reaches back only to the advent of the dark/middle ages... Oh how christians lament those times of admitted corruption and deceit! seriously, it was a bad time.

[OverMind]

Aw! I just want to snuggle it! >w< How could that be a sin?

Are you kidding me? Take a look at those claws. And that face just screams out, "I want to gouge your eyes out".

On topic though, I'd definitely say that the sin I'm most guilty of is pride. And a little bit of gluttony here or there.

I'm way too ugly to be the victim of lust.

[Fat1Fared]

good point, Jesus

though I personally like to think that I am a success because I work hard for myself rather than someone giving me the will to do it

And infact the power thing, goes back to beginning of Roman Catholic empire, when a very very clever slave, managed to convert his master (a very dangerous general) to Christian and together they took over a whole empire, sense then it has been power of big boys

However before that it was slaves religion

[Spoofs3]

LOOK AT IT SMILE!

So yeah, I like the ideas of these sins... Wait... Nope not as sins but as my lifestyle

[aaaaaaaaah]

*cuddles with the sloth*

[XMrs_SkellingtonX]

Are you kidding me? Take a look at those claws. And that face just screams out, "I want to gouge your eyes out".


Haha. It's face is just so damn cute though. xD It'll claw my face off but whatever.

[Noslo]

In fact The Bible says nothing directly about these so called sins. These are just a set of rules set up by Catholic priests to make everyone else just as miserable as them. The real deadly sins should be The Ten Commandments. These actually have ethical value, rather than trying to keep the religious devotees from having any fun.

However, if one delved deep enough into The Bible, one would find that each one of the sins has a background. For example "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife" falls into the sin of lust. I am not a religious scholar so, I have very little more to add, unless I had my handy-dandy pocket Bible.

So all in all, it's those filthy, alter boy touching, Catholic priests are to blame.

[Tatterdemalion]

The real deadly sins should be The Ten Commandments. These actually have ethical value, rather than trying to keep the religious devotees from having any fun.


So are you suggesting that greed, envy, gluttony, anger and the like are good for you?

[Noslo]

Only in moderated amounts, just like alcohol. These sins can be seen as motivations in small amounts. A little envy can cause you to push yourself more in order to become better rather than being consumed by it, resulting in suffering consequences.

[Tatterdemalion]

Only in moderated amounts, just like alcohol. These sins can be seen as motivations in small amounts. A little envy can cause you to push yourself more in order to become better rather than being consumed by it, resulting in suffering consequences.

I'd be inclined to disagree. I don;t see any good that can cme from envy.

[Noslo]

Well let's say your best friend just accepted into an Ivy League school. You may become envious. While some may be psychotic and kill them, others may choose to improve themselves rather than mope around in self-pity.

[Tatterdemalion]

Well let's say your best friend just accepted into an Ivy League school. You may become envious. While some may be psychotic and kill them, others may choose to improve themselves rather than mope around in self-pity.

Yes, but let's say that my friend got accepted into an Ivy League school. That means that I feel bad because something good happened to him. Essentially, rather than feeling good for my friend, I resent him because he is better off than I am. How is that a good thing? That doesn't lead to self improvement. Envy isn't a sense of wanting something, and being willing to work hard to achieve your goals. Envy is a feeling of animosity towards someone else because that person has something you don't. Now, it's possible to be happy for your friend and still work hard to get into an Ivy League school. In fact, in some cases your friend's success may easily serve as a positive motivation, a friendly encouragement to get into such a school. On the other hand, if all you do is feel resent and bitterness towards your friend, then not only do you not have a very good motivator, but even if you do get into an Ivy League school you're still going to be out a friend.

It's one thing to want something. It's quite another to hate someone else because they have something and you don't.

[Noslo]

That's what I'm trying to say. Envy is only a sin when hatred is involved toward a fellow human being. Rather than giving into the sin itself, you look at the positive sides of it.This in turn make oneself a better person.

However, not everyone is a good person, and is easily susceptible to giving in. This leads you down the unrighteous path and eventually, if you believe, eternal suffering in hell. I'm not saying you have to agree, it's just how someone handles the situation.

[Tatterdemalion]

That's what I'm trying to say. Envy is only a sin when hatred is involved toward a fellow human being. Rather than giving into the sin itself, you look at the positive sides of it.This in turn make oneself a better person.

Anger/contempt/hatred/resentment is part of the definition of envy. Envy without resentment isn't envy.

[Noslo]

Then envy is wrath and there are only 6 Deadly Sins. Like I said before, it's how one handles the situation that makes it a sin or not.

[Tatterdemalion]

Then envy is wrath and there are only 6 Deadly Sins.

No, envy is anger combined with contempt, and directed at someone because they have something that you don't. So it's more specific than that.

Like I said before, it's how one handles the situation that makes it a sin or not.


Except with envy, which is bad any way you slice it.

[Noslo]

I guess there's just no reasoning with you. I still think it's the child touching priests' fault.

[OverMind]

So, which sin is Western society most guilty of? Any takers? (Open-ended question, room for debate here).

I'd say greed more than anything else.

[Tatterdemalion]

So, which sin is Western society most guilty of? Any takers? (Open-ended question, room for debate here).

I'd say greed more than anything else.

Gluttony. We tore down half the Amazon just so people could have hamburgers.

[Cocyta]

I would say that was the fault of the people who wanted to make money off of selling us burgers, and therefore it still counts as greed. ;)

[Tatterdemalion]

I would say that was the fault of the people who wanted to make money off of selling us burgers, and therefore it still counts as greed.

Yes, but the free market is driven by demand. The only reason a greedy person could possibly make a profit from something is if there is a substantial demand for it, or if they create one. Either way, the consumers are the ones who feed the greed of those doing the destroying. And likewise while those who control the companies are in the few, the number of consumers is in the hundreds of millions. So comparing something a handful of people are guilty of with something most of Western civilization is guilty of, the level of Western gluttony comes out as worse.

[Cocyta]

good point

[Fat1Fared]

Tatter is right there

However I would say sloth, because over hundred years ago, we did some very strong (and bad) acts which made us very powerful, now we have spent so long living of the royalties we are paying for it

PS

I would say that I am not Sloth in relative terms, but still part of system

[Cocyta]

My personal sin is totally sloth.

[OverMind]

Yes, but the free market is driven by demand. The only reason a greedy person could possibly make a profit from something is if there is a substantial demand for it, or if they create one. Either way, the consumers are the ones who feed the greed of those doing the destroying. And likewise while those who control the companies are in the few, the number of consumers is in the hundreds of millions. So comparing something a handful of people are guilty of with something most of Western civilization is guilty of, the level of Western gluttony comes out as worse.

I'm still inclined to think that greed is the underlying factor. From what I know, the Amazon rainforest's destruction was initiated by the Brazilian government and it had little to do with encouragement from the fast food industry.

Going to Wikipedia, I found this little tidbit:
In 1964, a Brazilian land law was passed whereby a provision would be provided which supported ownership of the land by the developer. If a person could demonstrate effective cultivation for a year and a day, then that person could claim a right to the land.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_in_Brazil

Thus, Brazil basically legalized industrialization (necessary to generate wealth) at the cost of the rainforest. Unfortunately, the soils of the Amazon are poor, so farming wasn't a very ineffective way to use the land. However, the cleared land was great for ranching and, since beef is profitable and not as labour-intensive as crop farming, that's what it's been used for. I'd say this all falls under greed since, clearly, something bad is happening to the rainforest but it continues because of the desire for money.

Of course, this operation would have all fallen apart if there was no demand (as you've mentioned, that's where gluttony creeps in). However, the demand we're talking about here is tricky to gauge. Was it society's desire to overeat that fuelled the demand (which would justify gluttony)? Or, was it society's demand to feed its people (given globalization, and the ever-increasing human population, there's a lot of mouths to feed here with a sufficient meal let alone an unnecessary one)? Or, is it a combination of both? Or, heck, a disproportionate one with some overeating, some not, and some not eating enough? In this way, I'm more inclined to think that gluttony is a secondary factor more than anything else.

[MrsSallyBakura]

These are just a set of rules set up by Catholic priests to make everyone else just as miserable as them.
So all in all, it's those filthy, alter boy touching, Catholic priests are to blame.

-______________-;;

Last time I got upset with a comment like this, the person was joking, but I don't think you're joking.

So let me just say that it sounds like you have an irrational bias against the Church. I have never met a priest who was a "filthy, alter boy touching" person, nor were they even miserable. I know there are priests who molest children and it's absolutely horrible, but it's not as wide-spread of a problem as anti-Catholics make it out to be. So I would appreciate it if you didn't make comments like this anymore, thank you.

JR is right about the origin of the 7 Deadly Sins. Let me say that, no, they aren't mentioned in the Bible verbatim (except for lust, actually, I remember that being somewhere), but as Tatter was saying, all of these things in excess can lead to sin.
For example, when King David was on the balcony looking out at his kingdom, he saw a woman (Bathsheeba) bathing on her rooftop. He saw her, thought she was beautiful, and lusted her. Now, he could have left it at that and carry on with his life, but instead he decided to commit adultery with her. Then when he found out that Uriah was coming home, he demanded that he be set to the front of the line while everyone else was sent to the back so that Uriah could be killed in war, so David indirectly committed murder too.

David broke 2 of the 10 commandments because he lusted after Bathsheeba.

As for what sin Western society is most guilty of, that's a tough one. It's hard to tell which sin gets the most popularity since the more I think about it, the more I see all of these sins present in society and it's hard to measure the amounts of each one. However I will say that lust is a huge one that people haven't really mentioned yet.

[AsteriskRocks]

A Christian concept which I think is totally irrelevant, the seven deadly sins are:

1.lust
2.gluttony
3.greed
4.sloth -wtf?
5.wrath
6.envy
7.pride-ftw?

I would very much like to hear your opinion on these "sins"

GO NOW.

I was about to answer....Sloth and Pride...but I feel it was already covered.

[Fat1Fared]

I think all sins are ok as long as you control them, it is them in excess that is wrong

Lust=Well aloud to want someone, sexually and personally think if consenting adults, nothing wrong with sex itself, however if you let your lust control you to point only thinking of sex and doing anything to get it there is problems

gluttony=well it is ok to have bit too much food sometimes like at X-mas, however if have too much will get fat and unfair on the starving as well

greed=If want something, that is only human, and if work hard for it, no reason not to have it, only if try to get it at expense of others or try to have everthing without letting others have anything there is problem

Sloth=well all feel lazy at times, just make sure ready to work hard when need to

Wrath=A world without anger is a world without defense, though you cannot attack everything in your path, if someone does you a wrong, you are allowed to feel angry

Envy=well everyone wishes they could have something of someone else, only human again, as long as you can take yourself as general person, envy can be good as makes you try to improve yourself

Pride=Well what is point of doing anything if not allowed to be happy at job well done, just remember there are always other who helped (well apart from in my case, I did everything myself honest <wink>)

The fat guide to life lol

[AsteriskRocks]

Pride=Well what is point of doing anything if not allowed to be happy at job well done, just remember there are always other who helped (well apart from in my case, I did everything myself honest <wink>)

The fat guide to life lol

Pride is also known as Hubris...we all know what Hubris is...(Refer to greek mythology).

[Fat1Fared]

Well sometimes people need to be shamed

[Revenge]

4.sloth
7.pride
I like the "sins" above. That makes only 5 "sins" for me.

[KuroStarr]

All sins are equal.
But the consequences are different.

[RationalInquirer]

The seven deadly sins in all their glory:

Shit
Piss
Fuck
Cunt
Cocksucker
Motherfucker
Tits

Just don't same them out loud during your confessional at church.

All sins are equal.
But the consequences are different.
Cause and Effect FTW.

[xellos88]

I always get to these topics late -___-
but if sloth is wrong then i dont want to be right!

[Ishikawa Oshro]

To answere your question the sins are in the bible but not in the way youd expect them to be. there just listed that way so people can see them clearer and understand them better.

In Proverbs 6:16-19 GOD lists 7 things that he detests. And these are what we refer to as the 7 deadly sins though in the bible they are said differently.

haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers”

and yes they are all sins. There is not one that is good. greed is the greed of money. Money does a man no good if thats all he is after. There are men who will lie , cheat, and scam to get their hands on money.

Lying is wrong because it wroughts bitterness on people. Try lying to a best friend about how hes your bestie and he will cop feelings when then will lead into other things like exchanging of words.

Envy is horrible. Being envous of someone else will make you think less of yourself or else go to the extremes of stalking or even trying to become exactly like that person. humans are unique and are meant to stay that way.

Sloth. Nothing good can come of a lazy man. He's no use to anyone not even himself. Look at half of america(sad to say it)

Lust. We all know when you see a hot woman and you picture her without any questions youve dug yourself a hole. Your body reacts faster than your mind. The next thing you know yous have had sex. She belongs to another man. While lusting youve just commited adultry which is another sin.

The 7 deadly sins are just that. they do nobody any good. you can joke about how you like this 1 or that one. But when it all comes down to it they wont profit you anything in the end.

[VegitarianZombie]

Firslty, I don't think that the "Seven Dealy sins" were ORIGANALY considered "The worst" sins, but were considered to be the root root casuses of all sins.

Concerning how the SDS came about:

Yes, there is no direct mention of the 7 dealy sins in the bible. If I remember corectly, some time before the suposed birth of christ there was a Jewish monk (or whatever they are called) who tried to write every temptation that plauged mankind. He narowed down the list to eight (what we now know as "Envy" was not one of them). Several hundred years later the pope at the time (I don't remember who, I will find out later) found a latin traslation of the list and thought it was the perfect thing to inspire the masses. But there was one problem. Eight was not a very inspiring number. So one (again not sure wich one) of the sins became part of pride and there was seven. Later, the same pope noticed that there was no sin for jealousy, but he wanted to keep the list at seven. So another sin became part of... Greed I think and again there was seven. The sins were later used to scare people into submission by preists. Whether it be to keep power among thier followers or to convert people from other relgions.

Concerning Glutony:

Most people do not know the range that Glutony has. Glutony is ANY FORM OF OVER CONSUPTION. This means being drunk, high etc. It also means taking to much "pride" in your food, or being really picky.

At first, Glutony does not seem so bad so why have it be one of the "Deadly Sins".
Well, most of the things I have found label Gluttony as a "Distraction from God".It was also considered a "Gateway sin". Meaning that it was the sin that you started with, and then evolves into others.

Here is a story I once found:

A man made a pact with the devil, and in order to repay his debt he had to commit one of the seven dealy sins. He dicides Glutony through drunkeness. He comes home completly smashed and goes into the first room he sees. Inside the room he finds a woman sleeping. Being uninhibeted by the alcohol, he forces himslef upon the woman. While he is doing that a man bursts into the room and tries to stop him. The man becomses angry, and kills the other man for tyring to stop him. The woman was his mother and the man was his father.

By SDS standards, he has commited Glutony, Lust, and Rath.

(Edit: More comming soon, I don't have time for everything but I wanted to post this ASAP)

[DANMAN]

Lust= this doesn't make sense. If every man and woman didn't make 'love', mankind would cease to exist.

gluttony= problem is, people can be defined as fat. But the fact is, we still accept those people

greed= If something truly belongs to you, and you worked for it, why give it away? This doesn't make sense.

Sloth= sometimes we feel lazy, other times we do not

Wrath= What is it you fight for something worth fighting for?

Envy= jealousy drives us to do things better

Pride= Without pride, how is one supposed to accomplish a great thing?

[MrsSallyBakura]

Lust= this doesn't make sense. If every man and woman didn't make 'love', mankind would cease to exist.

That's not what lust is. Lust is when you look at someone in a sexual manner merely to please yourself and not treat the other person as a human being.

gluttony= problem is, people can be defined as fat. But the fact is, we still accept those people

Not everyone who's fat got that way because they ate too much.

greed= If something truly belongs to you, and you worked for it, why give it away? This doesn't make sense.

You don't have to sell all your belongings or anything, but it's good to be selfless every once in a while.

Sloth= sometimes we feel lazy, other times we do not

Of course we do. Sloth is being overly-lazy and not working your share.

Wrath= What is it you fight for something worth fighting for?

That's not what wrath is. Wrath is more like over-exerting your anger and physically or verbally hurting someone because of it.

Envy= jealousy drives us to do things better

Envy and jealousy are synonymous but not the same. Envy is an extreme form of jealousy that makes you want to take a talent or belonging away from someone. For example, say that I have a crush on this guy, but he has a girlfriend. It would be envious of me to wish that I was like that girl and that girl was out in the streets or something.

Pride= Without pride, how is one supposed to accomplish a great thing?

Pride is simply putting yourself above everyone else and treating yourself as the most important person. If you are a Christian, you're supposed to believe that God is greater than any man or woman on Earth, including yourself. When you put yourself above God, you are treating yourself like God when you are not God. That is the pride the 7 Deadly Sins are talking about.

So it's not so much that none of them make sense. You're just over-simplifying them without looking at the bigger picture of what these sins really mean.

[DANMAN]

Oh. Words I cannot say, words I cannot say!!