Should Schooling be Compulsory?

[Tatterdemalion]

It seems that there are some who argue that it shouldn't. Now, I myself would be inclined to say something else, but this isn't about me.

Your thoughts?

[killshot]

I'm all for freedom of choice, but I think that compulsory schooling is necessary. There are a whole host of problems that would arise if a significant portion of people are without a basic education. I'm not entirely certain why someone would choose to not allow their child receive some sort of schooling. I'd like to hear an argument from someone who disagrees with compulsory education.

Since this sort of applies, I am not particularly fond of homeschooling either. Academics aren't the the only reason to send children to school. Children need to learn how to interact with others, especially others who are not going to treat them like their parents would at home. Learning to deal with people is a necessary skill that I think is stunted by homeschooling. Its best to learn some social skills early to avoid feeling awkward around others later in life.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I think schooling should be compulsory as well. If a kid complains about school, there's probably a reason for it that doesn't have to do purely with the academic portion, and even if it does have to do with that then there's always tutoring and possibly switching to a school to better suit the kid's academic needs. There are other options besides dropping out altogether.

Besides, the kids who usually complain about school being boring or whatever don't really appreciate the education they're receiving at that point. I think by the time they're allowed to drop out and get their GED, at least at that point they've been through enough schooling to have a well-formed opinion on their experience.

Since this sort of applies, I am not particularly fond of homeschooling either. Academics aren't the the only reason to send children to school. Children need to learn how to interact with others, especially others who are not going to treat them like their parents would at home. Learning to deal with people is a necessary skill that I think is stunted by homeschooling. Its best to learn some social skills early to avoid feeling awkward around others later in life.

I'm pretty half and half about this issue. I have met people who were homeschooled who turned out just fine and maybe even better than kids who went to school, and I met people whose minds have pretty much been warped because of it. It all depends on the kid him/herself and the way the parent approaches homeschooling, as well as how long they've been homeschooled. I know families who homeschool their kids all the way through high school, whereas I know other families who homeschool from... probably about 5th-9th grade, or something like that. I know people who homeschool their kids and the kid ends up being ahead in their grade level so they're ready for college by the time they're 17 or so, whereas there are others who are homeschooled who get incredibly behind the rest of the kids their age.

As for the socializing issue, I think as long as you put the child in other situations that require socializing, such as being part of a youth group at their church or being part of a "homeschooling group," then that's probably OK. Obviously it doesn't do the child any good if they just sit in their houses all day.

It all just depends, and because of that I don't recommend homeschooling. I say, let the child be a part of a regular or private school first, and if you believe as a parent that homeschooling would be good for him/her, then you can try that too.

My lengthy opinion on homeschooling... I do wonder how the school districts keep up with that, exactly.

[Tatterdemalion]

Just to besort of a Devil's Advocate here

I think schooling should be compulsory as well. If a kid complains about school, there's probably a reason for it that doesn't have to do purely with the academic portion, and even if it does have to do with that then there's always tutoring and possibly switching to a school to better suit the kid's academic needs. There are other options besides dropping out altogether.

What if it's the parent who doesn't want their child to go to school? What then?

[DarthWario]

Schooling of some kind should be compulsory, home schooling and schools included, so that when the kid grows up hes had a chance at a good life and whether that chance is wasted at least the choice was there.

Its best that children learn so that the world can progress.

[OverMind]

We can look at real world examples in developing countries where compulsory education is either not enforced or not required by law. Perhaps the biggest wall preventing these nations from actually "developing" (the term is condescending) is that future generations of the population don't have the necessary "know how" to do so. They just stick to their backwards way of doing things, just as their parents did and just as their children will do unless there's a change.

The best example is the lack of sex education in Africa fuelling their HIV pandemic. The fact that the South African government (among others) denies that HIV leads to AIDS further complicates the problem (i.e. Why funnel funds to educational causes that are "false"?). Consequently, the HIV rate is the highest on that continent. Compulsory education, however limited, is a step in the right direction for at least trying to circumvent this problem.

Now, I know that the Developed world and the Devloping world are sort of in different realms. But, if you were to take education away in the Developed world, there's no reason why we wouldn't regress. The whole point of education (especially with professional occupations) is to study a body of work built upon by previous generations. Once you take this sturdy foundation away, which has taken centuries to build, you have to start from scratch.

I sincerely believe that compulsory education should be mandatory simply to avert macroscopic human development. However, the specific components of a compulsory education is another debatable topic entirely.

[Fat1Fared]

Just to besort of a Devil's Advocate here



What if it's the parent who doesn't want their child to go to school? What then?

Well Tatter, I did a case about a child, who's father stopped him going to school because he was being bullied and though facts of case are not will needed here. It is interesting to know the Judge in the case basically said Councils (local Parliament Bodies) didn't have to enforce their powers here because the parent is seen as being unreasonable and not child, so take what you want from that!!!!

Anyway as for this, well I would like to hear your thoughts, as though we seem to disagree more than agree, I still respect your opinion.

I personally think that schools, need to be compulsory, as we only have to go back a 100 years in England to see what damage, having an uneducated society can do and the world has only got more complicated now, meaning it is even more important, than ever.

Also there are other reasons to schools, other than formal education, there are 3 official ones and 2 unoffical ones:

Official:
-Education of knowledge
-Social Education
-Education of rules (IE learning to follow them)

Unofficial:
-socialization/hidden education (like social education, however it is done between kids in there free time without adult care)
-Learning to obey state (lol)

All of these are important and though some could be done better and others are done too much, the question here is are they needed, (not are they done to a good standard) and I think yes, aspacially the socialization area. Though Sally fairly pointed out people, she knew who where well home schooled, these poeple made choice to be home schooled, and in truth if poeple were not forced to go to school, many wouldn't bother going to formal education (should see how hard it is, with law) and even less would bother home schooling. This is because many parents wouldn't be able to give the needed level, of social and educational education, needed to replace a schools and that is if they would even bother trying too, as many wouldn't care enough.

[Kanariya674]

Yeah, it should be compulsory. I think some sort of education is necessary, for such reasons as OverMind stated. I'm also not totally for homeschooling; I mean, it's better than nothing, but it definitely depends where you live if you need to be homeschooled. I'd send my kid to a public school, but given the environment, it may be safer for them to be at home.

I prefer public schooling because as mentioned before, it allows the children to build interaction. They'll grow social skills that they'll need in the future.

Besides, here in the United States anyway, a lot of times success is dependent on your schooling. I know people who are happy without having a college education, and that's all good, but a lot of jobs as you all know require schooling beyond the high school level.

[Eia]

It should be compuslory, whether homeschooled or in an official school building.

Schooling not only imparts academic knowledge, but social skills (already mentioned) and a culture. Yes, that's right, a culture. Want to know how the U.S. has successfully assimilated so many different types of people into one, mainstream concious? Education. Something everyone shares in common. A common langauge (debatable, lol), a common background knowledge of history and political structure, and in all, a common experience which everyone can relate to.

Another point is that education has one gigantic practical advantage that most people (here) do not think about: Children are in a safe, secure area with people to watch over them for a certain number of hours each day. This allows care takers, who would not otherwise have the time, to go out and achieve a career. This extra work force adds loads to any country's GDP.

Another practical aspect is that education also keeps children out of reach from societal forces that would take advantage of them (I.E: Gangs) if they were left to their own devices each day. This USED to not be a problem in our grandparents' era because there were no child labor laws (sad, but true) and as soon as children were at the age where they commonly enter kindergarten now, they would be either helping out on the farm or starting work.

Anyway, I'm all for compulsory education. However, the length of time that eduation should last, what it should include and how it should be implemented are entirely different debates.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

people need an education,
but the thing with public schools is, the textbooks sometimes have inacurate information.
Private Christian schools are worse because of Bias and discrimination, (I know because it happened to me)
Home Schooling is nice but expensive.
of the three I personally choose public school even with the mis information.

[Fat1Fared]

Gcar, I would agree with the RC thing, I two went to one, and though they are not as bad as some think (well mine wasn't,) some of their personal views do fall into education

as for misinformation, well that is sadly part of history, when learn anything, there will always be lies, mis-understandings and so on...etc which cause society to believe things which are not true, that is not the Schools fault, that is societies own mistake

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

Fatty, History textboks are one thing, but Math textbooks are another.
teaching incorrect methods to solve problems.

[Fat1Fared]

OK, well if you are being given bad Maths books, (something Man-Made, with only one answer,) then yes, that is a worry, I mean that is sort of thing you think you will see in Simpson's, but not in real world

please any maths geneis, don't tell me how wrong that statement was because I am very bad at maths

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

the American Math text books are written by Several authors, some have a different way to solve equations then is shown. and some ways are WRONG all together.
meaning you will never get the right answer because the problem solving method wasn't taught correctly.

[Fat1Fared]

well all I can say to that is, "That is very scary and I hope it is not like that here"

However I am not good enough at Maths to know

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

well all I can say to that is, "That is very scary and I hope it is not like that here"

However I am not good enough at Maths to know

I've had several GOOD math teachers, bitch and moan about the quality of the textbooks here. That's why some of my better math teachers never taught from book, because it wasn't right.

[killshot]

I've had several GOOD math teachers, bitch and moan about the quality of the textbooks here. That's why some of my better math teachers never taught from book, because it wasn't right.

I find that the best math teachers only use a text book for example problems.

[Fat1Fared]

that is true, the best teachers are those that teach us, and only use the Books as support,

however now we are going off point,

[Omega]

I think it should be necessary up to a certain age - say, 8th or 9th grade, where you've already learned all the basic skills you need to survive in the world - but beyond that should be entirely optional.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

I think it should be necessary up to a certain age - say, 8th or 9th grade, where you've already learned all the basic skills you need to survive in the world - but beyond that should be entirely optional.

My GrandFather only had an 8th grade education, because he had to go to work to support his family, after my great-grandfather died, and my grandfather couldn't even read a newspaper, because his 8th grade education didn't give him the skills to comprehend what he was reading.

[Omega]

Your grandfather had a really bizzare education if he couldn't read a newspaper by 8th grade.

[Spoofs3]

Give them an education, At least up til like age 16.
If they want to complete second level til 18, fine, if not fine
If they want to go to third, FIne, If not fine.
But it has to be compulsorily at least up until 16.
I am terribly sorry for being greedy here, But I am actually very hard on people who leech off the state. If they don't do something for the state, I do not like them, Or never will, in fact, If they don't help it someway, My ideas to them are very harsh.
In this day and age, Education is needed to actually help the state, Why? because no one without any skills will be employed, So get some skills, Enjoy, wheter it be school, or a trade, Just don't not go to any sort of school
DEVMAN AWAY

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

Your grandfather had a really bizzare education if he couldn't read a newspaper by 8th grade.

he also went to school in a different time when reading wasn't required, like it is today.

[RationalInquirer]

Should Schooling be Compulsory?

Yes, yes it should. Unless we want our future generations to be run by Ms. Teen South Carolinas. Who can't take care of each other, formulate a complete sentence, let alone run something complicated like an economy. I could elaborate further but take a look at our education system today (North America in particular). It is appalling. There is an increasing number of drop outs across North America. Students are knowing less about history, mathematics, english, and sciences. This part is also worrying. Check this link:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060810-evolution.html
Wow, were on the bottom of the chart, but hey, were still ahead of Turkey!
USA! USA! USA!

[OverMind]

But I am actually very hard on people who leech off the state. If they don't do something for the state, I do not like them, Or never will, in fact, If they don't help it someway, My ideas to them are very harsh.
In this day and age, Education is needed to actually help the state, Why? because no one without any skills will be employed, So get some skills, Enjoy, wheter it be school, or a trade, Just don't not go to any sort of school
DEVMAN AWAY

Looks like you've taken a page out of my book (http://forum.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/group.php?groupid=37).

Who can't take care of each other, [...], let alone run something complicated like an economy

We can barely run an economy as it is now, and we've got the best and brightest minds trying to correct the problem (probably).

Now, what many of you are "proposing" has already been implemented (in Canada anyway). I believe here, the mandatory level of education required before anyone can drop out is Grade 10 (Age 16). I wouldn't be surprised if something similar was found in the US or Europe (The third world doesn't apply since they view education, food, and accountable governments as delicacies. So, while we're trying to rationalize less education, they're dictators are trying to decide if some of the state's funds would be better spent on schooling rather than that fabulous new jacuzzi).

The teens that do follow through with it probably see it as an opportunity to "get on with their lives" (only to come back after 2 years, realizing that there's a glass ceiling on opportunities when you don't have a diploma).

The government probably sees it as a way to save money, or invest these additional resources into people who actually want to learn.

Does anyone have an extreme viewpoint that is anti-education altogether (unlikely, if you can read this sentence) or mandatory high school completion with no drop outs allowed (unlikely, I can't think of a witty remark here though)? If not, this topic is dead and I'll see you guys at its funeral next week.

[killshot]

I had a thought that hasn't been brought up in this topic yet. What does everyone think about compulsory education for mentally handicapped children? I went to a high school where the special education students had to take the same classes that everyone else took. Not only could they not complete the work that was required of them, they also took up most of the teacher's time which should have been spent on lecture. Even though they had to take classes they couldn't do well in, the teachers were required to pass them. It just seems to me that it is unfair to everyone involved for these students to take regular classes.

So do you think mentally handicapped students should be required to go to school, or would a change in the education system be more appropriate?

[OverMind]

I had a thought that hasn't been brought up in this topic yet. What does everyone think about compulsory education for mentally handicapped children? I went to a high school where the special education students had to take the same classes that everyone else took. Not only could they not complete the work that was required of them, they also took up most of the teacher's time which should have been spent on lecture. Even though they had to take classes they couldn't do well in, the teachers were required to pass them. It just seems to me that it is unfair to everyone involved for these students to take regular classes.

So do you think mentally handicapped students should be required to go to school, or would a change in the education system be more appropriate?

Dr. Killshot has revived this thread.

Here in Canada, the mentally handicapped have access to education but, at the post-secondary level anyway, their courses are more suited for them (i.e. those that focus on life-building skills). Of course, there are exceptions (i.e. I remember taking an art course during high school where a fellow classmate was mentally handicapped. However, this didn't impede her artistic ability and, in fact, she probably had more interest in the class than anyone else there). I think the philosophy is to encourage every citizen to be a contributing member of society, regardless of intellectual aptitude.

But, if you're referring more to the elementary level, I'm clueless on it so I can't comment.

[Sekaru]

we go to school to learn we learn to get a job we get a job to get money we get money to be free.

yet without all of this we're already free.. funny goverment funny.


education is important but what they teach us is not. they teach us routine unhealthy balance and that one person is always smarter then the other. that in itself is flawed. you can be damn sure no kid of mine will be going to school... I'll home school everysingle one of them.

[OverMind]

we go to school to learn we learn to get a job we get a job to get money we get money to be free.

yet without all of this we're already free.. funny goverment funny.


education is important but what they teach us is not. they teach us routine unhealthy balance and that one person is always smarter then the other. that in itself is flawed. you can be damn sure no kid of mine will be going to school... I'll home school everysingle one of them.

You'll homeschool them solely because you disagree with the philosophy of systemic education... and then send them to college?

[HolyShadow]

we go to school to learn we learn to get a job we get a job to get money we get money to be free.

yet without all of this we're already free.. funny goverment funny.


education is important but what they teach us is not. they teach us routine unhealthy balance and that one person is always smarter then the other. that in itself is flawed. you can be damn sure no kid of mine will be going to school... I'll home school everysingle one of them.
It's not about intelligence. It's about how hard you work.

In trig, I slept about 99% of the course, and did homework ten minutes before the class started. I completed the course with a 92%.

The best person completed it with a 94%. I was second because I never once tried. I didn't particularly care for getting first, though I did get the highest score on the final in the smallest amount of time.

I kept a 110% for the first 7 weeks of the course before it got a little troublesome.

[Sekaru]

no I wont send them to college. they will simply exist as all people should of course the choice is theirs if they wish to embrace society but I will present them with another option. free of money and lies. I'll simply present them the truth of our world and remind them our people have lived off the lands for eaons why should everything change cause someone said having a lot of these pieces of paper makes you free.

[Sekaru]

and holy shadow I wasnt reffering to your classmate but to your teachers. if they're teaching you and you accept it means you acknowledge they are smarter then you. its not intelligence or hard work its regurgitation. they tell you not to copy other kids yet they teach you to copy exactly what they tell you word for word. imo thats fucked up

[Fat1Fared]

I had a thought that hasn't been brought up in this topic yet. What does everyone think about compulsory education for mentally handicapped children? I went to a high school where the special education students had to take the same classes that everyone else took. Not only could they not complete the work that was required of them, they also took up most of the teacher's time which should have been spent on lecture. Even though they had to take classes they couldn't do well in, the teachers were required to pass them. It just seems to me that it is unfair to everyone involved for these students to take regular classes.

So do you think mentally handicapped students should be required to go to school, or would a change in the education system be more appropriate?

Kill, the reason most Handicapped kids go to school is for equal rights and for other things in school experience, however it can also be frustrating that it seems they get lots of help, holding you back, so it is a hard balance, inwhich I think England has found the answer, they are allowed in school, but are put in lower classes and most will get their own helper teacher, which will help them with their work, freeing the teacher for rest of class

However this is unlikely to happen many countries, as it costs britain billions, to make them their own learning areas, get extra staff needed...etc and as I say Money talks, Shit walks <facepalm>

(though there are also special schools, if parents choose them

PS Holy, was the needless ego-stroke needed here, aspecially as it proved your point wrong, and though I know your point was sarcastic to you, infact it is true to most poeple, unless you are naturally brilliant (which probably means you will be crap in schools anyway) you have to work hard to get anything

[HolyShadow]

and holy shadow I wasnt reffering to your classmate but to your teachers. if they're teaching you and you accept it means you acknowledge they are smarter then you. its not intelligence or hard work its regurgitation. they tell you not to copy other kids yet they teach you to copy exactly what they tell you word for word. imo thats fucked up
Of course they're smarter than me. Obviously, they know the material that they're teaching and I don't. Of course, that depends on the teacher.

How bout you go ahead and teach me advanced physics shit, or teach me how to program? Once I learn, of course, I have the ability to be better at it than you. In which case, you should learn from me.

The reason they tell you not to copy off of anyone is fairly simple...

They're teaching you how to use the material in a way that can help you in real situations. However, if you copy an answer without understanding how to get to it, you won't know how to find it in a real situation.

For example, a crime scene investigator. If they don't know how to use their tools to catch a criminal, then a murderer could get away. Simply relying on others your whole life is unwise.

Besides, if you home school your children, you'll be telling them that you're their equal. Okay... yeah, that's smart. Not. Children aren't mentally mature. Even many college students aren't mentally mature. It takes time for people to understand exactly how things work, and telling an 8 year old that they're just as smart as you is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. You shouldn't be teaching them then, because you'd obviously be too dumb to actually understand the material you'd be teaching them.

If you let someone who's inferior to you think that they're your equal, then they'll speak down to others. Isolating them from society is also unwise, because it has a good chance of destroying them in social situations.

Instead of calling the system crap, try to make it better. If you think you're good enough to teach your children, do it professionally. Go to school, get a degree, and apply for a teaching position. You might be of some use, and besides that, may understand exactly what teachers have to go through.

[Fat1Fared]

wow, Holy I think you just said something really wise,

I am not sure if I am scared or impressed (or BOTH)

Sekura, mate money is not evil, it is way it is used that can be evil, like every tool man has made, though in many cases it is used for wrong reasons, not in all cases

And though you may think now getting rid of money and making structureless society where all free and equal is great now, but sadly you are dealing with Humans and if one thing about us, it is that we will use any edge we have, and so you will find in your great new world, it is infact not freedom for all, but freedom for strong

That is why have money, it is to add reason to the structure which use to try and protect ourselves from ourselves

And so if you think home schooling your kids and rejecting society will help them, it won't, as if:

1=You start revolution, we get rid of money..., were F((KED

2=If not, all do is stop kids chances at lest using that society to their own advantage

And though this system is not prefect (infact I hate a lot of it) just moaning about it or rejecting in an isolated way will do nothing, you need to play their game, to change world:

Many poeple ask me why I want to be a MP, it is simple, I want to make chances in world, but realised long ago, freedom fighters, terrorists, pressure groups....etc none of these change world, as they haven't got power, so how do you change world, simple become something with power