UN Resolution Defending Islam from All Criticism

[RationalInquirer]

Just when you start wondering whether the United Nations can become anymore inept in dealing with global issues, they pull this outrageous idea on us. The UN have proposed a Resolution BINDING all countries which hold membership in the UN (US, Canada, UK, etc...) from openly criticising religion-with particular emphasis on Islam. Criticising religion would be a crime. Any form of media caught that is deemed defamatory against Islam or any other religion could cost up to years in prison or a considerable fine.

This resolution, if it passes, would infringe on everyone's freedom of speech and vocal opinion. Not to mention tarnishing the Constitutional rights for many nations. As the witty bumper sticker puts it "Blasphemy Is A Victimless Crime" Is it also coincidence that it is mainly the Islamic states that push for this resolution? I think not. They know such a violent, hate mongering religion will require state protection eventually. It sickens me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-qdC5zYd4
http://www.slate.com/id/2212662


What are your thoughts on this?

[Tatterdemalion]

Have you actually read the resolution? Because the document does not, with emphasis on the word not, seek to outlaw criticism of religions and Islam, as you so suggest.

And you should perhaps learn yourself something too, before you go about calling Islam a "violent, hate mongering religion." Good idea, perhaps?

[JesusRocks]

I'm going to go look for the first hand info on this, before drawing the same conclusion as RationalInquirer...

I suspect that this may be a misunderstanding, such as when the British tabloids tried to convince people that the Lisbon Treaty would set up a standardised, codified constitution for all the High Contracting Parties to the European Union (which it will not)... or such as when the Republic of Ireland's media presented the Lisbon Treaty as trying to make them lose a representative

(yes, RoI would lose a representative, along with all the other larger Member States, but that process would take another 5 years under the Lisbon Treaty - the EU were going to do this anyway within a few months - voting "yes" on the Treaty would have actually meant that the RoI would get to keep their representative for longer than voting "no" - thankfully this awesome Treaty is likely to be brought back out with amendments)

Therefore, I shall go look at the actual resolution...

[Tatterdemalion]

For anyone who wants to see the document

http://www.undemocracy.com/A-RES-62-154.pdf

Although it doesn't help that the UN's website is called "un-democracy."

[JesusRocks]

For anyone who wants to see the document

http://www.undemocracy.com/A-RES-62-154.pdf

Although it doesn't help that the UN's website is called "un-democracy."

aw darn you beat me to it... I just found it as well lol...

lol United Nations Democracy = un-democracy XD

*reads*

__________________________________________________ ___________

*finishes reading*
hmm only 4 pages... I thought it would be longer *shrugs*

Well it certainly doesn't seem as bad as many people make it out to be. The basic aims here appear to be:
- emphasising that religious discrimination breaches already-existing international human rights obligations
- recognising the need to put more measures in place to combat intolerance, especially against Islam - understandable since this is the religion that has had most of the bad press in recent times...

It certainly does not "make blasphemy illegal" or "defend Islam from all criticism" or even bind the member states of the UN to do, well... anything at all.
Most of it is simply asking member states to be more mindful of intolerance based on someone's faith...

The phrase "toothless tiger" springs to mind here...

[JesusRocks]

Criticising religion would be a crime.

Human Rights law =/= criminal law... ever.

Human Rights law imposes obligations on the State to protect the Human Rights of the individual. There are no obligations placed on individuals or on private bodies.
And besides, international law is only enforceable in domestic law if it is properly incorporated, or if it has direct effect, which UN resolutions do not.

Any form of media caught that is deemed defamatory against Islam or any other religion could cost up to years in prison or a considerable fine.

Again, incorrect for the reasons mentioned above.

This resolution, if it passes, would infringe on everyone's freedom of speech and vocal opinion. Not to mention tarnishing the Constitutional rights for many nations.

Again, only if incorporated, and from the reading of the actual document, it will not have that effect at all. I can only speak for the UK here, but this will have no effect on UK law unless an Act of Parliament is passed incorporating it. Which is unlikely since we incorporated the European Convention on Human Rights, rather than the Universal Declaration of Human Rights - similar, but the ECHR is slightly different and stems from the UDHR, but still shows it does not have direct effect on domestic law.

Also I believe the phrase is "freedom of expression" not "speech"... "freedom of speech" is a curiously American term...

Also it would not tarnish the UK's constitutional law in any way, shape or form. The rights we have are under the ECHR as incorporated by the Human Rights Act 1998, and they are not sovereign rights, like a lot of countries with codified constitutions have...

Is it also coincidence that it is mainly the Islamic states that push for this resolution? I think not.

Well, of course Islamic states are obviously going to support anything that is friendly to Islam, not a big surprise there really...

They know such a violent, hate mongering religion will require state protection eventually. It sickens me.

This just makes your Username completely ironic.

[Fat1Fared]

JesusRocks lets not forget, that this is actually just forming of something already set in the both the European and the USA Humans rights convention treaties, though that is lawyers speak and will bor everyone but me

Though believe Rational is really from USA, so will have differebt effect on her law (PS think already in their Constitution anyway)

PS I actually do hate acts like this though, not because of the intention, but becauase they do more harm than good, they make the feeling shown here in this post, among poeple and Media groups will print only half of what it is about in order to fuel this feeling

PS Islam is only one of many religions you are refering too, however many seem to think they are all same, kind of like thinking all Christians are Catholics

[JesusRocks]

JesusRocks lets not forget, that this is actually just forming of something already set in the both the European and the USA Humans rights convention treaties, though that is lawyers speak and will bor everyone but me

I believe I mentioned that it reiterates already-existing treaty obligations.

It will have a different effect on the USA, but I still don't think that Resolutions have direct effect... if they did for the US, then they would for the other Member States of the UN.

PS Islam is only one of many religions you are refering too, however many seem to think they are all same, kind of like thinking all Christians are Catholics

The Resolution, while being general in its terms, does actually mention Islam specifically in a general sense, though not for the reasons RationalInquirer says.

But regardless, tbh in general anyone would support something that is friendly to their own interests. Although it wouldn't always be the case of course.

[Fat1Fared]

JR, was just having joke with first one

As for 2nd, well not read it all yet, so cannot say for this, but that comment was more about the way poeple seem to have this generalist, lets put everyone under one brush, view

[RationalInquirer]

Have you actually read the resolution? Because the document does not, with emphasis on the word not, seek to outlaw criticism of religions and Islam, as you so suggest.

And you should perhaps learn yourself something too, before you go about calling Islam a "violent, hate mongering religion." Good idea, perhaps?

Let me get this straight, you think that Islam IS NOT a violent, hate mongering religion? Violence and 'honor' killing is justified under appalling acts like Sharia Law. Maybe you should read the Quran before you make such a statement. Good idea, perhaps? Especially, the many parts in which Muhammad explicitly demanded that all the infidels who do not submit to Islam be executed, woman be shackled to man, and general all out chaos.

Remember the Danish cartoons? A small local newspaper incites hatred from people who demand respect and special priviledges, while simultaneosuly burning down churches and going on violent demonstrations. Maybe you think it is only the extremists that cause all this harm? Moderate Muslims have just not read enough of the Quran to know otherwise what their holy book is actually advocating. The civil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? That all Jews/Zionists must be crushed? People claim such violent actions are only economically and politically driven. That it is community interconflict. It is actually religious cleansing. For example, the Sunnis and Shias have been at each others throats for centuries. Islam serves as a strong basis for much of what happens over there.

You don't live in the Middle East (neither do I) maybe the situation there may seem somewhat indifferent to you. Look up on the blatant mysogony and killing of people of other religions in countries in turmoil such as Northern Africa, Pakistan, and Indonesia that are heavily influenced by Islam. Areas in which Islam is predominant has incidents in which hydrochloric acid is thrown into a woman's face on a daily basis for disobeying her husband. Salman Rushdie is still in hiding for fear of his life because of the simple act of expressing free speech by writing the Satanic Verses.

Islam has effectively made enemies with all the religions of the world since it's inception. Islam deserves as much respect as politics or any other religion. If it is responsible for crazy shit, then speak out against it. One has to try REALLY hard to interpret the Quran to be a peaceful, love advocating book. Unlike the Bible, it doesn't have a counterpart similiar to the New Testament. To put it bluntly, it's plain assbackwards fuck.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the people of the Middle East. It's their detrimental beliefs that influence them that are out of whack. The world would be better off without Islam or any of it's prejudices.

I have to admit that the UN Resolution wasn't as strict as my first post. However, the Resolution's main, underlying message, is that the groups that lobby in support of Islam are gaining in strength. The movement to sequester and silence people criticising Islam is strongly advocated in the British Isles and their neighboring countries. Take for example the Netherlands, which recently introduced a bill to protect Islam. Luckily, it was rejected as a result of local pressure.

Fat1Fared: I actually live in Canada :) Moved out of the US 2 years ago after realizing things were heading in the wrong direction.

[OverMind]

Let me get this straight, you think that Islam IS NOT a violent, hate mongering religion?

You can nitpick and choose examples from any religion and validate it as violent and hate mongering. I'm going to stick with the time-old argument by stating that the unjust actions of a few do not represent the whole.

Violence and 'honor' killing is justified under appalling acts like Sharia Law. Maybe you should read the Quran before you make such a statement. Good idea, perhaps?

Are you claiming to have read the Qu'ran in its entirety? Or, really, did you just read a few, certain passages in a biased book or website?

Further, I'd like you to find any mention of Sharia Law in the Qu'ran.

Especially, the many parts in which Muhammad explicitly demanded that all the infidels who do not submit to Islam be executed, woman be shackled to man, and general all out chaos.

Right ... he demanded infidels be executed, but at the same time preached that the Jews and the Christians are 'people of the book', following the same God, and as such should never be forced to convert (Just ask for a passage validation of this, I'd be glad to give you one).

The only event I know of in which he ordered people to be executed were the Meccans and this was during a time when he was at war with them.

Remember the Danish cartoons? A small local newspaper incites hatred from people who demand respect and special priviledges, while simultaneosuly burning down churches and going on violent demonstrations.

OH HEY, LET'S BLAME THE ENTIRE RELIGION FOR A FEW UNRULY YOUTHS WHO ENGAGED IN VANDALISM.

Maybe you think it is only the extremists that cause all this harm? Moderate Muslims have just not read enough of the Quran to know otherwise what their holy book is actually advocating.

Please enlighten me on what their holy book is advocating. If possible, please break down your response by stating the general message of each sura. Merely taking a few quotes here or there won't really cut it for me.

The civil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

This is laughable. Yes, the general unrest in those regions is all because of Islam. It's not as if there's some sort of foreign, third-party there acting as a catalyst.

That all Jews/Zionists must be crushed?

These are cultural attitudes held by many Islamic countries, but it does not mean Islam justifies anti-semitism. Case in point: Turkey and Egypt recognize Israel, and such attitudes aren't held there like in, say, Saudi Arabia or Iran.

People claim such violent actions are only economically and politically driven. That it is community interconflict. It is actually religious cleansing. For example, the Sunnis and Shias have been at each others throats for centuries. Islam serves as a strong basis for much of what happens over there.

Erm, okay? Different sects of any religion vie for supremacy. What makes Islam so special in this regard?

You don't live in the Middle East (neither do I) maybe the situation there may seem somewhat indifferent to you. Look up on the blatant mysogony and killing of people of other religions in countries in turmoil such as Northern Africa, Pakistan, and Indonesia that are heavily influenced by Islam.

Laughable. Yes, Pakistan is mysogonistic, even though it was the first Muslim country to have a female head of state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto).

Areas in which Islam is predominant has incidents in which hydrochloric acid is thrown into a woman's face on a daily basis for disobeying her husband.

Oh right, one extreme case (which you probably read about in the newspaper one day) means that every Muslim couple have an abusive relationship. That makes so much sense.

Islam has effectively made enemies with all the religions of the world since it's inception. Islam deserves as much respect as politics or any other religion. If it is responsible for crazy shit, then speak out against it. One has to try REALLY hard to interpret the Quran to be a peaceful, love advocating book. Unlike the Bible, it doesn't have a counterpart similiar to the New Testament. To put it bluntly, it's plain assbackwards fuck.

I'm really getting the impression that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Aerodynamic]

Are you aware how backwards Muslim culture is in the Middle East?

Oh, and a memo to the United Nations:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

-Article 19, Universal Declaration of Human Rights

[Orga777]

Let me get this straight, you think that Islam IS NOT a violent, hate mongering religion? Violence and 'honor' killing is justified under appalling acts like Sharia Law. Maybe you should read the Quran before you make such a statement. Good idea, perhaps? Especially, the many parts in which Muhammad explicitly demanded that all the infidels who do not submit to Islam be executed, woman be shackled to man, and general all out chaos.

The terrorists in the Middle East have defamed the religion like the Inqusition and Crusades defamed Christianity. Sorry, the religion itself is actually peaceful, it is the radicals you have to look out for. Just like you have to do for ALL religions (like Chrisitanity for instance...)

Remember the Danish cartoons? A small local newspaper incites hatred from people who demand respect and special priviledges, while simultaneosuly burning down churches and going on violent demonstrations.

I will agree on this instance. But that is mostly because I am sick and tired of the PC world we live in. Something always hurts somebody's feelings. Grow a skin. I don't care what it is, or who is being targeted... time to go on and get over it. Some limitations are obviously needed, but damn, Loony Tunes aren't even on TV anymore, and that is going too far. (especially since most crap kids watch today are mind-numbingly bad.)

Maybe you think it is only the extremists that cause all this harm?

....Yes?

Moderate Muslims have just not read enough of the Quran to know otherwise what their holy book is actually advocating. The civil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? That all Jews/Zionists must be crushed? People claim such violent actions are only economically and politically driven. That it is community interconflict. It is actually religious cleansing. For example, the Sunnis and Shias have been at each others throats for centuries. Islam serves as a strong basis for much of what happens over there.

Yes... but is more politically driven and racially driven than religiously driven. The radicals are perverting the religion and using that perversion to their advantage to draw people to their cause.

Islam has effectively made enemies with all the religions of the world since it's inception. Islam deserves as much respect as politics or any other religion. If it is responsible for crazy shit, then speak out against it. One has to try REALLY hard to interpret the Quran to be a peaceful, love advocating book. Unlike the Bible, it doesn't have a counterpart similiar to the New Testament. To put it bluntly, it's plain assbackwards fuck.

Dude, Glenn Beck, no fan of Liberals, the UN, and who is very much anti-terrorism himself has read the Quran and sees Islam as an inherently peaceful religion and that the radicals have perverted the religion and that true Muslims should speak out against them.

I have to admit that the UN Resolution wasn't as strict as my first post. However, the Resolution's main, underlying message, is that the groups that lobby in support of Islam are gaining in strength. The movement to sequester and silence people criticising Islam is strongly advocated in the British Isles and their neighboring countries. Take for example the Netherlands, which recently introduced a bill to protect Islam. Luckily, it was rejected as a result of local pressure.

I have to somewhat agree here... Europe for instance are having severe trouble with Sharia Law being instituted (namely in France and the UK) and Islam critics are somewhat being silenced... The UN doesn't help matters either (when have they ever helped matters though? :thatface: )

Fat1Fared: I actually live in Canada :) Moved out of the US 2 years ago after realizing things were heading in the wrong direction.

So you moved to Canada? (No offense to anyone living in Canada of course, but I am not in full agreement with policies up there.)

[OverMind]

So you moved to Canada? (No offense to anyone living in Canada of course, but I am not in full agreement with policies up there.)

Which policies?