Is Killing Another Person Wrong?

[Tatterdemalion]

Okay, I know there are all these arguments about the justification of things like self-defense, and killing one person to save others, and sometimes even the death penalty. These are things people try to justify or condemn one way or another.

but my question is this. What about flat out murder? It seems that we have this axiom in contemporary Western civilization that murder is wrong, to the extend that we never talk about it.

So, my question to you. Is killing another person, murdering them, if you will, wrong. And if so, why?

[HolyShadow]

Ending any life is wrong, but killing another human is especially wrong.

Ending a life of something like a cow is wrong because they're alive, and then they're not. Pretty simple. Life is all we have on earth. We can't have anything if we're dead, even hope. This is also why people dream of an afterlife. Killing a human is even more wrong because we understand how another feels as they're close to death. Unless we dehumanize them, we understand exactly how it feels to fear losing a life.

However, murderers tend to dehumanize people. The only way to really kill and feel no remorse is to not compare yourself to others, or basically be insane.

This is merely my opinion, and there are several counter-arguments by people who have studied this more, or feel stronger about it.

Now, killing for feeding purposes should be fine as long as it serves a real purpose. However, most people who kill humans don't eat them. The ones that do are dehumanizing humans and turning them into a type of animal.

[Tatterdemalion]

We can't have anything if we're dead, even hope.

But can we want anything if we're dead? That is, as long as we're alive, we have sensation, there's nothing we can do to avoid that. So, as long as we're here, we seek out positive sensations. But if we don't have any sensation whatsoever, does the fact that we don't have positive sensation really matter?

That is, once you're dead, will you really care that you're not alive?

[killshot]

Isn't this topic a little too similar to the good and evil thread? Wouldn't the answer to this question depend on whether or not anything can be right or wrong?

To give the short answer, murder is wrong because society has agreed that it is. Murder is wrong because no one wants to be murdered. Order cannot exist within society if murder was acceptable, so everyone must agree to not kill one another. To eliminate the fear of being murdered, people agree that no one has the right to kill anyone else.

Although the question was limited to killing humans, I think it would be interesting to see where people draw the line with other living things. If killing people is wrong, then what about an ape? A reptile? A fish? A plant? If we can decide killing people is wrong, then surely we can decide what else is unacceptable to murder.

[HolyShadow]

But can we want anything if we're dead? That is, as long as we're alive, we have sensation, there's nothing we can do to avoid that. So, as long as we're here, we seek out positive sensations. But if we don't have any sensation whatsoever, does the fact that we don't have positive sensation really matter?

That is, once you're dead, will you really care that you're not alive?
If that's what you believe, kill yourself and tell me.

[DaJacksterN]

I personally don't think you can analyze the concept of murder from a 'good or bad?' perspective because there is not definite, true way to define good and evil.

Murder is natural among human beings and the animal kingdom. However, we should not allow ourselves to fall to our more animalistic side and murder one another because that would be the collapse of our society. That is why it is instinct to hate and despise the concept of killing our kin, and for such strong feelings of dislike for the action arise within us; because it's been hard-waired into our brains in order for our species to survive.

So no, murder isn't good if the majority of us want to keep from crashing into complete, total anarchy.

[Tatterdemalion]

Isn't this topic a little too similar to the good and evil thread? Wouldn't the answer to this question depend on whether or not anything can be right or wrong?

Any question about right and wrong would be affected by whether or not anything could be right or wrong. But it's not entirely dependent, because accepting that things can be wrong, it's still possible for murder, or anything else, to be right.

To give the short answer, murder is wrong because society has agreed that it is. Murder is wrong because no one wants to be murdered. Order cannot exist within society if murder was acceptable, so everyone must agree to not kill one another. To eliminate the fear of being murdered, people agree that no one has the right to kill anyone else.

Yet even though people supposedly agree not to kill people, the number of people who are murdered each year is astronomical. So assuming a significant amount of murder is going to exist wheter society allows it or not, then doesn't that mean murder and society can coexist? Or does this mean that our society does not have order?

[caps]

killing someone and not killing yourself is like saying my life is more important than yours and condemning that person to an eternity of...nothingness before their time. it also much depends on your motives, but killing is still killing. life is so short..insignificant, really, compared to what lies after it, so every second counts. and even if you don't value your life very much, that might change when you realize we can't even begin to fathom how long death is. so yes, it is wrong in my opinion.

[Tatterdemalion]

Murder is natural among human beings and the animal kingdom. However, we should not allow ourselves to fall to our more animalistic side and murder one another because that would be the collapse of our society. That is why it is instinct to hate and despise the concept of killing our kin, and for such strong feelings of dislike for the action arise within us; because it's been hard-waired into our brains in order for our species to survive.

So no, murder isn't good if the majority of us want to keep from crashing into complete, total anarchy.

Thomas Hobbes would love you.

[DaJacksterN]

Never heard of him. Pray tell, who is Thomas Hobbes?

[Underling]

NEVERHEARD OF IT. PRAY TELL, WHAT IS GOOGLE?

[DaJacksterN]

NEVERHEARD OF IT. PRAY TELL, WHAT IS GOOGLE?

But I iz lazy! :eek:

[TPishek]

Never heard of him. Pray tell, who is Thomas Hobbes?

English philosopher from... late 1500's I want to say?

Basically, he said that government is a necessary evil and should be powerful. In fact it should have the power to take away people's rights if doing so is necessary to protect them.
If there were no government and we relied on instinct, people would fall into a war of all against all, or whatever that is in Latin. Bellum omnium contra omnes?

Something along those lines, anyway, it's been a while since AP Euro. :) But his book was called the Leviathan. I remember that...

[caps]

NEVERHEARD OF IT. PRAY TELL, WHAT IS GOOGLE?

google is a rare type of fangirl seen only in the northern regions of Tibet

[DaJacksterN]

Lol, good one caps. xD

Ah, gotcha. I actually did see that crazy Tibetan fangirl and looked up what Mr. Hobbes had to say about philosophy. An interesting, eerily similar view as mine is some areas, and a bit less so in others.

All of these things apply if we want to survive. It is true that if some peoples' rights weren't taken away, they would end up killing themselves or others...

Heh, this is actually why I don't believe that we'll ever acheive true World Peace; there will always be a dumbass or psycho out there to ruin it for all the rest. And if they were to lock everyone like that up, then society would have prisoners and hatred, and so world peace would not exist.
Sounds harsh, but the truth hurts.

Anywho, back on topic, murder is something that must be. It's impossible to keep it from happening without totally brainwashing a society so that they cannot make their own decisions. We can keep it to a minimum so that it doesn't affect society enough to cause a great impact, but eliminating it completely is near impossible.

[Apple]

It also depends on what country you live in, not that where you live will define your own logic but punishment is harsher in some countries Example-the southern states than it is over here in N.Z

Murder with the plain intent just to kill someone is just wrong. Wanting to kill someone for the sake of it borders on the insane nazism, Racism was and is an excuse to kill people....sometimes

[Dunmerdude]

I don't see abortion or mercy killing as Murder but for non-medical resions its wrong.

[DarkPhoenix]

murder would barely exist if everyone lived in communities of less the 100 people cause if you noticed...really small towns of less the 100 people hardly ever have anything worse then their cars being stolen. >_<

[maisetofan]

murder would barely exist if everyone lived in communities of less the 100 people cause if you noticed...really small towns of less the 100 people hardly ever have anything worse then their cars being stolen. >_<

haha lol what logic is that?:eek:

[TPishek]

haha lol what logic is that?:eek:

At some point, there was a group of philosophers who wanted to set up society entirely in communes of --the number 116 sticks in my head-- people each for exactly that reason, so it can't be all that farfetched.
I can't find anything on google about that but I swear I can remember learning about it in one of my classes years ago. :/
Now would it really work? I don't know, and I have my doubts.


As far as I'm concerned, life is one right everyone has, and should not be taken away. However, murderers do exist, and that is an unavoidable fact.
One of the students in my 11th grade trigonometry class was murdered, along with the rest of his family, at 2:30 in the morning by his best friend, who was also one of my classmates. That happened in early May; they didn't discover that the other kid had done it until after school let out for the summer. So every day for the rest of the school year I came to math class and sat right next to someone my age who had committed a triple homicide, and had absolutely no idea.
That still freaks me out.

[Fat1Fared]

At some point, there was a group of philosophers who wanted to set up society entirely in communes of --the number 116 sticks in my head-- people each for exactly that reason, so it can't be all that farfetched.
I can't find anything on google about that but I swear I can remember learning about it in one of my classes years ago. :/
Now would it really work? I don't know, and I have my doubts.


As far as I'm concerned, life is one right everyone has, and should not be taken away. However, murderers do exist, and that is an unavoidable fact.
One of the students in my 11th grade trigonometry class was murdered, along with the rest of his family, at 2:30 in the morning by his best friend, who was also one of my classmates. That happened in early May; they didn't discover that the other kid had done it until after school let out for the summer. So every day for the rest of the school year I came to math class and sat right next to someone my age who had committed a triple homicide, and had absolutely no idea.
That still freaks me out.

Your on about the English businessman Arkright, I believe among others (have to check, as was lot of them and whole thing failed, because too many poeple were lazy <facepalm>

Anyway, you must be careful, as THE word "MURDER" means a very different thing, to word "KILLING" infact, 90% of things most poeple call murder, is infact, higher manslaughter

-Murder is a pre-meditated, (AKA planned) ending of someones life by structured actions of person/persons with intent to end That persons life (Which means, if plan to kill someone and do it wrong, tech it isn't even murder then, but most judges throw that one out window)

Anyway my point is, if you murder someone, there is usually reason behind it, and useless you know reasons, of an action, you cannot judge it

-IE, I kill someone, just because he called me Fat1farted, that would in most poeples eyes, be an unjustifiable murder (well will say I have pre-meditated it for simplicities fake)

-But, I have a wife, who is savagely beaten and raped to death, the person gets away with it, over come with pain, I kill man who did it. Is this justified, well that is far more individual question, which cannot be answered on face value and so I will leave it up to you!

EditAs JR says under though, it is probably better to say murder is always wrong, apart from in most rare and exstream classes

However other killing types are far more problematic: IE a solider, some would say he is just doing a job and fighting for his county, others would say he is worse than some murders because he is killing for another mans reasons.......(Anyway, I will leave it there and see what other poeples thoughts are

[Tatterdemalion]

At some point, there was a group of philosophers who wanted to set up society entirely in communes of --the number 116 sticks in my head-- people each for exactly that reason, so it can't be all that farfetched.
I can't find anything on google about that but I swear I can remember learning about it in one of my classes years ago. :/
Now would it really work? I don't know, and I have my doubts.

There have been quite a few people who've wanted to do that. Emerson and his Transcendentalist buddies stick out in my head, as well as Goethe, or one of his associates...in any case, it's not an uncommon plan. It usually doesn't work.

[JesusRocks]

Fat1Fared, I am gonna have to translate that lol XD

- The meaning of "murder" is not the same as the meaning of "killing"
- Killing is simply the taking of life
- Killing another human being unlawfully is classed as "Homicide"
- There are several different types of Homicide, of which murder is one.

- Murder is "the unlawful killing of a person in being with malice aforethought"
- Unlawful Killing = This means that the definition of murder (or even homicide in general, because the definitions of all the different types appear to stress this) solely regards killing which is against the law. Cf: A soldier killing another soldier in wartime is not murder, or any other type of homicide, since it is lawful.
- Person in being = In UK law, a person is legally recognised as a human being only once the umbilical cord is cut, and as long as the heart is beating. Killing a foetus, or a child still attached to the umbilical cord is not murder, it would probably be classed as a miscarriage or an illegal abortion, but not murder.
- Malice Aforethought = Intention, without intention there is no murder (instead, some type of manslaughter) - I cannot remember whether this Intention is Objective or Subjective.

This is a very distinct definition of Murder. We are not talking solely about Murder here. We are talking very broadly about "Killing".
If we're going to go down the religion route with this discussion, let me first say this, the Bible does not say "You shall not kill", but "You shall not commit murder"
Hebrew draws a very plain distinction between "killing" and "murder" much in the same way that most legal systems do.

If we take it as an assumption that the modern law as outlined above is anything worth going by, then "You shall not commit murder" in the Ten Commandments excludes the killing that happens during war. It is also likely that it excludes types of manslaughter to a certain extent - although manslaughter does not remove responsibility from the defendant, but acknowledges certain mitigating circumstances in order to give a lesser sentence.
Although this appears to make some legal sense, it's probably likely that the culture at the time did define murder as something different to how we do in modern law, BUT it certainly does not lump all homicide under the heading of murder - meaning that "murder" in the Ten Commandments is a lot more specific than "killing"
Blame the transition from Hebrew -> Latin -> English in the King James Version for making it "Thou shalt not kill"

Therefore, the question "Is killing another person wrong?" is shown for the truly broad and vague question that it is.
Certainly "Murdering" another person is wrong, for reasons given above (such has dehumanising the victim) and also because it exhudes hatred and extreme anger, loss of self control and pure contempt for another person's life. Wartime killing generally and naively does not contain any of these, but instead supposedly is done with an air of professionalism, calmness, respect for the enemy and a sense of duty... :/

So let's put the very specific "murder" aside and focus on other types of killing...

[Rydonmower]

Yes, I agree Death Note has a slight say on the subject. I read another story on some forum somewhere that was heavily based on Death Note, though it focused more on the 'You deserve to die' part.
Personally, I agree in that killing another is wrong due to crimes (talking about vigilantes here, not death sentancing). In this story, a character (based on L) summed it up well by the simple line, "No-one deserves to die", which I think is completely true.
If anyine's intreseted in the story (and I think it's pretty good) here it is:
http://forum.runescape.com/forums.ws?49,50,702,56883030

[Spoofs3]

I for one do not like extremists in religion for this reason.
One of the commandments of the Judaism and Christian faith is
"Thou shalt not Kill"
But amazingly, I do not believe in this.
For one it does not state, Human or animal, Many would presume human but ending an animals life would that not be equally wrong with the clear words "Thou shalt not kill" Without going into it further.

Animals I believe is right to kill. Why? Because of food, Clothing, Whatnot. The essentials.
This is because it is battle of the fittest, You or them, I personally would chose them.
Its all natural, Humans were built to be Omnivores, Eat plants and Meat, No use argueing with the truth.

As for Humans?
Killing them is right, Murdering is wrong
Take this for example, Self defense, You or them once again, If it came down to it, Survival comes first, They have to die for you to live if thats the only option.

But this is another example which came to mind
You are part of a new holocaust, You are part of the victums
A officer pulls you aside and shows you ten people, He says "Kill one, The other 9 live, Kill none, I kill them all"

I would kill the one to save the nine. This is because it IS preserving life, Although you killed one, The other nine survived, Meaning the odds of Survival is higher.
So basically, Killing for the joy of killing?
Bad
Killing to save someone else (Yourself, others)
Good
Ya see where I'm coming from?

[Fat1Fared]

Spoofs, interesting thought, killing one to save the group, but be careful with that path, as that argument has been used in past for more than one act of mass murder.......

Also here is another question, lets say you are a general and have 10 men, in emeny area, and if left they will die, would you risk say 30 mens lives to save the 10 men? (Very simple verison of it, but:
=if your gambit fails and all 40 die, you killed 30 for nothing,
=but if don't kill 10 for sure,
=Finally you save 10, but 13 die doing it,

So what is answer, it is easy to make these judgements on paper, but who are we to make them

[caps]

wrong
   /rɔŋ, rɒŋ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rawng, rong] Show IPA
–adjective
1. not in accordance with what is morally right or good: a wrong deed.
2. deviating from truth or fact; erroneous: a wrong answer.
3. not correct in action, judgment, opinion, method, etc., as a person; in error: You are wrong to blame him.
4. not proper or usual; not in accordance with requirements or recommended practice: the wrong way to hold a golf club.
5. out of order; awry; amiss: Something is wrong with the machine.
6. not suitable or appropriate: He always says the wrong thing.
7. (of clothing) that should be worn or kept inward or under: You're wearing the sweater wrong side out.
–noun
8. that which is wrong, or not in accordance with morality, goodness, or truth; evil: I committed many wrongs.
9. an injustice: The wrongs they suffered aged them.
10. Law.
a. an invasion of another's right, to his damage.
b. a tort.
–adverb
11. in a wrong manner; not rightly; awry; amiss: You did it wrong again.
–verb (used with object)
12. to do wrong to; treat unfairly or unjustly; harm.
13. to impute evil to (someone) unjustly; malign.
—Idioms
14. get in wrong, Slang. to cause to come into disfavor: We are forever getting in wrong with the people next door.
15. go wrong,
a. to go amiss; fail: Everything is going wrong today.
b. to pursue an immoral course; become depraved: Bad friends caused him to go wrong.
16. in the wrong, to blame; in error: He knew he was in the wrong but refused to concede the point.

so it's a moral thing, so its relative. however...

killing someone and not killing yourself is like saying my life is more important than yours and condemning that person to an eternity of...nothingness before their time. it also much depends on your motives, but killing is still killing. life is so short..insignificant, really, compared to what lies after it, so every second counts. and even if you don't value your life very much, that might change when you realize we can't even begin to fathom how long death is. so yes, it is wrong in my opinion.

I believe it is wrong

[maisetofan]

What i can not understand is how its okay to murder an unborn baby by abortion but killing a baby is completely horrible and you go to prison for it, so you should but i dont think abortion should be legal, only cuz someone in my family had one and it affects more than just the person having it. The baby is not just a blob, i believe it has a soul

so yeah murder in any form is wrong when its of pure malice

[Fat1Fared]

Mai, maybe it is easier for me as I don't believe in souls, and so to me the unborn baby is nothing more than muscle at that point, and though an Abortian is something I am not a fan of and would personally be aginst doing, I don't think that there is any argument out there to say it shouldn't be at lest a choice and as a man, I know it is not my place to judge a Woman who takes it

[Apple]

Mai, maybe it is easier for me as I don't believe in souls, and so to me the unborn baby is nothing more than muscle at that point, and though an Abortian is something I am not a fan of and would personally be aginst doing, I don't think that there is any argument out there to say it shouldn't be at lest a choice and as a man, I know it is not my place to judge a Woman who takes it

Yeah i dont know where i stand with that either, you cannot decide for someone really can you?

[caps]

also the baby doesn't know what it is missing...and if the parents can't afford to have a child, it would probably have a worse life than death.

is there an abortion thread?

[Jim Profit]

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/e1mfTaJItGQ/default.jpg
If you ask me, people don't kill eachother enough. People suck and should die.

I actually feel more sorry for an insect dying then a human. Why? Because an insect is just trying to survive. Their whole life is centered around struggle and persistance to live a comfortable life of food, sex, and lulz. Aren't we all...

The difference is animals, even insects, are not malevolant. Oh sure, they might appear to be. But that's cause they're scared, tired, and paranoid. You would be too if you had to live their crappy life. I like animals, and at my old house lizards use to crawl on my bed and sleep next to me, so I started feeding them.

People not so much. People's misery and death gives me a boner. Because people cut me off in traffic, people argue with me, people diss me, people think they're better then me, people bother me, people won't let me touch them inappropiately.

People are anti-lulz. And that's a good enough reason as any to die.

Especially women.

To be fair, I am greatly opposed to babymurder too. For the same reasons as animals. If I had my way hunting would be banned, and abortion would be universaly criminalized. This is actually opposed to my religion as in Satanism we would probably just leave hunting/abortions for the ruling elite.

[Fat1Fared]

Jim, try and kill someone, see if they agree with you!!!!!!! or kill yourself, if life is so cheap to you, why bother living

PS I am not actually saying do this, so don't quote me or say I really told you to do it. However I hate it when poeple S^^T on life and other poeple, but then never doing anything themselves, you are basically saying most poeple don't deverse to live, yet who are you to make that judgement and what have you done that makes you so important as to live, there may be poeple out there who should die and may be those who are dead, but deverse life, however before being so quiet to make yourself, judge, jury and Ender, think who am I to make this judgement

Anyway, trying to make this serious again, what about killing someone who wants to die, but cannot kill themselves (know word but can't spell it!!!!!)

[caps]

If you ask me, people don't kill eachother enough. People suck and should die.

I actually feel more sorry for an insect dying then a human. Why? Because an insect is just trying to survive. Their whole life is centered around struggle and persistance to live a comfortable life of food, sex, and lulz. Aren't we all...

The difference is animals, even insects, are not malevolant. Oh sure, they might appear to be. But that's cause they're scared, tired, and paranoid. You would be too if you had to live their crappy life. I like animals, and at my old house lizards use to crawl on my bed and sleep next to me, so I started feeding them.

People not so much. People's misery and death gives me a boner. Because people cut me off in traffic, people argue with me, people diss me, people think they're better then me, people bother me, people won't let me touch them inappropiately.

People are anti-lulz. And that's a good enough reason as any to die.

Especially women.

To be fair, I am greatly opposed to babymurder too. For the same reasons as animals. If I had my way hunting would be banned, and abortion would be universaly criminalized. This is actually opposed to my religion as in Satanism we would probably just leave hunting/abortions for the ruling elite.
let me get this straight...you don't have a problem with killing people but you don't like killing things that will...become people...

also, here is a spoiler, your a human :eek: (probably)

[Spoofs3]

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/e1mfTaJItGQ/default.jpg
If you ask me, people don't kill eachother enough. People suck and should die.

I actually feel more sorry for an insect dying then a human. Why? Because an insect is just trying to survive. Their whole life is centered around struggle and persistance to live a comfortable life of food, sex, and lulz. Aren't we all...

Yes, yes we are all, So what makes a human and an insect different?

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/e1mfTaJItGQ/default.jpg
The difference is animals, even insects, are not malevolant. Oh sure, they might appear to be. But that's cause they're scared, tired, and paranoid. You would be too if you had to live their crappy life. I like animals, and at my old house lizards use to crawl on my bed and sleep next to me, so I started feeding them.

Scared, Tired, Paranoid? Sounds quite like humans aswell, Crappy life? Thats what they are used to, To them it is as hard as ours is, It is what they were trained to do by their parents, So quite obviously its easier for them, You just find it hard because you think it looks hard, But honoustly? Over the years they have dveloped ways to make it easier.
And if you like animals? Good to know, seems like it

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/e1mfTaJItGQ/default.jpg
People not so much. People's misery and death gives me a boner. Because people cut me off in traffic, people argue with me, people diss me, people think they're better then me, people bother me, people won't let me touch them inappropiately.

People invented the traffic that you use (Don't like people? THROW AWAY YOUR CAR! Solves that problem doesn't it?)
Argue with you? And you don't think Animals don't argue?
Animals too fight, Bite and get altogether rough, Arguements are natural, And be thankful you live in a society where having an arguement won't get you thrown out of the pack left to die (Quite alot of animal Kingdoms)
Bother you? Of course they do, They have to, Amazingly, opinions are different, What bothers you could be a god send for someone else, You got to remember that.
Last point... Wut? Amazingly in the animal kingdom,. The one you aspire to be like, They don't allow them to touch them inappropriatly either, IOn fact, Only the king is allowed, So you would not get any... at all... Not even from your girlfriend (I mention this because you seem to be hateful towards society which allows you to be together unlike lets say... The deer kingdom)


http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/e1mfTaJItGQ/default.jpg
To be fair, I am greatly opposed to babymurder too. For the same reasons as animals. If I had my way hunting would be banned, and abortion would be universaly criminalized. This is actually opposed to my religion as in Satanism we would probably just leave hunting/abortions for the ruling elite.

Wow, Thats smart, 1. Hunting
Good or bad? GOOD! DINGDINGDING!
Hunting is the main principal for humans.. Animals too (Lets be like the ones you aspire to be like shall we?)
Animals hunt for food, So do humans, So Hunting? Good, You need to eat.
Hunting for clothes? Good DINGDINGDING
This is good because if it is proper reason (Heavy cloths for warmth, light for coolness and protection against sun, Thick for armour) Then it is needed, You need them to survive in the world.
Abortions? You amazingly said kill humans, So all this together? This means you are not seeing the bigger picture, And amazingly are a hypocryte, YEAh thanks

[inamerica55585]

Lemme just clear this up.
There are 2 situations when it is OK to kill someone.
1. if your own life is threatened, and
2. if by killing this person, you could save more than one life i.e. if he was about to kill your family.
There's no debate. no question. that's it.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

could you live with yourself knowing you let someone die when you could have stopped it? think about it.....:cool:[/QUOTE]

You pose a good question. Could I live with myself if I stood and watched someone die. To answer truthfully it all depends on the situation. If I know nothing about the situation I will at least try and quell whats going on. Not at all times would I do that though. Per say two gangs were gung ho and about to shoot each other up. Using logic I would safely escape.

The question about murder. In no way is murder acceptble in my mind. I dont care how crummy of a person they are. They could jack you for your lunch money every day. They deserve punishment not death. No one is above anyone to decide when someone dies. Imprisoment if anything. Have them do HARD labor for their crimes. Make someone PAY. Not with their life though. Life is too precious to give away.

Killing I say is okay in some scenairos. Theres a difference. Murder is just an act of hate. killing is sometimes in defense. Like per say I was married. My kids were in danger. A man had a gun aimed at their heads. I would move in to disarm the man and if worst came to worst and the man was hell bent on harming my children. I would shoot. Hopefully it hits his leg or an arm. But per say I hit a vital organ or even his heart or brain. Well the mans dead. Did I do it out of spite for him or out of defense??? (answer defense) I diddent murder the man I killed him.

Im a christian though so I believe when you kill someone they go to hell which is the ultimate punishment. And I dont want ANYONE in hell.

And for those who dont believe in hell. You have no idea whats in the after life. So you may be sending him to val halla lolz.(I dont believe it exist but you may) So you could actually instead of making them pay doing them a civil service(which I once again believe you are not doing)

[Fat1Fared]

Isk, you don't need to tell us your Christian after every post, I am one of histiores biggest non-believers, as even if is a god, he cannot be ultimate, as in end he is just another being, maybe every smart being, but nothing more,

In your last post you are basically saying that because I am a non-believer I have no idea what will happen after death, which is true, I BELIEVE I will have nothing after death, existence will end for me, but I know, enough, to know I KNOW NOTHING, however you also seem to say that you DO KNOW what will happen, sorry hun, you don't, you just know what you believe and have choosen to believe in life after to death, even though there are that many dead, heaven must be big place to keep them all (also I think living forever after death seems like punishement, whether in heaven or hell, but that is another point for another day)

Anyway, the point I am making here is don't think religion gives you higher answers, it doesn't give answers at all, it gives you belief and there is big difference, which a lot forget

However other than that, I would say your point is right, and on whole agrees with the eariler points, made by me and JR, about the difference between murderer and killing, Though we looked at it from legal point, rather religious, and dispite my eariler comments I can see the point you were getting at, it just won't apply to me

[Ishikawa Oshro]

hahahahaha
true true