time travel- can it be done?

[grimfang999]

what do you think?

this is the conversation between me and fat1fared that sparked it off in the meaning of life thread:

what i find interestig is that while the regilious creation story is to convinient, i find the scientific explaination of the big band and how the world became livable through microscopic plant spores photosynthesising enough to allow bacteria to evolve on land and just how everything came to be a bit to much of coincidence to be chance

Well this is thing, yes it is easy to say, that what are chances of it just being chance, but then you must remember, how big is universe, how much of existence is there really, how long has it been around

When look at it, no matter how small chance of something, if have enough of it, it will come true in end

IE=no many how unlikely it is to get a Royal flush, you play enough times, you will get it in end

Life is chance, effected by you reaction to that chance



but thats what im saying, chance may be small, but what im saying is it might be ment for you to get it at a certain time in your predetermined fate, like philosophers say: nothing can be proven, only assumed. and if my theory of time travel does happen to be true, the destiny can be proven to exist if we dont all die and be relooped through all eternity.


grim your above the if can't be disproven, then must be true agruement, I know I can't disprove it, but still think more chance of it not existing, as lets ask this question, if it is preset, what preset it and did something preset them???????

Also Time-Tavel is possible because of Time-space-Continuem, space itself it a time-machine, as everything we see existing, is there because of light and so once get past a distance, it becomes so far away it takes light too long to get here and so literelly light which takes pictures to us, isn't fast enough to keep up with time itself

and so this is my response:

time travel cannot be done because traveling back in time, even through the bending of light and gravity, will take you back to a time where you were not. and as i explained previously, even one small change in matter will completely spiral off in another direction o what it meant to. a few particles of oxygen breathed in by a time traveller, a single blade of grass moved, and, this is where your belief of chance comes into this, it may cause something different to happen which will eventually make the person not exist, and because he did not exist there would be nobody to travel back to that time an change the world meaning a paradox is formed and the universe will become an eternal loop.

im not talking about relativity of light and distance, im talking about earth and what has been done on earth and how it connot change. where destiny comes into it is where you were meant to bend the gravity and go back to a certain time on earth, where therefore you were meant to be there and so time cannot break. without the idea of that destiny, its not the actual traveling of time that will break the cotinueum, but what happens in the tim period you appear in

[darkarcher]

I'll comment on this later when I have a clear head and a bit of time to read through it all slower.

[TaiCat]

I looove time pradox theory :3

I think there's no way you can change time and everything is made in order or at least decisions you make affect future and they became solid time building actions
well my view is that:
1.If you travel back in time and unless you are a part of story which is solid matter it could be possible (like Grandfather's Paradox)
2.But if time travel would cause matter disorder you would cease to exist and so many other lifes if not whole universe
3.You could be kicked out of time if you did travel,especialy back because your appearance there would change whole history as everything works like chain
4.There's also theory that traveling in time would cause new branch in time which is highly denieable as no one can prove that time could split into different timelines.There's only one line

that's my view >.>

[Apple]

perhaps we are all living in a dream and our dreams are the reality? :eek:
so we can travel? i dont know

In your mind u can go anywhere ^_____^

[VegitarianZombie]

There are three main arguments (That I know of) against time-travling to the past, and the two most credible are technicalitys:

A) Time does not exist.
Time is an abstract "created" by humans in order to organize there life and make sense of the world around them. So the ideas of "Past", "Present", and "Future" (not to mention traveling through them) are irrelevant.
B) No matter what you do (or do not do) you will change the "Present".
This theoroy asumes that if you go to the "Past" you automatically change something, thus the "Past" that you know of no longer exists and has become a different "Past" (so you never went there). Also, if you travel to the "Past" there is a good chance that you will no longer exist in the "Present" thus: you never traveled to the "Past". This theoroy also assumes that time is maleable and infinite and, therefore, ceseptable to change.
C) It is immposlibe.
(Self-Explanatory)


There is no real way to argue agianst these theoroy's since the average human does not have a means in order to "Time" travel. So the only thing we can do is find/think up a theoroy that we like for ourselves and argue over wich is more logical.
Personaly, I am a fan of this one:
No matter what you do, you can NOT change the "Present"
This can either be because time is controlled by or actually IS an entity and will rearage itself around your actions so they become null and void or, (the most likely choice) the "Present" is BASED around the fact that you went to the "Past". IE becasue you went to the "Past" in the "Future", you "Changed" something and made the "Future" what you already know.

[grimfang999]

just one thing i want to also point out about time travel. even if it were possable, like the person above says, our concept of time id different, and so you cannot type in a date and be taken to that specific time. unless you can figure out just how much gravity is needed to go back a ertain amount of years, which you will need to go back several times, leaving your research and technology behind (well very far in ahead of you) and so considering that fact, if it could be done, it would be random to where you appear

[havefun]

i say it can be done, but only in one way: you can go to the future, but not to the past. in fact we're constantly travelling through time, because time keeps going on. we can make it go slower by moving fast. that way, according to einstein's theory of relativity, time passes faster to everyone else, so you're actually travelling faster through time.

i admit it's hard to believe and i have troubles to completely agree with this theory as well. but at the moment this is considered to be true.

[grimfang999]

there was an idea i had which proves future travel aside from constant time movement is impossable, but i cannot remember what it is

[Redwolf]

You can never go into the past or future, because if you did, they would become the present.

So, in a way, time travel is impossible because you are always in the present.

[grimfang999]

You can never go into the past or future, because if you did, they would become the present.

So, in a way, time travel is impossible because you are always in the present.

in one perspective its true, but then you must consider when you are meant to exist to when you have gone. it is true whenever you are it will be the present, but past and future is just the names of which we give to whats behind and in front. you could be in a different present if you time traveled, thus in that tense its interpretation of the phrase

[Redwolf]

Yea, I know what you mean.
By the term "Time-Travel" is states that you "Move Forward or Backwards in Time" so, it's not about going to "Past or Future" but to a different present tense.

You could go to the Future, which will be forward in time, but you wouldn't actually be in the future unless you were refering to yourself before you time traveled.

This topic has always been confusing to me ._.

[grimfang999]

yeah its quite complex when you get down to relativity and intrpretations.

the only things i can be sure about with time is what time it is in human time and that if god gave us time he wouldnt want us to waste it

[Fat1Fared]

You can never go into the past or future, because if you did, they would become the present.

So, in a way, time travel is impossible because you are always in the present.

Though I like your play on words, this isn't stopping time tavel, this merely shows another veiw on the meaning of several different words

Now time travel, can happen in way that if got something to allow you to see far enough into space to make a real effect on Time Space Continume, however this would be more like watching the past than traveling into it (Like finding the bottom of rainbow)

However if want to make a machine which allows us to move between time, as if we were moving between places, well then it depends on which theory of time you look at, the two main ones are:

1=A striaght time-line:-This would be impossible to go to past, as if this was case, then time would only be going striaght forward and unless there is some force other day and night, which controls it, there would be nothing to manipulate, into allowing us to travel backwards. However could go forward, if you could freeze yourself in a part fo time, and allow rest to move on, this wouldn't be a time-machine, but would allow you to travel time.

2=However, other is a that time and space are a spiral, and if this is true, then something which has already happened and going to happen, is pushed against, in what could be seen as another (Can't spell word) and if could find way to cut the invisible walls between them, then could go between them and time

[Redwolf]

Another aspect to time travel is that...

A) If it is possible, then the most likely time for someone to time travel to is a historic event, such as the year 2000, the world wars.

If Time Travel is possible, then how come no-one has came here from the future yet?

It's either that it's not possible or it happens so far in the future that this era is completely forgotten against.

B) it wouldn't be allow as one thing you do in the past can alter the future.
There is a risk of stopping yourself existing or becoming your own relative.

[grimfang999]

i just believe you can only travel to where you were as in there was a duplicate of you in that time.

so lets say, just out of a random assumption i made ages ago, Jesus was actually a man from the future disguised as a man who claimed to be the son of god so people could get an interpretation they could grip rather than he was from the far future where nothing was the same. his healing powers came from medicines from his time or genitic engineering. my point here is that he was meant to go back in time and do that, and so comes in the idea of destiny of which you go back if you were intended to. that is the only way it can work without actually breaking the space time continueum and an eternal paradox of the universe constantly restarting and being destroyed again.

[Redwolf]

But if Jesus was from the future, he destoyed a whole civilisation and left his mark on the world, The present had probably been completely changed when he went back and everyone probably thought he was a second reincarnation.

[grimfang999]

could be that, but im saying if fate exists and he was meant to go back in time meaning that it would not change, he might have been geneticly engineered in preparation for what he had to do in the past, and then that would explain everything

[Redwolf]

Hmm....
The theory does seem strangly logical.

[grimfang999]

indeed, and if this were to happen it would prove time travel is possable to a degree and also that fate does exist, which may prove the existance of a supreme being we know as "god".

but if free time travel without any negative effects is proven, the next issue as i have already mentioned is getting the time precise since if it is done by bending gravity and light you would appear in any random time.

[killshot]

Sorry to get off topic, but why does almost every serious discussion on this site mention Christianity at some point, no matter how far religion was from the original subject? Is there some kind of Godwin's Law for religion and yugioh?

If there isn't one already, I demand that we make one and it be called "killshot's law."

[Fat1Fared]

Killshot how is this:-The 10 CoKillments

1=You shell not tell anyone of 10 CoKillements

2=You shell not tell anyone of 10 CoKillements

3=You shall Kill Everyone, who doesn't listen to 10 CoKillements Please God, let someone see my irony there

4=You shall only know peace, when all against the 10 CoKillements are DEAD

5=You shell not tell anyone of 10 CoKillements

6=You must show poeple the light of the 10 CoKillements

7=All talk must return to 10 CoKillements

8=Everything is by the ONE TRUE GOD Removing several others KILLSHOT

9=The Book of Fared, is the one true WORD OF GOD and it will spread his message, mindlessly believe it and obey it

10=You shell not tell anyone of 10 CoKillements

Now I must die for talking of 10 CoKillements

[killshot]

Amusing, but not exactly what I had in mind.


ON TOPIC: I think we can forget about time travel until we figure out a way to exceed the speed of light.

[Fat1Fared]

Amusing, but not exactly what I had in mind.


ON TOPIC: I think we can forget about time travel until we figure out a way to exceed the speed of light.

what wrong, better rules, for a more conformist tomorrow and so they don't make sense, if any religion did make sense it, would instancly blow up and die

PS=-Also Killshot, if your saying you need to travel faster speed of light to travel through time, it is impossible, as though orginally it was believe light was faster than time, which is why could see everything, the Time-Space-Continume, proves that wrong and that nothing can go faster than speed of time, so speed doesn't matter, to do it, you would niether have to freeze apart of time and space, and allow time to move round you or you would have to prove that time, is more that state of mind and that something behind it, then you would have to blend or manipulate that thing, into blending the part of time your in, into part of time wish to be in, and and so you can go there, of course if this worked, then in theory you could make existance fall in on itself

[VegitarianZombie]

ON TOPIC: I think we can forget about time travel until we figure out a way to exceed the speed of light.

If we were able to get TO the speed of light, we would be able to time travel (in a sense). Just get to the speed fo light and time stops (acording to Einstein).

There you go, you're at the future (now try to find your way back)>

[narutostarwars]

The issue with Time Travel is that it fundamentally breaks the laws of physics and science. You can't not even imagine how to build something.
Even AT the speed of light, time dilation kicks in and you're younger than the amount of time you aged as you were in the period of going at the speed of light.

[grimfang999]

right i only brought religion up because there are odds of a God of sorts existing and if destiny time travel is there then there is also an increased chance of a God

now about trying to go faster, dont ask me why but even if you try to get cllose t the speed of light, light will speed up thus you will never catch it. what they pan to be done if they do decide to risk it is to create some sort of chamber which bends gravity which will create some sort of orb of light and the bending of gravity and build up of light energy should cause a movement in time... or something along those lines i cannot remember i completely.

i did have a thought about the Large hadron collider however. because that is in a similar environmnet, isnt there a chance that the gravity from the black holes may cause an interference of time on earth? i think it would be quite bizzare if we all went back to the pre-egyptian times without our technology and thats humanity began, lol i have some strange theorys

[JulzzBabeex3]

I'm unsure on if Time Travel is possible or not...
Time is something, I think, that does not really exist, it's kind of like an illusion, or a dimension, and traveling through dimensions... I don't know about that.
But, maybe somehow, with enough speed (I mean literally- but FAR, FAR past the speed of light), we could somehow travel through dimensions.
I don't know.

[Tatterdemalion]

The thing about time is that we can already travel through time. We;re just all travelling at the same speed, but we're all travelling forward. So yeah, time travel is totally possible.

[grimfang999]

that point has alreay been brought up and we are talking about aside from the inevitable constant movement of time

[DarkWarrior]

I'm busy procrastinating on homework, so don't mind that I've skipped over the previous responses and give my take on it:

Time has yet to be truly defined. What we perceive as time is an abstract concept that we are trying to tack words onto. Now, is time a physical manifestation? Quite possibly. The theory that wormholes and black holes exist and cause rifts in space-time would seem to suggest that. You can't rip apart something that's not there, right? Now, take this as you will (this is purely conjecture, this isn't fact, I'm just following a train of thought. You can board or leave as you please), but I would think that, on some level, that would imply a "barrier" of sorts. As there is a sound barrier, I believe it's quite possible there is a light barrier and a time barrier.
Now, assuming the previous. We have broken the sound barrier. Next would eventually be the light barrier. After that, the time barrier. What happens when we break any of those? Your guess is as good as mine. Breaking the sound barrier causes supersonic blasts. It's quite possible that going through time would have a similar effect on time itself. A massive burst that is quite powerful, but limited to the size of whatever it is that broke its barrier. That would have an effect on those in that time period, but what is anyone's guess.
Now, let's assume someone did, in fact, break the time barrier. They are then moving faster than time. Meaning they're headed toward the future. What happens then? Well, I'd assume that they'd probably end up in an empty void until time caught up with them. This would mean that they'd be effectively "out" of time. What happens then? Your guess is as good as mine.
Now, we've covered going faster. What of going slower? I think the answer lies in suspended animation. The issue is what would happen if someone succeeded in going slower than time. What happens then? Especially given that whatever was powering them is now in the effective future, it's hard to really tell.
It's also entirely possible that there are many different "walls" to time, and we're in one of them. Transferring to another could indeed result in the displacement of a person out of time, but into another time, having unknown effects across the multiverse.

But this is all purely conjecture done at 10 PM in a vain effort to procrastinate on homework and has no basis in reality, save by coincidence. But maybe it'll add something to the current discussion? Who knows.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Ok im a christian and sometimes I like to think outside of the box
Ill make these short cause I hate reading long posts so i dont want to do the same to anyone else.

Point #1- A time machine is possible if you has 4 glass mirrors cut perfectly and bent at just the right angle. And if you fired a beam of light at the mirror the light would begin to circle the mirrors thus making what we would call a time machine. The flaws are that we cant make a perfect mirror and we cant make the mirrors reflect perfectly.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

point #2- Per say we were able to travel through time according to scientist we would only be able to travel back to the date the time machine was made or the loop in time first appeared and then on. So per say we make a time machine today. 10 days later we go in it. Without control of the machine we would only be able to go back the ten days because that was when the time machine was first built.

think of it like walking with a rope. That rope will follow you wherever you go. If you walk in a circle and you backtrack that rope. It will take you back in a circle. It wont take you in a square or a rectangle. The same with the machine. It will take you wherever the machine was is and etc. Theres more concepts to it though. Im not a rocket scientist so im just talking what I hear not what Ive studied all my life

[Ishikawa Oshro]

and an intresting fact ^_^

About a some years ago (dont remember the exact date if any of yous watch the news or keep up with the newspaper you may have seen an article of a man who flew around the world in a jet. The man flew around the world numerous times through his life going threw different time zones. The man was in his 30+ years. But they said due to him passing threw time zones and what not it looked like the man had barely aged at all.

Passing threw time barriers? Or just flying I dunno.

[HolyShadow]

and an intresting fact ^_^

About a some years ago (dont remember the exact date if any of yous watch the news or keep up with the newspaper you may have seen an article of a man who flew around the world in a jet. The man flew around the world numerous times through his life going threw different time zones. The man was in his 30+ years. But they said due to him passing threw time zones and what not it looked like the man had barely aged at all.

Passing threw time barriers? Or just flying I dunno.
That would have nothing to do with anything, and the man either had plastic surgery or simply didn't really look that different.

Also, C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER! (The real reason why I posted)

[Ishikawa Oshro]

That would have nothing to do with anything, and the man either had plastic surgery or simply didn't really look that different.

Also, C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER! (The real reason why I posted)

hahahaha

[grimfang999]

right lets get down to budiness:

DW: logic has shown you a point. like the sound barrier it would release an explosion of sorts. light would probebly be some sort of extreme light, perhaps with the power of a supernove, miniture or the same size. time could shatter the whole of existance, thus its too much of a risk.

@ishikawa:
point 1: another issue with just four mirrors and a light beam, it would have to also be an extremely intense and focused beam of light for it to actually happen, with a continuous stream of light in, since it would just bounce about for a while with no actualy build up of energy

point 2: they say that, but then as soon as they finish a copy of themselves would appear. and so if that doesnt happen, time travel even to the point of time traveling machine creation is impossabe unless pre-destined.

your fact: zones does not mean anything. in a technical term earth is all in one time, but for the sake of convinience we have devided it into time zones to avoid confusion. thinkl about it, if it was all done in GMT, the clock in America would say say 1AM while the sun is just setting, consider how confusing that would be for tourests

my warning, while i dont want to sound mean, you shouldnt multipost, since it is not actually allowed on the forums. just for a future reference try to limit it to one or two posts.

[Fat1Fared]

I'm busy procrastinating on homework, so don't mind that I've skipped over the previous responses and give my take on it:

Time has yet to be truly defined. What we perceive as time is an abstract concept that we are trying to tack words onto. Now, is time a physical manifestation? Quite possibly. The theory that wormholes and black holes exist and cause rifts in space-time would seem to suggest that. You can't rip apart something that's not there, right? Now, take this as you will (this is purely conjecture, this isn't fact, I'm just following a train of thought. You can board or leave as you please), but I would think that, on some level, that would imply a "barrier" of sorts. As there is a sound barrier, I believe it's quite possible there is a light barrier and a time barrier.
Now, assuming the previous. We have broken the sound barrier. Next would eventually be the light barrier. After that, the time barrier. What happens when we break any of those? Your guess is as good as mine. Breaking the sound barrier causes supersonic blasts. It's quite possible that going through time would have a similar effect on time itself. A massive burst that is quite powerful, but limited to the size of whatever it is that broke its barrier. That would have an effect on those in that time period, but what is anyone's guess.
Now, let's assume someone did, in fact, break the time barrier. They are then moving faster than time. Meaning they're headed toward the future. What happens then? Well, I'd assume that they'd probably end up in an empty void until time caught up with them. This would mean that they'd be effectively "out" of time. What happens then? Your guess is as good as mine.
Now, we've covered going faster. What of going slower? I think the answer lies in suspended animation. The issue is what would happen if someone succeeded in going slower than time. What happens then? Especially given that whatever was powering them is now in the effective future, it's hard to really tell.
It's also entirely possible that there are many different "walls" to time, and we're in one of them. Transferring to another could indeed result in the displacement of a person out of time, but into another time, having unknown effects across the multiverse.

But this is all purely conjecture done at 10 PM in a vain effort to procrastinate on homework and has no basis in reality, save by coincidence. But maybe it'll add something to the current discussion? Who knows.

Well, again this goes back to my point that we need to answer question, is time a state of mind or infact something more. Until we find/prove that there is something behind time, we cannot jump through it, as doing things such your example of breaking sound barrier, takes the Manipulation of the thing your breaking, and so if nothing to manipulate, cannot do it.

However if we do prove there is a force behind time, then your reasoning has some logic to it

Ishikawa Oshro, though I like that your thinking of live examples have to disagree with all three

Point #1- A time machine is possible if you has 4 glass mirrors cut perfectly and bent at just the right angle. And if you fired a beam of light at the mirror the light would begin to circle the mirrors thus making what we would call a time machine. The flaws are that we cant make a perfect mirror and we cant make the mirrors reflect perfectly.

this would not be a time machine, it would be the blending of light, to remove sight from a part of earth, so in short, it is a basic verison of what is called, a Telisira Coil (that is spelt wrong) however, I believe that your on about here is, an event in which the USA's navry made a massive T coil, and used it on a ship, with very strange and Seemingly disastrous, in which reports say ship left this Dimension, however I am just guessing here, and personally not sure if this story is true, as reports around whole thing are restricted, meaning most of them, just come from Conspiracy theorists, however if it is true, then yes the results of that show blending light in ways, it shouldn't blend, could have interesting results, though not sure if time travel is one of them

point #2- Per say we were able to travel through time according to scientist we would only be able to travel back to the date the time machine was made or the loop in time first appeared and then on. So per say we make a time machine today. 10 days later we go in it. Without control of the machine we would only be able to go back the ten days because that was when the time machine was first built.

think of it like walking with a rope. That rope will follow you wherever you go. If you walk in a circle and you backtrack that rope. It will take you back in a circle. It wont take you in a square or a rectangle. The same with the machine. It will take you wherever the machine was is and etc. Theres more concepts to it though. Im not a rocket scientist so im just talking what I hear not what Ive studied all my life

This is recording theory, that the time machine didn't exist before it was made, so how can it manipulate itself to that point, if it works on feezing a point in time and space and then somehow jumps there, it jump forward and could go back to where started as these are all points, it can freeze and achor itself to, however time before it, cannot be freezon by it, as already gone. However if this is true or not, is above me (PS Grim, like I said to you, when we started this, destriny, has nothing to do with it, as even if go past that point, if everything is preset, then our lives are nothing more than a book, for something to read, (which I will not accept) it still takes something, manipulating us, to make that destriny, so then it isn't destriny in truth, just another setting events in some way or another. Finally, we ether will make it or won't nothing but working out these questions can anwser that

and an intresting fact ^_^

About a some years ago (dont remember the exact date if any of yous watch the news or keep up with the newspaper you may have seen an article of a man who flew around the world in a jet. The man flew around the world numerous times through his life going threw different time zones. The man was in his 30+ years. But they said due to him passing threw time zones and what not it looked like the man had barely aged at all.

Passing threw time barriers? Or just flying I dunno.

Well, this was interesting thing, but think more fluke of nature than time travel, as Time Zones, are simply part of the state of mind time, which is man made.

To understand this, need to realise that when we say it is 1'0 clock AM, it isn't really 1'0 Clock AM, in time and space, that is just a label we gave it, so we could order our lives more

[grimfang999]

(PS Grim, like I said to you, when we started this, destriny, has nothing to do with it, as even if go past that point, if everything is preset, then our lives are nothing more than a book, for something to read, (which I will not accept) it still takes something, manipulating us, to make that destriny, so then it isn't destriny in truth, just another setting events in some way or another. Finally, we ether will make it or won't nothing but working out these questions can anwser that


listen look at this like this, you go somewhere in time where your not supposed to be, more matter exists and thus something else may happen. when you go back in time you shall appear there since people and animals can see you. now think of this, if you can be seen by people, but your existance will branch off a new reality which you are not in, how could you go back in time to be seen or do anything in that time when if you went back to that time you would disappear? even if you didnt disappear you may have had different thoughts and never had built the time machine to go back. with this in mind, you would have had to go back to that time in a future time zone in order to be able to go back in the present, if you consider every second/fragment of a second/millionth of a second a seperate time zone, which they would have to be if time travel is possable. destiny has to exist if time travel does

second i dont understand why people hate the idea that everything is predestined, you still have free choice, but it just means you were meant to pick that choice from when that was arranged. you could call it a unknowing willingness, you follow your destiny unconciously. if you are accepting there is a slight possability time travel is possable, then you must also admit destiny is possable is time travel is possable, no matter how small the chance

[grimfang999]

Grim, you don't know what the effect of time travel would be, and whether you would disappear.....etc, that is just you guessing,

and that still isn't destriny, that is you changing past, to change your future, there is big difference

And even if is some higher form of life controlling our actions, that isn't destriny, that is us being manipulated, to make life go in one way, and if see them as higher being, what made them make life go in this one way>>>>>>>>

As for hating idea of destriny, well if life is preset, it becomes nothing more than a story or book and means no matter what I do, the end result will be same, which takes away all fun and meaning of doing it in first place, I like the to think my succuss and failure is MINE


...

you actually didnt uderstand my point. i actually said if you were in the past at some point but still here in this point in time as well, that would mean your future self will have to have gone to the past as a part of your destiny. and when you said changing your past to change yuour future, i didnt link that with destiny. i said that if you were not meant to be there, meaning there is no destiny and you went back, you would have changed yourself to either not exist of have even slightly different thoughts which would actually lead to you not creating the machine and being able to go back in time to change it. thus aparadox is formed.

and of course im guessing, i cannot prove anything, neither can i or we as the human race actually prove something. we just have to think up possabilities. and all im saying is if you were in the past but also in the present your future self would be one one in thwe past, thus showing if that does happen destiny or something like it is there.

since when did i bvring a higher being into it, i said something like destiny, not a higher being

finally, who says your suesses and failures are not still yours? they are yours and we ment to be your and always will be, nothing can change that. destiny only means you were meant to have those sucesses or failures at that time. and i dont understand how it takes the fun out of life, if it is fated for that time is the time for you to have fun. the journey is still there and so what if the end result will be the same? look at me im not depressed, mnore that anything it brings easier acceptence of the things which happen to you.

[Fat1Fared]

grim, when use the destiny, you are talking about the predetermined setting of your life, which will need to something to set it, like a higher being, now I think what your saying is:-

If you go into your past, then your past self will have to go into his past at some point, and being that is set it will be destiny, but this is like putting 2+2=5, one just because you go into past, doesn't mean your past self will as well, anything (including you) could stop him going into past and it isn't destiny, as it is still you, doing it, not some outer thing controlling you to do it

[grimfang999]

well you could stop him from going to the past, but that would make you never go back to tell him, thus the paradox is formed. you cannot interfere with the past unless you are ment to. ever watched the doctor who episode "fathers day"? rose interfered with a major part of history and the world was then being destroyed. while this is not my complete point and goes in a different direction, it still shows you cannot interfere.

now perhaps something has to set destiny, perhaps, but then destiny would have to lead that being to create destiny, so destiny rules over that to thus he/she/it cannot create destiny, it is already there and always will be, unless it exists out of destiny and time itself, such as it might be god and destiny is his watch over the universe.

i might as well make a topic saying if destiny exist also

[Fat1Fared]

Grim, you can interfere all like, just no one would know, as for paradox, true there is chance of that happening if we go on the one striaght timeline theory, however even with this, just as much chance, that we would merely creatre a small splite for of 2 lines, one for his future and other for your past, or if paradox did happen there would be end result, just lot less chance of it being one who wantded

[grimfang999]

yeah interfere all you like since you would disappear in a split second and nobody would because trhey all are wiped off of existance.

and yes, there is a chance of a split timeline, but that would be dividing the universe into two different dimensions. considering that the whole universe has to be cloned and moved from the point which is changed. and if there is a limited mass in the universe universe (as in a universe of universes) then that new form of mass will disrupt the other dimensions.

however this doesnt mean that other dimensions/universes with different outcomes does not exist. even with destiny, that doppleganger of me, lets say, was destined to do that different action

[Spoofs3]

In an infinite expanding universe, Anything is possible.
Nothing is imposable, Things are only very improbable.
There can be a few ways to break the laws of time and space.
People cannot rule out one thing just because it seems unlikely, Because although it may not be able to be controlled, THings may still happen by fluke of the universe, but i believe it is still possible due to the I never really believe ANYTHING is impossible due to flukes of nature, or advancement of tech, or both at the same time

[grimfang999]

i agree, normally i say nothing is impossable, but there are some things which coudl destroy everythoing and we better now risk, say as time travel.