Are (US) Americans Dumb?

[JSwiggz]

...

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Well they say americans are fast food people.
Just like our food we want it here and now.
Americans arent taught patience,manners,and a slew of other things other countrys teach in the schools.
And speaking of schools. they basically jokes. Only the ones who truly focus really get any knowledge. But even thats limited by the constant classroom disruptions and teachers refusing to teach until a certain student does something.
Theres just not enough disipline in america. Yea our schools still produce some smart bunches(just look at N.A.S.A * dreamy sigh*) but its not enough to counter how many ummmmm un-educated people we produce.
Drop out rates are getting higher because no one realizes the important of good education.

And technically it's true england settlers founded americans but they were quite distuinguished. If you look up the reasons the puritans came to america you'd see that their beliefs were different pertaining to GOD and how a city should be ruled. And we did cut ourselves off from them *mhm* and establish a new constituion. So even though their our ancestoral birth country their oppinions and system and code of life differ from our own.
Plus their school system is probably run different than our own.
(an england main landers out there O.O)

So id say no (we) americans are not dumb. I refuse to put myself in with the major populas -_-(sadly im probably already included in it though T_T)

Maby we should make a secret american society for the highly intelligent with the reborn edison and franklin as our CO-leaders ^_^

[xsinvurt]

You can reference the roots of this topic here: http://forum.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/showthread.php?t=4740&page=4

So I saw this post from someone wondering how people can NOT know where Wales is, but that it is particularly Americans who wouldn't know. This made me think about how many times I have heard people from other countries express their sentiments of Americans as generally dumb people.

:( I did not mean to offend.

and its not all Americans its only a handful like when i was in New York Last year whenever i said i was from Wales they all knew where it was :) its just the odd American that does not know like G.W.Bush i heard he meet Charlotte Church (Welsh Singer) and this is what they said to each other

G.W.Bush : where are you from?
Charlotte Church : Wales
G.W.Bush : what State is that in?

:mad: what state is that in you are a Ex-President of the USA how can you not know Wales is a Country in the U.K :squintyface:

[MrsSallyBakura]

Well, why should we expect foreigners to know all 50 states?

In that same topic, Fat1Fared didn't know that Michigan was a state. That doesn't make him dumb; it's not his fault that he didn't know.

[xsinvurt]

Well, why should we expect foreigners to know all 50 states?

In that same topic, Fat1Fared didn't know that Michigan was a state. That doesn't make him dumb; it's not his fault that he didn't know.

Right but Wales is a Country a Country that is Allies with America not the same thing if someone said to me i am from America you would not expect me to go what City in the U.k is that in:squintyface:

[Skarphedin]

:mad: what state is that in you are a Ex-President of the USA how can you not know Wales is a Country in the U.K :squintyface:
It's probably alright if you live in Wisconsin, New York, Utah, North Dakota, Michigan, Maine, or Alaska. :rolleyes:

[HolyShadow]

Before you call someone else dumb, draw a map of the entire world, including every single lake, river, ocean, oil rig, glacier, city, town, uncharted community, state, country, territory, continent, nicknames for everything I've said, sports teams for everything I said, every rename that has ever gone on in history, and the lost city of Atlantis's previous position, then provide a detailed map of how each and every part would fit into Pangaea, all from memory.

[TPishek]

Right but Wales is a Country a Country that is Allies with America not the same thing if someone said to me i am from America you would not expect me to go what City in the U.k is that in

Well, Wales is part of Great Britain though.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Right but Wales is a Country a Country that is Allies with America not the same thing if someone said to me i am from America you would not expect me to go what City in the U.k is that in:squintyface:

True, but Wales isn't very often talked about in American schools as an individual country. It's usually grouped with "Great Britain." I know personally what people are talking about when they say Wales, but that's because I took a Shakespeare class in high school and there are Welsh people in some of his plays.

EDIT: Ninja'd by TPishek about the Great Britain thing.

[xsinvurt]

Before you call someone else dumb

I never called anyone Dumb :thatface: not even G.W.Bush lol maybe you should read my posts i was stating a Fact that alot of Americans I know never knew where Wales was or was even a Country. I never called anyone dumb that was JSwiggz who asked if Americans are dumb.

[HolyShadow]

:( I did not mean to offend.

and its not all Americans its only a handful like when i was in New York Last year whenever i said i was from Wales they all knew where it was :) its just the odd American that does not know like G.W.Bush i heard he meet Charlotte Church (Welsh Singer) and this is what they said to each other

G.W.Bush : where are you from?
Charlotte Church : Wales
G.W.Bush : what State is that in?

:mad: what state is that in you are a Ex-President of the USA how can you not know Wales is a Country in the U.K :squintyface:
Rewrite this to be more clear. Are you calling us dumb or not? It sounds like you're calling that "Handful of Americans" dumb.

Personally, I'm horrible with geography. I can't even really name the capital of the state I'm currently in. Geography and languages tear me apart. I'm great at everything else, though.

[Spoofs3]

i do not think you are dumb.... You have the potential to be smart, But the system, is messed up (gods... What system isn't?)
The American educational system I've heard isn't that good, but then again, Apparantly the Irish one is one of the best in the world and I think it sucks... Maybe I am just stupid....
Either way, Can't blame the people due to the system

[OverMind]

Mmm, I'm going to have to say yes, even though:

a. I've never met any Americans in real life.
b. I've never actually been to America.
c. The few Americans I have seen on television fully represent a broad cross-section of the diversity in American society.
d. ^ And they're stupid, meaning all Americans are stupid.

America Bashing: Because we sure as hell have nothing else to write in our blogs.

[maisetofan]

Well, why should we expect foreigners to know all 50 states?

In that same topic, Fat1Fared didn't know that Michigan was a state. That doesn't make him dumb; it's not his fault that he didn't know.

actually i do know the fifty states of america and the presidents, including the wars that raged, the civil rights movement both kennedy assassinations, george Wallis being shot, clintons thing, but everyone knows that lolz so i would say it seems that alot of people from america believe that america is better than the rest of the world....

I mean that girl in the beauty pageant "the iraq"
Closing point

[HolyShadow]

actually i do know the fifty states of america and the presidents, including the wars that raged, the civil rights movement both kennedy assassinations, george Wallis being shot, clintons thing, but everyone knows that lolz so i would say it seems that alot of people from america believe that america is better than the rest of the world....

I mean that girl in the beauty pageant "the iraq"
Closing point
Name the capitals. Even better, name every single planet, meteor, moon, and star ever discovered.

[OverMind]

Name the capitals. Even better, name every single planet, meteor, moon, and star ever discovered.

Don't you wish there was a <sarcasm> or <rhetorical question> button in these forums?

[HolyShadow]

Don't you wish there was a <sarcasm> or <rhetorical question> button in these forums?
It's half sarcasm, half serious, just like most of what I say. My reasons hold merit. They're just very clearly outlandish.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

You know for a stupid nation America is......
There one of the worlds biggest powerhouse if not the worlds strongest O.O
Imagine that. And they said stupid people could never stand on top!
lolz

[MrsSallyBakura]

I don't think America got there because it's considered stupid... I'm fairly sure it got there after WWII, beating the Axis and all that. Ever since then it's been regarded as the world's police force who solves everyone's problems. This isn't pure fact, but perhaps America got "stupid" progressively after discovering how much power we have over the world.

[Orga777]

....I feel insulted really. How about this, maybe Americans aren't all intelligent. Maybe a lot are ignorant of the world around them. I won't argue that point because that is true in most cases. But can anyone name me ONE other nation more generous than the Untied States of America when it comes to the people? I sure can't. The United States of America gives more money to charity than any other nation on the god damn planet. And not just our Government, but everyday people in general. NO other nation is even close to the US in that regard. Proof?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/233106/america_the_most_charitable_nation.html

Also, we have the hardest working people in the world. We always have, and we still are. No other nation works as hard as the workers in the US. Also, where would the world be without the United States innovation of years past? Have we gotten away from it recently? Sure have, but that is mostly because the government is practically chasing American business away with the second highest business tax on the planet, taking innovators with them.

If anything, people just need to turn off the Reality TV and pay more attention to the world around them (like I do.) Most Anti-American sentiment around the world is unjust and down right... annoying putting it lightly.
:mad:

[maisetofan]

I don't think America got there because it's considered stupid... I'm fairly sure it got there after WWII, beating the Axis and all that. Ever since then it's been regarded as the world's police force who solves everyone's problems. This isn't pure fact, but perhaps America got "stupid" progressively after discovering how much power we have over the world.

yeah even though they only joined after pearl harbor was attacked, meanwhile, England, Australia and New Zealand were getting slaughtered, thank you Roosevelt for that and yes i have read about Winston churchill and Roosevelt's conversations and how churchill pleaded with The president to join forces against the nazi's, he still held back , he did not want america to but into the war which is funny considering the korean and vietnam war of which they went head first into. all that unnecessary bloodshed..

I think america has alot of good points to it as well and holy shadow do you have to be such a douche? seriously!! Banter between countries is always going to exist, look at the way people speak of the irish? New zealand and Australia diss each other constantly, america and canada etc

[Spoofs3]

/america_the_most_charitable_nation.html[/url]

Also, we have the hardest working people in the world. We always have, and we still are. No other nation works as hard as the workers in the US. Also, where would the world be without the United States innovation of years past? Have we gotten away from it recently? Sure have, but that is mostly because the government is practically chasing American business away with the second highest business tax on the planet, taking innovators with them.

If anything, people just need to turn off the Reality TV and pay more attention to the world around them (like I do.) Most Anti-American sentiment around the world is unjust and down right... annoying putting it lightly.
:mad:

I agree with the kind thing, But hardest working?
I would not agree...
The hardest working nations are amazingly the ones... Who are poorest
And why?
Because they have to work hard, Or death...
Don't flatter yourself, You are NOT the hardest working... settle with the kind part

And as for Anti-American Sentiment, You have just ben unlucky with the last few presidents....
ANd educational schemes...

[MrsSallyBakura]

yeah even though they only joined after pearl harbor was attacked, meanwhile, England, Australia and New Zealand were getting slaughtered, thank you Roosevelt for that and yes i have read about Winston churchill and Roosevelt's conversations and how churchill pleaded with The president to join forces against the nazi's, he still held back , he did not want america to but into the war which is funny considering the korean and vietnam war of which they went head first into. all that unnecessary bloodshed..

Well, Roosevelt is dead so no use bashing him, really. I wasn't trying to say that America was the greatest or whatever in my post, I was just stating what I know about how America got to be the greatest powerhouse while still being considered "stupid." I never said that it was fair or right. I don't know whether it was or not.

I think america has alot of good points to it as well and holy shadow do you have to be such a douche? seriously!! Banter between countries is always going to exist, look at the way people speak of the irish? New zealand and Australia diss each other constantly, america and canada etc

In Holy Shadow's defense, he makes a legit point, in that there is ignorance everywhere and you can't call people dumb for not knowing something just because the system doesn't work to provide a universal knowledge base for history and geography.

As for bantering between countries, I make fun of Canada all the time, but I do it light-heartedly. I don't really have anything against Canada.

Really people, it's individuals who are "dumb," not entire countries.
And even individuals who are "dumb" have their place and talents in the world.

[Orga777]

I agree with the kind thing, But hardest working?
I would not agree...
The hardest working nations are amazingly the ones... Who are poorest
And why?
Because they have to work hard, Or death...
Don't flatter yourself, You are NOT the hardest working... settle with the kind part

Well, I meant of the developed nations. My bad for not clarifying. Because I would agree with you on that point fully.

And as for Anti-American Sentiment, You have just ben unlucky with the last few presidents....
ANd educational schemes...

Meh. I won't argue. It has been a while since we had a truely good president. And I still won't argue the education aspect. But I am not sure if that is the fault of anyone but horrid teaching and bad parenting...

[Cocyta]

Yeah, even though they only joined after Pearl Harbor was attacked, meanwhile, England, Australia and New Zealand were getting slaughtered. Thank you, Roosevelt for that, and yes, I have read about Winston Churchill and Roosevelt's conversations and how Churchill pleaded with the president to join forces against the Nazis, he still held back; he did not want America to butt into the war, which is funny considering the Korean and Vietnam wars of which they went head-first into... all that unnecessary bloodshed...

Yes, if we stayed out of WWII, the United States wouldn't have become a real world power and started screwing around with other countries like our presidents have been doing ever since... of course, there was also the whole idiotic desire for the U.S. to spread from the Atlantic to the Pacific oceans. :rolleyes: That ended up with a couple of wars and the decimation of more Native American tribes.

On the other hand, human nature in general has issues with greed and pride. Civilizations have always been messing with and conquering each other, and I seriously doubt that will ever end. These aren't problems in just people from the United States. These are problems in people from all nations and times.

[Spoofs3]

yeah even though they only joined after pearl harbor was attacked, meanwhile, England, Australia and New Zealand were getting slaughtered, thank you Roosevelt for that and yes i have read about Winston churchill and Roosevelt's conversations and how churchill pleaded with The president to join forces against the nazi's, he still held back , he did not want america to but into the war which is funny considering the korean and vietnam war of which they went head first into. all that unnecessary bloodshed..



Emmm, Statement! I believe even without the Americans they would have won
1. England was NOT getting destroyed, Germany COULD have destroyed them, But didn't as when they went in for the kill.... they switched plan...
No thanks to the US but thansk to luck...
This made England survive...

2. Russia: Once again luck.... And Germany being idiots... Trying to invade during the winter...

As you can see, The Allies were not really getting slaughtered, But were only on the defensive side, They were not gaining any land, But were eqaully on the case of England, New Zealand, Australlia and Canada... Not losing land...
So not really getting Slaughtered as Germans lost men at a rate of.... I believe (Correct me if I am wrong) 3:1...
Get your facts straight before praising America...

[Fat1Fared]

Well, why should we expect foreigners to know all 50 states?

In that same topic, Fat1Fared didn't know that Michigan was a state. That doesn't make him dumb; it's not his fault that he didn't know.

hold on here sally, I do know Michigan is a state and never said it wasn't, my mistake was getting the terms, commonwealth and provenience mixed up,

As for this, wow he actually made thread, I will bother to put something tomorrow:-(F))K IT

yeah even though they only joined after pearl harbor was attacked, meanwhile, England, Australia and New Zealand were getting slaughtered, thank you Roosevelt for that and yes i have read about Winston churchill and Roosevelt's conversations and how churchill pleaded with The president to join forces against the nazi's, he still held back , he did not want america to but into the war which is funny considering the korean and vietnam war of which they went head first into. all that unnecessary bloodshed..

I am actually going to defend US here, there was lot more to this than just Proud and Honor boud Churchill fighting the evil Roosevelt, Roosevelt, gave Britain the economic muscle before WW2, to actually fight in first place and he wanted to join us from start, however he was following the general feeling of his nation and, they didn't want to get involved in another European war.

Mai, the easy views we are tort in school are never full story:-

-Hitler didn't want war with Britain,
-Chamberlain was the real hero of WW2, as if we had gone to war from, start we would have lost, but he held out, until we were strong enough to fight and has been held in history as one worlds biggest failures for it
-Winning without USA would have been possible, but very close thing as their ecomoic power and man power was far greater than our own (though we DID win WW1 without USA, that was over by time they showed up lol)

With few WW2 rumors out way, generally, I don't think Americans are dumb, and though yes they will have dumb people, so does every country, most British people have never heard of Alexander The Great (who I knew when I was 6) and we only have 75% pass rate at GCSE (end of normal school age 16) which when you only need to past 5 out of 10(12) at level C, to gain pass and they are unbelievably easy to do, this is bloody scary

The problem for Americans is one they have leaders who have habit of annoying the rest of world and like with all groups, the most loud and noticeable members are usually the dumbest, which of course then plays up to sterotpyre they have been given as dumb poeple

Also, we have the hardest working people in the world. We always have, and we still are. No other nation works as hard as the workers in the US. Also, where would the world be without the United States innovation of years past? Have we gotten away from it recently? Sure have, but that is mostly because the government is practically chasing American business away with the second highest business tax on the planet, taking innovators with them.

Clearly you have never seen Chinese workers mate

[Cocyta]

Spoofs, MaiSetoFan wasn't praising the U.S. for "saving" the world from the Nazis. MSF was talking about how Roosevelt was trying to stay out of WWII, while later presidents threw us into Korea and Vietnam.

As for whether or not the Allies could have won the war without the United States, well, perhaps they could have. Hitler certainly had begun to make tactical errors in his part of the war. If he continued to blunder, the Allies would have probably been able to turn the tide in their favor. The rest would depend on how things went against Italy and Japan, the two other major players in the Axis.

[Orga777]

Emmm, Statement! I believe even without the Americans they would have won
1. England was NOT getting destroyed, Germany COULD have destroyed them, But didn't as when they went in for the kill.... they switched plan...
No thanks to the US but thansk to luck...
This made England survive...

Right. They may have still won... But problem, even if they did, who would have stopped the advancing Soviet army who took over half of Germany and only stopped because the US met them half way? The totally exhausted England with lack of resources? France? Yeah... right... The Allies would have had issues (and would have been steam rolled) dealing with an invading Red Army that I don't think Stalin had ANY intention of stopping.

Also, even before the US entered the war, we were supplying England and the other Allies with resources they didn't have. And when we did enter, we saved more British and Allied lives by giving them extra bodies to end the war faster. If we didn't enter when we did, they would have been fighting much longer than when the war ended. Because Germany may have been losing steam, they still controlled most of Europe and had enough resources to keep the war going for at least another five to ten years without the US stepping in and canning it faster. How many more lives would that have been I wonder...

Also, we were not in only Europe, we also had successful campaigns in the Pacific and Africa. Much more spread out than the rest of the Allies. Especially since the US was the only one fighting in the Pacific for the most part. Heck, if Japan met up with Germany at any point at all, and the US never entered the war, I wonder how well everyone would have handled that... the only reason Japan couldn't do much to help was because the US was systematically wiping out every single resource Japan had with bombing raids and other campaigns.

Clearly you have never seen Chinese workers mate

China is considered a Developing Nation, not a Developed Nation. ;)

[maisetofan]

Spoofs, MaiSetoFan wasn't praising the U.S. for "saving" the world from the Nazis. MSF was talking about how Roosevelt was trying to stay out of WWII, while later presidents threw us into Korea and Vietnam.

As for whether or not the Allies could have won the war without the United States, well, perhaps they could have. Hitler certainly had begun to make tactical errors in his part of the war. If he continued to blunder, the Allies would have probably been able to turn the tide in their favor. The rest would depend on how things went against Italy and Japan, the two other major players in the Axis.

yup thank you :) that is exactly what i meant.
and since alot and i mean alot of americans fought over in japan, not saying they all did, had america not entered, the english could have won the war with the aid of russia, europe and australia and N.Z, although alot of people have never heard of New Zealand over in the USA :eek:

in the words of denny crane
"We are the super power of the world"
"dont make us add you to our AXIS" LOLOLOL

[Fat1Fared]

China is considered a Developing Nation, not a Developed Nation.

And you wonder why you get the criticisms you do ;)

PS ok if going to be padantic, what about Japan or is that too low for your mighty notice, (apart from being the richest county in world,) if you took the likes of China seriously, you may have stopped them over taking you as ecomonic super power :rolleyes:

[DarthWario]

I wouldn't say Americans, as a whole, are dumb. There are several cases of idiocy, but every country has that.

Its just that America is a large country and so this occurance happens with greater frequency.

And the varying level of education from state to state.

[xsinvurt]

Rewrite this to be more clear. Are you calling us dumb or not? It sounds like you're calling that "Handful of Americans" dumb.

Personally, I'm horrible with geography. I can't even really name the capital of the state I'm currently in. Geography and languages tear me apart. I'm great at everything else, though.

I never called anyone dumb just saying that alot of Americans don't know where Wales is but i do know a few who do know where it is. just saying most the people who don't know where wales is are from America just Repeating the facts.

[Skarphedin]

And you wonder why you get the criticisms you do ;)

PS ok if going to be padantic, what about Japan or is that too low for your mighty notice, (apart from being the richest county in world,) if you took the likes of China seriously, you may have stopped them over taking you as ecomonic super power :rolleyes:
No, he's right, China is listed as a developing country by the IMF, classified as a newly industrialized country. Japan is classified as developed. Also, our economy is still more than four times larger than China or Japan's, and nearly as large as the entirety of the EU combined, so I wouldn't say China's overtaken us yet as an economic superpower(though they are wielding considerably more influence recently). Their rate of growth is fairly high though, so it's more or less inevitable that they'll pass us in a couple years, provided they can fix some of their prevailing issues and if their rate of growth doesn't slow down. Also, this is totally off topic.

[Orga777]

Mate, the IMF, call China developing because it doesn't want to admit a self-claimed Communist Country is now a real super-power with an industry to be feared, I may not like all of China's policies, but I am not so arrogant, that I don't realise it is now a real devolved county with real world status and power. To be honest, do you think they care if IMP or anyone else calls them underdeveloped, all us western countries still use their work forces and industrial might, making them very very powerful.

China is still well behind the rest of the Developed Nations when it comes to the country being built up fully. I don't deny their influence, but overall, the country is not quite developed as the West is. Look at the standards of living and more people in the West has better standards than those in China. No if, and, or buts.

-and though in terms of Ecomoncy, you may be bigger than japan, but you ain't richer and won't be for even an ecomonicly stronger for long, and you know why that is, I don't know if your leaders saw fit to tell you or not, but it is because Japan is borrowing Billions to you, every year to keep your country running, and you are now in massive debt to them, which means when you need to pay them back, it is going to be hard times for you-

Problem. Japan relies on the United States to stay afloat itself. If we totally collapse economically, do you know who is coming with us? Japan. Why? Because Japan is the largest producers of technology in the world. The United States makes up the largest market of buyers for their electronics and cars. If we collapse, Japan goes bankrupt as well because the largest buyer of their goods is GONE. And since Japan has to rely on exports for most of their food, they will be even worse than teh USA because at least the USA still has a large producing grain market. So they need us as much as we need them. We have been connected at the hip since the end of World War II.

And sorry, the United States is the worlds largest Economy. Japan is second though.

EDIT: I saw this about a year ago, and the old story was taken off Yahoo for being too old, but here is the artical reposted on another site:
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20080203213352787

What is that world about the US having dumb people? I wonder where we got it from? ;)

[Fat1Fared]

China is still well behind the rest of the Developed Nations when it comes to the country being built up fully. I don't deny their influence, but overall, the country is not quite developed as the West is. Look at the standards of living and more people in the West has better standards than those in China. No if, and, or buts.

Sorry mate big BUT coming up, they are not behind western world in terms of ecomonic..etc might, however yes there is social problems, however that isn't being it is delovopling nation, that is because they choose to treat their workers like S((T, not because have too

Problem. Japan relies on the United States to stay afloat itself. If we totally collapse economically, do you know who is coming with us? Japan. Why? Because Japan is the largest producers of technology in the world. The United States makes up the largest market of buyers for their electronics and cars. If we collapse, Japan goes bankrupt as well because the largest buyer of their goods is GONE. And since Japan has to rely on exports for most of their food, they will be even worse than teh USA because at least the USA still has a large producing grain market. So they need us as much as we need them. We have been connected at the hip since the end of World War II.

This is another problem Americans have which makes people think their stupid, when their not, I mean tectically, you have a point, but you could say this about any county in world, it would hit them hard, hell ecomonic problems in USA have hit world hard and if USA fell off ecomonic map, it wouldn't be just Japan, it would be everyone who is screwed (as for food sources, well that is something which take too long to go into here, but it is lot more complex than you give it credit for)

When America sneezes, rest of world catches a cold

However, that is a BIG IF question, and not anything to do with what I am on about here, I am on about current ecomonic affairs,

Currently USA have best ecomony for trading in, but this doesn't mean it is richest county or trades most out, in terms of GDP, techinoally Luxembourg and Norway are richer than USA and Ireland is only just behind it

And in terms of Plain money, Japan is a richer than USA and has every high out trade. The USA is having to use them to keep themselves afloat, in same way, Britain did with USA during WW2 and in that same way, it is not going to be good for you,

And you still haven't answered my question about japanese, who I think I have proved are on level enough to be allowed in your DEVOPELVED nation test and so in this question
-do you consider Americans harder working than Japanese, (who on average work 7am-9pm)

Mate, read my first post, I said Americans were not dumb, I was merely stating, that you have sometimes have an arrogance and really please look at webpage your using, have you never heard saying, Lies, Damned Lies and Statistic's, it says a quarter of Britain's, well I was never asked, even if they actually did study, that will still just be a quarter of A sample of brits, and hell if I went into right part of USA and asked 5 people from mental home some questions, I am sure I could get some fun results as well

[Orga777]

Sorry mate big BUT coming up, they are not behind western world in terms of ecomonic..etc might, however yes there is social problems, however that isn't being it is delovopling nation, that is because they choose to treat their workers like S((T, not because have too

I am talking about the living conditions mostly. Not the people in charge of the economy which is all mostly government run in a Communist Nation.

This is another problem Americans have which makes people think their stupid, when their not, I mean tectically, you have a point, but you could say this about any county in world, it would hit them hard, hell ecomonic problems in USA have hit world hard and if USA fell off ecomonic map, it wouldn't be just Japan, it would be everyone who is screwed (as for food sources, well that is something which take too long to go into here, but it is lot more complex than you give it credit for)

I KNOW that the rest of the world will be crushed, but I was just making the point that Japan would be hit harder than more than those in, say Europe who are now united and can help each other out to eventually overcome a total US collapse (even if it could take decades). Japan is totally connected to the US in every single way right down to us being their first line of defense in a war if they are ever attacked (as they are only allowed a Defense Force, NOT a Military.) If we fall, they will come with us fully (which would probably hurt the world even more as the two largest economies would be gone) for the food thing, yeah it is more complicated than I posted. I just don't feel like going into detail on it.

Currently USA have best ecomony for trading in, but this doesn't mean it is richest county or trades most out, in terms of GDP, techinoally Luxembourg and Norway are richer than USA and Ireland is only just behind it

The reason for that is because we hardly make anything anymore. Out high business tax is chasing innovators and business out of here and setting up overseas.

And in terms of Plain money, Japan is a lot richer, and at minute USA is having to use them to keep themselves afloat, in same way, Britain did with USA during WW2 and in that same way, it is not going to be good for you,

And you still haven't answered my question about japanese, who I think I have proved are on level enough to be allowed in your DEVOPELVED nation test and so in this question
-do you consider Americans harder working than Japanese, (who on average work 7am-9pm)

Oh? Really now? This may be a couple years older (2005), but here it is:
http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/archive/2008/04/16/59463.aspx

South Korea has the highest in the world, but it specifically says that the United States put in 15% more hours when it comes to the richer Western Nations. And Japan is also below us. They may be gaining, but they aren't there yet. ;)

Mate, read my first post, I said Americans were not dumb, I was merely stating, that you have sometimes have an arrogance and really please look at webpage your using, have you never heard saying, Lies, Damned Lies and Statistic's, it says a quarter of Britain's, well I was never asked, even if they actually did study, that will still just be a quarter of A sample of brits, and hell if I went into right part of USA and asked 5 people from mental home some questions, I am sure I could get some fun results as well

I know. I was just being facetious. :p
And it does say that only 3000 people were interviewed, so I figured it out pretty quickly where the numbers came from. So I knew it wasn't meant to be taken as the whole country. Also, it wasn't really a reply to you, just in general. Because I know plenty of British people over the internet that think the USA are dumb when they have just as much idiots in their country. I was not repling it to you directly.

[maisetofan]

30,000 people die from fire arms each year in the states and since 1960 200,000 murders have gone unsolved not to mention the 6250 murderers that are never caught on a yearly basis, this begs the question. Whats wrong? why is something not being done?

[Orga777]

30,000 people die from fire arms each year in the states and since 1960 200,000 murders have gone unsolved not to mention the 6250 murderers that are never caught on a yearly basis, this begs the question. Whats wrong? why is something not being done?

Yeah... Lets look at these numbers. How many of those violent acts from fire arms are from people that own the guns LEGALLY?

Do you think the bad guys aren't going to keep getting guns? I sure as hell don't. If someone wants a gun for protection, then they should be allowed to HAVE said gun. There is enough red tape around now that it is hard for criminals to get a legal gun anyway.

[HolyShadow]

Crime brings in revenue. Without crime, there wouldn't be officers, and without officers, a lot of jobs would be lost. This would be blamed on the government, who would then feebly attempt to replace those jobs. Then, if anything ends up secure, a simple gang could possibly overthrow a city due to lack of officers, leading to an army marching in to quell the 'rebellion'. This would cause the peoples' support of the rebellion due to the liberal media generally being against any type of military action. Revolts would become more common, and using the media to falsely report on criminal activities by the government, people would join them, leading eventually to a full-on revolution. When revolutions happen, communism usually takes over. With communism, free speech would be a thing of the past, and the government in place would then support those that helped them in their conquest and execute those that were against them, then strip away all freedom of the working-class, preventing them from owning weapons or ways to collect information or people. This would make overthrowing the government nigh-impossible. And, with that, there would be no such thing as opportunity. Many would wish to leave the country only to be stopped by border patrols as revenge for them doing the same. At least in the United States, attempting to stop all crime altogether is not wise.

Not sure if this is far fetched or not. You decide.

[Orga777]

Crime brings in revenue. Without crime, there wouldn't be officers, and without officers, a lot of jobs would be lost. This would be blamed on the government, who would then feebly attempt to replace those jobs. Then, if anything ends up secure, a simple gang could possibly overthrow a city due to lack of officers, leading to an army marching in to quell the 'rebellion'. This would cause the peoples' support of the rebellion due to the liberal media generally being against any type of military action. Revolts would become more common, and using the media to falsely report on criminal activities by the government, people would join them, leading eventually to a full-on revolution. When revolutions happen, communism usually takes over. With communism, free speech would be a thing of the past, and the government in place would then support those that helped them in their conquest and execute those that were against them, then strip away all freedom of the working-class, preventing them from owning weapons or ways to collect information or people. This would make overthrowing the government nigh-impossible. And, with that, there would be no such thing as opportunity. Many would wish to leave the country only to be stopped by border patrols as revenge for them doing the same. At least in the United States, attempting to stop all crime altogether is not wise.

Not sure if this is far fetched or not. You decide.

...You are my new best friend. XD
A little out there and I would never see that happening here in the USA (especially since crime will never go away and on the other side, the NRA is too powerful a lobbying organization for guns to be taken away from the people which also usually leads to oppreession [like in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia])

But I agree with you on the Liberal Media stuff.:D

[HolyShadow]

teachers are incompetent


Lemme stop ya right there. Not all teachers here are incompetent. For example, my English teacher in my Junior year happened to be a complete genius at teaching the material. He made sure we did all of our work, treated us like equals, yet made sure that we would not disrespect him or others. He kept us quiet when we were needed to be quiet and brought about our attention during class-discussions to the point that nearly everyone participated, including people that would normally be described as hermits. His tests were difficult, but rewarding, as was all of the work. He made the classes fun for basically everyone with his cheerful attitude on life while simultaneously keeping attention focused on the material at hand. He worked us like dogs, but we loved it.

I could very easily say that he's the whole reason why I want to be a teacher. We need more like him.

[Orga777]

Lemme stop ya right there. Not all teachers here are incompetent. For example, my English teacher in my Junior year happened to be a complete genius at teaching the material. He made sure we did all of our work, treated us like equals, yet made sure that we would not disrespect him or others. He kept us quiet when we were needed to be quiet and brought about our attention during class-discussions to the point that nearly everyone participated, including people that would normally be described as hermits. His tests were difficult, but rewarding, as was all of the work. He made the classes fun for basically everyone with his cheerful attitude on life while simultaneously keeping attention focused on the material at hand. He worked us like dogs, but we loved it.

I could very easily say that he's the whole reason why I want to be a teacher. We need more like him.


Oh, I had an awesome English Teacher in my Junior Year of High school that taught very well and that all the students loved too. But what I think he ment was that overall teachers are incompetant, and I have to agree. Because I have had the misfourtune of having more teachers that the whole class hates (even now in College that happens!) moreso than one that everyone likes.

[HolyShadow]

Oh, I had an awesome English Teacher in my Junior Year of High school that taught very well and that all the students loved too. But what I think he ment was that overall teachers are incompetant, and I have to agree. Because I have had the misfourtune of having more teachers that the whole class hates (even now in College that happens!) moreso than one that everyone likes.
Where did the hate stem from? Did it magically appear? No. Hate comes from one's own mind. Hate is an illusion that reacts based on the actions of others. However, this is not always the case. Sometimes people just think they're better than others because of differing opinions. Remember that a professor has worked their whole life to get to where they are. Not to say that they are all good, but unless they're clearly dicks, let them teach you. You'll learn a lot more if you don't let your hate guide you than if you do.

[Orga777]

Where did the hate stem from? Did it magically appear? No. Hate comes from one's own mind. Hate is an illusion that reacts based on the actions of others. However, this is not always the case. Sometimes people just think they're better than others because of differing opinions. Remember that a professor has worked their whole life to get to where they are. Not to say that they are all good, but unless they're clearly dicks, let them teach you. You'll learn a lot more if you don't let your hate guide you than if you do.

Well, hate is a strong word... I don't mean hate the person as a person. What I meant was how they teach, sometimes, doesn't flow well with an entire class, and if that happens the teaching is mediocre (at least to me.)

[HolyShadow]

Well, hate is a strong word... I don't mean hate the person as a person. What I meant was how they teach, sometimes, doesn't flow well with an entire class, and if that happens the teaching is mediocre (at least to me.)
Then instead of complaining, do it better. If you think you can, that is.

[Fat1Fared]

I am talking about the living conditions mostly. Not the people in charge of the economy which is all mostly government run in a Communist Nation.

That isn't because it is a devopling nation, that is just "EVIL" leadership (for lack of better word) they removed several thousand poeple from their homes, to build new luxury flats, to make Beijing look nice for Olympic games, and they could have easily let poeple move back in for free, they didn't want them to, encase made it untidy and so made it so they were not allowed in,

I KNOW that the rest of the world will be crushed, but I was just making the point that Japan would be hit harder than more than those in, say Europe who are now united and can help each other out to eventually overcome a total US collapse (even if it could take decades). Japan is totally connected to the US in every single way right down to us being their first line of defense in a war if they are ever attacked (as they are only allowed a Defense Force, NOT a Military.) If we fall, they will come with us fully (which would probably hurt the world even more as the two largest economies would be gone) for the food thing, yeah it is more complicated than I posted. I just don't feel like going into detail on it.

well like said, that is big IF, and lot of unforeseeable factors there, however if Europe can survive, by default Japan will as well, however I don't Europe would surivive, as think by time American goes that far, the world will have to so far gone, ecomonic power would be useless anyway.

The reason for that is because we hardly make anything anymore. Out high business tax is chasing innovators and business out of here and setting up overseas.


Doesn't change its state of affairs,

Oh? Really now? This may be a couple years older (2005), but here it is:
http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/ar.../16/59463.aspx

South Korea has the highest in the world, but it specifically says that the United States put in 15% more hours when it comes to the richer Western Nations. And Japan is also below us. They may be gaining, but they aren't there yet.

Once again we are back to lies, damned lies and statistics, well if we move away from the how, what do we do in this time, as that is hard to quantifie, and go with your time of most hours worked, then that is on official national average, however offically my father use to work 34 hours a week, he really worked 64 hours a week that is big difference, and in japan this happens a lot, where you officially work X amount, but intruth you will be working from second wake, to second go to back and weekends are also there too, how do I know this, my stepdad works there around 2 months of year every year, and we could have moved there if he wanted, but he realised as poeple he works with work from 7Am to 9Pm and they are not the acception to rule. Now don't get me wrong, from what I know, Americans who work in most areas, where need to be are not work shy themselves, however to call them hardest workers in even western world is pushing it

JG, this isn't my dad is bigger than your dad, this is my mates dad is bigger than your dad lol, no I am making point, that USA CAN come off as arrogant and from that stupid at times, because it has habit of underestimating very other county, Britain did same thing, in our "GOLDEN" age, and look where it got us

And it does say that only 3000 people were interviewed, so I figured it out pretty quickly where the numbers came from. So I knew it wasn't meant to be taken as the whole country. Also, it wasn't really a reply to you, just in general. Because I know plenty of British people over the internet that think the USA are dumb when they have just as much idiots in their country. I was not repling it to you directly.

well with stupid english people, to be truthful, in general I would say that we have pretty good cultural knowledge and a pretty good level of education, which studies a lot of different countries and idea's, however we are generally too depressive and hateful for my taste and have this habiting of believing that very day will be end of society as we know it, most of us seem to think that being English is a curse and that it would have been better to born in Iraq or somewhere along those lines. Though we do have some real idiots, this comes from love of beer and drugs and lack of common sense, as though we may be ok on cultural and educational level, it is scary how many of us have no common sense

Do you think the bad guys aren't going to keep getting guns? I sure as hell don't. If someone wants a gun for protection, then they should be allowed to HAVE said gun. There is enough red tape around now that it is hard for criminals to get a legal gun anyway.

Sorry have to disagree here, the reason USA has high gun crime, is because it allows guns, you give a man a gun, he will give you a body.

I am so glad we cannot get guns with ease here (far from impossible, but not like USA) as you just have to look at average person to know you wouldn't want a gun in his hand. Hell we cannot even trust our police with a gun, without them shooting some poor election, no correct that, we cannot trust them with a batton without them beating a poor paper saler to death and then use the completely unjustifiable and in truth unlawful Terrorism acts to defend themselves,

Crime brings in revenue. Without crime, there wouldn't be officers, and without officers, a lot of jobs would be lost. This would be blamed on the government, who would then feebly attempt to replace those jobs. Then, if anything ends up secure, a simple gang could possibly overthrow a city due to lack of officers, leading to an army marching in to quell the 'rebellion'. This would cause the peoples' support of the rebellion due to the liberal media generally being against any type of military action. Revolts would become more common, and using the media to falsely report on criminal activities by the government, people would join them, leading eventually to a full-on revolution. When revolutions happen, communism usually takes over. With communism, free speech would be a thing of the past, and the government in place would then support those that helped them in their conquest and execute those that were against them, then strip away all freedom of the working-class, preventing them from owning weapons or ways to collect information or people. This would make overthrowing the government nigh-impossible. And, with that, there would be no such thing as opportunity. Many would wish to leave the country only to be stopped by border patrols as revenge for them doing the same. At least in the United States, attempting to stop all crime altogether is not wise.

Durkiem would love you holy, well to be fair there is argument, that crime is needed and BLUE LEVEL crime does make more than it loses, however White LEVEL crime costs countries billions and causes many world problems, but is hardly ever reported and most blue level is used by governments as way to smokescream their own actions, get everyone worried about muggers, so forget us, so think that is it far from good thing,

As for rebellions and Communism parts...etc I'm going to mark that as a holy rant, and little more

[maisetofan]

Yeah... Lets look at these numbers. How many of those violent acts from fire arms are from people that own the guns LEGALLY?

Do you think the bad guys aren't going to keep getting guns? I sure as hell don't. If someone wants a gun for protection, then they should be allowed to HAVE said gun. There is enough red tape around now that it is hard for criminals to get a legal gun anyway.

so there should not be ban on guns?
even though in 2003 85% of americans were FOR the ban of guns

hunting for fun is cruel and unnecessary
and its okay to shoot someone you don't like, at least you have a legal license to own a gun, i doubt it would stand up in court although with so many murderers getting off perhaps it would

People would not need a gun to protect themselves if they were banned and people were prosecuted for having them, but then again i am talking about a perfect fair world so it wont happen

[maisetofan]

anyway onto another topic

how much of the brutality of the war in the middle east actually televised?
do americans not want to know, or see images of soldiers dying the arms of their comrads or being blown to pieces on the streets? no the news stations (fox for one) would rather televise Jennifer anniston's next love conquest or Angelina's latest fight with brad.

Do the american people really care what horror is going on and has been going on

its all well and good to say you agree with the war in iraq, but do you care about the men dying, the women dying? the families who mourn the losses in private.
Do the unknown soldiers who fell over there EVER get a mention, and dont tell me they do cuz
the war is a disaster and no they dont

[HolyShadow]

anyway onto another topic

how much of the brutality of the war in the middle east actually televised?
do americans not want to know, or see images of soldiers dying the arms of their comrads or being blown to pieces on the streets? no the news stations (fox for one) would rather televise Jennifer anniston's next love conquest or Angelina's latest fight with brad.

Do the american people really care what horror is going on and has been going on

its all well and good to say you agree with the war in iraq, but do you care about the men dying, the women dying? the families who mourn the losses in private.
Do the unknown soldiers who fell over there EVER get a mention, and dont tell me they do cuz
the war is a disaster and no they dont
They signed a contract making them dogs of the military. If they weren't psychologically prepared for death, they shouldn't have joined. Instead of crying over it, respect them. Do you really think they want you to cry over their death? No, they want their death to be honored, even if you don't know their name or face. They want their death to have a purpose. At the very least, we have to finish every war we start, as respect for those who have fallen.

[maisetofan]

yes respect, not just ignore it by not even televising what happens
Lets just sweep it all under the rug, thats the american way isnt it?

War isnt brutal cuz they do not choose to believe it is on the TV :mad:

[OverMind]

I'm going to generalize meisetofan's scope in regards to the topic and bring the discussion to focus on America's foreign policy.

Before I start getting bukkaked by posts disagreeing with me from all sides, I'd like to emphasize that the US does, in fact, donate a helluva lot of money to the third-world in aid. Someone already mentioned this, but you may not understand the gravity of those contributions. They're significant to the point that some countries may not even be able to function without such contributions.

Now, however, there's two sides to the coin. For one, the US tends to have an imperialistic attitude towards the world. Perhaps the best examples deal with their officially non-existent relations with Iran and Cuba.

Let's focus on Iran right now. The US (under pleas from Britain) engineered a coup to overthrow Iran's democratically-elected, secular government in the '50s in order to ensure Britain would continue to get a steady flow of cheap oil. Because of the success of this operation, they developed tactics to destabilize other regions for their own interests particularly in Latin America.

The CIA continued to pat themselves on the back until the Iranian Revolution occurred in the '70s which was highlighted by the American Embassy being taken hostage. Eventually, ties got servered and an Islamic, theocratic republic was formed.

Nowadays, the CIA's role in Iran is deemed a failure with the coining of a purely American term used in international political affairs; blowback (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(intelligence)), the random acts of violence or perpetrated against Americans or other unintended consequences as a result of political interference.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Cable news sucks indeed (not just Fox), but I'm going to agree with HolyShadow. I say this with a 19 year old cousin in Iraq right now.

Although I don't think this has much to do with Americans being dumb anymore. But that's just me.

[maisetofan]

no its not about All americans being dumb, that is again a negative untrue stereotype since alot of brilliant minds have come from the land of the free

BUT i would say the health system over there is pretty bad, i do hope for all those who cannot afford health insurance, or who can but the insurance just wont pay for, that it does change.

Seriously, australia and new Zealand's health system is amazing compared to the states and its really insane because you are one of the richest countries, well were

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

I agree, Americans are dumb.

I should know, I am one

IMO: Americans are more arrogant than dumb. It's like we think the whole world revolves around us. Using the G.W. Bush statement, the comment might make you facepalm, but if you fail to recognize other people, countries, and cultures... it might be easy to disregard the fact that Wales is a small country south of England and claim it as a State.

[maisetofan]

I agree, Americans are dumb.

I should know, I am one

IMO: Americans are more arrogant than dumb. It's like we think the whole world revolves around us. Using the G.W. Bush statement, the comment might make you facepalm, but if you fail to recognize other people, countries, and cultures... it might be easy to disregard the fact that Wales is a small country south of England and claim it as a State.

good quote gcar :D

[Ohara]

I don't think it's possible to generalize it like that. Saying an entire country is dumb isn't right, IMO (even if they have a larger amount of dumb people than other countries do).

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

IMO: people all over the world are the same. In other countries, you'll have stupid people and smart people. You are going to have people who are complete and utter assholes and people who are really cool.

and for those that can't tell, the first part of my earlier statement was a JOKE. Read the spoilers, If I were talking about All Americans being stupid, I'd be talking about myself too. I *hangs head in shame* Ish American. :/

[DaJacksterN]

Not all Americans are dumb, nor even most. However I have found that a lot are patriotic to a sense that makes them uncaring towards anything that goes on outside America; some feel that, since the U.S is the greatest country on earth, they shouldn't have to know anything about anyone else. Everything they need is right there at home, and it's the BEST, so why bother?
That much IS true, as I've seen it happen quite a few times. It's not stupidity, just ignorance.
There are also, however, many that understand the values of the other countries and aren't so introverted. However these are the people that rarely speak out anyways like the ignorant ones do, and in keeping their mouths shut allow only those who have no idea what they're doing to be the ones who are heard on the world stage. The ones who shout loudest are the ones who understand the least.

And that's is my two cents. Being in Ontario, and living very close to the border, I visit the States regularily and have lots of friends down there. I'm not some person who hates the States just 'because'; I actually have some real experience on the issue.

[Orga777]

so there should not be ban on guns?
even though in 2003 85% of americans were FOR the ban of guns

hunting for fun is cruel and unnecessary
and its okay to shoot someone you don't like, at least you have a legal license to own a gun, i doubt it would stand up in court although with so many murderers getting off perhaps it would

People would not need a gun to protect themselves if they were banned and people were prosecuted for having them, but then again i am talking about a perfect fair world so it wont happen

Right, and you are going to say that those Drug and Gun Runners from Mexico are going to STOP when guns are outlawed? Really now?

As for our relations to Iran, I think it is kinda pointless to really acknoledge them like we are right now. That can come back and hurt us. The Ayatollah are still in charge and getting them to cooperate that doesn't include glassing over Isreal is not going to work. The leaders over there aren't exactely... sane?

[Orga777]

So what your plan is give everyone a gun and let them sort out own problems, trust me it has been proven time and time again, you cannot trust common poeple to govern themselves, like I said before you give a man a gun, he will give you a body

And again I have to ask, how many violent crimes with fire arms are results of people owning the guns legally? If the number is less than those of illegal gun use, then what would it accomplish than people no longer being able to protect themselves incase of someone breaking and entering?

I'm not really a fan of governments..etc, but I know that it would be lot worse without them, look at the mess Iraq was after Saddam was removed, it was before, but now it is complete hell

I agree. It isn't like I am an anarchist. But just relying on the police forces to protect everyone doesn't always work. Didn't you yourself say that you can't even trust your own cops in the UK? An armed public doesn't always lead to disaster. The US has been armed all of its existance, and we aren't burning to the ground with everyone getting shot in the streets. Also, I think you overblow the concept that "give a man a gun, and he will kill." If that was teh case, there would be A LOT more murders here than there are. Most people buy guns for protection purposes than just to go into the streets to shoot people they don't like (and I mean the LEAGAL gun buyers.) If anything an armed public can help keep the government itself in check from overstepping its bounds. Again, disarming the public doesn't always lead to sunshine and lollipops throughout history.

And what are you TALKING about? Iraq is calming down recently. It is no longer a complete mess and the US will be pulling out most troops from Iraq by next year because the Iraqi Police Force and government are set up well enough to protect themselves. It STARTED out bad after Saddam was taken out of power, but it is not anywhere near as bad now and we now have a well established ally (hopefully for a while) in the Middle East that isn't named Isreal.

Maybe there not insane, maybe they are just using only tactics they can to try and stop USA inferring in their country (and though the USA likes to save other countries from evil governments, usually only does it, when they is something there for them to use)

The whole world is about their interests. It isn't just us, it is everyone. If something doesn't help England, do you think they would just step in? Of course not. If that was the case someone would have stepped in with Darfur by now. So don't give me that, no country helps tyranny unless they get something out of it themselves. Not just the US.

And if you don't think Iran has insane leadership, then I wish I could be as blind to what they say as you are...

This all comes back to orginal point, I made, Americans come off as Arrogant and this makes them also seem ignorant, which makes seem dumb, when on whole they are not what I would call dumb, as for what I would call dumb, well that is harder question, that no one has yet asked?

I won't deny that. But maybe other nations people are just as ignorant and arrogant of Americans. I mean, there is enough Anti-US sentiment around from our own ALLIES that it can come off that way. There are plenty of people that think they are better than Americans after all, so maybe the arrogance and ignorance is mutual...

[Fat1Fared]

And again I have to ask, how many violent crimes with fire arms are results of people owning the guns legally? If the number is less than those of illegal gun use, then what would it accomplish than people no longer being able to protect themselves incase of someone breaking and entering?
Well, if go on fact that:-
-USA=Legal Guns=High Gun Crime
-Others=illegal guns=Low gun Crime

Then there is an answer to this, however, this is bit to simple to be fair. And a lot of it isnt by legal gun owners, however it will be because guns are so easy to get in USA, with lots of the illegal guns coming from LEGAL gun sellers, selling illegally, as it is so easy to get gun in USA. (60% of gun crime, traced to legal shops)

Another thing is lot of guns are stole from legal areas and then sold illegally, with, 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years in USA and 40%, being refound on black market

So it still comes from the overall area of legal guns, and if close shops down and make it harder to get them, the amount of illegal guns will be massively cut, as only people with knowledge will be able to get them

-Going to do this second part, in several parts,

I agree. It isn't like I am an anarchist. But just relying on the police forces to protect everyone doesn't always work. Didn't you yourself say that you can't even trust your own cops in the UK? An armed public doesn't always lead to disaster.

Yes, there is massive lack of trust for British police as they are one of most disgraceful fulls forces in western world, and thank god we limit their use of guns. But do I want the public with guns ether, NO, look at G8 riots, they were bad, if we had guns in mix as well, it would have been complete and utter disaster, and that would be public V police

The US has been armed all of its existance, and we aren't burning to the ground with everyone getting shot in the streets. Also, I think you overblow the concept that "give a man a gun, and he will kill." If that was teh case, there would be A LOT more murders here than there are. Most people buy guns for protection purposes than just to go into the streets to shoot people they don't like (and I mean the LEAGAL gun buyers.)

Yes, I am overblowing that statement, little bit, but it is true, and the fact is, gun crime is high in your county, because of legal guns (as shown above) and the idea of it to defend yourself is not good one, as though I understand point, in practice it rarely works, and just leads to more problems.

And what are you TALKING about? Iraq is calming down recently. It is no longer a complete mess and the US will be pulling out most troops from Iraq by next year because the Iraqi Police Force and government are set up well enough to protect themselves. It STARTED out bad after Saddam was taken out of power, but it is not anywhere near as bad now and we now have a well established ally (hopefully for a while) in the Middle East that isn't named Isreal.

Sorry, this was mistake on my part, I meant to say, THEN not NOW, as now there is a government in place to some degree, it is calming down, though what end result will be, is one for future.

The whole world is about their interests. It isn't just us, it is everyone. If something doesn't help England, do you think they would just step in? Of course not. If that was the case someone would have stepped in with Darfur by now. So don't give me that, no country helps tyranny unless they get something out of it themselves. Not just the US.

And if you don't think Iran has insane leadership, then I wish I could be as blind to what they say as you are...

Well, England DID, get involved in lot of countries problems, without getting much back for long time (we would have had lot more if let Nazis Germany stay in power,) until about 50?s, now we just get involved in American wars <WINK>.

If look lot of other countries just try not to get involved unless forced to, so yes there is a fair point there, but lest don?t lie about it, like USA, who seem to try and make out it is all for good of others, take Iraq war, that was over Oil, but it was covered over with this pro-democracy bull.

As for Iran, sorry, being pedantic there in order to try and show there is always another side, yes their leader is as close to insane as possible, but to them, they get defensive with countries like USA, because think going try and infer with them, and though I don?t agree with them or their political ideals, as far as their concerned, their defending and strengthening their countries.

I won't deny that. But maybe other nations people are just as ignorant and arrogant of Americans. I mean, there is enough Anti-US sentiment around from our own ALLIES that it can come off that way. There are plenty of people that think they are better than Americans after all, so maybe the arrogance and ignorance is mutual...

Well, yes, though there is lot of anti-feeling to USA, this because, on whole most see USA as a country which bullies other countries, like English people hating that we were forced into a war, which everyone but most powerful politicians were against (though hate them MP?s more lol.) Also many think that Americans, look down on all other cultures, as under devoplued or weak, (which is one I would agree with) and they see the Americans as blind sheep, but here, I actually, think is now wrong, even in last few years their has been massive move in USA away from ALL-HIGH-USA feeling, to more cynical ?English? like feeling to their country.

But Final, major reason, is that most countries, disagree with America?s view on things IE GUNS (Plus to be fair, probably little jusically there as well)

PS if want my actual view on Americans, it is nicely summed by Jack

[killshot]

Well, if go on fact that:-
-USA=Legal Guns=High Gun Crime
-Others=illegal guns=Low gun Crime

The fact that guns are legal in the United States cannot be casually viewed as the cause of gun crime. Canada has more guns per person than the United States and yet gun related crime is MUCH lower than in the US. Before you look at gun related crime, you should take note of crime in general. People use guns because they are available. Taking away guns doesn't not take away the incentive to engage in criminal activities.

[killshot]

Killshot, I'm upset, your smarter than that, to take one small part of post and make it out to whole thing is very poor way to rebutt a point, aspaically when the part you missed makes the very same point, I actually said in that post, that, that is too simple a point to be made, into the final answer, it comes from fact, that guns are so easy to get, that poeple you won't want to have them, have them, now the reasons for crime are another question altogether and one I was not on about, I was merely stating you make it easy to get guns, going to have higher gun crime

If I misunderstood your point then I apologize, but it looked to me like you were implying that the availability of guns in the United States is the cause of gun crime. If you meant to say something else, then perhaps you could clarify your position.

[Fat1Fared]

Well, if go on fact that:-
-USA=Legal Guns=High Gun Crime
-Others=illegal guns=Low gun Crime

Then there is an answer to this, however, this is bit to simple to be fair.

OK, this first bit was a very very basic theory, made by statistics, which showed, Countries with legalised guns, have high crime, here are statistics, as know you will want them:-

Number of murders committed in 1995 in the US: 20,043
Percentage of murders committed with a firearm: 68 (13,673)
Percentage of murders committed with a handgun: 56 (11,198)

To, lets say United Kingdom

* Firearms were involved in 455 serious or fatal injuries,



So as see here, you have 20,000 murdered, we have 400, including injuries, that is drop of 500%, I believe, (though maths is weak point for me) and yes we have the problem, that england has 60million to 300million (ruff,) which means, if we moved us up to that as well, we would in theory, have 2000 gun crimes, however that would still be drop of 100% (remembering this includes injures,) which means, clearly we have basic truth there that in two similar countries, one without guns, has less crime

However like I said it is too simple to just end it there, as like orga fairly stated, 65% of that is illegally own guns, however like I said in next part, it is the fact these guns are easily avarable on market, that we get these problems

lots of the illegal guns coming from LEGAL gun sellers, selling illegally, as it is so easy to get gun in USA. (60% of gun crime, traced to legal shops)

Again, only in theory and never going to be full science, but if removed these legal gun shops, that would make drop of 60% in your gun crime, and so already have big drop, and this only includes ones who got caught, and their guns found

Another thing is lot of guns are stole from legal areas and then sold illegally, with, 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years in USA and 40%, being refound on black market

This just shows another way, that guns being legal, makes them easier to be gain illegally and involved in crimes

So not saying, the reason you have gun crime is there legal, that is wrong, but it cannot help but make it easier for those wanting to use them for crimes, to get them

PS the statistics here are flawed, which I will admit to, just cannot be bothered, to sort them fully as this is just very basic way to show, that legalising guns, will only help increase their involvement of crime,

[killshot]

So as see here, you have 20,000 murdered, we have 400, including injuries, that is drop of 500%, I believe, (though maths is weak point for me) and yes we have the problem, that england has 60million to 300million (ruff,) which means, if we moved us up to that as well, we would in theory, have 2000 gun crimes, however that would still be drop of 100% (remembering this includes injures,) which means, clearly we have basic truth there that in two similar countries, one without guns, has less crime

I will gladly admit that the United States has higher crime rates than the UK. The problem is assuming that guns are causing crime. Before we can examine why gun crime rates are so high in the United States, we first have to determine why crime rates in general are high. Guns can not be the only factor because there are countries (I used Canada as an example earlier, but I'm sure there are others) that have more guns per person than the United States and less crime, gun crime or otherwise. If the availability of guns was causing higher crime rates, we would expect to see countries like Canada having greater or at least an equal rate of crime as the United States. This is obviously not the case.

Something worth mentioning is the fact that there are areas of the United States where gun ownership is heavily restricted and sometimes illegal. I'm talking about areas like Washington, D.C. where residents are not allowed to own handguns. Despite the heavy gun regulation, Washington, D.C. continues to have one of the highest violent crime rates in the United States. Crime was so bad around the 1990's that D.C. earned the nickname "murder capital of the United States."

Again, only in theory and never going to be full science, but if removed these legal gun shops, that would make drop of 60% in your gun crime, and so already have big drop, and this only includes ones who got caught, and their guns found

This would only cause a drop in gun crime, and leave law abiding citizens defenseless against the 40% who still have their guns. Even without legal methods of purchasing firearms, criminals will still have a means of attaining them. Legal gun shops provide a way to regulate guns and keep track of who buys them.

So not saying, the reason you have gun crime is there legal, that is wrong, but it cannot help but make it easier for those wanting to use them for crimes, to get them

Gun crime isn't going to go away just by outlawing gun ownership. Criminals have a way of getting weapons that regular citizens do not. Not allowing the public to defend themselves will only making it easier on the criminals who have access to guns. Outlawing gun ownership will also make it harder to track the owners of guns used in crimes because the gun would not have been registered to an owner. Banning gun ownership would do more harm than good in this country.


EDIT: This is really getting off topic. If you want to continue this discussion, I would suggest making a new thread.

[Orga777]

I will gladly admit that the United States has higher crime rates than the UK. The problem is assuming that guns are causing crime. Before we can examine why gun crime rates are so high in the United States, we first have to determine why crime rates in general are high. Guns can not be the only factor because there are countries (I used Canada as an example earlier, but I'm sure there are others) that have more guns per person than the United States and less crime, gun crime or otherwise. If the availability of guns was causing higher crime rates, we would expect to see countries like Canada having greater or at least an equal rate of crime as the United States. This is obviously not the case.

Something worth mentioning is the fact that there are areas of the United States where gun ownership is heavily restricted and sometimes illegal. I'm talking about areas like Washington, D.C. where residents are not allowed to own handguns. Despite the heavy gun regulation, Washington, D.C. continues to have one of the highest violent crime rates in the United States. Crime was so bad around the 1990's that D.C. earned the nickname "murder capital of the United States."

Damn, you beat me to it... I was going to post practically the same thing. Chicago has the same problem actually. Hand guns are illegal and yet violent crime rates are soaring up there too.

This would only cause a drop in gun crime, and leave law abiding citizens defenseless against the 40% who still have their guns. Even without legal methods of purchasing firearms, criminals will still have a means of attaining them. Legal gun shops provide a way to regulate guns and keep track of who buys them.

I have been trying to get that across. We have to look at how many of the gun crimes here are from people that buy and own guns legally and how many don't.

Gun crime isn't going to go away just by outlawing gun ownership. Criminals have a way of getting weapons that regular citizens do not. Not allowing the public to defend themselves will only making it easier on the criminals who have access to guns. Outlawing gun ownership will also make it harder to track the owners of guns used in crimes because the gun would not have been registered to an owner. Banning gun ownership would do more harm than good in this country.

Exactly. A perfect example is that there are more Drug and Gun Runners in the US (almost all of which come from Mexico) than probably any one country of the Western European nations. You outlaw gun ownership here and the criminals have easy pickings of no resistance while they buy their guns off the streets that are in the country illeagally. And with the United States failing time after time to inforce border control and punish those that DO, the problem will never go away and may even get worse.

Thanks again. I just wanted to re-enforce your points.

[Orga777]

Mate, I have already answered Kill in a PM, and really cannot be bothered to answer it for you,

However have to say, shut up about Mexican drug dealers PLEASE, they make up 2% of your crime, and probably use their guns to shoot each other, they won't shoot you, unless you get in their way, if you ever see a normal man stop a group of REAL maxican drug deals with a gun, who attacked HIM first, without cause, please tell me, as at minute your living in a fantasy, of the evil drug dealers getting caught by helpful gun slinger man. These drug dealers, don't just go around killing normal poeple, that would cause them unneeded problems, the poeple they kill are those that got in their way (most likely another drug dealer) and that will be pretty small in grand scale of things,

I guess you didn't read carefully... I didn't just say the Drug Runners. But the Gun Runners as well which is probably an even bigger problem. Remember, most illegal guns on the streets get there somehow afterall, and there are a lot of Gun Runners that come from Mexico. This is fact. It isn't JUST there, but it is a major problem.

Finally it all comes down to where get gun from, doesn't matter if person using it, is legal or not, it is person selling it, restrict the supply, restrict the problem, cannot stop it, but can lessen it

Again, there is so much red tape in getting a gun these days that you have to pretty much be squeaky clean to own a handgun (and as some parts of this country where crime is still outrageously high like Chicago and DC handguns are illegal hasn't helped.) Shit, getting a gun is only one problem. It is even HARDER to get bullets for the thing. There are enough restrictions in place that it shouldn't be a serious issue these days when it comes to LEGAL gun owners. Especially since for the most part, LEGAL gun owners aren't the people you have to watch out for.

[Fat1Fared]

I guess you didn't read carefully... I didn't just say the Drug Runners. But the Gun Runners as well which is probably an even bigger problem. Remember, most illegal guns on the streets get there somehow afterall, and there are a lot of Gun Runners that come from Mexico. This is fact. It isn't JUST there, but it is a major problem.

Happy now, still same thing applies, you have watched too many westerns and gang land films mate,

EDIT However have to say, shut up about Mexican drug dealers and GUN RUNNERS PLEASE,

Again, there is so much red tape in getting a gun these days that you have to pretty much be squeaky clean to own a handgun (and as some parts of this country where crime is still outrageously high like Chicago and DC handguns are illegal hasn't helped.) Shit, getting a gun is only one problem. It is even HARDER to get bullets for the thing. There are enough restrictions in place that it shouldn't be a serious issue these days when it comes to LEGAL gun owners. Especially since for the most part, LEGAL gun owners aren't the people you have to watch out for.
Reply With Quote

With this one, just think your being dumb now, like I have constantly said, you don't close the gun shops to stop the legal gun owners, you do it, to start stopping them, allowing the flow into illegal areas, like said, the legal gun shops, are cause of 60% of illegal guns and another 950,000 come from legal gun owners, getting theirs nicked (oh the irony, so much for their gun stopping the crime)

However this is my last post on matter, as now going round in circles, and if you cannot even see the point I am making yet, never will, and if USA doesn't want to at lest try and tackle its gun problems, then nothing I can do,

[Serena]

I kinda only only read the first page and this page of post so ill post what i think of this topic:

Poor goverment budgets plans = Poor education = Less career professionals = more employment necessities for the mid to low income family's = pushing people to crimes.

This chain of events starts from the government, however....this doesn't mean that the responsibility falls entirely on them......As part of the full education of a child, also falls about 50 to 80% on the parents, which in the USA that concept that either long forgotten or never fully embrace to begin whit....
Cause In today's world you need to have a nice car, a nice house and have brand clothes to be someone and because of this you need a two job or both parents working to achieve this goal of dreams luxury that you never finished paying.

Because of this the children of today's world lack discipline of making goal for themselves, therefore steering down to what they think is cool and awesome which sometimes lead them to being lazy or being on a gang which they will later become part of the next generation of criminals.

I read in some post the that immigration and being close to a "third world country" has many like to call Mexico (which is not) blame for the crimes rates and drug trafficking to increased in the USA which is totally inaccurate,
I used to live in Mexico and it never was violent as to the see people killing themselves in High school as often happens here on the USA,
crime rates start increasing when Mexico begun to stop the trafficking before reaching the USA because of this the drug lords need to make money so they start selling in schools and in streets like they would normally do in the USA which in the end means More crime in Mexico.

USA needs illegal people for a simple reason, cause it works for the government, and i shall explain why......
1. Since this whole Immigration "BS" start whit people needs documents and all that, it means more money for the agriculture workforces cause now that you employ "Legal Workers" you need to pay them the salaries of 2 or maybe 3 illegal workers would cost, because of this means more money to employ the same people you have before therefore in order to compensate that default you need to increase the taxes, the price for food which sends the economy to hell, I don't say i cheer for a illegal workforce however the USA should have waited to implement the legal work thing after this so call war ad finished so they would have money and not falling to a rescission which we are now.....

as for the gun control, i will say 1 thing only, crime will always exist as long there is money so that means that crime will always exist whit or whiteout guns trusth me on this one :squintyface:

As for the main topic of this treat ill say this, no is not that " Americans" are stupid, or dumb, its just that if we spend more time improving ourselves rather then boosting that were the best Country of the world (which were not) we will not give out that felling toward other nations but then again that's just me.

Sry for the long post and grammar, what aim a saying screw the rules aim a american........wait what....crap.

[maisetofan]

you guys all forgot obesity which kills 300 thousand americans each year.
texas and detroit are meant to be the fattest states in america, and america has the highest amount of obesity in the world and no i did not google that XDXD

[Orga777]

you guys all forgot obesity which kills 300 thousand americans each year.
texas and detroit are meant to be the fattest states in america, and america has the highest amount of obesity in the world and no i did not google that XDXD

I didn't know Detroit was a State. XD I hope you mean Michigan. Oh the irony of the topic. DX

And you would be right... but that can't be fixed by any means of the government. People need to learn selfcontrol and learn to diet properly. And parents need to teach their kids such things.

[maisetofan]

and the copious amounts of food consumed in order to attract such diseases

[Ohara]

I actually think Australia has a higher percentage of fat people - we just have a smaller country... (or at least that's what my mum said -_-;;)

[maisetofan]

well it was documented that america has the most and while australia is big, america has a much higher population
Australia is at 21,745,424
the USA nearly 300 million and land mass wise yes australia is bigger but that doesnt matter, since its people so i do not know what your mother meant by that. i have been to australia.

[Orga777]

well it was documented that america has the most and while australia is big, america has a much higher population
Australia is at 21,745,424
the USA nearly 300 million and land mass wise yes australia is bigger but that doesnt matter, since its people so i do not know what your mother meant by that. i have been to australia.

I think what he meant was that in percent of total people, Australia has more fat people than the USA due to a smaller population.

[maisetofan]

nope america still has the largest amount apparently

[ettagam]

we're not the smartest people in the world by far
if we tighten up our discipline and learn to waste and spend less, and respect people, then maybe we might have some brains and courtesy

[maisetofan]

we're not the smartest people in the world by far
if we tighten up our discipline and learn to waste and spend less, and respect people, then maybe we might have some brains and courtesy

"Here here"

[Aerodynamic]

The American public education system is a complete mess. My English class has some of the dumbest, rudest, and most ignorant people I have ever met, yet my English doesn't do a single thing towards them. I actually asked her after class "Why and how do you put up with this?" Her response? "I have to remember I have to treat them like ten year olds." facepalm.jpg

I believe that resegregation is needed, even if it is "racist". The minorities are bringing down test grades and are lowering standards. People tend to perform better when they're with their own race.

[HolyShadow]

The American public education system is a complete mess. My English class has some of the dumbest, rudest, and most ignorant people I have ever met, yet my English doesn't do a single thing towards them. I actually asked her after class "Why and how do you put up with this?" Her response? "I have to remember I have to treat them like ten year olds." facepalm.jpg

I believe that resegregation is needed, even if it is "racist". The minorities are bringing down test grades and are lowering standards. People tend to perform better when they're with their own race.
That won't work. What needs to be done? We need to eliminate all cell phone companies, for one. Second, we need to make sure students don't spend time in classes with friends. Third, we need to open capital punishment to dominate students and force them to accept their own inferiority. Eliminating all distractions while simultaneously forcing others to understand that the teacher is superior solves the problem on the students' end.

For the teachers, the government needs to allocate more funds in a more intelligent manner. Some schools are specifically designed to spend 90% of their time working on test scores and techniques with no care as to the students' learning. The teachers will have more money, and therefore, more people will want to work in that area. This will lead to more competition and better teachers. When one can be replaced if they mess up too badly, tenure is harder to get, and teachers will try much harder.

Finally, as for the parents, I personally believe that they should be tested, for free, by a psychologist of some sort to make sure that they aren't total douchebags. This should help the parents to respect their children as their children respect them.

[Orga777]

Wow you guys are strict here... XD Not that I don't disagree with some of the points, especially on the teacher issue that HolyShadow mentioned. We got to remember though, that many High School students these days are not only worrying about school, but they also have jobs too. That right there can cut into any true studying time or time to do HW. Trying to juggle a social life inside that grind can really be strenuous, especially on teens all of which are still inexperienced in the world.

I agree that schools should be allowed to be more strict to show that the teachers are still in charge and that students should respect not only their teachers, but peers as well. But I disagree of the total control style though. That could easily increase the already too high drop-out rate. You have to try a slightly less restrictive way for todays American youth which have been spoiled rotten (for the most part anyway.) Personally I think it starts with the parents.

Yeah, this stuff is still fresh in my head since I am only 21 and am still getting experienced in the world and got done High School only a few years ago... I know how terrible some students are... Total animals some of them.

[HolyShadow]

Wow you guys are strict here... XD Not that I don't disagree with some of the points, especially on the teacher issue that HolyShadow mentioned. We got to remember though, that many High School students these days are not only worrying about school, but they also have jobs too. That right there can cut into any true studying time or time to do HW. Trying to juggle a social life inside that grind can really be strenuous, especially on teens all of which are still inexperienced in the world.

They shouldn't have to do homework. If they pay attention in class, then they'll have enough practice.

I agree that schools should be allowed to be more strict to show that the teachers are still in charge and that students should respect not only their teachers, but peers as well. But I disagree of the total control style though. That could easily increase the already too high drop-out rate. You have to try a slightly less restrictive way for todays American youth which have been spoiled rotten (for the most part anyway.) Personally I think it starts with the parents.

Yet the problems with the parents roots from so many places that it's impossible to actually solve that problem.

Yeah, this stuff is still fresh in my head since I am only 21 and am still getting experienced in the world and got done High School only a few years ago... I know how terrible some students are... Total animals some of them.
I was in a French class in which one of the students actually discreetly masturbated every few days in the middle of class. Teacher never noticed because everyone else was acting FUCKING RETARDED.

[maisetofan]

anyway, america has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in the industrialized world

[DANMAN]

Too much contradiction here.

Someone give me discussion.

I would guess people don't even know other cities in other countries. But how can anyone know every single city in every single country? That would be hard to remember.

[Aerodynamic]

Third, we need to open capital punishment to dominate students and force them to accept their own inferiority.

lol

[DaJacksterN]

I wonder why then Canada and the U.S are so different in these regards when we're practically like...brothers?

Why is Canada one way and the US another way?

[Turtlicious]

YES

[Kanariya674]

How does resegregation solve anything?

Sorry white people, but you all are becoming the minority.

Yeah, kids can be heathens. I'm sixteen and I'm appalled by how some are disrespectful and unmotivated they are. But by segregation? Seriously? Stupidity isn't based on race. I know plenty of all races in America that make the human race seem stupid altogether.

Except Asians. >>

[HolyShadow]

lol
It's far more effective than corporal punishment. *Hair flick*

[beatlesgirl95]

Hey, I don't want to sound like an America-hater...but to be quite frank, our country is full of F*CKING IDIOTS! I don't want to think I am dumb, but I don't know if it's just my school but we only have 2 language courses...(Spanish=2 teachers with actual degrees, French=1 teacher that is taking French now)

[DANMAN]

my school teaches Chinese and Latin with those two. But, the Chinese course isn't legal with the school district, therefor it cannot be a real class.

[maisetofan]

Hey, I don't want to sound like an America-hater...but to be quite frank, our country is full of F*CKING IDIOTS! I don't want to think I am dumb, but I don't know if it's just my school but we only have 2 language courses...(Spanish=2 teachers with actual degrees, French=1 teacher that is taking French now)

lol you are awesome :thatface:

I believe that resegregation is needed, even if it is "racist". The minorities are bringing down test grades and are lowering standards. People tend to perform better when they're with their own race.

Who is this racist redneck? :squintyface:

[beatlesgirl95]

lol you are awesome :thatface:




haha thanks:p

[maisetofan]

lol in a study done in 2007 it came out that one fifth of american high school students could not locate america on the world map, new york on their own country's map and when asked where hurricane katrina hit, 48% responded as not knowing what state it happened in.

and nearly half of all students in america who graduate cannot read at an adult level :eek:
then there is the 18% in Mississippi would can read when leaving high school, so 82% cannot, but then again its Mississippi

america was also second to last on the list of education systems in the western world
Australia and new zealand are higher, with canada and england quite high up in the top 10% of public education systems

americas mathematics results were lower than students in japan and germany which is no surprise

English students also reportedly knew more about the united states history than those students who are from america and taught through the public education system

[maisetofan]

its true though

[DaJacksterN]

Wow. I didn't know you guys had it like that down there. o_O

Why is there such a difference??? Canada and the U.S originated from the same peoples, so why is there such a gap in education and other standards of living?

[DaJacksterN]

Then why do both countries have such diffeent governments? What makes our PM so different from your President?

[HolyShadow]

It's because America is built on hypocrisy.

[DaJacksterN]

That....really sucks for you guys. o_O

I'm fairly sure that it has a connection with your level of religiosness. Not hating; it's just the facts. More religious countries tend to have lower standards of life, and you guys are the only outlier in the trend of devloped countries and the hardcore religion you have...

[MrsSallyBakura]

I'm fairly sure that it has a connection with your level of religiosness.

Well, Europe did send a bunch of Puritans over here.

It's entirely possible, but I'm trying to figure out the relationship between the two. I do agree that religion and politics shouldn't ever mix. >_<

[DaJacksterN]

Damn, that really, really bites. Poor slaves....

It HAS been proven. What would one expect, when the Pope and Vatican go around saying condom use is sinful and unholy?

[DANMAN]

'Because the government doesn't care about us.'

Then explain the No Child Left Behind.

Even though I don't like the fact of bringining this up, I would like to contradict that fact.

[HolyShadow]

'Because the government doesn't care about us.'

Then explain the No Child Left Behind.

Even though I don't like the fact of bringining this up, I would like to contradict that fact.
Instead of giving to schools that have low test scores, and therefore need the money, they give to schools that have high test scores that were gotten without aid in order to keep those scores up...

So basically, they're leaving behind low-scoring children in no child left behind?

[DANMAN]

GOOD POINT, my point flawed

[Aerodynamic]

If money was the solution the problem would've been solved decades ago =/

[DANMAN]

O_o That could've been true.

[MrsSallyBakura]

It HAS been proven. What would one expect, when the Pope and Vatican go around saying condom use is sinful and unholy?

Well, first of all, the primary religion in the US is Protestant Christianity, whether they be Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist... etc, and therefore probably don't care about what the Pope says. The Irish and the Germans were the primary Catholic immigrants, and I remember learning in US History that they were discriminated against. I could be wrong, seeing as I don't remember all the details, so if someone would like to correct me, feel free to do so. I'm not saying that the history of Catholicism is innocent either (because... it's not), but you can't throw out an example of the Pope when many Americans don't see him as a leader.

Secondly, if it's been proven, can you please show us? Is there a website or something that shows this proof? I'll take your word for it, it's just that I mostly see how religion can screw up government itself; I'm still not entirely sure how it extends to education. I just want to understand.

[HolyShadow]

I'm going to change my opinion and say no. Americans aren't dumb. My proof?

http://forum.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/showthread.php?t=3953

I rest my case.

[beatlesgirl95]

English students also reportedly knew more about the united states history than those students who are from america and taught through the public education system

Hey, it's not my fault that my American history teacher is a total idiot and doesn't bother to teach us from the book... do have any idea how hard it is to take a test on stuff that he doesn't thoroughly explain because he is to busy yelling at a kid who isn't doing anything (apparently) disruptive! (you can't even look up half of the definitions of vocabulary in the text because he modifies it, puts it in a power point, then has a totally different definition on the test! :squintyface:

(this is mad toward you its just ranting in general:))

[Oath]

its not that americans are dumb(maybe not) its just that they are stuck in there own little world and dont giv a hoot about others worlds unless it either benefits or relates to them. so they are more IGNORANT then dumb, but generally becuz of all them Hicks and red necks (not to beconfuzed with farmers and southerners but they acual ppl that fall into the hick and redneck hill billy stereo-type) america is pretty dumb

[maisetofan]

I'm going to change my opinion and say no. Americans aren't dumb. My proof?

http://forum.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/showthread.php?t=3953

I rest my case.

oh yes cuz that link makes perfect sense to your argument, you think the japanese are crazy and that seems cause to believe that for some reason the education system in the states is A okay

the japanese are some of the smartest people in the world, producing the highest percentage of graduates from high school who are at college level throughout the western world

but yeah rest your case on the basis that the japanese government has a mild obsession with manga

[MrsSallyBakura]

the japanese are some of the smartest people in the world, producing the highest percentage of graduates from high school who are at college level throughout the western world

That may be true, but it also creates students who experience something traumatic in their development during their middle school years to completely drop out of school and hide in their room. A "hikikomori," as they call it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

I've also heard that there are high suicide rates in Japan due to people putting all their worth in their studies only to result in their studies not being top-notch.

So Japan may have incredibly smart people because of their educational system, but I think it's too strict. America can learn a lesson from them, certainly, but there are still negative aspects of being so intense.

[Fat1Fared]

That may be true, but it also creates students who experience something traumatic in their development during their middle school years to completely drop out of school and hide in their room. A "hikikomori," as they call it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

I've also heard that there are high suicide rates in Japan due to people putting all their worth in their studies only to result in their studies not being top-notch.

So Japan may have incredibly smart people because of their educational system, but I think it's too strict. America can learn a lesson from them, certainly, but there are still negative aspects of being so intense.

This is very true, the japanese system (not just education, but whole thing) is brilliant in terms of social officiantly, but not so good for poeple involved (reason my step-dad, turned down moving us their full time, much to my geekie sides dismay lol)

But USA, also I read somewhere has really high suicide rate, could it be said that this is because fails it students so badly? (honest question, which I don't know answer to)

As for poor conditions of your schooling, I had heard it wasn't great, but Mai's stats are scary, aspically for county like USA, but then I did get told by a teacher here who did some work-experience in USA (as teachers aid)

that the school she was in, in the USA, was teaching its pupils that histories biggest Empire was Spain, how did it come to this concluison, well according to this person, when she ask, she was told the schools teaching it, to remove all of Uk's involvement in USA, along with much of our other Empiral history, in order to promote a more Pro-USA feeling, now I hope that this was just one school or a false story, however if it is true, it is a scary thought

[MrsSallyBakura]

But USA, also I read somewhere has really high suicide rate, could it be said that this is because fails it students so badly? (honest question, which I don't know answer to)

You might be thinking of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It's the #1 engineering school in the country but it's very intense. I heard from some University of Michigan students that it had the highest suicide rate of all colleges in the country (U of M has one of the top 10 engineering schools by the way... and these students/professors could also be biased lol). The scary part is that my boyfriend really wanted to go there. Good thing he didn't get accepted. =P

I haven't looked up these stats myself, but it's entirely possible.

Suicide in America isn't typically school-related as far as I know.

[Fat1Fared]

Well, I have no idea, I know have a shootings problem (compared to other western countries,) but suicide in USA, is something I don't know the facts of or have an opinion on My god, I think I just ended all existence lol

It would be interesting to see

[maisetofan]

well the majority of suicide in america is committed by high school students
But whats scary is that New Zealand has the second highest rate of teenage suicide in the western world, and america is said to be the biggest, according to the psychologists i have seen.

America as millions of people in one city, where as New zealand only has 3.5 million in the entire country, so those are freaky stats

[beatlesgirl95]

^ I agree with you... that kinda is sad to think about all the people committing suicide

[maisetofan]

i know :(

[ettagam]

Re segregation. A very powerful process and I do agree that a lot of children were more focused and the communities were more together. But racist is never the answer to anything. If we can take that process apart and see what made students behave better then school and education could be a lot better

[ettagam]

its not that americans are dumb(maybe not) its just that they are stuck in there own little world and dont giv a hoot about others worlds unless it either benefits or relates to them. so they are more IGNORANT then dumb, but generally becuz of all them Hicks and red necks (not to beconfuzed with farmers and southerners but they acual ppl that fall into the hick and redneck hill billy stereo-type) america is pretty dumb

completely agree:)
but is ignorance and stupidity the same in some cases, like america's?

[ettagam]

and teens here kill themselves with drugs and alcohol, or if they aren't accepted in their school as popular or are getting teased. If it was because of school ,then we would have smarter students

[Ishikawa Oshro]

well read some of the previous posts and im guessing its safe to say were talking about suicide.

IN AMERICA that is.
Now I wouldent say im a suicide expert nor do I have a lot of knowledge on suicide. My life rocks so it never passes my mind.
But form that do contemplate on the thoughts. They usually say it has to do with a lot of mental stress. Im guessing these are people that are hurt easily (wether they consider themselves hurt easily or not there soft(not meant as an insult just they have emotions that can be played with like a puppet by society very easily))

These highly emotional people are what we sometimes classify as emos (short for emotional) to your every day A+ science student who never gets anything less.

For that A+ student her parents may make her life a chore studying all day and practicing speech and all that other good stuff that entitles the wise to be wise. But one day she begins to slack off and recieves an F in a new subject. Not knowing the consequence for this the students mind begins to reel with thoughts and ways to cope.
(I know this is where the science part comes in but I dont know what makes a persons mind or body begin to think suicide is the best option)
non-the less some may think SUICIDE as their best option and take their life.

I know more common smaples of suicide though are yes in high school. Buts thats because thats where stress is most high in america. Not to me but for other kids it is. Some hate their life or dislike the way they live. Some have arguing parents. And most are BRUTALLY dumped and think life has just ended because of the EXTREME heart ache it may cause them.

If anyone cuts or has cut they you would probably be of more help. As they do say cutting does relieve tension in the brain. ( I really have no idea how that works though. Seems painfull but people say theres a right way to do it. Something about not cutting a vein and what not O.O)

Thats my very tiny contribution.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

That....really sucks for you guys. o_O

I'm fairly sure that it has a connection with your level of religiosness. Not hating; it's just the facts. More religious countries tend to have lower standards of life, and you guys are the only outlier in the trend of devloped countries and the hardcore religion you have...

This statement would make a lot of sense if america actually followed religion.
Half of our nation goes to church thats a given. But most dont follow the standards. Obeying parents, striving for the mark, being the best, not fornicating with everything that walks. Thats the bible.

This is america.
-If it has two legs. Speaks your language. And looks fine. Then its up for grabs.
-If your chilling with your friends and there seems like nothing fun to do. Grab a couple beers and hit the road.
-seeing as wearing your pants with a belt just seems to affect thinking on the brain at a young age take your belt off and pull your pants down past your boxers and we guareentee a 50% increase in thinking capacity ^_~

America governs itself with its own rules and adorns itslef in whatever it wants. Its true our government is off doing its own thing but thats mainly because most of the people are too *well My mom says bush is the better choice so im voting for him*. Americans are for the most part lazy selfish people.

Not all but the majority are. Thats why we see so much obesity over here. No one moderates much of anything. Instead of taking time out of our days to actually learn something most of us rot our brains out playing video games non-stop (though some video games do teach you(exhibit A-the game bully, I hear you do math and some other basic courses in there. Exhibit b- college football. Some classwork in there too)) but case is. We do what makes us feel good only living for ourselves and not caring about anybody else.

I live in america and I can say this because I used to live the same way. >.>
Plus as stated before. Our hics and rednecks are too pridefull about themselves to care about changing their ways. They go on the system of *maby if I do something enough times the exact same way something new will happen*
You dont get new results doing the EXACT same thing over and over and over again. Youll get the same results every time.

I dont hate america or americans. They hate me ^_~

[nikz]

My experience is that Americans are terrible at geography. This is not something I herd but actually experienced. I told an American that i was from NewZealand there first question was oh is part of Europe. I had previously told them that it was winter at the moment and as it's summer in the nothern hemisphere i think that it would be pretty obvious that it is not part of Europe.

Though its not just America my sister was in Canada and told them that she was from NZ and there response was "oh! your English is really good"

[Ishikawa Oshro]

well you cant blame geography on the US in particular.
That would all depend on the type of school you go to.

Some schools have a greater emphasis on things and diminish other things.
Like my middle school. Our science class wasent as great as the other middle school science classes in my area but we had GREAT history teachers.

All depends on what gets approved although the schools are in the same district different things get approved by the principals.
Like our middle school did a graduation for 8th grade while the other schools just got a "GET THE H&^% OUT!!!!!.

[Dee-Zaster]

Also, we have the hardest working people in the world. We always have, and we still are. No other nation works as hard as the workers in the US. Also, where would the world be without the United States innovation of years past? Have we gotten away from it recently? Sure have, but that is mostly because the government is practically chasing American business away with the second highest business tax on the planet, taking innovators with them.


Whoa-wa-no. Japan can arguably have the hardest working people in the world. Common man, their school curriculum is intense as well as the competition for the best jobs and whatnot. xP

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Whoa-wa-no. Japan can arguably have the hardest working people in the world. Common man, their school curriculum is intense as well as the competition for the best jobs and whatnot. xP

Though always remember after the U.S beat Japan they told japan that japan would not be allowed to mobilize an army to big. Basically there army was restricted to a certain # cut.
The U.S is Japans army and japan is the U.s's research burea.

So basically Japanese citizens dont have much else to do other than get smart and make kewl robots that we all love to play with ^_^

Goes off to play with japanese imported robots XP

[Kochiha]

It's funny that you bring that up. The Japanese national defense forces are working on military technology...based on systems seen in various Gundam serieses.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

theyll officially rule us all one day
May God grace our souls wiith opersonalized gundams also that come rising from the ground ^_^

[Fat1Fared]

Whoa-wa-no. Japan can arguably have the hardest working people in the world. Common man, their school curriculum is intense as well as the competition for the best jobs and whatnot. xP

I already said this, but was told japan isn't advanced enough to rival USA <facepalm>

[Orga777]

I already said this, but was told japan isn't advanced enough to rival USA <facepalm>

Um... I never said that Japan wasn't advanced... Nice way to put words in my mouth there Fared... XD I also never said the Japanese weren't hard working either for that matter. Just that Americans tend to work hard no MATTER the job they get.... usually.

Unless you are talking about someone else that is...

Oh, and school cirriculum over in Japan is tough as hell. No denying that. But I am talking about overall work-load schedule. Hell, people over here want MORE hours while they are getting their hours cut instead.

[OverMind]

I already said this, but was told japan isn't advanced enough to rival USA <facepalm>

I don't think "advanced" is the correct term. Both countries are developed, and belong to the prestigious G8 league of nations. Japan is just as "advanced" as the US, perhaps even besting it in some areas (i.e. robotics, perhaps?, health care).

However, if you look at all criterion, such as resources, economy, military, and the sciences, then the US definitely bests Japan, as a whole. They are a superpower with one of the largest countries in the world, right?

[Fat1Fared]

I don't think "advanced" is the correct term. Both countries are developed, and belong to the prestigious G8 league of nations. Japan is just as "advanced" as the US, perhaps even besting it in some areas (i.e. robotics, perhaps?, health care).

However, if you look at all criterion, such as resources, economy, military, and the sciences, then the US definitely bests Japan, as a whole. They are a superpower with one of the largest countries in the world, right?

Overmind, would have have to read comments from whole thing, isn't which county is best, I would say both Japan and USA are 1st world countries, and so under Orga's test, could be compared and Japan is harder working than USA:-in same way USA is probably rather working than England, but he was saying that japan was economically and socially 2nd or 3rd world country, which is rubbish:-

Orga, bascially said USA is hard working county in world, so I said no China this is, and his rebuttal to this, was that China isn't 1st world country (whatever difference that makes) So I said what about Japan than, and he kept giving me reasons why Japan cannot count, because not as powerful as USA

And

[Orga777]

Overmind, would have have to read comments from whole thing, isn't which county is best, I would say both Japan and USA are 1st world countries, and so under Orga's test, could be compared and Japan is harder working than USA:-in same way USA is probably rather working than England, but he was saying that japan was economically and socially 2nd or 3rd world country, which is rubbish:-

Well, either you are an idiot, or you have short term memory loss, because I never said, nor imply that Japan was a Second or Third World Nation.

Orga, bascially said USA is hard working county in world, so I said no China this is, and his rebuttal to this, was that China isn't 1st world country (whatever difference that makes) So I said what about Japan than, and he kept giving me reasons why Japan cannot count, because not as powerful as USA

I said of the devloped nations. China is not developed yet. I also never said that Japan did not count on the fact it was not powerful. lolz... You are the biggest violator of putting words in peoples mouths aren;t you? Tell me, has anyone punched you for doing that yet? Because I find that pretty insulting when people do that to me.

I actually went with total hours of working. Japan was just under the USA in that catagory, but you wrote that off as "EBIL LIEING STATISTICS!!!!111!1!" despite it being very had to lie in a statistic by averaged working hours of a country since that is all plugged in at companies and what not.

[Fat1Fared]

Sorry, I retrack my comment, I just check over it, was complete mermoy lost there (me being idiot) and Orga is right for some reason I got Japan and Chinra debate mixed up in my head, so he is right, he didn't say that about japan,

Though, I still think we say japan is harder working, to point that it is hell

This is comment, remembered wrong:-

China is still well behind the rest of the Developed Nations when it comes to the country being built up fully. I don't deny their influence, but overall, the country is not quite developed as the West is. Look at the standards of living and more people in the West has better standards than those in China. No if, and, or buts.



Problem. Japan relies on the United States to stay afloat itself. If we totally collapse economically, do you know who is coming with us? Japan. Why? Because Japan is the largest producers of technology in the world. The United States makes up the largest market of buyers for their electronics and cars. If we collapse, Japan goes bankrupt as well because the largest buyer of their goods is GONE. And since Japan has to rely on exports for most of their food, they will be even worse than teh USA because at least the USA still has a large producing grain market. So they need us as much as we need them. We have been connected at the hip since the end of World War II.

And sorry, the United States is the worlds largest Economy. Japan is second though.

EDIT: I saw this about a year ago, and the old story was taken off Yahoo for being too old, but here is the artical reposted on another site:
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20080203213352787

What is that world about the US having dumb people? I wonder where we got it from? ;)

[Orga777]

Sorry, I retrack my comment, was mermoy lost there (me being idiot) and Orga is right for some reason I got Japan and Chinra debate mixed up in my head, so he is right

Apology accepted. I will also apologize for going off like that, but when people put words in my mouth I get VERY hot under the collar... XD

Though, I still think we say japan is harder working, to point that it is hell

It is hell, I agree. I will always say that Japanese students are teh hardest working students in the world. Because they are. Six days of school from, what? 8-3? Not counting the students who go to Cram School at night? Yeah, that is a brutal schedule indeed. But even very lowly educated Americans can be extremely hard workers in the work force, which is why i won't take back what I said. Americans, for teh most part, work very hard at what ever it is they do, even if they despise the job with a passion, it doesn't deter them from trying to get it finished to the best of their ability.

[HolyShadow]

Orga, try living where I do. There are no jobs and a good number of those on welfare don't want there to be jobs. One of my aunts has 8 kids so she can receive a check from the government every month. It's pathetic.

A lot of Americans work hard. A lot of Americans are lazy fatasses. You can't just make a blanket statement that Americans are hardworking without taking these people into account. While on the average, Americans may work harder, lumping these drains on the economy with hardworking Americans is insulting to those who are working and unnecessarily flattering those who aren't.

[Orga777]

Orga, try living where I do. There are no jobs and a good number of those on welfare don't want there to be jobs. One of my aunts has 8 kids so she can receive a check from the government every month. It's pathetic.

Welfare slobs are one thing SR. Those people sicken me. Living off tax-payers like leeches... Especially the scum that don't try to even get jobs. If there is going to be Welfare at all, there should be two things that should be implemented. 1) No more children if you get on the system and if this is broken all the children are taken away. No exceptions. 2) It is not permanent. If they don't find a job after a certain amount of time, sucks to be them and they get taken off the system. I think it would solve most of the issues of the Welfare system really.

A lot of Americans work hard. A lot of Americans are lazy fatasses. You can't just make a blanket statement that Americans are hardworking without taking these people into account. While on the average, Americans may work harder, lumping these drains on the economy with hardworking Americans is insulting to those who are working and unnecessarily flattering those who aren't.

I will agree with this actually. Sad to say, but you are right... though the average is what interests me more than the leeches. XD

[HolyShadow]

For here, I have a plan that I wish I hhad the connections and support to implement.

One: Hire x number of welfare officers to check on cases here. Hire them from out of state to prevent people from having their friends falsify their report. Check every single case in the state. Hire only people who have passed certain tests to make sure that they'll do their job properly without any corruption.

Two: Make it much harder to get on welfare. Making it temporary may raise certain problems at this point, so that would have to wait. This will force all of the lazier people to leave the state and find somewhere else to leech off of.

Three: Buy up land here and there from people who really aren't using it. Make sure it's in a fairly out-of-the-way location and you won't destroy too many trees in the next step. There are plenty of locations here like that.

Four: Sell those locations for a slightly higher price to businesses to have them move in.

Five: Significantly lower taxes on the middle class and on businesses. With business and industry here, people will be able to get more jobs and therefore pay taxes, eliminating the need to overtax the harder-working people. In addition, the money that the middle-class make won't go as much to welfare.

Six: Make it harder to get on welfare and stabilize taxes.

It'll keep the middle-class, lower-class, and upper-class happy. I think it would work here very well. It requires a bit of spending at first, but after that, taxes would go down and the amount earned would go up. Pollution would go up slightly, but as long as it's not too overbearing, people shouldn't care that much.

[Fat1Fared]

No, I am sorry, as I too hate when poeple put things in your mouth, most of time merely comes from misunderstanding like this (where doing to much revision, has fried my brain lol) but unlike most I will admit when made mistake,


It is hell, I agree. I will always say that Japanese students are teh hardest working students in the world. Because they are. Six days of school from, what? 8-3? Not counting the students who go to Cram School at night? Yeah, that is a brutal schedule indeed. But even very lowly educated Americans can be extremely hard workers in the work force, which is why i won't take back what I said. Americans, for teh most part, work very hard at what ever it is they do, even if they despise the job with a passion, it doesn't deter them from trying to get it finished to the best of their ability.

Thing is, I wouldn't say USA is lazy country it is made out to be, as cannot be as powerful as it is, without some level of effort lol, but cannot just say work longer hours, as Japanese normally and unoffically work from 8AM to 10PM and in that time the targets they have to meet are insane, all I can say is my stepdad works in both USA and Japan (though Japan more,) and he will tell you both, work harder than is sane, (as english on whole are kind of lazy (i won't lie there,) and we have a do as much as is needed, without doing more view lol) but we could have moved to Japan and he turned it down, as he refused to do Japanese life style, of work (once one of them waited till something like 12Am their time, to ring him, so got him at good time our end, because wanted to keep him happy as client, another got on plane to england, no questions asked, in order to have meeting, now that is deadaction to your job)

Cannot just look at statistic's of hours, got to look at what do in that time and unoffically hours, like said, USA isn't lazy, but Japan, is just mad

-As they also used targeting system of work, where have to have so much done, in this amount of time and it is mad as well. There education system is similar to work system, so both are mad:-

[Tristan's Voice]

It's not a dead topic if it's on the first page.

Overall, I think the majority are stupid.

Like at a school Election.

"I'll do my best for the school!"

"I'll shave my head and wear a hat"

"A-DRI-AN! A-DRI-AN!"

Just thinking about it makes me mad

[Serial Ulyssicider]

The majority of Americans are, in fact, dumb.
Not in terms of intelligence, but in attitudes and in they way that most of them react to things.
Things like casual conversation.
Although, I personally think that people overuse the word dumb when generalising about Americans, firstly, because it is wrong, American people are usually quite smart, secondly, because it is an unfair generalisation.
A fair one would be to call most Americans ignorant, or at least objectionable in their point of view of their country.
Only in America could a religion spring up about the garden of Eden being in Wisconsin, and that Native Americans were once the chosen people of Jerusalem whose skin was smote by God for their betrayal.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

The majority of Americans are, in fact, dumb.
Not in terms of intelligence, but in attitudes and in they way that most of them react to things.
Things like casual conversation.
Although, I personally think that people overuse the word dumb when generalising about Americans, firstly, because it is wrong, American people are usually quite smart, secondly, because it is an unfair generalisation.
A fair one would be to call most Americans ignorant, or at least objectionable in their point of view of their country.
Only in America could a religion spring up about the garden of Eden being in Wisconsin, and that Native Americans were once the chosen people of Jerusalem whose skin was smote by God for their betrayal.

Woah. Whered that come from lolz. Native americans being the choosen people of GOD.
I believe you are in fact the american hehehe j/k

[Serial Ulyssicider]

Woah. Whered that come from lolz. Native americans being the choosen people of GOD.
I believe you are in fact the american hehehe j/k

I'm pretty sure its Morman, or ... fuck knows, I just know of the existance of said religion.
Its pretty fucked up for sure.

[WeirdSmells]

its not that americans are dumb(maybe not) its just that they are stuck in there own little world and dont giv a hoot about others worlds unless it either benefits or relates to them. so they are more IGNORANT then dumb, but generally becuz of all them Hicks and red necks (not to beconfuzed with farmers and southerners but they acual ppl that fall into the hick and redneck hill billy stereo-type) america is pretty dumb

Saying all of us are hicks and rednecks seems pretty damn ignorant to me.

[musicfreak9000]

most of them care more about there little world (same here in britian) and dont care about the rest of the world

[ThePop]

You can't really blame Americans though, as their public education system is horrible. Teachers are too textbook based as well.

[HolyShadow]

You can't really blame Americans though, as their public education system is horrible. Teachers are too textbook based as well.
It's because we can vote.

[Fenrir502]

People are the same everywhere in the world. There will be nice people and nasty people, ignorant people and considerate people. Just as there will be people who feel they are superior to other people.

That being said, if you would just take the time to look around even the internet you'd find out how wrong your statement is.

Play an online game and you'll find plenty of nasty, ignorant people. I was shocked when I heard that some American games actually block people from other countries from playing, simply because American gamers want slightly less laggy games. Contrast, you have to look no further than this site to find intelligent, polite and charming Americans.

[Xanadu]

well this is a show a canadian comedian did and...well your old president was a piece of work
(note Poutine is a food-its french fries with melted cheese curds and gravy on top-a very popular food only in canada) when he came here for the first time he said on our national TV (before he left) to some reporters
"I wish I could have met Jean Poutine"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seYUbVa7L7w
(also note Canadian politicians never ever endorse american ones)

[HolyShadow]

People are the same everywhere in the world. There will be nice people and nasty people, ignorant people and considerate people. Just as there will be people who feel they are superior to other people.

That being said, if you would just take the time to look around even the internet you'd find out how wrong your statement is.

Play an online game and you'll find plenty of nasty, ignorant people. I was shocked when I heard that some American games actually block people from other countries from playing, simply because American gamers want slightly less laggy games. Contrast, you have to look no further than this site to find intelligent, polite and charming Americans.
...? That last part confused me. When I look at myself, I'm not... okay, I'm intelligent. But I'm not... well, I'm polite to most people, just not people who're really stupid or annoying... but when it comes to charming... oh, who am I kidding? I write fucking poetry. That automatically makes me charming.

[maisetofan]

well america does have John stewart, so it cant be all bad xD
oh and Larry david, who created seinfeld and curb your enthusiasm

oh and oliver stone
BEST DIRECTOR EVER!!!

And the government itself it not/was not stupid, its the people who make up of congress that are themselves stupid XD

[Ishikawa Oshro]

To be bluntly honest. There are way too many dividing factors in the stupidity of america. I believe its because america is all about "ME" No one really cares about others until themselves are taken care of first. OIr their certain group is taken care of.

I posted in this in another thread and it depicts humanity on a wide scale. I asked if people could kill an innocent man to save their friend under certain conditions. And the majority would indeed kill said innocent man to save their friend. But no one would kill the innocent man to save a random person theyve never met because they themselves dont understand the worth of that said man to another person.

And this pretty much depicts america. If the worth isent there then theres no point in really doing it. Half the wars we have been in have all been because they would benefit us or we were protecting ourselves somehow. Were in the middle east they say to save the people from their torn government. Sounds great., But in reality were after resources and allies. They have oil and we need and want it.

The people themselves are usually to themselves. People really could give a hoot about you in the streets. Most americans walk with an air about them that makes them seem like the main character in an anime or popular show when in fact all they really are is just another supporting cast member in the major plot until fate or a good friend ^_~ decides to give them a bigger position but even thgen there still only a supporting cast member. The world dosent revolve around any one person though sometimes it seems that way.
In short americans have this "The world revovles around me" kind of mentality. But its thanks to that mentalitiy tht good americans can be born and become great assets to our world. They see the attitudes of their bretheren and they want nothing to do with it. So they develop their own life styles or try to be the opposite of what their peers have become.

And then this branches down to the sub categories as in gangs and what not. Social classes. And ya keep breaking it down.

[HolyShadow]

To be bluntly honest. There are way too many dividing factors in the stupidity of america. I believe its because america is all about "ME" No one really cares about others until themselves are taken care of first. Or their certain group is taken care of.

What's wrong with taking care of the people close to you? Absolutely nothing. These are people that you've touched. You know them far more than some stranger. The difference is that you shouldn't need to know that stranger. Their life is just as valuable; just not to you. However, their life has value to someone. That's what we should understand.


I posted in this in another thread and it depicts humanity on a wide scale. I asked if people could kill an innocent man to save their friend under certain conditions. And the majority would indeed kill said innocent man to save their friend. But no one would kill the innocent man to save a random person theyve never met because they themselves dont understand the worth of that said man to another person.This:

"How about this one. I have my own answer but it troubles me.
Here are the scenairos.

You get a random call from a random person. they tell you that they have a building with x amount of hostages inside and they have the explosive power to blow the building sky high along with the hostages. To further prove to you their telling you to the truth they allow you to see a live feed through a special channel on your television to see the hostages are real. And to show once more they are legit they blow a car sky high outside your house to show they have explosives also. Now the hostages lives are in danger. And the killer tells you that in order to save the hostages you must kill x person in x amount of time. And x person is completly innocent and the killer makes this known to you. X person has a family wife and kids. They live an honest life.

Could you kill that x person to save the hostages?
Why or why not?"

Correct?

I believe 100% of the people that answered this said they'd rather get them to switch the kill to themselves, then commit suicide. I was one of them.

And this pretty much depicts america. If the worth isent there then theres no point in really doing it. Half the wars we have been in have all been because they would benefit us or we were protecting ourselves somehow. Were in the middle east they say to save the people from their torn government. Sounds great., But in reality were after resources and allies. They have oil and we need and want it. What's wrong with that? We're animals. Domination is in our blood. We should dominate the world and take it for ourselves.

The people themselves are usually to themselves. People really could give a hoot about you in the streets. Most americans walk with an air about them that makes them seem like the main character in an anime or popular show when in fact all they really are is just another supporting cast member in the major plot until fate or a good friend ^_~ decides to give them a bigger position but even thgen there still only a supporting cast member. The world dosent revolve around any one person though sometimes it seems that way.I am te main character of my own story. You are the main character of your own story. There's no way to see it any other way. However, what we really don't understand is that everyone else is indeed a main character, not a supporting role. Everyone's life is precious to them. In fact, it's the most precious thing in the world; that's why sacrificing your life for someone is a huge gesture. Otherwise, it would be, "Okay, worthless person. Thanks, I guess."

In short americans have this "The world revovles around me" kind of mentality. But its thanks to that mentalitiy tht good americans can be born and become great assets to our world. They see the attitudes of their bretheren and they want nothing to do with it. So they develop their own life styles or try to be the opposite of what their peers have become.In short, they're unique-- just like everybody else. Rejecting others gets you nowhere. Live with others. Make friends. Decide for yourself what is beneficial and not toward your growth. We're not meant to be perfect, and that growth is very important. Isolating yourself is too sad to do with your life.

And then this branches down to the sub categories as in gangs and what not. Social classes. And ya keep breaking it down.Okay... I think I... kinda understand. Not all social classes are bad, you know. Jocks may be stereotypically stupid, but it doesn't mean that they don't have their place. In fact, sports teaches them that they aren't the main character; they're part of a team. In fact, isolating yourself forces you to become the only character in your story, and therefore the main character. Working with others makes you more aware of your place in the world.

Group things are good, not bad.

[Fenrir502]

We're animals. Domination is in our blood. We should dominate the world and take it for ourselves.


That's the only thing you said above I would disagree with. Animal's do not 'dominate,' they survive.

[killshot]

"How about this one. I have my own answer but it troubles me.
Here are the scenairos.

You get a random call from a random person. they tell you that they have a building with x amount of hostages inside and they have the explosive power to blow the building sky high along with the hostages. To further prove to you their telling you to the truth they allow you to see a live feed through a special channel on your television to see the hostages are real. And to show once more they are legit they blow a car sky high outside your house to show they have explosives also. Now the hostages lives are in danger. And the killer tells you that in order to save the hostages you must kill x person in x amount of time. And x person is completly innocent and the killer makes this known to you. X person has a family wife and kids. They live an honest life.

Could you kill that x person to save the hostages?
Why or why not?"

Correct?

I believe 100% of the people that answered this said they'd rather get them to switch the kill to themselves, then commit suicide. I was one of them.

Sorry to just jump into this conversation, but I wanted to answer this.

I believe my choice in this scenario would be to hang up the phone and call the police. I also think that this is the most sensible thing to do in the case you have just presented. The choices that we are provided all end with the death of an innocent person (I'm assuming the hostage(s) are innocent) so why get involved when nothing you do can change the outcome? I'm assuming you made a typo when you said 100% of people chose suicide, especially since that option wasn't even an available answer choice. Why kill yourself over strangers? By that logic, shouldn't you just donate every organ in your body and save multiple lives? No one does that in real life even though they claim they would take a bullet (or some other melodramatic form of self-sacrifice) in order to save someone's life. When it comes right down to it, people have just been watching too much TV. Death isn't quite as romantic in real life as it is in the movies. I doubt anyone would willingly sacrifice themselves for a stranger outside of hypothetical scenario's such as this.

[HolyShadow]

Sorry to just jump into this conversation, but I wanted to answer this.

I believe my choice in this scenario would be to hang up the phone and call the police. I also think that this is the most sensible thing to do in the case you have just presented. The choices that we are provided all end with the death of an innocent person (I'm assuming the hostage(s) are innocent) so why get involved when nothing you do can change the outcome? I'm assuming you made a typo when you said 100% of people chose suicide, especially since that option wasn't even an available answer choice. Why kill yourself over strangers? By that logic, shouldn't you just donate every organ in your body and save multiple lives? No one does that in real life even though they claim they would take a bullet (or some other melodramatic form of self-sacrifice) in order to save someone's life. When it comes right down to it, people have just been watching too much TV. Death isn't quite as romantic in real life as it is in the movies. I doubt anyone would willingly sacrifice themselves for a stranger outside of hypothetical scenario's such as this.
100% of the people in that thread answered with suicide. I know I did.

The point of my life is to take over hell and kill Satan, then take over earth. Due to my limitations, this is impossible. Therefore, I have no reason to live.

Death is beautiful. After death, you feel nothing. All contemplation is lost. All that's left is an eternal dream of nothingness. I like that.

I've offered myself as a scapegoat for a beating several times from bullies. Not once did they hit me in their place. They just walk away. People are cowards...

There's only one thing I fear and that's small, harmless insects.

That's the only thing you said above I would disagree with. Animal's do not 'dominate,' they survive.

Yeah, no. Animals are extremely dominating creatures. After all, it's the difference between a dog obeying its master and a dog mauling an unknown guy for entering into its home unarmed.

Dogs respect those that dominate them. Domination is in their blood and it's also in ours, especially as carnivorous as we are. Eating animals makes us predators, regardless of how we go about it. This means that we dominate the animals by killing them, and then eating them. Whether survival is the primary aspect or not, that domination is an active part of the hunt.

Most animals are extremely dominating. Especially dogs. I've had three, and all they care about is dominating each other. For a less extreme example, my male dog will pee, then my female dog will pee on top of it to symbolize that the yard belongs to her, not him.

[ChaosVincent1]

At least anyone who isn't worried about the government trying to overreach their bounds at this very moment.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

What's wrong with taking care of the people close to you? Absolutely nothing. These are people that you've touched. You know them far more than some stranger. The difference is that you shouldn't need to know that stranger. Their life is just as valuable; just not to you. However, their life has value to someone. That's what we should understand.

I never did say anything was wrong with taking care of those close to you. But at what price wiull you go to ensure the safety of those closest to you?

I believe 100% of the people that answered this said they'd rather get them to switch the kill to themselves, then commit suicide. I was one of them.

Are you really being honest with yourself -__-. I did this survey with friends and some people that were quaintces and those that took the test SERIOUSLY said that they would most likely kill x person to deff save their family and most importantly Spouse. And then the results switch up when you cvhange x person to kill to save a group of hostages. But the main point of the quiz is the fact that without realizing it we put in a weird kinda way worth on people. And its natural yes. But through this quiz it depicts the nature of humanity.
We really dont think of others we may hurt as long as those we care for most are taken care of first.
And SR im pretty sure you were joking about trying to take over the world. But in jist thats just odd. I can get ya help if you need it XP

What's wrong with that? We're animals. Domination is in our blood. We should dominate the world and take it for ourselves.

That statement is BULL. Completle malarkey. Humans are not animals and I refuse to be classifiied in the same category. We may be similar in genetic make up for some aspects but humans are humans for a reason. We have comunication. we are ablke to adapt to almost any environment. And not to mention we have the all dominating all powerfull THUMB!!!!!
Science can say whatever they want but humans are not animals.

I am te main character of my own story. You are the main character of your own story. There's no way to see it any other way. However, what we really don't understand is that everyone else is indeed a main character, not a supporting role. Everyone's life is precious to them. In fact, it's the most precious thing in the world; that's why sacrificing your life for someone is a huge gesture. Otherwise, it would be, "Okay, worthless person. Thanks, I guess."

Either way of saying it works perfectly fine. I say supporting cast member though because a main character has EVERYTHING revovle around them. When in fact life dosent role that way. Some days your gonna be left out. Some days you just may die un expected. And their may be no one who even gives a hoot. Others like jackson may have the world revere him for a while. But after a while. All he will be is a name in a book and a remnant of the past. Supporting cast members work tpghether to get something done and when they disseapear and some of the audience greives for them for a while. but then life continues as usual. Supporting cast emmbers arent any special than any other cast member though one may help to advance the plot further than another.
But this really isent worth going any deeper in lolz

Okay... I think I... kinda understand. Not all social classes are bad, you know. Jocks may be stereotypically stupid, but it doesn't mean that they don't have their place. In fact, sports teaches them that they aren't the main character; they're part of a team. In fact, isolating yourself forces you to become the only character in your story, and therefore the main character. Working with others makes you more aware of your place in the world.

Group things are good, not bad

Groups arent bad at all. But I was more or less hinting at ythe fact that groups teach you to take care of your group only. As in gangs. Though they really have to stay close and kill anyopne who opposes them there mentality is that therethe most important and they'll do whatever it takes to make it to then end.

Docial classes are more for the higher ups. Poverty usually produces people with good morals and also angry individuals. but its about the rich part of the social class. Theyll do whatever it takes to maintain there power. And they usually helkp each other as long as it benefits themselves. But after a while it becomes a lifestyle all about ME ME ME.

I believe my choice in this scenario would be to hang up the phone and call the police. I also think that this is the most sensible thing to do in the case you have just presented. The choices that we are provided all end with the death of an innocent person (I'm assuming the hostage(s) are innocent) so why get involved when nothing you do can change the outcome?

I think most people answered like you at first killshot. But then I posed to some that somneone would be dying in 5 seconds adding some pressure. Either the hostages or the loved one would die. Its a panic situation. And if you remain calm for too long then someone is dying. The whole point is for you to make a choice. not to find a loopho0le in my not too great ploit twist hehehehe

[Fat1Fared]

100% of the people in that thread answered with suicide. I know I did.


Ever heard of hawthorne effect or demand charactistic's?

-Holy we have done this before where you do one of these little questions, and your results are far from valid,
=sometimes, poeple merely answer what think is right answer and what everyone wants to hear,

=others may even believe that they will do this "noble" (and put noble in quotes for reason, as in end it is a pointless act to me and probably won't even get you result you want) act, but then push comes along and they find that infact, they cant do it and don't want to die. Every few poeple are like the ones shown in movies and you yourself have said many times, that they can lie and are selfish

=have any of the poeple you questioned ever been in such a thing (and remember if you answer no, makes your point invalid, if answer yes, proves me right, as their still here)

Holy, you also fail to understand just what a deep and complex question you are asking, I mean you cannot simply compare the worth of human life like mathicmatical sum, (you should read works of Thomas Acqumus (LOL)) you need to look at it in far deeper way than that:-

But Basically can you really base the value of life on someones actions alone?
=And do really believe, any answer is right? I mean lets take your answer, just because you kill yourself, doesn't mean you win and stop an "evil" act, an "innocence" (and you are an inncocence in this) still dies and so hostage takers still win!
=This is why your act is pointless, and I'm not even going to try and answer your question, bacause it is clearly unanswerable, who actually knows what they will do, until in this situration (most will probably see it as a joke, when someone says that to them and hang up)

-As for animals, well depends on the Animal, all animals life to survive and some like to be donimant, however I agree humans are an animal

[Fenrir502]

Yeah, no. Animals are extremely dominating creatures. After all, it's the difference between a dog obeying its master and a dog mauling an unknown guy for entering into its home unarmed.

Dogs respect those that dominate them. Domination is in their blood and it's also in ours, especially as carnivorous as we are. Eating animals makes us predators, regardless of how we go about it. This means that we dominate the animals by killing them, and then eating them. Whether survival is the primary aspect or not, that domination is an active part of the hunt.

Most animals are extremely dominating. Especially dogs. I've had three, and all they care about is dominating each other. For a less extreme example, my male dog will pee, then my female dog will pee on top of it to symbolize that the yard belongs to her, not him.

They are all exaples of domination, yes, however, first and foremost, the reason behind the actions is survival.

Eating animals does make us predators. The reason predators kill is not to assert power over other animals, it's to survive. I don't know of an animal that kills for fun in the way that people do.

There is no difference between a dog obeying it's master and mauling a stranger. A stranger is an unknown to the dog: a trespasser. It could create competition for food and water, thereby endangering the pack's lives. Hence the territory thing they do.

That statement is BULL. Completle malarkey. Humans are not animals and I refuse to be classifiied in the same category. We may be similar in genetic make up for some aspects but humans are humans for a reason. We have comunication. we are ablke to adapt to almost any environment. And not to mention we have the all dominating all powerfull THUMB!!!!!
Science can say whatever they want but humans are not animals.

May I just say that while you are entitled to your own opinion and whatnot, I must express my disdain for this statement. Frankly, I find it quite insulting. Have you ever had a pet? I have had many, and from this experience I can tell you that there is no more difference between a human and a bird than there is between a dog and a cat.

Most mammals feel pain, most mammals think, learn and love. They protect their loved ones, and they educate their young. That sounds pretty human to me. So I cannot understand why you would feel them to be so inferior that it is painful to be compared to them. Also: We may have a thumb... but do you really think that is a good reason to be considered superior? Do we have wings? Can we breathe under water?

We have communication? What do you think animals sounds are, ways to pass the time? It's difficult to say for certain if it's language, but saying it's not communication would be foolish.

[capler]

That statement is BULL. Completle malarkey. Humans are not animals and I refuse to be classifiied in the same category. We may be similar in genetic make up for some aspects but humans are humans for a reason. We have comunication. we are ablke to adapt to almost any environment. And not to mention we have the all dominating all powerfull THUMB!!!!!
Science can say whatever they want but humans are not animals.


What are you, American? Ha ha joke ha.
But seriously. We're classified the same way we classify other organisms, and we are grouped in the Animalia kingdom. Which makes us animals. Whether you like it or not. There's really no sense arguing that fact, and it's that sort of opinion that most likely influences us to be as destructive as we are. And blah blah blah etcetera so on and so forth. We're nothing more than whiny, self-centric meatbags.

Some monkeys have thumbs too. On their hands AND feet. Wouldn't that make them better than us?

Anyway- are Americans dumb?

Short answer: Some are, some aren't.

That goes for every country in the world, however. Stupidity isn't just an American affliction. If by 'dumb' you mean 'ignorant', then I'd be more inclined to agree. However, once again, not everyone in America is ignorant, and ignorance can be found anywhere in the world. It could be that Americans are educated less in certain areas due to old retained habits of when it had a more isolationist approach to the rest of the world. Either way, there really isn't a definitive answer.

[HolyShadow]

I never did say anything was wrong with taking care of those close to you. But at what price wiull you go to ensure the safety of those closest to you?

The same price I would a stranger.



Are you really being honest with yourself -__-. I did this survey with friends and some people that were quaintces and those that took the test SERIOUSLY said that they would most likely kill x person to deff save their family and most importantly Spouse. And then the results switch up when you cvhange x person to kill to save a group of hostages. But the main point of the quiz is the fact that without realizing it we put in a weird kinda way worth on people. And its natural yes. But through this quiz it depicts the nature of humanity.
We really dont think of others we may hurt as long as those we care for most are taken care of first.
And SR im pretty sure you were joking about trying to take over the world. But in jist thats just odd. I can get ya help if you need it XP

I've never valued my life.

That statement is BULL. Completle malarkey. Humans are not animals and I refuse to be classifiied in the same category. We may be similar in genetic make up for some aspects but humans are humans for a reason. We have comunication. we are ablke to adapt to almost any environment. And not to mention we have the all dominating all powerfull THUMB!!!!!
Science can say whatever they want but humans are not animals.

Humans are monkeys. Live with it.

Either way of saying it works perfectly fine. I say supporting cast member though because a main character has EVERYTHING revovle around them. When in fact life dosent role that way. Some days your gonna be left out. Some days you just may die un expected. And their may be no one who even gives a hoot. Others like jackson may have the world revere him for a while. But after a while. All he will be is a name in a book and a remnant of the past. Supporting cast members work tpghether to get something done and when they disseapear and some of the audience greives for them for a while. but then life continues as usual. Supporting cast emmbers arent any special than any other cast member though one may help to advance the plot further than another.
But this really isent worth going any deeper in lolz

Everything does revolve around me. I see things in the first-person, and therefore, everything that happens to me, happens to me. The things that don't happen to me don't happen in my eyes because I don't see them, and therefore don't exist.

Groups arent bad at all. But I was more or less hinting at ythe fact that groups teach you to take care of your group only. As in gangs. Though they really have to stay close and kill anyopne who opposes them there mentality is that therethe most important and they'll do whatever it takes to make it to then end.

So you're saying gangs are bad? WELL, CALL RIPLEYS!

Docial classes are more for the higher ups. Poverty usually produces people with good morals and also angry individuals. but its about the rich part of the social class. Theyll do whatever it takes to maintain there power. And they usually helkp each other as long as it benefits themselves. But after a while it becomes a lifestyle all about ME ME ME.

What's wrong with that? You're the main character, after all. Everything does happen to you. However, you have to realize that they are a 'me' as well, so you have to do something for them.

I think most people answered like you at first killshot. But then I posed to some that somneone would be dying in 5 seconds adding some pressure. Either the hostages or the loved one would die. Its a panic situation. And if you remain calm for too long then someone is dying. The whole point is for you to make a choice. not to find a loopho0le in my not too great ploit twist hehehehe
Then I'll change my answer. Kill my loved one. I'll pray to my God to forgive me and take my own life soon after.

In a utilitarian point of view, one life = one life. One life < Two lives. To save two and sacrifice one would be the wisest choice. Most people view their lives as 1. I view it as 0. Therefore, to sacrifice my life to save one person would be natural. To sacrifice one life for another is equal. Therefore, other values are factored in, mostly to do with their own value. Because I don't know them well enough, emotions kick in. If I know them, I'll know their value. Therefore, the one I don't know is valueless, and no one in my universe will miss them if they die. As bad as I feel about it, that's the way it is.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

May I just say that while you are entitled to your own opinion and whatnot, I must express my disdain for this statement. Frankly, I find it quite insulting. Have you ever had a pet? I have had many, and from this experience I can tell you that there is no more difference between a human and a bird than there is between a dog and a cat.

Most mammals feel pain, most mammals think, learn and love. They protect their loved ones, and they educate their young. That sounds pretty human to me. So I cannot understand why you would feel them to be so inferior that it is painful to be compared to them. Also: We may have a thumb... but do you really think that is a good reason to be considered superior? Do we have wings? Can we breathe under water?

We have communication? What do you think animals sounds are, ways to pass the time? It's difficult to say for certain if it's language, but saying it's not communication would be foolish.

What are you, American? Ha ha joke ha.
But seriously. We're classified the same way we classify other organisms, and we are grouped in the Animalia kingdom. Which makes us animals. Whether you like it or not. There's really no sense arguing that fact, and it's that sort of opinion that most likely influences us to be as destructive as we are. And blah blah blah etcetera so on and so forth. We're nothing more than whiny, self-centric meatbags.

Some monkeys have thumbs too. On their hands AND feet. Wouldn't that make them better than us?

Anyway- are Americans dumb?

Short answer: Some are, some aren't.

That goes for every country in the world, however. Stupidity isn't just an American affliction. If by 'dumb' you mean 'ignorant', then I'd be more inclined to agree. However, once again, not everyone in America is ignorant, and ignorance can be found anywhere in the world. It could be that Americans are educated less in certain areas due to old retained habits of when it had a more isolationist approach to the rest of the world. Either way, there really isn't a definitive answer.

The idea of a thumb was a joke -_-
Thats why there was a ^_~ there lolz

Im guessing this conversation is kinda useless to have with athesist and sun god worshippers >.> *walks away shaking head*

And shining to pretty much sum up eerything youe said. Your odd lolz. Just about anyone with real knowledge would come to understand that a life is the most important thing in this world. But then again I guess if you dont believe in the whole soul thing it takes away from your worth. But your life is really all you know you have. It affects others and no matter how hard you try to not make an impact on this world or you try to stay hidden. Youll always effect something. wether your taking up space. Havin g a short conversation with someone. your always affecting something wether you mean too or not.
And 1 life in no way equals one life. Lives are more than just digits and numbers. Its not a math equation. In terms of math 1-1=0 which would impact nothing and effect nothing. But a life is a lot more than just a digit.

I could honestly understand why someone would kill their loved one. and your honesty is good. But you truly never know what you would really do until the time comes.

You will neer grasp the true torture and torment of losing someone you truly love until you yourself lose someone who you truly and dearly do love. Youll know love when it really comes. And then well see if you can still give that garbage of an answer you gave above.


MALARKY ^_^

[HolyShadow]

I lost my grandmother and younger cousin when I was under 10. I didn't shed a single tear. I understood they were never coming back and I understood that they were in a lot of pain. I understood people around them were crying and I understood why. I just never cried, even though I tried to. I really did love them, but death happens.

[Fenrir502]

Im guessing this conversation is kinda useless to have with athesist and sun god worshippers >.> *walks away shaking head*



Well, I am neither atheist nor sun worshipper, does that mean I have to selfishly believe that only human life is worth preserving?

Seriously, all things are born equal. All things, not just humans.

[HolyShadow]

Well, I am neither atheist nor sun worshipper, does that mean I have to selfishly believe that only human life is worth preserving?

Seriously, all things are born equal. All things, not just humans.
Not really. Currently, humans are the dominant life forum, and is therefore superior.

Now, if an ant were to evolve enough times, it may be superior to use at one point. I don't know.

But for now, humans are the most powerful organisms in the world.

[Fenrir502]

Not really. Currently, humans are the dominant life forum, and is therefore superior.

Now, if an ant were to evolve enough times, it may be superior to use at one point. I don't know.

But for now, humans are the most powerful organisms in the world.

I wouldn't say that, we are the most succesful certainly, but mostly through dumb luck. There is almost no situation in the natural world in which we would not be outperformed by another animal. I don't know, I suppose I just have a dislike of the concept of superiority...

[HolyShadow]

I wouldn't say that, we are the most succesful certainly, but mostly through dumb luck. There is almost no situation in the natural world in which we would not be outperformed by another animal. I don't know, I suppose I just have a dislike of the concept of superiority...
Superiority = Admin

:/

[Fenrir502]

That would be authority, not superiority.

[HolyShadow]

That would be authority, not superiority.
Authority = Superiority

:/

[Rocket]

I love America and the American culture. Despite its flaws (I refer mostly to: a distinct lack of insight/proper emotional intelligence, along with a general lack of responsibility, all of which is facilitated and exacerbated by the mainstream media here), I can never find true fault with the US. It's a young, lovable, kid-appeal country with many lessons to learn, but it is also the first of its kind. The first nation as free as it is, or perhaps was, since certainly things have come a long way in our 200some years.

I love me some America, and I'd never want to live anywhere else, nor would I like to have been born elsewhere to begin with.

[Xanadu]

I am glad I've never had to go there or had to live there
I mean it sounds fine, but all the guns, bible belt in the south, televangelists, geroge bush, wars they get involved in, lack of poutine and timbits, that whole "america is the best country on earth" (not a good way to make friends america lol), the imperial system...
only thing going for it is the lack of -50C weather in the winter, and the perk to say "in america" after every sentence... but thats not enough to leave Canada

[Fenrir502]

And the sunglasses, never forget the sunglasses.

[HolyShadow]

I am glad I've never had to go there or had to live there
I mean it sounds fine, but all the guns, bible belt in the south, televangelists, geroge bush, wars they get involved in, lack of poutine and timbits, that whole "america is the best country on earth" (not a good way to make friends america lol), the imperial system...
only thing going for it is the lack of -50C weather in the winter, and the perk to say "in america" after every sentence... but thats not enough to leave Canada
France thinks they're the best country in the world.

Britain thinks they're the best country in the world.

Canada thinks they're the best country in the world.

China thinks they're the best country in the world.

America thinks they're the be-- WHAT!? UNACCEPTABLE! WE'RE TOTAL CRAP! WE SHOULD ALL SUICIDE BECAUSE WE'RE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!

Yeah, no.

[Xanadu]

I have never heard anyone say canada is the best country in the world
and trust me if they do they are full of shit, but america is a country where your leaders go on tv-and every time they do, say they are the best country in the world
I've never seen canada, the uk or france do that
china...is china...the USSR did the same thing, but they were messed
this is my observation, I don't think me disliking your country because they don't have fries with gravy on them is gonna hurt anyone

[HolyShadow]

I have never heard anyone say canada is the best country in the world
and trust me if they do they are full of shit, but america is a country where your leaders go on tv-and every time they do, say they are the best country in the world
I've never seen canada, the uk or france do that
china...is china...the USSR did the same thing, but they were messed
this is my observation, I don't think me disliking your country because they don't have fries with gravy on them is gonna hurt anyone
I don't care if you dislike our country, but I've met French people who think they're the best in the world and British people who think they're the best in the world.

Never met a chinese person before, but that's just an assumption based on asian culture, their cash, and their communism.

[Xanadu]

There's sh*t apples in every basket man

[HolyShadow]

There's sh*t apples in every basket man
Then there's Japan. They seriously think they're the best in the world.

[Rocket]

It's an American trend to think it's a crappy country, mostly because it allows our government to get away with more while blaming it on "the faults of America," and we people tend to just nod for some God-forsaken reason. While some Americans proclaim that they love their country proudly, there are more (or at the very least just as many) who say it sucks and needs to be policed and changed and etc etc. It's embarrassing really, since as stated most other citizens take better pride in their nations, when often they have less reason to. The mere fact that we CAN say our country sucks gives us so much more reason to love it.

[Xanadu]

Come to canada, then you'll see a country with no patriotism lol

[HolyShadow]

It's an American trend to think it's a crappy country, mostly because it allows our government to get away with more while blaming it on "the faults of America," and we people tend to just nod for some God-forsaken reason. While some Americans proclaim that they love their country proudly, there are more (or at the very least just as many) who say it sucks and needs to be policed and changed and etc etc. It's embarrassing really, since as stated most other citizens take better pride in their nations, when often they have less reason to. The mere fact that we CAN say our country sucks gives us so much more reason to love it.
I think we're pretty good in certain areas and not in others. Just like everywhere else.

[Rocket]

Yeah, that's really the best way to feel about anything in this world. Appreciate what benefits it offers you, but be wary of its faults and never turn your back on them.

[Fat1Fared]

In a utilitarian point of view, one life = one life. One life < Two lives. To save two and sacrifice one would be the wisest choice. Most people view their lives as 1. I view it as 0. Therefore, to sacrifice my life to save one person would be natural. To sacrifice one life for another is equal. Therefore, other values are factored in, mostly to do with their own value. Because I don't know them well enough, emotions kick in. If I know them, I'll know their value. Therefore, the one I don't know is valueless, and no one in my universe will miss them if they die. As bad as I feel about it, that's the way it is.

Holy seeing as ignored my point, about this very thing, I will post it again
=and utilitarism is wrong, the grestest good for greatest number isn't always right way to work, Benthem made some valid points, but overal his ideas lead to things such as work houses and the ideas that allowing some to die, so other could have better life as ok:-

Ever heard of hawthorne effect or demand charactistic's?

-Holy we have done this before where you do one of these little questions, and your results are far from valid,
=sometimes, poeple merely answer what think is right answer and what everyone wants to hear,

=others may even believe that they will do this "noble" (and put noble in quotes for reason, as in end it is a pointless act to me and probably won't even get you result you want) act, but then push comes along and they find that infact, they cant do it and don't want to die. Every few poeple are like the ones shown in movies and you yourself have said many times, that they can lie and are selfish

=have any of the poeple you questioned ever been in such a thing (and remember if you answer no, makes your point invalid, if answer yes, proves me right, as their still here)

Holy, you also fail to understand just what a deep and complex question you are asking, I mean you cannot simply compare the worth of human life like mathicmatical sum, (you should read works of Thomas Acqumus (LOL)) you need to look at it in far deeper way than that:-

But Basically can you really base the value of life on someones actions alone?
=And do really believe, any answer is right? I mean lets take your answer, just because you kill yourself, doesn't mean you win and stop an "evil" act, an "innocence" (and you are an inncocence in this) still dies and so hostage takers still win!
=This is why your act is pointless, and I'm not even going to try and answer your question, bacause it is clearly unanswerable, who actually knows what they will do, until in this situration (most will probably see it as a joke, when someone says that to them and hang up)

-As for animals, well depends on the Animal, all animals life to survive and some like to be donimant, however I agree humans are an animal



Britain thinks they're the best country in the world.

Have you even met someone from Britian lol?
-English Poeple hate england and britian
-Walsh Poeple, hate england and britian
-Scotland, hates England and has 50/50 view on Britian (mainly because it allows them to use english money to pay for everything, they do)

So thier go, there is reason, most english poeple are moving to New Zealand, Aussie, and Spain. They HATE their own county

I lost my grandmother and younger cousin when I was under 10. I didn't shed a single tear. I understood they were never coming back and I understood that they were in a lot of pain. I understood people around them were crying and I understood why. I just never cried, even though I tried to. I really did love them, but death happens.

Holy, you don't need to feel like bad person over this, I lost both my grandparsents who I was very close too and barely even felt a loss let alone crying. I've lost other poeple too, and not once cried over it, that is just how some poeple are, infact the only time I ever cried over lost of something, was when my cat died, so what does that say about me?

[Ishikawa Oshro]

I lost my grandmother and younger cousin when I was under 10. I didn't shed a single tear. I understood they were never coming back and I understood that they were in a lot of pain. I understood people around them were crying and I understood why. I just never cried, even though I tried to. I really did love them, but death happens.

Shining. In no way is that odd. lolz.
When my grandfather,uncle andothers in my family died I shed not a tear. Why? Because to me they really diddent have that much worth in my life. I never tried to get to know them. So their death was like that of a stranger.

A wife is a whole nother story. If my girlfriend or I guess I should say X hehehe. If she ever had died while we were together I would have bawled my little eyes out. BEcause she had a lot of influence in my life. Her worth was that above the wealth of the world.
Thats what I meant.

Well, I am neither atheist nor sun worshipper, does that mean I have to selfishly believe that only human life is worth preserving?

Seriously, all things are born equal. All things, not just humans.

Now ytour adding to what I said little ham ham hehehe,
I never said human life was the only thing worth preserving. I said humans are not animals. And I will not stand to be called one. We are in two different classes. Similiar we may be but theres a signifiance difference between animals and humans.

And no all things are not born equal. We still have the food chain. And humans are on top.

Its no fluke humans got their either. As I have said before. Humans adapt. And thats our most powerfull ability. All animals will falter in some way or another. Elephants are restricted to land. Apes usually remain in junglesor their natural habitat. (though we may want to watch out for them >.>) Sea creatures are restricted to the sea. But humans can build and create and adapt. And move onward.

[HolyShadow]

Shining. In no way is that odd. lolz.
When my grandfather,uncle andothers in my family died I shed not a tear. Why? Because to me they really diddent have that much worth in my life. I never tried to get to know them. So their death was like that of a stranger.

A wife is a whole nother story. If my girlfriend or I guess I should say X hehehe. If she ever had died while we were together I would have bawled my little eyes out. BEcause she had a lot of influence in my life. Her worth was that above the wealth of the world.
Thats what I meant.



Now ytour adding to what I said little ham ham hehehe,
I never said human life was the only thing worth preserving. I said humans are not animals. And I will not stand to be called one. We are in two different classes. Similiar we may be but theres a signifiance difference between animals and humans.

And no all things are not born equal. We still have the food chain. And humans are on top.

Its no fluke humans got their either. As I have said before. Humans adapt. And thats our most powerfull ability. All animals will falter in some way or another. Elephants are restricted to land. Apes usually remain in junglesor their natural habitat. (though we may want to watch out for them >.>) Sea creatures are restricted to the sea. But humans can build and create and adapt. And move onward.
Dolphins are mammals in the sea.

Dogs can swim.

Ducks can be in the sea, sky, and land.

Evolution works the way you said, and humans are animals. We're more evolved than other animals, but we're still classified, by our cells, as animals.

Get over it. You're no God.

[maisetofan]

neither are you :D

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Dolphins are mammals in the sea.

Dogs can swim.

Ducks can be in the sea, sky, and land.

Evolution works the way you said, and humans are animals. We're more evolved than other animals, but we're still classified, by our cells, as animals.

Get over it. You're no God.

Great sarcasm. But back to being serious.

Dogs can swim but show me a dog that can build a habitat on top of water.
Show me a duck that can manage to survie in outer space.

Humans obviously can do things animals cannot.
Until they one day prove me wrong. Which I doubt they will.

[HolyShadow]

Great sarcasm. But back to being serious.

Dogs can swim but show me a dog that can build a habitat on top of water.
Show me a duck that can manage to survie in outer space.

Humans obviously can do things animals cannot.
Until they one day prove me wrong. Which I doubt they will.
Humans can't survive in outer space. It's more that we dive into space and have to return in a limited amount of time. Even with our equipment, and even if we live there our whole life, our bone density changes considerably and it shortens our lives, I believe.

Oh, and earth is in space. Therefore, they are in space at the moment. This can be the outer reaches of space. You don't know and I don't know.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Oh, and earth is in space. Therefore, they are in space at the moment. This can be the outer reaches of space. You don't know and I don't know.

Your soo right. Show me some mammals that have tested their ways to survive out of our atmosphere. Like we have.
The whole dieng faster is un needed info. the point is if it comes down to it. We can escape. They cant.

Humans can't survive in outer space. It's more that we dive into space and have to return in a limited amount of time. Even with our equipment, and even if we live there our whole life, our bone density changes considerably and it shortens our lives, I believe

Point taken. We can survive.

[HolyShadow]

Your soo right. Show me some mammals that have tested their ways to survive out of our atmosphere. Like we have.
The whole dieng faster is un needed info. the point is if it comes down to it. We can escape. They cant.

Escape to where? Another planet that's uninhabitable?

It's more likely that we'll end up killing each other here on this planet that we'll move to another planet before this one dies.

Point taken. We can survive.
It's like diving in water, really, and holding your breath.

Humans change the environment to fit their needs because of intelligence. However, I maintain that given enough time, other animals can indeed become as intelligent as we are, or even moreso. However, our time present on this world is short, and we don't understand that because no animals have evolved to that extent other than us in that time. It's very hard to understand something that we never experience.

[killshot]

Humans

Domain Eukarya
Kingdom Amimalia
Phylum Chordata
Class Mammalia
Order Primates
Family Hominidae
Genus Homo
Species Homo sapiens


Humans are animals. Get over yourself.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

according to science. Which is BULL.
as I said. If your and athesist or something else it dosent make sense to you.
(Bible and humans having souls)

But that aside.

Escape to where? Another planet that's uninhabitable?

It's more likely that we'll end up killing each other here on this planet that we'll move to another planet before this one dies.

Im sure of that too. But the point is we have an escape plan. THATS IT!!!!!

It's like diving in water, really, and holding your breath.

Humans change the environment to fit their needs because of intelligence. However, I maintain that given enough time, other animals can indeed become as intelligent as we are, or even moreso. However, our time present on this world is short, and we don't understand that because no animals have evolved to that extent other than us in that time. It's very hard to understand something that we never experience.

Meh. I highly doubt that animals will attain our level of technology. Though im sure they could become some kind of advanced. Humans will reign on top forever. Not because of what we have now. But because of all the assets that amke a human.
Communication
Adaptability
and
and
and
Ummmm sex!!!!>>!>!!>

[HolyShadow]

according to science. Which is BULL.
as I said. If your and athesist or something else it dosent make sense to you.
(Bible and humans having souls)

But that aside.



Im sure of that too. But the point is we have an escape plan. THATS IT!!!!!



Meh. I highly doubt that animals will attain our level of technology. Though im sure they could become some kind of advanced. Humans will reign on top forever. Not because of what we have now. But because of all the assets that amke a human.
Communication
Adaptability
and
and
and
Ummmm sex!!!!>>!>!!>
Aliens.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Your sooo right
DARN THAT BACTERIA

[Fenrir502]

according to science. Which is BULL.
as I said. If your and athesist or something else it dosent make sense to you.
(Bible and humans having souls)

But that aside.



Im sure of that too. But the point is we have an escape plan. THATS IT!!!!!



Meh. I highly doubt that animals will attain our level of technology. Though im sure they could become some kind of advanced. Humans will reign on top forever. Not because of what we have now. But because of all the assets that amke a human.
Communication
Adaptability
and
and
and
Ummmm sex!!!!>>!>!!>

You speak as though you think humans are better than other animals... As though humans are above them. But, I'm a little curious about why you think so.

I mean, do you think that other animals are tools to be used? Do you think that they were God's warm ups before the grand finale? I'm genuinely curious why you seem to think that we're so great, because every other animal serves a purpose. Looking at any ecosystem in the natural world, every animals life and death benefits another animal, some more so than others, but it's still there.

And all your talk about communication and adaptation? Animals adapt physically just as well as humans, give or take. It's mental adaptatation we can do better. BUT, take any early H.S.S and plonk them in the middle of today's society, and I doubt you'll see a great amount of adapting happening.

I'm not trying to attack your beliefs, I'm just genuinely curious as to your reasoning. You've stated what you believe, but I don't think I've yet seen why you believe it. If it's nothing incredibly personal, that is.

Just a final thought, the beginning of your post stated 'science is bull,' so really, your point about people being able to survive in space is contradictory. You'd have to be using science to do that, so a little clarification would be lovely.

[killshot]

Science is bull? Just out of curiosity, are you an American? I haven't been keeping up with the topic, but something that should be discussed is the religiosity of Americans compared to people of other nations. I am in no way trying to imply that religious people are dumb, but statements such as "science is bull" show that religion can sometimes lead to a negative attitude toward science or anything else that conflicts with religious beliefs. Maybe one of the reasons Americans seem "dumb" to people in other nations is because of this negative attitude toward something as important as science.

[HolyShadow]

Science is bull? Just out of curiosity, are you an American? I haven't been keeping up with the topic, but something that should be discussed is the religiosity of Americans compared to people of other nations. I am in no way trying to imply that religious people are dumb, but statements such as "science is bull" show that religion can sometimes lead to a negative attitude toward science or anything else that conflicts with religious beliefs. Maybe one of the reasons Americans seem "dumb" to people in other nations is because of this negative attitude toward something as important as science.
I'm an American and I love science. I think it explains a lot. I'm also religious. I just think of how God would fit in with scientific theories to make him more logical.

Logic is the most important thing, after all.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Science is bull? Just out of curiosity, are you an American? I haven't been keeping up with the topic, but something that should be discussed is the religiosity of Americans compared to people of other nations. I am in no way trying to imply that religious people are dumb, but statements such as "science is bull" show that religion can sometimes lead to a negative attitude toward science or anything else that conflicts with religious beliefs. Maybe one of the reasons Americans seem "dumb" to people in other nations is because of this negative attitude toward something as important as science.

Totally my call on that one.
In some terms of science I believe its bull.
Science is right in most of its studys as in health space, matter, etc etc.
But when it comes to some things science claims I find it rubbish and complete rubbish and garbage. Like dolphins used to have legs -_-. Still believeing the missing link to be true -_- (get over it humans were never apes or monkeys). Things like I find to be rubbish. But I cant deny sciences great discoveries.

You speak as though you think humans are better than other animals... As though humans are above them. But, I'm a little curious about why you think so.

I mean, do you think that other animals are tools to be used? Do you think that they were God's warm ups before the grand finale? I'm genuinely curious why you seem to think that we're so great, because every other animal serves a purpose. Looking at any ecosystem in the natural world, every animals life and death benefits another animal, some more so than others, but it's still there.

And all your talk about communication and adaptation? Animals adapt physically just as well as humans, give or take. It's mental adaptatation we can do better. BUT, take any early H.S.S and plonk them in the middle of today's society, and I doubt you'll see a great amount of adapting happening.

I'm not trying to attack your beliefs, I'm just genuinely curious as to your reasoning. You've stated what you believe, but I don't think I've yet seen why you believe it. If it's nothing incredibly personal, that is.

Just a final thought, the beginning of your post stated 'science is bull,' so really, your point about people being able to survive in space is contradictory. You'd have to be using science to do that, so a little clarification would be lovely.

Well To breifly answer your question. I believe in the bible. In the beggining as things were being created animals were created by their own kind. Earth. Humans were made by GOD. So thats one key factor there. evidence two is that animals dont have souls. But humans do. Then God gave dominion of the animals into the hands of humans.

And ive been trying to say that I believe animals are capable of intelligent thought. I freakin debated for the pro of it in the debate thread so im quite clear what animals are capable of doing. But its quite clear anumals wont be making rockets to space. Certain animals could evelove to a certain extent. But I dont see animals coming all the way humans have. As Ive said above. Even without humans influence or enslavery. I doubt highly that animals could come up with what we have today. I never say ITS IMPOSSIBLE. Just highly unlikely.

[HolyShadow]

I think that humans came from mars, and that mars used to be inhabitable by humans because of the size of the sun. However, because the sun got larger, mars increased in heat and humans moved to another planet to terraform it, killing dinosaurs and such in order to survive. I believe that their kind was running out and they realized that monkeys were the closest things to their species, so they impregnated them with their own DNA with some type of tool to set in motion the chain of events that led monkeys to evolve into humans.

Plate shifts in continents will eventually lead the earth to become a new Pangaea which will collapse upon itself to form a mars-like atmosphere. Before that point, perhaps we'll terraform another planet to become inhabitable.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

I think that humans came from mars, and that mars used to be inhabitable by humans because of the size of the sun. However, because the sun got larger, mars increased in heat and humans moved to another planet to terraform it, killing dinosaurs and such in order to survive. I believe that their kind was running out and they realized that monkeys were the closest things to their species, so they impregnated them with their own DNA with some type of tool to set in motion the chain of events that led monkeys to evolve into humans.

Plate shifts in continents will eventually lead the earth to become a new Pangaea which will collapse upon itself to form a mars-like atmosphere. Before that point, perhaps we'll terraform another planet to become inhabitable.


Your knowledge astounds me every time.

[HolyShadow]

Your knowledge astounds me every time.
It's just a guess. However, judging from your reaction, you support it because it would explain several biblical problems and such.

Some people say angels that came down to earth were actually aliens. So it's possible that they were sent to multiple planets and some of them tried to contact us.

Jesus could've been injected into the virgin mary the same way as in monkeys in order to try to evolve us further, but Jesus died before reproducing, so we couldn't. People then thought Jesus was holy in some way, so it went to his head and he believed so as well, so he took a vow of chastity.

The 'second coming' of Jesus may simply be a second attempt at evolving humans, and that the end of the world would actually just be the end of humans as we are now. Those that don't wish for their species to evolve would be brought to a world of their own to continue life as humans, and those that wish to evolve will stay on earth as a scientific culture in order to advance their technology to the point that terraforming becomes possible and we move on in an attempt to continue the lifespan of our species.

All speculation. Likely wrong.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Lolz. Just reads and types in awe.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e109/LuciferLightbringer/BrianNew148.jpg

[HolyShadow]

Is that you?

[Ishikawa Oshro]

hahahaha no thats not me lolz.
Some random kid from photobucket

[killshot]

Totally my call on that one.
In some terms of science I believe its bull.
Science is right in most of its studys as in health space, matter, etc etc.
But when it comes to some things science claims I find it rubbish and complete rubbish and garbage. Like dolphins used to have legs -_-. Still believeing the missing link to be true -_- (get over it humans were never apes or monkeys). Things like I find to be rubbish. But I cant deny sciences great discoveries.

And you find these things to be rubbish because why? How do differentiate what you believe is true and what is garbage? If you can't deny sciences great discoveries, why do you claim evolution is false? (For the record here, its true humans were never apes. Humans and apes once shared a common ancestor.) There is more evidence of evolution than almost any other scientific theory. They only way you could deny evolution is to be willfully ignorant of the mountain of evidence in favor of the theory. I don't know about you, but I think choosing to deny evidence of something just because you don't want it to be true is pretty "dumb."

[OverMind]

And you find these things to be rubbish because why? How do differentiate what you believe is true and what is garbage? If you can't deny sciences great discoveries, why do you claim evolution is false? (For the record here, its true humans were never apes. Humans and apes once shared a common ancestor.) There is more evidence of evolution than almost any other scientific theory. They only way you could deny evolution is to be willfully ignorant of the mountain of evidence in favor of the theory. I don't know about you, but I think choosing to deny evidence of something just because you don't want it to be true is pretty "dumb."

To add on, there is evidence that the ancestral species of dolphins had legs. The same goes for snakes. After all, vestigial organs is probably one of the greatest arguments for evolution and validates both examples I've listed.

I'm not quite sure how anyone can make a claim like this, it baffles me. It's akin to calling "science bull" simply because penguins are classified as birds, yet they don't fly.

[Fat1Fared]

yes, you can critisice Darwin for his reseach methods and the enlightment members (and british empire) of time, for using it is as reason to prove/further racist beleifs. But at same time, there is lot of evidence for it (though, have to remember lot of scientist, don't think it is just evolution, lot think that is dominant thing for grow and change with others supporting it (IE cross breeding theory)

Ish like I have said to holy on another page, how can you believe one thing with no evidence in it, then critisce others for doing same or in this case believing in something which has a lot of evidence supporting it?

[HolyShadow]

yes, you can critisice Darwin for his reseach methods and the enlightment members (and british empire) of time, for using it is as reason to prove/further racist beleifs. But at same time, there is lot of evidence for it (though, have to remember lot of scientist, don't think it is just evolution, lot think that is dominant thing for grow and change with others supporting it (IE cross breeding theory)

Ish like I have said to holy on another page, how can you believe one thing with no evidence in it, then critisce others for doing same or in this case believing in something which has a lot of evidence supporting it?
Free will. Anyone can pretend endlessly. The logic of the world doesn't necessarily need to be your own.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Ish like I have said to holy on another page, how can you believe one thing with no evidence in it, then critisce others for doing same or in this case believing in something which has a lot of evidence supporting it?

Theres quite a good amount of evidence with the greatest amount being from the book of acts. IVe done my homework ^_^

(and nice halo avie btw

[Fat1Fared]

Theres quite a good amount of evidence with the greatest amount being from the book of acts. IVe done my homework ^_^

(and nice halo avie btw

no there isn't, there isn't any evidence for a god, (not real evidence, as therological evidence is to do with point of veiw and reasoning, not proof) and there isn't any evidence for great floods...etc

There isn't "much" evidence for Jesus and evidence there is, is suspect to say lest, and seems to have lot of poeple with maga angles pushing it through:-(And lets face we, have some poeple who believe the have found evidence to show world is only 2000 years old, in order to further religious teaching, now I now we cannot say for 100% that isn't, but to me the idea that millions, of years of existence never happened and was made up, in last 100 years, seems little unrealistic, not saying impossible, but not a theory, I'm giving much water to, as their is lot more evidence against them)

When think likes of Alexander the Great, have left massive reminders of their actions, why has someone as important as jesus only left a book (and suspect book at that) and few things which can be given loose unprovable links to him. And even if was a jesus, that doesn't mean he didn't lie about who he was (The life of Brain makes more sense to me than real story (and before say, I know jesus was in that))

as for avatar, it is griff from Red V Blue, a spoof of Helo

Holy not getting to a debate about free will (let just say, I don't think we have ether free will or fate) this isn't about logic par-say, I'm saying merely asking how he came to this conclusion that his beleif is completely full-proof and everyone else is wrong, even though there is no evidence for his beleifs

[HolyShadow]

Free will, to me, is simply the ability to act and think based on the impulses in your brain.

[TitanAura]

Is this thread even about the original topic anymore? All I'm finding is a listing of Wikipedia articles puked out all over the place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaADQTeZRCY&feature=fvst

[Serial Ulyssicider]

Is this thread even about the original topic anymore? All I'm finding is a listing of Wikipedia articles puked out all over the place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaADQTeZRCY&feature=fvst

Oooooooooohhhhhhhhh! :thatface:
I have also noticed that everything has gone to shit on this topic.
Lets restart with some figures:
98.624% of Americans who took this survey did not know the nationality of the person who invented the US Navy.
94% did not know the nationality of the person who invented the CRT.
And 96.6666etc. did not know the nationality of the person who invented Tarmac.
This proves...something.

[HolyShadow]

That not everyone knows every little meaningless event in history?

Name every nationality I am. I was in the paper once, so I'm important. What's wrong? Don't know? You must be stupid, then. Yawn.

[Serial Ulyssicider]

That not everyone knows every little meaningless event in history?

Name every nationality I am. I was in the paper once, so I'm important. What's wrong? Don't know? You must be stupid, then. Yawn.

And this shows why 79% of SR's need to take randomly spouted statistics with a fast-food-resteraunt of salt.
...
Little known fact 34% of all statistcs are made up, and 43% of those are made up by me.
...
Plus, the creation of the US navy a meaningless event? The invention of television a meaningless event? The invention of Tarmac a meaningless event? If I wasn't too busy laughing my head off at nothing in particular I would be mildly annoyed :squintyface:
And, if you are interested, the answer is Scottish to all three.
Have fun!

[Fat1Fared]

And this shows why 79% of SR's need to take randomly spouted statistics with a fast-food-resteraunt of salt.
...
Little known fact 34% of all statistcs are made up, and 43% of those are made up by me.
...
Plus, the creation of the US navy a meaningless event? The invention of television a meaningless event? The invention of Tarmac a meaningless event? If I wasn't too busy laughing my head off at nothing in particular I would be mildly annoyed :squintyface:
And, if you are interested, the answer is Scottish to all three.
Have fun!

bet you also believe that you invented Haggis, Telephone and Whistly

Doesn't this prove something

John MacAdam first invented the method of "macadamizing" it was 80 years later that Hooley added Tarmac and that was in Nottinghamshire ENGLAND and he himself, was WALSH (born in Swansea)

As for Tele, well the oginal projection idea was made in Britian, but that was very crude thing and wasn't actually tele idea, that was taken on, the actual Tele idea that was taken and used is the American one, so no you didn't invent TV, you invented form of TV, which was used for about year by BBC and then never used again, making it reductant point (also Fernsworth (American who had winning TV, took that idea from Zworykin, so in end Zworrykin is seen as winner, though he never got it till to work, till years later lol)

ZworryKin=American (i believe) Made idea
Fernsworth=American, who made one which was taken on
Braid=Got first boardcast, but his TV never took off as Fernsworth's was far more effective

So before starting calling Americans dumb for not knowing facts, learn them yourself, rather than just believing what I like to call rumored history, where poeple believe no something, without reading up on facts first

[Ishikawa Oshro]

no there isn't, there isn't any evidence for a god, (not real evidence, as therological evidence is to do with point of veiw and reasoning, not proof) and there isn't any evidence for great floods...etc

explain speaking in tongues in a real way and not a theory. Explain why the bible is so accurate in its teachings. Explain why in almost every religion there was a flood O.O
Explain how Jesus did miracles??? And if im correct there were "quote on quote" other papers and what not written by people of that time to try and better understand how he did what he did.
Explain why some people diagnosed with "uncurable diseases" are healed over a matter of time. Theres quite a good amount of evidence. You can refute it with its out dated and what not but those are all excuses.
Americas freedom was won once. By only one war. We dont demand proof or a reccurance to prove if it ever happened. We go on faith and say it happened because theres enough conclusive facts. You dont have to know rocket science to explain to me theres grease on a burger. I can see it. But its up to me to take what I see into my own hands and call it true or false.

There isn't "much" evidence for Jesus and evidence there is, is suspect to say lest, and seems to have lot of poeple with maga angles pushing it through:-(And lets face we, have some poeple who believe the have found evidence to show world is only 2000 years old, in order to further religious teaching, now I now we cannot say for 100% that isn't, but to me the idea that millions, of years of existence never happened and was made up, in last 100 years, seems little unrealistic, not saying impossible, but not a theory, I'm giving much water to, as their is lot more evidence against them)

When think likes of Alexander the Great, have left massive reminders of their actions, why has someone as important as jesus only left a book (and suspect book at that) and few things which can be given loose unprovable links to him. And even if was a jesus, that doesn't mean he didn't lie about who he was (The life of Brain makes more sense to me than real story (and before say, I know jesus was in that))

They say that you can know how to date rocks to millions of years ago. But how can you truly date something and call it FACT if we this has only been tested for at the least a couple decades -_-

[EdBat]

There are so many different types of people in America, it's not fair to generalize all of us.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

actually fair or not its a generallization.
Your gonna have to live with it wether you like it or not.

[maisetofan]

It's just a guess. However, judging from your reaction, you support it because it would explain several biblical problems and such.

Some people say angels that came down to earth were actually aliens. So it's possible that they were sent to multiple planets and some of them tried to contact us.

Jesus could've been injected into the virgin mary the same way as in monkeys in order to try to evolve us further, but Jesus died before reproducing, so we couldn't. People then thought Jesus was holy in some way, so it went to his head and he believed so as well, so he took a vow of chastity.

The 'second coming' of Jesus may simply be a second attempt at evolving humans, and that the end of the world would actually just be the end of humans as we are now. Those that don't wish for their species to evolve would be brought to a world of their own to continue life as humans, and those that wish to evolve will stay on earth as a scientific culture in order to advance their technology to the point that terraforming becomes possible and we move on in an attempt to continue the lifespan of our species.

All speculation. Likely wrong.

all wrong not likely wrong, but yes your ability to put a whole lot of crap you just made up together and make it appear as fact astounds me:thatface:


They say that you can know how to date rocks to millions of years ago. But how can you truly date something and call it FACT if we this has only been tested for at the least a couple decades -_-


Explain why the bible is so accurate in its teachings. Explain why in almost every religion there was a flood O.O
Explain how Jesus did miracles??? And if im correct there were "quote on quote" other papers and what not written by people of that time to try and better understand how he did what he did.
Explain why some people diagnosed with "uncurable diseases" are healed over a matter of time. Theres quite a good amount of evidence. You can refute it with its out dated and what not but those are all excuses.
Americas freedom was won once. By only one war. We dont demand proof or a reccurance to prove if it ever happened. We go on faith and say it happened because theres enough conclusive facts. You dont have to know rocket science to explain to me theres grease on a burger. I can see it. But its up to me to take what I see into my own hands and call it true or false.

I completely agree with you Ishikawa, nice to have another believer on the site

[maisetofan]

hey jswiggz, long time to see online XDXD

[caps]

generalization. some are. some aren't. the answer to whether some one is dumb or not is an opinion anyway, but if some one is born in america, that doesn't make them dumb. are you talking about the majority of americans?

[Turtlicious]

look american culture is dumb

[maisetofan]

haha u said it turtle

[Velocity]

look american culture is dumb
You're damn right it is...

[HolyShadow]

And so is black culture in America. >_>

What? He's allowed to insult Americans and I'm not allowed to insult blacks the same way?

Yeah, I knew you'd say that. Not sure who 'you' are yet, but I'm sure someone will have a bigger problem with my statement than his.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Your dang right you yankie doodle of an american.

Gosh. We blacks work the freakin cotton feilds for you uneducated,lazy,retarded,slothfull white peices of trash for englanders. And this is the thanx we get.

Well up yours too you lily picking frolicking, poor excuse for a straight man.
Gosh did God waste time when he created you.

(did I just insuly gays,whites,and people from england all at once O.O)

[Fat1Fared]

Just one thing, I seem to remember all you yanks, telling me, that no in USA has english past 0.o

Also, I think calling American culture stupid, is stupid, I mean whether you like it or agree with it, it is culture, and so just because you see it as stupid, doesn't make that, I mean no culture is perfect, its just way a society is

I mean one person, was taking mick out of poeple for not knowing facts, which he himself had got wrong, and that was because he comes from culture which tort him the wrong answers and changed much of it history, so that proves no culture is prefect and in my opinion, there is far worse ones than USA,

=Mai, I think it is foolish to put your faith in something which has done nothing to gain your loyality or even prove its existence, yet, that doesn't make it fact. I disagree with most of what Ish put, in that post, you agreed with it completely, does that mean ether of us, are dumb? just because of differences in our culture (which is basically just your personal opinion of our to live)

[HolyShadow]

People think they can pick and choose what's good and bad, but they can't. It doesn't work that way.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

.............
............
*speaks like a news anchorman*
In local news today we see that it is not in fact that americans are dumb but just may be less educated than you may be for reasons that are not their fault but the board of educations fault in their district. Its quite evident that if you gather a greoup of americans from all of their 50 states youll get varying differences. Pull all the A+ syudents in the same group and even they may have been taught a bit differently some being well taught in math and others being well taught in history. Why the USA dosent use one education syatem is beyond me.
But in closing.
If anything just say their less learned then you are.
Just remember to show respect to the americans. Or you may find yourself a victim of waterboarding ^_~

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/Humanist_bucket/Ihadadreamlastnight.jpg

[Fat1Fared]

Well, we have a one way teaching system and it made a massive drop in our educational grades from it,

it doesn't work, the best way to do it, is letting schools run themselves, leave education to those who know how it works, I mean what do most politicans actually know about it, most of them don't even look after their own children and used private schools, which are funnily enough free of Educational Curriclium.

Sure it means schools under bad leadership are screwed, but lest it saves ones with good headmasters and teachers

[HolyShadow]

Wow, that was incredibly insensitive, Ish.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Wow, that was incredibly insensitive, Ish.

I was joking hahaha
It was a return to the joke you made lolz

Unless you yourself were joking too O.o
unhungh WAAAA

[HolyShadow]

I meant the waterboarding thing. :/

I don't really get why people think America are the good guys, honestly. We're a country. I suppose every country likes to think they're the good guys and everything they do is in the name of justice, but it's basically never like that. Everything America's ever done has basically been in their best interest, not necessarily in the best interest of others.

Britain's basically the same way, and so is France. There are no 'good guys'. Countries are like humans: Their base instinct is self-survival. That's all.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

holy....im from america lolz

We ourselves dont really like the waterboarding thing. Even though it gets the job done (really fast might I add) it dosent portray us as the country we want to be seen as.

The differewnce between america and other countries is america isent proud to do those heineous torture things other countries do to get information. Our presidents try and try to heed the plea of the people and abolish some of our means of obtaining and making criminals speak. But the higher ups (government and poloticians) (who are Evil might I add) continue to make sure these acts stay instituted into out beautifull country ^_~

[HolyShadow]

What's wrong with torture? It's a logical way of going about things as well as an emotional way. I don't understand why people think it's barbaric.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

Its not thats its barbaric lolz.
It just dosent portray the picture the U.S.A is trying to stretch to the main populas.

If you have a problem speak to congress

[Tormented]

Wonder where the "Are Europeans Dumb?" topic is. Anybody make that yet?

[maisetofan]

thats cuz it would be futile starting a thread like that, remember where the mind behind the abridged series comes from? England, which is in europe

[HolyShadow]

No, I'm pretty sure that the mind came from earth...

Therefore, it's unallowed to create a thread about how dumb people from earth are. Now, America is part of earth, so why would we pick out a single part of earth when we're not willing to make a topic about how dumb beings from earth are?

I call it racism.

[Turtlicious]

WHAT AMERICAN CULTURE MADE

MAYONAISE
FRIDAY
HOW HIGH
AND POSER VALLEY KIDS

WHICH ONE OF THESE IS INTELLGIENT

IM AN AMERICAN AND EMBARRASSED TO SAY SO

[HolyShadow]

American culture affected the future from the past, thereby causing the mechanisms that eventually made me. I'm thankful for that.

[Tormented]

So, because the creater of the Abridged Series is from Europe, all Europeans are smart? I see...

Well, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan seem like pretty smart men, wouldn't you say? I guess that means that all Americans are smart.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

So, because the creater of the Abridged Series is from Europe, all Europeans are smart? I see...

Well, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan seem like pretty smart men, wouldn't you say? I guess that means that all Americans are smart.

Ronald Reagan was the Devil and Abe Lincoln was an incestuous pedophile.

IMO, of course.

[HolyShadow]

Are you calling Barack Obama stupid, gcar?

By the way, suppose that the average life expectancy ends up being 150 in a few hundred years and the age of consent becomes 30 or something. That makes you a pedophile for having sex under 30, gcar. Such a naughty girl.

[Turtlicious]

uhhhmmm....

look barack obama just had a great pr person hes DONE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

someone tell me what he's done so far?

beside being black woopty fuckin' doo we got a black man in but lets see him DO SOMETHING

Im not racist but im not going to give the president a pass cuz he happens to have a better tan then me

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

Are you calling Barack Obama stupid, gcar?

By the way, suppose that the average life expectancy ends up being 150 in a few hundred years and the age of consent becomes 30 or something. That makes you a pedophile for having sex under 30, gcar. Such a naughty girl.

according to this thread, albeit generalized, (US) Americans are dumb, so since Barack Obama, You, and Me are American, we are dumb.

IMO: Americans are more arrogant than dumb.

[HolyShadow]

As I've said before, everyone is dumb. Lemme ask you all a question.

What is the meaning of life?

No, not your personal take on it. What is the universe's unified meaning of life?

Can't answer that, can y'all? Wow, you euros must be incredibly stupid, not being able to answer a random question like that. Did you know that 99.999% of eruopeans got that wrong? They must be really dumb.

Hey, I've got a better one: What's my real name? Can any of you answer that? Out of everyone on this site, one person knows the answer to that and one person only. That means everyone else in the site is stupid, regardless of their ability to answer what they DO know.

Face it: I'm smarter than JesusRocks in terms of IQ. I'm smarter than a european. Therefore, since I'm an American, all eruopeans are dumber than americans because that one person is dumber than me.

We're all humans. Overall potential and intelligence is not determined by where you live. To think that it is is nothing but racism.