Sex before marriage

[Fat1Fared]

Okay, reasons not to have sex before marriage.
-STDs. There is NO SUCH THING as safe sex. Anyone heard of HPV?
-Emotional response. Having sex can create a huge rift in a relationship.
-Don't you think whoever you're going to spend the rest of your life with deserves all of you? When you have sex, you're giving a bit of yourself to that other person. You can't ever get that back.
-Also, would YOU like your future husband/wife to be having sex right now?
-Now, I know not everyone is Catholic/Christian/whatever, but being part of a religion, my belief is that that religion is truth. You can't call yourself a member of whatever religion without believing yours is the right one. So, speaking as a Catholic, we're all called to use our body as God intended. That body is a gift. God intends for us to wait until we're with our spouse to give ourselves.


Well couldn't find a thread for this, though sure is one, but anyway, these were reasons darkrunner gave against sex before marriage and wish to give my view, in right area

Now problem with these is they all go on one mistake of view, that all married poeple are sensible and socially/ecomonically sound and all non-married poeple ain't:-

This is wrong, my mother was married by 18 and had my sister at 19, she was too young and it wasn't goo thing, however under darks idea, because she was married these would not be problems, they were. However my Dad and his girlfriend (parents divorced) are now 45 and socially responsable /ecomonically sound and yet to darks view they shouldn't be allowed sex

Can this be right??????

-Now with safe sex, does being married remove that problem, is it a shield? as for getting pregent, well yes this is a problem, but as my mum found being married is not cure for that, it depends on how responsible couple are

-Again, emotional problems are not defended against by marriage (if anything made worse) it is all about if couple is responsible enough

-Well this is my cynical view, nothing more, but I don't think we will ever spend our lives with one person and that is why, second divorce became usable, poeple took it as just because you love someone when marry them, doesn't mean always will, both poeple change and their wants change with them

-EDITING DYSLEXIA ATTACK LOLAgain personal view, I couldn't care if she had sex before me, as long as she is loyal when with me (I haven't got such an ego, that I think that people should bind themselves to me and never do anything before me. I also personally think last two points put too much thought into sex, and mix them up with love)

-I will use my body how I please, (also remember 33% of poeple now don't believe in any god,)

[JesusRocks]

-Now with safe sex, does being married remove that problem, is it a shield? as for getting pregent, well yes this is a problem, but as my mum found being married is not cure for that, it depends on how responsible couple are

No, marriage is not a shield again STD's or pregnancy or any other health-related issues surrounding sex. However, what marriage does provide is security. In theory, the two people who are married have made a contract with each other - more than that, a covenant - to remain together and to choose to love each other no matter what happens. In theory this provides the security of being in a lasting relationship, with no fear that everything will go wrong.

I say "in theory" because, due to modern views on marriage and love, this does not work in practice. I would not point to this being a problem with marriage, but instead to a distorted view of commitment, marriage and love, and also the fact that many people confuse sexual desire or infatuation with true love.

Also, in theory, if you're in a committed marriage, and one of you has an STD and gives it to the other person, BUT you stay together, you're less likely to spread it around - and you can support each other as you undergo treatment for the STD.
The main reason things like HIV/AIDS spread around so much is not because people aren't using proper protection, it's because people are so much into having sex completely outside of a secure relational setting - very little self control. The secondary issue is that they don't have the sense, or the care to actually use protection. The main problem here is selfishness, pure and utter selfishness, "I want to have sex, and I don't care how many people I infect along the way" or "I want to have sex, I won't even entertain the possibility that I may be carrying an STD, and so I won't get checked out and take proper precautions"

-Again, emotional problems are not defended against by marriage (if anything made worse) it is all about if couple is responsible enough

Exactly, this points again to a distorted view of love - how can one expect a couple to be responsible and love one another, if they don't even know what love is in the first place.

-Well this is my cynical view, nothing more, but I don't think we will ever spend our lives with one person and that is why, second divorce became usable, poeple took it as just because you love someone when marry them, doesn't mean always will, both poeple change and their wants change with them

Here is where I strongly disagree. Emotions change, people change, the person they used to find attractive is no longer attractive to them, the sudden rush of lovey-dovey feelings wears away, people begin to mature, people get on each other's nerves, slight differences begin to irritate.

Love does not change. When you say you love someone, you make the choice to love them despite all of the above. This is about every single day, making the choice to continue loving the person despite their faults. This is a daily sacrifice of your own rights and freedoms for the good of another. Love is a verb - it is active - it is a continuous process. If both people really love each other, then divorce is never an option - they strive to be better people for the good of their partners, they overlook small irritants, and forgive mistakes. They stop focusing on themselves, and start focusing on their partner.

Again, this is in theory - in practice the modern-day married couple has no idea how to love one another. The modern thought is "if I don't get what I need, or what I want, then this relationship is useless"
And again, a real, loving relationship only works if both people try their damndest to love the person they're with. If it's one-sided or un-requited, then it is destructive to physical, mental and spiritual health.

-Again personal view, I couldn't care if she had sex before me, as long as she is loyal when with me (I done my such an ego, I think that people should bind themselves to one person and personally think last too points put too much thought into sex, and mix them up with love)

If i've read this correctly, you make an excellent point. Forgive past transgressions.

-I will use my body how I please, (also remember 33% of poeple now don't believe in any god,)

You are perfectly capable of using your body how you please, however, it's not necessarily what's best for you.

You don't need to be religious, or have any faith to view sex as an important relationship building event. If you view sex as being an important part of a persons emotional and mental wellbeing, then if you have sex with someone, who then breaks your heart and leaves you, then afterwards you meet someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, and who wants to spend the rest of their life with you, you're most likely gonna be regretting having sex with that other selfish person who took your virginity and left you out in the cold.

[DaJacksterN]

Being an atheist, I say: Do what YOU think is the smart thing to do. Be smart enough and mature enough to understand that having sex will have a mental impact on you before you have it. Acknowledge that and make sure you are ready for it. Also understand what kind of a relationship you're in: some high school sweetheart romance is going to end before graduation 99/100 times. (Or something like that--you get my point.) With this in mind, do you still want to have sex? Same goes for anyone, not just high-schoolers--know what kind of a relationship you're in, and what kind of impact sex will have on it.
Understand every possible aspect of your decision. Also know what kinds of things you can do to protect yourself, such as using a condom, getting a check-up, using a pill, etc. etc.
IF you understand all of the criteria and are still willing to go through with it then by all means, do what you are programmed by instinct to do. There's nothing wrong with a little carnal pleasure, so long as you've made every possible move to make sure you're not hurt in the process.
If you're not old enough to handle the mental and emotional weight that having sex may cause, then stay out of that danger zone.

[Hachrt]

Personally I don't believe in marriage, implying monogamy, because I don't belive that polygamy is *inherently* wrong, but becomes wrong if it's used to subjugate the other parent figures and in other cases. However this also happens monogamy as well, where the male beats his wife, or the wife beats her husband.

I do believe you should be careful in choosing your sex partners though, to make sure you're prepared to raise a child with them in the case that your chosen type of birth control fails, to make sure that you are not putting yourself in a health risk, which I'm sure is the intent of abstinence before marriage.

I do believe that the biological parents should be obligated to be with their child and support their child until the age of 18. If that means finding a more responsible parent figure, than so be it.

[maisetofan]

i reckon it all comes down to trust, if you trust the person you are marrying or chose to sleep with then this is good lol obviously. Marriage and waiting until you are married is safe if the person you marry has either never had sex or has but was cautious and did not go sleeping around with no protection. If you are both virgins you cannot get STD's
thats just obvious, even your doctor will tell you that LOL

bottom line monogamy should be built on trust
Trust is the most important thing
Love trusts

[xsinvurt]

god its only sex its not that big of a deal chill people. its up to the people involved if they want sex or not and personally there is a lot more important things in life than sex.

[DaJacksterN]

Nothing wrong with a little carnal pleasure, a little self-satisfaction, so long as it's mutual and you protect yourself! :thatface:

[MrsSallyBakura]

god its only sex its not that big of a deal chill people.

What a sad world we live in, full of people not taking risky business seriously.

There are people in this world who take sex on a very emotional level. Not everyone feels a whole lot of emotional hurt after a break-up with someone they had sex with, but enough people do. If you're someone who views sex as a more physical pleasure, even if you don't see it as a big deal, your partner might naturally believe that sex is a huge deal. Why would you lie to him/her like that? Is "getting some" more important than developing a trusting relationship?

I second JR's post, by the way. Go read it if you haven't.

IF you understand all of the criteria and are still willing to go through with it then by all means, do what you are programmed by instinct to do. There's nothing wrong with a little carnal pleasure, so long as you've made every possible move to make sure you're not hurt in the process.
If you're not old enough to handle the mental and emotional weight that having sex may cause, then stay out of that danger zone.

I agree with you, but here's the problem: many, many, many people who have sex before marriage do so irresponsibly; some of them don't even think that there SHOULD be precautions taken. People make mistakes, but if people were taught more not just about safe sex, but about love and commitment, then fewer mistakes would be made.

Also, going back a bit about what JR was saying, I don't think that a marriage is valid unless both people in the marriage are willing to devote their entire selves for the other. The reason why divorce is so prominent is because many married couples don't do this. We live in a world where we don't feel like we need to commit to anything, that we can just do whatever we want whenever we want. It's OK to be one of those people who lives on a day to day basis as opposed to one of those people who looks at the big picture of his/her entire life, so long as you remember your commitments every day.

[HolyShadow]

Nothing wrong with a little carnal pleasure, a little self-satisfaction, so long as it's mutual and you protect yourself! :thatface:
So you're saying that if a girl orgasms while being raped it's okay!? YOU FIEND!

[DaJacksterN]

MUTUAL is the key word. :3 Mutual as in both partners agree to it willingly.

[HolyShadow]

MUTUAL is the key word. :3 Mutual as in both partners agree to it willingly.
You're saying as long as the pleasure is mutual. If a girl orgasms, she felt pleasure. Therefore, the pleasure would be mutual.

[OverMind]

You're saying as long as the pleasure is mutual. If a girl orgasms, she felt pleasure. Therefore, the pleasure would be mutual.

No, she's saying mutual, as in both individuals agreed before proceeding to have sex.

[DaJacksterN]

Yeah, what OverMind said. As long as both parties agree to and understand the terms of the relationship.

[ettagam]

So many people may think that they are ready, but after they do it they find out it might not have been the best idea. So I would say, wait until you have reached a pretty high maturity level, and age, before sex

[HolyShadow]

No, she's saying mutual, as in both individuals agreed before proceeding to have sex.
Didn't look like that in the context of what she said. *Whistles*

[MrsSallyBakura]

So many people may think that they are ready, but after they do it they find out it might not have been the best idea. So I would say, wait until you have reached a pretty high maturity level, and age, before sex

On that note, you should reach a pretty high maturity level before you get married.

[ettagam]

On that note, you should reach a pretty high maturity level before you get married.

exactly!:)

[JesusRocks]

HolyShadow just brought the tone of this thread down several notches :squintyface:

On that note, you should reach a pretty high maturity level before you get married.

And... just to add to this... if you're wait for a pretty hight maturity level before you have sex, you may as well get married when you reach that high maturity level, then have sex... chances are, if you've reached a pretty high level of relational maturity, then you're probably going to want to properly commit anyway >_>

[xsinvurt]

HolyShadow just brought the tone of this thread down several notches :squintyface:

High 5 :thatface:

[Kanariya674]

You should probably wait until marriage, but it's really not that big of an issue if you don't.

god its only sex its not that big of a deal chill people. its up to the people involved if they want sex or not and personally there is a lot more important things in life than sex.

Honestly, this is pretty much my viewpoint. Yeah, I understand people can have babies, but if people make the effort and try their best to prevent that from happening while still having a sexual relationship, I really can't blame them.

[MrsSallyBakura]

You should probably wait until marriage, but it's really not that big of an issue if you don't.

I think that if you do end up having sex before marriage, you shouldn't dwell on it. Life goes on, learn from your mistakes, etc.

Yeah, I understand people can have babies, but if people make the effort and try their best to prevent that from happening while still having a sexual relationship, I really can't blame them.

Well, there's more to the significance of sex than having babies...

[Fat1Fared]

I think that if you do end up having sex before marriage, you shouldn't dwell on it. Life goes on, learn from your mistakes, etc.

Well, there's more to the significance of sex than having babies...

I think, you mis-understood her, she doesn't see it as a mistake, and she is Bai, so don't think she thinks babies are main reason

To JR

Well time to answer this:-

First, it is good post JR, but still makes the mistake of mixing marriage with responsibility's, like I said to say all who are married are responsible and all who are not, is foolish, as it is simply too simplistic:- however did counter balance this by saying that, the ones who fail at marriage where not ready for it, well again this is wrong, as though in her first marriage, this held true, in her second, to my father, my mother had learnt from her mistakes in her first marriage and was much older when met my father, went out for 2 years before married and where careful, responsible poeple about it, however after 7 years or so, they no longer loved one another, but made choice to stay together, for another 7 years, to try and make it work (so cannot use argument didn't try, they may be many things, but they didn't just give up) before they finally realised they were hurting themselves and their family more by being together (by end gone from love to hate) and so they finally divorced after 14 long years and there is proof, love is not forever, and they are not the only example of this

So you cannot say that it is just about being a responsible marriage shell we say, (so as to remove the illusion that there is only 2 kinds)

Now normally comes down to 2 arguments, are willing to be with several poeple or just one, however again this argument is too simple for modern life, yes in times gone by, when wasn't so many other choices....etc and it was needed for social and eciomonic reasons, then made sense to have married as binding forever, however now have far less restraints, and so the social and eciomonic worries are far less, meaning poeple can have relationships (marriage) for more personal reasons, and so this means if the personal reasons are no longer there, then we have no real reason not to break away, and it has been proven poeple now want more (not less) from their marriages, so it is not that poeple are less responsible now, infact we get married later and with lot more thought now, it is just we want more now and have more choices if we don't get what we want

and so this is why now we allow ourselves several partners

So now we have removed the marriage is responsibility idea, we can move onto next parts,

PS didn't quote, as the marriage feeling was throughout:-

No, marriage is not a shield again STD's or pregnancy or any other health-related issues surrounding sex. However, what marriage does provide is security. In theory, the two people who are married have made a contract with each other - more than that, a covenant - to remain together and to choose to love each other no matter what happens. In theory this provides the security of being in a lasting relationship, with no fear that everything will go wrong.

Well this true to, it is problem when have mindless sex, and this doesn't help STD's, however there are ways to limit them and also just because in marriage like said doesn't mean, going to stay together. However like I said if it is a responsible couple couple, which will at lest look like it will last some time (personal choice how long) and it is willing to deal the negative side of sex, then it is ok

So in short, it is not marriage which should be used as judgment, but personal judgment between the couple and when they feel ready to face it, and its problems

Now before they say, some won't do that, will sadly that is a reality and some will go for it, before ready and have the negative point later, but marriage isn't any less flieable to this ether

PS in modern day, because of medical science we cannot not have contraceptives, as no longer will have only 3 out of 10 surviving

Exactly, this points again to a distorted view of love - how can one expect a couple to be responsible and love one another, if they don't even know what love is in the first place.

again this links back to point one, and though in theory looks reasonable point, but it is not right here, it is too simple and judgmental as well, to just say poeple no longer understand love. If anything we have better view of it now, as it is for good points more than social ones and it merely comes down to fact we want more from it now, and have more choices. Yes some will get married irresponsibility, they did in past as well, just have more choices about what to do with it, if goes wrong and like said we get married later and still many who like my parsents fight a failing marriage, however you cannot beat who you truly are and in modern day, if no longer love someone, staying with is foolish, the only reason did it in past is because had little choice in matter.

In Island, devoice is still illegal and yet 33% (i think, year ago I studied this) of couples there would get devoice if they were allowed, and so this shows that a high amount, are merely forced into what is nicknamed a Dead-Shell-Marriage

Here is where I strongly disagree. Emotions change, people change, the person they used to find attractive is no longer attractive to them, the sudden rush of lovey-dovey feelings wears away, people begin to mature, people get on each other's nerves, slight differences begin to irritate.

Love does not change. When you say you love someone, you make the choice to love them despite all of the above. This is about every single day, making the choice to continue loving the person despite their faults. This is a daily sacrifice of your own rights and freedoms for the good of another. Love is a verb - it is active - it is a continuous process. If both people really love each other, then divorce is never an option - they strive to be better people for the good of their partners, they overlook small irritants, and forgive mistakes. They stop focusing on themselves, and start focusing on their partner.

Again, this is in theory - in practice the modern-day married couple has no idea how to love one another. The modern thought is "if I don't get what I need, or what I want, then this relationship is useless"
And again, a real, loving relationship only works if both people try their damndest to love the person they're with. If it's one-sided or un-requited, then it is destructive to physical, mental and spiritual health.

Well first, love has many meaning and many uses and in truth is used to broader, however to say all who go into marriage and get devoiced were responsible is still like said to simple and too judgmental for such a personal and complex area as love. Love in truth doesn't have real defimation, as it is individual to all, but it isn't eternal, we have proved that, now know the romantic in all of us, doesn't like that idea, but it is true, and you will change, JR you may love your girlfriend now, you may not (that isn't an insult, I just don't you or your girlfriend enough to make that assumption) and may stay together for rest of your lifes, however good chance won't ether, as you still only 20, you have (barring unforeseen misfortune) a good 40-60 years left on clock, who knows what you will become or how you will feel in say even 5 years time, it is harsh true of life, that the clock never stops,
My parents did try there hardest, but they still failed as in end, they both changed and became too poeple who were very different from ones they loved and married

Now my dad is in another relationship and it is another 7 years down line and it is stronger than ever, but both him and his girlfriend are devoiced, from ex's and have no plan for marriage, because realised the marriage isn't the love, they are (PS also under orthodox view, they cannot have sex is that right?) so love is just too god damn personal for such an objective rule

You are perfectly capable of using your body how you please, however, it's not necessarily what's best for you.

I treat my body well, don't eat unhealthy food or drink, exiuse, don't smoke, do drugs....etc and though I like to drink, I have only once made myself ill from drinking and that was because someone put some lest than nice things in one of my drinks

However this was not point, I was making, point I was making is, this isn't gods body, it is mine and for better or for worse I will use it how I see fit (I like to believe both my succuss and failure is my own, as that is what makes me, me,)


You don't need to be religious, or have any faith to view sex as an important relationship building event. If you view sex as being an important part of a persons emotional and mental wellbeing, then if you have sex with someone, who then breaks your heart and leaves you, then afterwards you meet someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, and who wants to spend the rest of their life with you, you're most likely gonna be regretting having sex with that other selfish person who took your virginity and left you out in the cold.

And don't need to be in a marriage to be in a committed and sensible relationship, which is my main point, it is should be an individual decision, which the individual couple makes when they feel they are responsible enough to deal with it and its problems, regardless of marriage, and this is problem, poeple seem to think if think sex is ok before marriage, you want to just have sex with everyone and everything, no still think it needs to be a responsible decision, just not one which includes marriage,

[Kanariya674]

Well, there's more to the significance of sex than having babies...

Well if we're going to be technical, no, there's not. Reality wise, yes there is more of a significance to sex, more than making children.

For some, it's pleasure. For others, emotional connection. Most of the time, it's a mix of both. You know this.

What I meant was that I think it's okay for a couple to have a sexual relationship before marriage, even if there are risks. You can't blame the person for getting pregnant if they tried their best to make sure it didn't happen. Well I guess in ways you can (don't have sex in the first place), but for some that's pretty difficult.

I think, you mis-understood her, she doesn't she it as mistake, doesn't even see it as important and she is Bai, so don't think she thinks babies are main reason

How would Sally know I like women? xD

[Turtlicious]

you know let them make their choice its really none of our business to judge

[DaJacksterN]

Guuuuys, just enjoy the sex, don't fret if it's before marriage, and remember to make sure that your reasoning behind having sex is mutual between both partners. If you both just want to have a one-night-stand and that's all you're in for, then fine, go ahead. Just don't do anything stupid, protect yourself, and then both leave feeling satisfied.
If you're in it for the emotional connection, make sure that you know the person well enough that you know they aren't just in it for the sex and then ditch you. If you're with that kind of person marriage probably isn't going to happen anyways. If they truly love you and you truly love them, then sex shouldn't affect the relationship negatively.

It really shouldn't be a big deal. Like it's some kind of horrible, dirty twisted sin if performed before marriage, but some lovely, awesome, godly thing afterwards. It's sex--our most basic function.

...
Says the virgin highschooler...xD

[darkrunner]

And... just to add to this... if you're wait for a pretty hight maturity level before you have sex, you may as well get married when you reach that high maturity level, then have sex... chances are, if you've reached a pretty high level of relational maturity, then you're probably going to want to properly commit anyway >_>

I completely agree. And if you're not intending to marry a person, why would you have sex with them? Pleasure? But then when it's over and you've broken up, you've just given that person a piece of yourself. Possibly your virginity.

[Fat1Fared]

I completely agree. And if you're not intending to marry a person, why would you have sex with them? Pleasure? But then when it's over and you've broken up, you've just given that person a piece of yourself. Possibly your virginity.

Darkrunner you have very very simple and Christian view of the world, now I'm not saying your stupid here, however you need to understand 2 very important facts, which you will gain with experience:-

1=Not all Cultures are same, to some cultures the idea of having more than one PARTNER, is normal. Notice I said partner, as lot of poeple don't realise, theor are cultures out there where woman and not MAN have several partners. However this point, is also in your own society, just because your, say American, doesn't mean going to be an Orthodox Christian of any kind, you need to realise that not everyone is planning to get married mate, as it is a social thing now, nothing more (well unless religious of course, but not all of us are religious, and even then many poeple do it for social reasons as well as religious ones) and so marriage cannot be a stand point. I know couples who have been together 40 years and never got married, are they not devoted to one another, because never spent a day doing a social ritual, I don't PLAN to get married. The thing you will learn is you don't need socially structured things like say a psychiatric record, to mean you have mental illness and in same way (though on different emotional level) you don't need marriage documents, to prove you love someone. Now I'm cynical about love yes, but doesn't mean I won't try to stay with someone I love.

2=Sex and love are very very different things, and despite rumor, you don't need one for the other.

-Love=is a set of different hormones and drugs in your system, which create a feeling of emotional happiness and attachment, this is triggered by another person/persons (depending on level, and poeple involved)

-Sex=Is a physical action, which is used to make babies and also if done right, exsteamre pleasure and can be as personal or unpersonal as you personally wish. Just because I don't want to get married, doesn't mean I have sex with very girl I meet, vise verser, just because someone plans on marriage, doesn't mean they wait for sex. Listern to me, here mate, when you have sex you won't lose anything, accept for what, you THINK you have lost, it is all about personal choice, don't wait for marriage to be your light, as it is far from fliualbe. Trust yourself and your own judgment, it is when YOU (and other person involved) think your ready,to take the risks and responsibility of it. And that goes for any person or couple, their isn't some set time you become ready, your ready when your ready. And once it is over, you will find it is far from the big deal it is made out to be.

[Kanariya674]

I completely agree. And if you're not intending to marry a person, why would you have sex with them? Pleasure? But then when it's over and you've broken up, you've just given that person a piece of yourself. Possibly your virginity.

Sh*t happens.

Virginity to many is sacred, but then there are other people who don't think it is. All about morals.

Basically what Fat said.

But hey, if you want to save your virginity for marriage, I think that's admirable. It definitely makes it more meaningful, but if you don't, it's not a huge problem like I stated earlier.

[HolyShadow]

Guuuuys, just enjoy the sex, don't fret if it's before marriage, and remember to make sure that your reasoning behind having sex is mutual between both partners. If you both just want to have a one-night-stand and that's all you're in for, then fine, go ahead. Just don't do anything stupid, protect yourself, and then both leave feeling satisfied.
If you're in it for the emotional connection, make sure that you know the person well enough that you know they aren't just in it for the sex and then ditch you. If you're with that kind of person marriage probably isn't going to happen anyways. If they truly love you and you truly love them, then sex shouldn't affect the relationship negatively.

It really shouldn't be a big deal. Like it's some kind of horrible, dirty twisted sin if performed before marriage, but some lovely, awesome, godly thing afterwards. It's sex--our most basic function.

...
Says the virgin highschooler...xD
Our most basic function? I'm pretty sure our most basic function is actually... well... our heart beating, us breathing, us eating... you know, the things that keep us alive. It's very easy for someone to go their whole lives without sex or masturbation. In this case, they never used that function. How is that basic?

As for your viewpoint, while I respect that you are a homosexual and therefore incredibly lustful, I must disagree. (Hope you realize this is a joke)

[MrsSallyBakura]

Our most basic function? I'm pretty sure our most basic function is actually... well... our heart beating, us breathing, us eating... you know, the things that keep us alive. It's very easy for someone to go their whole lives without sex or masturbation. In this case, they never used that function. How is that basic?

To be technical, sex is included in our most basic functions in psychological terms, but that's only because it's necessary to keep the population from not dying off; in that sense, it doesn't have to do with the pleasure behind it. It's also the basic function that people can properly live without.

[HolyShadow]

To be technical, sex is included in our most basic functions in psychological terms, but that's only because it's necessary to keep the population from not dying off; in that sense, it doesn't have to do with the pleasure behind it. It's also the basic function that people can properly live without.
It's not our most basic function, however. Our most basic psychological need is the need to survive. If you're a male, and have the choice to live and not have sex with someone, or have sex with someone, impregnate her, and then be executed, then you'll probably choose to live.

[DaJacksterN]

Alright then, one of our most basic desires and needs.

And HolyShadow, I hope you were kidding about the 'it's easy to go through life without sex or masturbation' part. It's such an intense urge that we do it in our sleep.

And actually, the pleasure behind the sex is VERY important. It's what creates the urge to have sex that will ultimately make sure a species reproduces. Lust is like the hunger we feel in our bellies or the thirst in our mouths; it's our bodies way of reminding us that we need something. The goal of pleasure is like the goal we seek for the contented feeling we get when we eat or the refreshment when we drink.

Without the pleasure, we would see no reason to reproduce (thinking on an insinctual level; we have since devloped enough to understand that we need to have sex to reproduce, whereas everyday animals most likely do not) and our species would fail.

[darkrunner]

Darkrunner you have very very simple and Christian view of the world, now I'm not saying your stupid here, however you need to understand 2 very important facts, which you will gain with experience:-

1=Not all Cultures are same, to some cultures the idea of having more than one PARTNER, is normal. Notice I said partner, as lot of poeple don't realise, theor are cultures out there where woman and not MAN have several partners. However this point, is also in your own society, just because your, say American, doesn't mean going to be an Orthodox Christian of any kind, you need to realise that not everyone is planning to get married mate, as it is a social thing now, nothing more (well unless religious of course, but not all of us are religious, and even then many poeple do it for social reasons as well as religious ones) and so marriage cannot be a stand point. I know couples who have been together 40 years and never got married, are they not devoted to one another, because never spent a day doing a social ritual, I don't PLAN to get married. The thing you will learn is you don't need socially structured things like say a psychiatric record, to mean you have mental illness and in same way (though on different emotional level) you don't need marriage documents, to prove you love someone. Now I'm cynical about love yes, but doesn't mean I won't try to stay with someone I love.

2=Sex and love are very very different things, and despite rumor, you don't need one for the other.

-Love=is a set of different hormones and drugs in your system, which create a feeling of emotional happiness and attachment, this is triggered by another person/persons (depending on level, and poeple involved)

-Sex=Is a physical action, which is used to make babies and also if done right, exsteamre pleasure and can be as personal or unpersonal as you personally wish. Just because I don't want to get married, doesn't mean I have sex with very girl I meet, vise verser, just because someone plans on marriage, doesn't mean they wait for sex. Listern to me, here mate, when you have sex you won't lose anything, accept for what, you THINK you have lost, it is all about personal choice, don't wait for marriage to be your light, as it is far from fliualbe. Trust yourself and your own judgment, it is when YOU (and other person involved) think your ready,to take the risks and responsibility of it. And that goes for any person or couple, their isn't some set time you become ready, your ready when your ready. And once it is over, you will find it is far from the big deal it is made out to be.

I know all of that. I'm just arguing what I believe. There are many very sensible reasons TO have sex before marriage, which have been brought up already. I honestly find it very different to counter those reasons. I really ought to get out the Catechism to properly defend my view, but I'm too lazy. Most of what I've said so far is what I remember from the Catholic edition of the Silver Ring Thing. ^^;; Outside of threads like this, I don't think too much about the reasons, so I don't know everything offhand. While it can make sense to have sex before marriage, it also makes sense to NOT have sex before marriage. For me, it's a fact that it's better to not have sex before marriage. But to others, it isn't a fact. I'm not going to change them, and they're not going to change me, so live and let live.

[HolyShadow]

Alright then, one of our most basic desires and needs.

And HolyShadow, I hope you were kidding about the 'it's easy to go through life without sex or masturbation' part. It's such an intense urge that we do it in our sleep.

You orgasm in your sleep? I don't. Lustful girl.

And actually, the pleasure behind the sex is VERY important. It's what creates the urge to have sex that will ultimately make sure a species reproduces. Lust is like the hunger we feel in our bellies or the thirst in our mouths; it's our bodies way of reminding us that we need something. The goal of pleasure is like the goal we seek for the contented feeling we get when we eat or the refreshment when we drink.

Without the pleasure, we would see no reason to reproduce (thinking on an insinctual level; we have since devloped enough to understand that we need to have sex to reproduce, whereas everyday animals most likely do not) and our species would fail.
Prove it.

[Fat1Fared]

I know all of that. I'm just arguing what I believe. There are many very sensible reasons TO have sex before marriage, which have been brought up already. I honestly find it very different to counter those reasons. I really ought to get out the Catechism to properly defend my view, but I'm too lazy. Most of what I've said so far is what I remember from the Catholic edition of the Silver Ring Thing. ^^;; Outside of threads like this, I don't think too much about the reasons, so I don't know everything offhand. While it can make sense to have sex before marriage, it also makes sense to NOT have sex before marriage. For me, it's a fact that it's better to not have sex before marriage. But to others, it isn't a fact. I'm not going to change them, and they're not going to change me, so live and let live.

well, we may not agree here, but you are clearly being responsible and thinking about it, which is good, and I respect you for it, and so think we can leave it at that lol

[Ishikawa Oshro]

yea the thought that we wouldent reproduce if we diddent have lustfull impulses is VERY wrong.
This is the worst example in my history of examples but here it goes lolz.
Showers YEA thats right showers. I dont know a person in my friends box who has strong impulses to shower when their dirty. We do it because we know we need to stay clean and sometimes it feels good to feel that warm water coming down your body and seeping through your......okay im going a bt too far.

Case is. You dont need STRONG uncontrolable urges to do something. Without that tingling to masturbate or have sex with the closest person of the opposite sex who looks decent I sure somewhere down the line after I had found Mrs right We would have sex. And without those urges im sure our population wouldent be skyrocketing the way it is.

[DaJacksterN]

You orgasm in your sleep? I don't. Lustful girl.




I, just like every other teenager in all of everywhere, have had erotic fantasies in my dreams, yes. I could not suppress them even if I wanted to.

[xsinvurt]

I, just like every other teenager in all of everywhere, have had erotic fantasies in my dreams, yes. I could not suppress them even if I wanted to.

:squintyface: I think you have to tell us about these Dreams in more detail :thatface: lol

[DaJacksterN]

Lol, that would probably go in the 18+ section.
I don't want to get banned....xD

[xsinvurt]

Lol, that would probably go in the 18+ section.
I don't want to get banned....xD

true :thatface:

[Kanariya674]

Everybody let's post our best wet dream ever.

[/sarcasm]

It was mentioned before, but I think it should be again. I mean, if you're imagining sex in your sleep, then it's pretty important. Don't doubt that sex is important, for its consequences.

I don't know about anybody else, but without sex, I can get cranky. It definitely becomes a 'basic need', especially if you have done it.

[DaJacksterN]

That would be wholesomely innapropriate. Fun, but innapropriate.

[HolyShadow]

So BASICALLY...

You all want to bang me?

[DaJacksterN]

No. No indeed we do not. At least I don't. Men are smelly. >__<

But anyways....

Yeah. Sex before mariage? Why not? If you don't want to because you think its unethical, fine. You do want to because you want to release seome sexual energy? Fine. Simple as that.

[HolyShadow]

No. No indeed we do not. At least I don't. Men are smelly. >__<

But anyways....

Yeah. Sex before mariage? Why not? If you don't want to because you think its unethical, fine. You do want to because you want to release seome sexual energy? Fine. Simple as that.
Well, my girlfriend wants to wait and I respect her wishes.

How am I smelly? I shower twice a day using fragrance products and wear ladies' deodorant. I shave my legs and face all the time and (usually) have long hair. T_T I'm more girly than most girls!

I just really hate hair being in places other than my head. It's like... eww.

[DaJacksterN]

All men are smelly. I don't like 'em. In that way. Including you. :V

[HolyShadow]

All men are smelly. I don't like 'em. In that way. Including you. :V
INTERNET POWER ACTIVATE! *Turns into a woman* How bout now?

[DaJacksterN]

Depends. Just cause you're a woman doesn't automatically mean I like you.

[HolyShadow]

Depends. Just cause you're a woman doesn't automatically mean I like you.
OMG YOU HATE ME *Emo mode* DARK FIREBALL!

*Ninja out* Anyway, sex before marriage: Only if you don't care about who gets your virginity.

[Tatterdemalion]

Overall, sex before marriage is not a bad thing.

The most important thing with sex, or anything of that nature, in any context is to be smart about it, be thoughtful, and use good judgment.

What it comes down to is that your life is your life, and while people can inform your decisions, no one else can truly know what's right for you. Some people will definitely be physically and emotionally ready for sexual relationships before other people. Likewise, some people will be ready for marriage before others, while some may never be ready at all.

It's the sort of thing that has to be taken on a case by case, moment by moment basis. We all agree, I'm sure, that it's never a good idea to rush into a sexual relationship when you really aren't ready for it. This is an attempt to force a type of growth that can only occur on its own. Likewise, if you are ready for a sexual relationship, it's not a good idea to avoid it without reason.

Sexuality itself is definitely good. We learn through sexuality, and we mature through sexuality, and we grow through sexuality. At some point or another we all must encounter this wonderful phenomenon, and once we do, there's no escaping from it.

Should you welcome sex? Yes. Should you fear sex? In all honesty, yes. But at the same time, it's important to both welcome and fear sex for the right reasons, and not because of a stigma, or because people tell you you should. That sort of thing is never a good idea.

So yeah, I myself think this whole notion of waiting for marriage to have sex is getting to be obsolete in the modern world, because unlike in the past, people aren't all expected to get married, and if they do, they generally do so at a much later age. It used to be that you married in your late teens, early twenties, so at that time not having sex until marriage didn't mean much. Nowadays, however, marriage is something that doesn't just come at a particular age, whereas sexuality still is, and always will be. So setting yourself on avoiding sex until marriage is, in that sense, very impractical.

And then there's the other thing to consider, which is if you happen to be one of those boys who likes other boys, or one of those girls who likes other girls. If that's the case, then you really can't wait until marriage at all, because marriage isn't an option. You know?

[HolyShadow]

Overall, sex before marriage is not a bad thing.

The most important thing with sex, or anything of that nature, in any context is to be smart about it, be thoughtful, and use good judgment.

What it comes down to is that your life is your life, and while people can inform your decisions, no one else can truly know what's right for you. Some people will definitely be physically and emotionally ready for sexual relationships before other people. Likewise, some people will be ready for marriage before others, while some may never be ready at all.

It's the sort of thing that has to be taken on a case by case, moment by moment basis. We all agree, I'm sure, that it's never a good idea to rush into a sexual relationship when you really aren't ready for it. This is an attempt to force a type of growth that can only occur on its own. Likewise, if you are ready for a sexual relationship, it's not a good idea to avoid it without reason.

Sexuality itself is definitely good. We learn through sexuality, and we mature through sexuality, and we grow through sexuality. At some point or another we all must encounter this wonderful phenomenon, and once we do, there's no escaping from it.

Should you welcome sex? Yes. Should you fear sex? In all honesty, yes. But at the same time, it's important to both welcome and fear sex for the right reasons, and not because of a stigma, or because people tell you you should. That sort of thing is never a good idea.

All agreed.

So yeah, I myself think this whole notion of waiting for marriage to have sex is getting to be obsolete in the modern world, because unlike in the past, people aren't all expected to get married, and if they do, they generally do so at a much later age. It used to be that you married in your late teens, early twenties, so at that time not having sex until marriage didn't mean much. Nowadays, however, marriage is something that doesn't just come at a particular age, whereas sexuality still is, and always will be. So setting yourself on avoiding sex until marriage is, in that sense, very impractical.

It's impractical, but not impossible.

And then there's the other thing to consider, which is if you happen to be one of those boys who likes other boys, or one of those girls who likes other girls. If that's the case, then you really can't wait until marriage at all, because marriage isn't an option. You know?
...I can think of four states where it's an option.

[redpheonix]

i like how simply Jackster put it....simple

[Tatterdemalion]

It's impractical, but not impossible.

I never said it couldn't be done, I just said that this is something to be considered, and something that may, for many, make it a bad idea.

...I can think of four states where it's an option.

I can think of 46 where it's not.

[HolyShadow]

I can think of 46 where it's not.
Then they should come to Vermont and get jobs here. Gay people are usually hardworking, aren't they? I believe that's a stereotype about them. Being richer and all that. :V

[HeartRyou]

I hate it when statistics get thrown around without any citations. >.>

[maisetofan]

You orgasm in your sleep? I don't. Lustful girl.

.

there you go judging jackster with your fundamental beliefs again

[HolyShadow]

there you go judging jackster with your fundamental beliefs again
It was a joke, baka. Stop making personal attacks.

[DaJacksterN]

Baka? :V
Waka. :8V:

[maisetofan]

It was a joke, baka. Stop making personal attacks.

anatawa baka desu :squintyface:

right back at ya

[Tristan's Voice]

remember 33% of poeple now don't believe in any god

33% are chistains, 66% are monotheiests, about 10% are Polythesits

So about only 24% have no god

On topic: I plan on waiting for marriage before having sex with Serenity, at least now, as she can see

Even more on topic: The whole having your partner having sex right now changed the way I think of sex before marriage. So i'll try really hard not to do it.

[HeartRyou]

33% are chistains, 66% are monotheiests, about 10% are Polythesits

So about only 24% have no god

On topic: I plan on waiting for marriage before having sex with Serenity, at least now, as she can see

Even more on topic: The whole having your partner having sex right now changed the way I think of sex before marriage. So i'll try really hard not to do it.

Where did you get those statistics from? What specific area of the world are they referring to?

[Tristan's Voice]

Where did you get those statistics from? What specific area of the world are they referring to?

Whole world, and my Textbook from last year

[HeartRyou]

Whole world, and my Textbook from last year

Can you give me any more info on the textbook?

[Tristan's Voice]

It was called History Alive Mideval World

Something along the lines of that

[maisetofan]

so you are waiting until you are married to serenity tristans voice? XDXD

[caps]

I...I don't...really see the point in marriage. :o
i just don't. so...if you are planning on getting married, you might want to wait just to...i dunno, create a sense of anticipation or to make marriage even more special. But if you want to be with someone forever, be with them for ever. you don't need a wedding ring to do that.

[HolyShadow]

I...I don't...really see the point in marriage. :o
i just don't. so...if you are planning on getting married, you might want to wait just to...i dunno, create a sense of anticipation or to make marriage even more special. But if you want to be with someone forever, be with them for ever. you don't need a wedding ring to do that.
Well, if you're a millionaire, and you die without being married and without having children or relatives, that money will go to the state, even if you have a girl/boyfriend you've been living with for 30 years. However, if you're married, then at least he/she will get your inheritance.

At the same time, you also have to think of a child you might bring into the relationship. Think of how awkward it will be to explain "Oh, mommy and daddy didn't marry because mommy thought it was pointless and forced daddy to put away the ring. Mommy also sleeps with 3 different men a week."

That brings me to my next point. It's the ultimate form of commitment. It lets your partner know that you belong to them, and they belong to you. You are one person and you could never break that bond. That's what marriage is supposed to represent.

[HeartRyou]

I...I don't...really see the point in marriage. :o
i just don't. so...if you are planning on getting married, you might want to wait just to...i dunno, create a sense of anticipation or to make marriage even more special. But if you want to be with someone forever, be with them for ever. you don't need a wedding ring to do that.

That's why I don't understand why gay marriage is such a pressing issue. Sure it's seems "unfair" but you can't compare a ban on gay marriage to the old bans on sodomy. (And I know this isn't the gay marriage thread, I'm just speaking my mind as it relates to caps' comment.)

[caps]

Well, if you're a millionaire, and you die without being married and without having children or relatives, that money will go to the state, even if you have a girl/boyfriend you've been living with for 30 years. However, if you're married, then at least he/she will get your inheritance.

At the same time, you also have to think of a child you might bring into the relationship. Think of how awkward it will be to explain "Oh, mommy and daddy didn't marry because mommy thought it was pointless and forced daddy to put away the ring. Mommy also sleeps with 3 different men a week."

That brings me to my next point. It's the ultimate form of commitment. It lets your partner know that you belong to them, and they belong to you. You are one person and you could never break that bond. That's what marriage is supposed to represent.

yah, but if your kid is embarrased by that then it is more society's fault then your own. and just because you aren't married doesn't mean you have to sleep around. it may be the ultimate form of commitment, but you don't have to have a ring to love and commit yourself to someone, i see how marriage can express your love, but your mate can trusts that you love them and if you don't, well that kinda sucks in the first place.

[HolyShadow]

yah, but if your kid is embarrased by that then it is more society's fault then your own. and just because you aren't married doesn't mean you have to sleep around. it may be the ultimate form of commitment, but you don't have to have a ring to love and commit yourself to someone, i see how marriage can express your love, but your mate can trusts that you love them and if you don't, well that kinda sucks in the first place.
And if they sleep around? You're not married to them. It's not illegal.

[caps]

so the point of marriage is to keep your spouse on a leash? if they want to sleap around they shouldn't have agreed to marry in the first place

[MrsSallyBakura]

I think sex before marriage is a good thing because apparently once you get married, you don't have sex anymore.

Biggest. Lie. Ever.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. But there are people who actually believe this.

And to them I say, have you ever seen some Catholic families? They don't start having sex until after they're married, and they have like 20 billion kids. Their own kids, in fact.

[HolyShadow]

so the point of marriage is to keep your spouse on a leash? if they want to sleap around they shouldn't have agreed to marry in the first place
Yup. Which means that you're willing to sleep around if you're not married, since you wouldn't agree to marry if you want to sleep around, and you won't agree to marry.

[maisetofan]

Biggest. Lie. Ever.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. But there are people who actually believe this.

And to them I say, have you ever seen some Catholic families? They don't start having sex until after they're married, and they have like 20 billion kids. Their own kids, in fact.

arent you catholic sally?

[MrsSallyBakura]

arent you catholic sally?

Yes I am. :)

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with having a ton of kids, but... some of these families have a ton of kids.

Not all Catholic families do though. It just depends on how the couple interprets the whole, "Sex is for unity and procreation" thing. And of course the practical stuff like health conditions of the mother and money and whatnot.

[caps]

Yup. Which means that you're willing to sleep around if you're not married, since you wouldn't agree to marry if you want to sleep around, and you won't agree to marry.

that is the converse error (math terms XP)

[DaJacksterN]

Why do people get married anyways? It's one of those things that, when asked "Do you want to get married when you grow up?" all the little girls (and boys too I guess, though not as much) say "Yes, yes I do!" And then you ask them, 'why?' And they go "Uuhh....I dunno. Because I'm supposed to."

Why do people get married? It's a ritual that most don't understand completely yet engage in anyways.

[Aninamar]

But why they shouldn't get married? Why shouldn't they confirm their unity with each other? You get to unite not only you, but also your families. If two people love each other and are sure they want to spend the rest of their lives with their beloved ones, why it shouldn't be acknowledged to other people? Especially since it also helps in the future - less law issues...

OH SCREW THIS!

YEAH, I KNOW - YOU'RE TERRIFIED because you might explode when standing at the altar. But this is real life and we're NOT in Japan!!!!

Seriously now. I think it's just some sort of fulfillment. It's like mopping up a game after you know you've already won it. Sort of sealing the deal.

[HeartRyou]

Why do people get married anyways? It's one of those things that, when asked "Do you want to get married when you grow up?" all the little girls (and boys too I guess, though not as much) say "Yes, yes I do!" And then you ask them, 'why?' And they go "Uuhh....I dunno. Because I'm supposed to."

Why do people get married? It's a ritual that most don't understand completely yet engage in anyways.

Then why is gay marriage such a big deal? :confused: During the marriage ceremony you promise that the two of you will love and cherish each other forever, many people that reassurance.

And using little kids isn't a great example, they don't always understand complex concepts like spending the rest of your life another human being. Adults are the ones that get married, not children.

[DaJacksterN]

When I said little girls I meant people my age. They are asked "Do you plan to get married when you're older?" And all of them answered "Yes."
...
Except me.

You don't have to confirm your everlasting love with marriage though. You can simply make a promise with the other person, and it'll be just as likely to be kept. Marriage does not mean everlasting comittment--especially not since only 50% of all marriages last more than, uh...15 years, I think it was. And only 40% of those involved in these marriages consider themselves "happy."
Why does the event have to be so huge and expensive anyways? The marketing business has actually convinced women to believe that wearing a 10 000 dollar wedding dress is actually worth the money. Like wearing an outfit that cost 10 Gs will somehwere enhance your marriage and make your union happier or something. Not being pessimistic, that's just the way it goes.

So your odds of having a happy, lifelong marriage is 1/5. Seems pretty low to me.

Also, about the children: BUT, it goes to show that children are brought up with the indocrination that you should ge married from a very young age. And if you're brought up with something, you're very likely to keep it with you into adulthood.

Gay marriage: I don't personally care because I don't care for the concept of marriage anyways. But I can see where other people come from: It's an equality issue/ If heterosexuals are given the right to marry, so should we.

[HeartRyou]

15 year olds are hardly little girls. XD

[DaJacksterN]

We really are though. Immature, irresponsible and most likely a bit confused during this transition period. Society views as us little girls still, anyways. Not women yet. :V

[Aninamar]

You can simply make a promise with the other person, and it'll be just as likely to be kept. Marriage does not mean everlasting comittment--especially not since only 50% of all marriages last more than, uh...15 years, I think it was. And only 40% of those involved in these marriages consider themselves "happy."

Where are you getting this info? Remember that statistics lie very often, and those questions usually don't hold any actual meaning. I don't think people just confront the actual marriages and say: "Hey there, are you happy with each other"? So I take them with a grain of salt. Besides, consider the times. WTC crashed, THE END IS NIGH REPENT FOR YOUR SINS, we are all going to die at 20.12.2012, etc. People rush to the altars for no adequately explored reason. Also, consider that among marriages we also have late marriages (where dying after 15 years of marriage is possible. C'mon, you watched Indy 4.). Then, there are marriages that are forged by parents just because it will be of use for them. And then there are actual sensible people who don't give jack sh*t about those polls (how does it look like anyway? HAIL AND WELL MET, ARE YOU HAPPY TOGETHER? HEY, ARE YOU FOLKS HAPPY TOGETHER? WHADDYA MEAN YOUR WIFE WILL KILL YOU IF YOU SAY NO? OH, BECAUSE SHE'S STANDING HERE? SO WHAT????)

Besides, no weddings = LK wouldn't weddingroll his wife which would make our life more miserable.

15 year olds are hardly little girls. XD

Maybe Jackster just loves to roleplay Lolis.

Society views as us little girls still,

Little girls can't buy condoms.

[Oath]

sex before marriage, yeah go ahead.

[DaJacksterN]

Give Oath a cookie. :V

[Aninamar]

I wouldn't give a cookie to anyone if I wasn't sure I'm obliged to participate in the discussion. (Also known as: either you have no idea what are you talking about or you are damn lucky.)

[HolyShadow]

sex before marriage, yeah go ahead.
Didn't having sex make you feel closer to your girlfriend and make it all the more devastating when she left you?

[Oath]

Didn't having sex make you feel closer to your girlfriend and make it all the more devastating when she left you?

hmmm, idk im not really sure what to say there, im mean any guy would miss havin sex.

have sex when both partners know its right. when they are prepared (contraception), when when they are ready. I think its okay to have sex before marriage becuz after you get married you wont be "free"

Well HS, i dont think per say we were closer after, but that we were close enough beforehand to have sex, N i was devistaed becuz of another reason, right now im good again n enjoyin n tryin to enjoy life.

EDIT: actually were still close, but were friends now