Incest, Pedophilia, Bestiality?

[HolyShadow]

If homosexuality if treated as morally proper and fine, then why not incest, pedophilia, and bestiality?

If it's proven that these things happen in nature, then would it be fine for us to do, as the animals we are?

Discuss.

[Aerodynamic]

According to your logic, rape should be legal because it's normal.

Stop being so fucking stupid, k? I know it's bad to flame people, but you seriously called for it.

[HolyShadow]

Why is it bad? Because you say so?

And why is rape illegal? It happens in nature.

Did I ever once say I support any of these things? I'm asking valid questions.

[Aerodynamic]

Why is it bad? Because you say so?

Are you seriously trying to defend fucking kids and animals who don't have the mental capacity to consent?

[HolyShadow]

Are you seriously trying to defend fucking kids and animals who don't have the mental capacity to consent?
Prove that they don't have the mental capacity to consent. It's currently illegal in America for two 15 year olds born at the exact same second to have sex, despite them probably being taught what sex is and all ramifications of it a few years before that.

[Aerodynamic]

And why is rape illegal? It happens in nature.

Can someone please lock this retarded topic already?

[HolyShadow]

Can someone please lock this retarded topic already?
Just because you disagree with my logic doesn't mean you should have this locked. I demand that this stay open so that we can dicuss this.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Rebbie? Pretty epic.

[Aerodynamic]

It's supposed to be a discussion, there's no reason for it to be locked.

How on Earth can anyone in their right mind discuss on whether or not rape and kid-fucking should be legal?

[HolyShadow]

How on Earth can anyone in their right mind discuss on whether or not rape and kid-fucking should be legal?
Simple. If you throw away your morals, then everything becomes simple. Without morals, there is nothing standing in your way. The bible is meant to be a moral lesson, and it succeeded, permeating every aspect of our lives. I believe that without the bible, these things may very well be legal.

[Aerodynamic]

Simple. If you throw away your morals, then everything becomes simple. Without morals, there is nothing standing in your way. The bible is meant to be a moral lesson, and it succeeded, permeating every aspect of our lives. I believe that without the bible, these things may very well be legal.

Thank God for the Bible then.

[Aerodynamic]

It makes sense if you think about it.

Yet liberal atheists want to totally separate the Bible from public life.

[OverlordTamaki]

Hm, Honestly, I think its more so the technicalities that we should do away with. Things like consensual rape.

[OverlordTamaki]

If it's consensual, is it still rape?

Maybe I'm not using the right word. I'm talking about when a person over 18 has sex with a person under 18 and they're willing, its still rape.

[HolyShadow]

If it's consensual, is it still rape?
As I said, two 15 year olds having sex is technically illegal because both are minors and therefore can't agree to the sex. Usually, the older one would be arrested. It's consensual, but it's rape.

[Aerodynamic]

That's messed up.

They don't have the mental capacity to consent, that's the thing.

[OverlordTamaki]

As for incest and bestiality, Incest is definitely just a morals thing, It doesn't have to be illegal. Bestiality, Is considered animal abuse right? I can understand that.

[maisetofan]

then where bestiality is concerned how can it not be rape where an innocent animal is the target of ones weird sexual fantasy, i mean i am sorry but screwing a defenseless animal? Wrong!!!!

[maisetofan]

how can one know if an animal wants sex with a human?

[Aerodynamic]

how can one know if an animal wants sex with a human?

Animals have sex on instinct.

[HolyShadow]

how can one know if an animal wants sex with a human?
My mother's female dog mounts her leg all the time. Her dog is horny and wants sex.

[Aerodynamic]

... and since Humans are animals, Incest, Pedophilia, and Bestiality are perfectly acceptable.

We're different than other animals.

[AdmiralAwesome]

Homosexuality is OK because it occurs between two "rational" adults and doesn't involve procreation, but simply recreation.

Incest is wrong because the resulting offspring are very likely to have recessive genes giving mutations, which as a result will affect the offsprings physical, mental and sociological wellbeing. Not to mention it is likely to involve government expenses in order to provide care for said problem. So why should the government have to pay for this couple to add some genetically disadvantaged people into the breeding population?

Paedophilia is wrong because children under 13 are not yet fully equipped for procreation, and those who are, ie 15 year olds, with say, a 25 year old man is wrong because he is likely to be (stature wise) quite an influencing person in the relationship. In other words, he will find it easier to bend her will. So you cannot tell whether she is really thinking for herself in this situation.

As for Beastiality: Knock yourself out.......All that I can say is, you won't be catching me do that EVER! Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

[Aerodynamic]

Homosexuality is OK

Not to me.

[HolyShadow]

We're different than other animals.

No, sweets, we're not. We're just a tad smarter than them. Nothing more. After all, Elephants have proven that they have artistic skill without being taught it. They'll draw in the sand by their own will with sticks and such.


Homosexuality is OK because it occurs between two "rational" adults and doesn't involve procreation, but simply recreation.

...Eh. That's one reason. It's based on love, or at least it's supposed to be.

Incest is wrong because the resulting offspring are very likely to have recessive genes giving mutations, which as a result will affect the offsprings physical, mental and sociological wellbeing. Not to mention it is likely to involve government expenses in order to provide care for said problem. So why should the government have to pay for this couple to add some genetically disadvantaged people into the breeding population?Because of love. Are you going to deny their love because it's inconvenient? How cruel.

Paedophilia is wrong because children under 13 are not yet fully equipped for procreation, and those who are, ie 15 year olds, with say, a 25 year old man is wrong because he is likely to be (stature wise) quite an influencing person in the relationship. In other words, he will find it easier to bend her will. So you cannot tell whether she is really thinking for herself in this situation.And why can't two 15 year olds have sex? Well?

As for Beastiality: Knock yourself out.......All that I can say is, you won't be catching me do that EVER! Whatever floats your boat, I suppose....lawlz.

[Aerodynamic]

No, sweets, we're not. We're just a tad smarter than them. Nothing more. After all, Elephants have proven that they have artistic skill without being taught it. They'll draw in the sand by their own will with sticks and such.

Can an elephant draw the Mona Lisa? Can an elephant drive a car? Can an elephant come up the theory of relativity? Can an elephant write Shakespeare? Do elephants have morals? We're not a "tad" smarter.

And why can't two 15 year olds have sex? Well?

They don't have the mental capacity to consent.

[maisetofan]

No, sweets, we're not. We're just a tad smarter than them. Nothing more. After all, Elephants have proven that they have artistic skill without being taught it. They'll draw in the sand by their own will with sticks and such.

dont forget the monkeys, they is very smart :D
no seriously they are

[Aerodynamic]

Yes, throwing shit at each other is "very smart".

[maisetofan]

again ignorant on your part aero

what about the monkeys that are trained to help people, and they learn to read and how to rescue people

[AdmiralAwesome]

Not to me.

Well as long as it is not with you, then it doesn't affect you, does it?

[AdmiralAwesome]

No, sweets, we're not. We're just a tad smarter than them. Nothing more. After all, Elephants have proven that they have artistic skill without being taught it. They'll draw in the sand by their own will with sticks and such.




...Eh. That's one reason. It's based on love, or at least it's supposed to be.

Because of love. Are you going to deny their love because it's inconvenient? How cruel.
And why can't two 15 year olds have sex? Well?

...lawlz.

Hey I thought we were discussing why we think of it as morally wrong. I think I gave some pretty damn good reasons. Making mutant babies is definately wrong, especially when it is for the sake of something as superficial as "love"

[Aerodynamic]

again ignorant on your part aero

what about the monkeys that are trained to help people, and they learn to read and how to rescue people

Proof or retract.

Well as long as it is not with you, then it doesn't affect you, does it?

If someone doesn't murder me it doesn't effect me. What's your point?

[maisetofan]

Proof or retract.

there he goes again, singling me out, what a hoot

here is one site
http://www.monkeyhelpers.org/
its about monkeys who are trained to help aid the disabled in their own homes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_3583000/3583614.stm

[HeartRyou]

Incest is wrong because the resulting offspring are very likely to have recessive genes giving mutations, which as a result will affect the offsprings physical, mental and sociological wellbeing. Not to mention it is likely to involve government expenses in order to provide care for said problem. So why should the government have to pay for this couple to add some genetically disadvantaged people into the breeding population?

Paedophilia is wrong because children under 13 are not yet fully equipped for procreation, and those who are, ie 15 year olds, with say, a 25 year old man is wrong because he is likely to be (stature wise) quite an influencing person in the relationship. In other words, he will find it easier to bend her will. So you cannot tell whether she is really thinking for herself in this situation.

Does that mean a couple in which both partners carry a recessive gene for an illness shouldn't be allowed to procreate? That's eugenics.

And who decides that 15 a child is "fully equipped" for sex? Some people don't start going through puberty until their late teens. As for bending another person's will, that possible at any age. There are losers out there who specifically seek out girls with lower self-esteem because they think they'll be easier to manipulate. And you're thinking in terms of an older man with a younger girl. Would it be different if it was an older woman with a younger boy?

[Aerodynamic]

there he goes again, singling me out, what a hoot

here is one site
http://www.monkeyhelpers.org/
its about monkeys who are trained to help aid the disabled in their own homes
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_3583000/3583614.stm

Would a monkey help on its own without training?

[AdmiralAwesome]

If someone doesn't murder me it doesn't effect me. What's your point?

Thats got to be one of the most retarded things I have ever heard!

You are comparing homosexuality to murder? A recreational pass-time/"love" *cough*, between two willing participants, to the killing of a person?

They aren't even close to comparable!

[HolyShadow]

Would a monkey help on its own without training?
Would a human think on his own without training? Humans are apes, after all...

[Aerodynamic]

Would a human think on his own without training? Humans are apes, after all...

No, we are Homo sapiens.

[Tristan's Voice]

Dolphins are pretty smart, as they have fun instead of being seroius.

After being to forums where people take video games seroiusly, I'm starting to think Dolphins are smarter than us.

Why so serious?

[Aerodynamic]

All this time they have been trying to warn us about the impending doom on Earth, but we have completely misinterpreted their dance moves.

[maisetofan]

lol remember that simpsons episode
Dolphins are VERY smart and VERY evil

[Aerodynamic]

Shut up.

[HolyShadow]

SO LONG AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH. SO SAD THAT IT HAS COME TO THIS. WE TRIED TO WARN YOU ALL BUT OH DEEEEEEEEEEEEEAR.

*Ahem*

Back on topic, then. Humans evolved from monkeys.

[maisetofan]

oh there he goes again, i just say one word and he tells me to shut up
"what a hoot" and someone who is going to be banned soon

[Aerodynamic]

SO LONG AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH. SO SAD THAT IT HAS COME TO THIS. WE TRIED TO WARN YOU ALL BUT OH DEEEEEEEEEEEEEAR.

*Ahem*

Back on topic, then. Humans evolved from monkeys.

Then why do monkeys still exist?

[AdmiralAwesome]

Does that mean a couple in which both partners carry a recessive gene for an illness shouldn't be allowed to procreate? That's eugenics.

And who decides that 15 a child is "fully equipped" for sex? Some people don't start going through puberty until their late teens. As for bending another person's will, that possible at any age. There are losers out there who specifically seek out girls with lower self-esteem because they think they'll be easier to manipulate. And you're thinking in terms of an older man with a younger girl. Would it be different if it was an older woman with a younger boy?

I am in favour of some cases of eugenics. But in the case of incest, you are talking about unnecessary procreation resulting in a mutant when you can just find someone else and not put mutants (for lack of a better word) into the breeding population. If two unrelated people meet with the same recessive gene, then they have simply come together by chance as some cases would naturally in a breeding population. I would however have a problem if they were forming exclusive clubs where they were deliberately isolating themselves and breeding with each other.

As for being "equipped for sex", I myself dont think 15 year olds are fully ready to procreate (given the complications that often arise from minors giving birth) but there have been studies showing that younger minds, below about 18, are more influenced by their surroundings than older people. That is why there are ratings on movies, they dont just put them there for fun. It is up to about 18 years old that learning is a big part of a person's life.

[HolyShadow]

Then why do monkeys still exist?
Because evolution works in areas. They don't just suddenly transform. Natural selection and the like. For example, if you're stuck on an island, then you'll eat whatever fish is present there to survive. Since there's no cows there, then you won't be able to have meat like you're accustomed to. Over time, if there were several generations there, you would all become more accustomed to eating fish and would be better at catching them.

Assuming that there are no tools, the species might even be able to develop physical attributes that help you eat anything that you can. Or you'll die. Whichever comes first.

[AdmiralAwesome]

Then why do monkeys still exist?

It wasn't as if all primates all at once decided to get down from the trees and look for food in the grassland

[HeartRyou]

But inbreeding doesn't guarantee 100% that a baby will be born with a second head. Forming clubs to produce mutant babies... sounds like the plot for the next X-men movie.:thatface:

[darkarcher]

Why is everyone in here assuming that incest will always involve intercourse and conception?

[Tristan's Voice]

All this time they have been trying to warn us about the impending doom on Earth, but we have completely misinterpreted their dance moves.

I am saying that they are smart enough to see beyond the "mirror"

I remember going to Smashboards (huge charater background for the real person behind Tristan's Voice coming in 3...2...1...), they took the SSBB too seroiusly, like "Fair to DI SHDL". I was wondering why they took the game so seroiusly. It's like Kiaba and the fact that Yugi beat him in a childrens card game

The troll is banned (what a waste of a good name), however, so we can get back to buisness.

What if there was a same sex Beastiaitly Rape that was Incest because it took place 200 years from now and Animals mated with humans so your brother was half monkey? :squintyface:

[MrsSallyBakura]

Technically our race had to commit incestuous sex and conception at some point... I've heard an explanation about why it was OK back then but I don't remember it. Would someone care to discuss?

[HeartRyou]

Why is everyone in here assuming that incest will always involve intercourse and conception?

Why assume otherwise?

[MrsSallyBakura]

Why assume otherwise?

Probably because relatives can still molest you without having sex with you.

[darkarcher]

Technically our race had to commit incestuous sex and conception at some point... I've heard an explanation about why it was OK back then but I don't remember it. Would someone care to discuss?

From a Christian perspective it's that the human genome was unmutated so inbreeding would not cause defects as seen today.

From an evolutionary standpoint either: A. humanity grew out of whatever defects were caused or B. A single male/female had multiple partners, resulting in a varied enough gene-pool among the offspring that inbreeding was not a problem.

[HeartRyou]

Probably because relatives can still molest you without having sex with you.

I didn't think about that. But I thought we were discussing consensual incest. Molestation is molestation no matter who does it.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I didn't think about that. But I thought we were discussing consensual incest.

Understandable assumption.

And thanks Dark.

[Fat1Fared]

Technically our race had to commit incestuous sex and conception at some point... I've heard an explanation about why it was OK back then but I don't remember it. Would someone care to discuss?

There are several theories on this, but one I personally believe, is that because the genre pool had just started at that point, it was still very "individual," "Pure" and "Newl"

Basically, it was new race meaning all genre pools where still different and "unevoluted" (in the passing on sense of word, meaning still chance, just small one as so pure still (sorry cannot think of better word)) and so this meant, having sex within the group was fine, however as the group breeds more and more, the genres would begin their natural progression through breeding and genre swapping, and in this will come natural Mutations and defects, (like with if crafting a piece off wood, no matter what make and how smooth you make it, there will always be some groves along way) and so as these increase, it means the genre pool has to keep moving further and further away from the orgunial source, in order to lessen chance of finding someone with same mutation, as the matutions are more likely to be same/similar when coming from same source

(Hope that makes sense sally, if doesn't, just say and I will find you a page which can explain it better than me)

(and this still holds some solise today, as I COULD (not going to) have sex with my sister today and only increase the chance of defect by something like 6%, however if we inbreed for 3 generations, it moves up to something like 50% (cannot remember the numbers fully and cannot be bothered to look them up lol)

If homosexuality if treated as morally proper and fine, then why not incest, pedophilia, and bestiality?

If it's proven that these things happen in nature, then would it be fine for us to do, as the animals we are?

Discuss.

This actually, an interesting point, but think it once again comes down to harm caused by action:-

-Homosexuality, whether just love, or sex, generally doesn't have a negative foreseeable effect and so that is why most poeple are now taking a lessiy faire view to it

However these others are bit more complicated:-

1=Incest=Now this is easy of 3, as though dark makes a valid point, that we are all taking it that we are on about incestual sex, which I two think is holy's point, however if it was just love without sex, then techinolly on my "Harm Test" their is nothing wrong with it, so I suppose just accept it. However once sex is involved, then it is wrong, as unlike with gay sex, this sex can bear a child and that child has very high chance of devopuling genetic, mental and physical defects, which in many cases, can be very severer, this because the genre needs to expand and change, otherwise you end up suffering from what is known as the symmetrical effect, where weakness's in orginual genre pool are made more and more strong/common, in the pool we are looking (until goes from less 1% to 100%, if do it enough)

However, there is one problem with, and that is we are making another assumption, that this is straight sex, what if it is incestual gay sex, again no baby can be made, so really the only risks are those that normal gay couple has (though little higher,) which means again this is tech ok

2=pedophilia=Now this is a hard one, as depends, as there needs to be a cut off point, where say, no that person is too young to understand what doing and is in position where the older partner has too much control in relationship, now in our societies governments have done tests....etc and come to conclusion mid-teens is right age, normally ranges from 15-18, however in some societies, it can be as young as 12, now many will caste them off as "LESSER" societies, however japan has very young age (13-14 I think) and that is one of most "advanced" societies in world. So in truth this is far more subjective than may first seem, it is wrong, but what goes from wrong to right is very gray area and probably depends on poeple involved, however it is one society needs to watch, as if isn't some control, some will abuse it.

For me personally I feel most are not ready till about 17-18, however some think they are ready at 12, so who knows in truth, all we can say is that there is a cut off point and if there isn't some control, things will go wrong,

bestiality=Well, here we have two things to think of=-

1=Right of animal=Now the animal cannot consent techincolly, and we can never know if animal likes it or not, so on objective/literal level, it is rape, however some may say that animals don't care with sex, if in season it is natural and have been cases where animals of different sex have sex. But on whole, from subjective view of objective info, we can say that animal doesn't have enough choice for it to be fair

2=Deiase=Now as know humans have sexually passable deiases and so it is a risk we must all take, and so some would say, does fact Animals have them as well matter. Yes it does, as animals have lot more of these and humans are very weak to them, as we haven't evoluted defenses against them, (Aids came from monkey's,) and if someone has sex with an animal, then a human, they will have very good chance of passing something on, and doesn't take much for it to spread. So intruth this is risk cannot take, as though could say that well, if only doing it with animals, then ok, but do you want to take the risk

[HeartRyou]

Not sure how on topic this is, but how come some people disassociate shatacon and lolicon from pedophilia? Not saying people who like shota are all bad people but kiddy porn is kiddy porn, why is it less wrong if it's animated/drawn? Same with incest.

[MrsSallyBakura]

There are several theories on this, but one I personally believe, is that because the genre pool had just started at that point, it was still very "individual," "Pure" and "Newl"

Basically, it was new race meaning all genre pools where still different and "unevoluted" (in the passing on sense of word, meaning still chance, just small one as so pure still (sorry cannot think of better word)) and so this meant, having sex within the group was fine, however as the group breeds more and more, the genres would begin their natural progression through breeding and genre swapping, and in this will come natural Mutations and defects, (like with if crafting a piece off wood, no matter what make and how smooth you make it, there will always be some groves along way) and so as these increase, it means the genre pool has to keep moving further and further away from the orgunial source, in order to lessen chance of finding someone with same mutation, as the matutions are more likely to be same/similar when coming from same source

(Hope that makes sense sally, if doesn't, just say and I will find you a page which can explain it better than me)

(and this still holds some solise today, as I COULD (not going to) have sex with my sister today and only increase the chance of defect by something like 6%, however if we inbreed for 3 generations, it moves up to something like 50% (cannot remember the numbers fully and cannot be bothered to look them up lol)

I think I know what you're getting at. Thanks for your answer.

Not sure how on topic this is, but how come some people disassociate shatacon and lolicon from pedophilia? Not saying people who like shota are all bad people but kiddy porn is kiddy porn, why is it less wrong if it's animated/drawn? Same with incest.

I don't think it makes it any less wrong, really. Pedobear actually frightens me, lol.

[killshot]

Not sure how on topic this is, but how come some people disassociate shatacon and lolicon from pedophilia? Not saying people who like shota are all bad people but kiddy porn is kiddy porn, why is it less wrong if it's animated/drawn? Same with incest.

Drawn pornography of this nature is much different than the real thing. The drawn characters can be exaggerated to appear more mature in some areas (such as more defined secondary sex characteristics) while maintaining a childlike innocence that some people are attracted to. Even if someone is aroused by the idea of lolicon/shotacon, chances are they will never act on this fantasy because of the number of differences between real and drawn children. Drawn children can be cute, innocent, and depending on the artist, they can be seductive in a way. Real kids are dirty, sticky, and annoying.



I personally don't see what is so taboo about incest. As long as it is taking place between two consenting adults and there is no possibility of a child being spawned, it doesn't concern me.


Bestiality is somewhat harder to call. I suppose if the animal isn't being harmed then it's alright, but I don't know enough about the harmful effects of bestiality to have an opinion one way or the other. I'd look out for legionnaire's disease if you did decide to go to town on an animal, however.


Pedophilia is also hard to establish guidelines for. Historically, young children had sex with older people all the time. Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agoge#Roman_agoge) is a fine example, where young boys around age 13 had homosexual relationships with older soldiers as sort of a teacher/pupil traditional relationship. There are many instances of younger girls marrying older men throughout history and this has only recently become morally questionable.

As of right now, pedophilia is most definitely wrong. Our culture raises children to believe that underage sex is wrong, so for the time being, as long as children grow up believing it is wrong, it is. If our society had a less serious attitude about having sex with younger children, then perhaps the kids that have sex at an early age won't grow up thinking they did something wrong, or something wrong was done to them. I'm not qualified to analyze the the emotional effects sex itself has on children, but maybe pedophilia isn't as damaging as most believe.

[HolyShadow]

1=Right of animal=Now the animal cannot consent techincolly, and we can never know if animal likes it or not, so on objective/literal level, it is rape, however some may say that animals don't care with sex, if in season it is natural and have been cases where animals of different sex have sex. But on whole, from subjective view of objective info, we can say that animal doesn't have enough choice for it to be fair
And if the animal mounts the human, and the human accepts it? The animal chose to mount, and the human chose to consent. Seems fair to me.

[DaJacksterN]

What, having sex with dogs is wrong???
:O
OH SHIT.

>_>
<_<
...
*Runs away*

xD

[HeartRyou]

Don't forget, there's also an element of domination in terms of sex. When a dog humps your leg, that doesn't always mean it's feeling randy. It's his/her way of saying "I own you." You can't really tell the difference with animals, so saying "it wanted it" doesn't really fly as an excuse.

[HolyShadow]

Don't forget, there's also an element of domination in terms of sex. When a dog humps your leg, that doesn't always mean it's feeling randy. It's his/her way of saying "I own you." You can't really tell the difference with animals, so saying "it wanted it" doesn't really fly as an excuse.
Same for humans.

[maisetofan]

humans hump legs? ;)

[HeartRyou]

Drawn children can be cute, innocent, and depending on the artist, they can be seductive in a way. Real kids are dirty, sticky, and annoying.
I'm pretty sure pedophiles still find children attractive despite them being "dirty, sticky, and annoying." And do you really think there's anything cute or innocent about eight year olds having sex?

As of right now, pedophilia is most definitely wrong. Our culture raises children to believe that underage sex is wrong, so for the time being, as long as children grow up believing it is wrong, it is. If our society had a less serious attitude about having sex with younger children, then perhaps the kids that have sex at an early age won't grow up thinking they did something wrong, or something wrong was done to them. I'm not qualified to analyze the the emotional effects sex itself has on children, but maybe pedophilia isn't as damaging as most believe.

Pedophilia and underage sex are different. And yes, pedophilia is as damaging "as most believe." There are numerous studies in psychological journals that describe the emotional and psychological effects on a child as a result of sexual abuse.

I wonder if you'd change your mind after you had kids of your own?

[HolyShadow]

humans hump legs? ;)
Girls hump third legs. Does that count?

[killshot]

I'm pretty sure pedophiles still find children attractive despite them being "dirty, sticky, and annoying." And do you really think there's anything cute or innocent about eight year olds having sex?

I never said that pedophiles didn't find real children attractive. I was answering your question about the difference between people who are aroused by lolicon/shotacon and real pedophiles. There is a major distinction between finding children arousing and understanding how someone could find children arousing. Please don't confuse me for the former.


Pedophilia and underage sex are different. And yes, pedophilia is as damaging "as most believe." There are numerous studies in psychological journals that describe the emotional and psychological effects on a child as a result of sexual abuse.

Can you give me a specific study to support your argument? Is there a difference between sexual activity and sexual abuse when it comes to young children? I'm not trying to say that you are wrong, I am just trying to view this issue from another perspective.

I wonder if you'd change your mind after you had kids of your own?

I'm sure having kids of my own would destroy my objectivity. Once again, I am in no way advocating pedophilia. It's just fun to play devil's advocate every once in a while.

[HeartRyou]

I never said that pedophiles didn't find real children attractive. I was answering your question about the difference between people who are aroused by lolicon/shotacon and real pedophiles. There is a major distinction between finding children arousing and understanding how someone could find children arousing. Please don't confuse me for the former.

Can you give me a specific study to support your argument? Is there a difference between sexual activity and sexual abuse when it comes to young children? I'm not trying to say that you are wrong, I am just trying to view this issue from another perspective.

Would you want your kid or any kid you know going to a school where a teacher has craploads of shota/loli on his desktop? I wasn't accusing you of being a pedophile, I was saying that based on your response you obviously weren't. The idea of the "perfect child" is why pedophiles love child beauty pageants so much. I don't understand it at all, children who haven't gone through puberty don't engage in sexual activity because they're not equipped to. Therefore there should be no sexual connection unless someone who enjoys such things is in fact a pedophile.

I'll try to look for a study but it'll take me a while, it's a lot of work looking through psychological journals. I'm just trying to figure out why not as many people seem as disgusted by shota/loli as I am.

[maisetofan]

Girls hump third legs. Does that count?

LOL innuendo :thatface:

[VegitarianZombie]

Pedophillia:I think your your "It happens in nature" argument is flawed. As far as I know, besides dolphins, HUMANS are the only animals that have sex for recreation. And all other animals have sex ONLY FOR PROCREATION. And I'm pretty sure that PEDOPHILLIA CAN ONLY BE USED FOR RECREATION. But I am not an expert in anatomy so I could be wrong, and I am very open for constructive criticism on this point.

Looking at some of the other posts I see mentions to sexual realtionships between individuals of thirteen or fifteen years of age and people older than twenty. Personaly, I don't consider this pedophillia(even though I don't condone such relationships in any way, shape, or form). I always considered pedophillia to be sexual relationships between someone who has not gone through puberty yet and someone who is going/has gone through puberty. Just thinlk about it, at eight years old could really even COMPREHEND sex? Let alone CONSET to it? I know I probably could'nt. So you are taking advantage of a childs ignorance in order to satisfy your desieres. Also, uninhibited sex(like two people who have gone through puberty and are trying to procreate would do) between an eight year old and a fourteen year old could casue severe physical problems on the part of the young child (to put it VERY BLUNTLY (so much so that some might take offense), I doubt an eight year old vagina could handle an uninhibited fourteen year old penis).:eek:

As for whether or not it has negative pyschological effects, my cousin is a baby-snatcher(not literally, she takes children from abusive parrents and places them in foster care) and it fucks with peoples brains for life, there really is no way around it.

Bestiality
Again, your "It happnes in nature" argument may be flawed. Unless it has been trained by humans to specifically do so, I have never herd of an animal having sex with a different animal. And I don't think that a monkey having sex with a different kind of monkey or a cat having sex with a different kind of cat or something of that nature counts as bestiality(that means Ligers).

But personaly, as long as it does not hurt the animal and it shows no discomfort while doing so...I can't see a reason in condeming it.

IncestAs long as it is between two consenting adults I could really care less.

Last valid point You should try to be so blatanty homophobic, since this is probably just a response to most of the arguments on the Homosexuality thread.

Random Point
Concerning Japan, each city has it's own age of consent, and the MINIMUM you are allowed is thireteen.

[redpheonix]

I would say pedophilia / incest is worse than homosexuality ( which does not bother me at all)...............and bestiality its just gross

those three should just not be done

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[maisetofan]

i know pedophilia is awful, its basically rape or at the very least exploitation of a child, adolescent and bestiality? yeah if you wanna get it on with sheep go right ahead Ew


and incest, a brother and a sister thinking of each other in that way?
SICK OUTRAGEOUS lol i know its goes on but still

how could these thing possibly be on the same level as homosexuality?

[redpheonix]

I dont see them that way, if your homosexual that is your business im cool with it

but i might hunt you down and kill you if you are a pedophile, and i might want to get you therapy if you are sexually attracted to by dog, and might throw up if i know you were made in an incestuous union or have those feelings.

[killshot]

As far as I know, besides dolphins, HUMANS are the only animals that have sex for recreation. And all other animals have sex ONLY FOR PROCREATION.

Many species of apes have recreational sex as well as several other kinds of animals. Any animal who engages in sex with a member of the same sex is doing so recreationally. There are a few animals, such as chimpanzees, who masturbate. Masturbation serves no procreational purpose, does it?

How can you tell if animals are mating for procreation or recreation? Could it be that they all are having sex because it's fun and they only have babies because they haven't invented animal birth control? You have no way of knowing what an animal's intentions are, so how can you say some animals have sex for pleasure while others do so for procreation?

[Dee-Zaster]

Wow. Awesome topic. :'3
According to your logic, since we're animals then we should not be punished for things like rape, etc. But...I do believe that we have the actual mental capacity to tell right from wrong. But that still doesn't prove whether or not rape is wrong. Also if rape is illegal then that's what the government believes is wrong. We're basically adhereing to governments ethics. :/

I think that this is all subject to a person's ethos. :3
I mean I think your points are all pretty vaild..also...when you think about it incest brings about deformity in children of incest and deformity isn't naturally found in nature is it? Well, I don't believe deformity as a result of incest is naturally found in nature.( I'm not sure) From that I conclude that incest is wrong. But...I don't give a shit. XD

So what I'm I saying? Fsh...-sigh- I dunno. I can't give a straight response because the question can take so many sides. Damn. >_>;

Why is everyone in here assuming that incest will always involve intercourse and conception?


We'll we're only trying to make a point and using a worst case scenario such as intercourse and conception when dealing with incest helps the argument.

[Spoofs3]

Ok, I have seen this thread and it interests me (Seeing as we were talking about Incest in IRC yesterday I believe)
And let me give you my mentally scarring, And pointless ideas on the point of discussion.

Pedophilia
Its wrong, No questions.
0-11 Year olds.
This is because the body gives its own limit for it to be ready for such actions, Its not yet ready to apprehend such actions, So why Should they be getting it on?
Same age or otherwise

11-Legal Age
This however is a different story, If two people of the same age wish to consent and have sex (With knowledge on the subject and how to prevent pregnancy... Shouldn't be hard to find, In Ireland we start Sex Ed at 12)
But for a teen to go with a older man (See older as in what society thinks of Pedo) No, That is sick and should not be alloud 100%
Same age is one thing, HUGE GAP is another thing.


incest:
In every case? Go knock yourself out, Its one of the most common ideas which is downed because of the risks. BUT, What in the cases as followed
Didn't know?
Long lost brother, Married long lost sister only to find out later, Should their love be disapproved because of the new truth? Is it not still love?
Did know, but don't care,
Love so strong that they don't care about the risks, Its still love
Homosexual Incest?
No risk, 100% safe, Why should they not be alloud to do it?

Also in the past, Humans HAVE been proven to do it to get up to this many, Remember, There were only 7 Eves when we developed (I am thinking scientifically, Not to offend religious peoples)
Which means those 7 had to create around 7 Billion, Some incest took place Me thinks.

Bestiality:
Call me crazy, But I give it a thumbs up (For those into it anyways)
It has been proven that some animals mate for pleasure and some animals DO try mate with humans.
But look under these ideas:
Advanced Beastiality: Take it an Alien comes to earth, Intellegent, knows how to say yes, its still beastialoty due to being a different species, But its ok, So technically its ok, Not rape.
Normal Beasty: It goes on you first, On many stages animals CAN let you know that it wants it, And in fact, In some cases 2 Male dogs will start to fight over a human if they both want to mate with them.
Also it has been proven that a monkey has fallen in love with a woman (A woman in a monkey sanctuary, When i heard about it I lol'd)
So why can't these love be taken to another level?



Just my opinion and just to say, I don't take part in any, But thats what I say to those of you who do ^_^

[Skarphedin]

Why is everyone in here assuming that incest will always involve intercourse and conception?

Probably because that's literally what incest means. Conception would probably be better defined as inbreeding though.

[Fat1Fared]

Would you want your kid or any kid you know going to a school where a teacher has craploads of shota/loli on his desktop? I wasn't accusing you of being a pedophile, I was saying that based on your response you obviously weren't. The idea of the "perfect child" is why pedophiles love child beauty pageants so much. I don't understand it at all, children who haven't gone through puberty don't engage in sexual activity because they're not equipped to. Therefore there should be no sexual connection unless someone who enjoys such things is in fact a pedophile.

I'll try to look for a study but it'll take me a while, it's a lot of work looking through psychological journals. I'm just trying to figure out why not as many people seem as disgusted by shota/loli as I am.


You, you need to be careful here, as I personally found the idea of looking at cartoon poeple (aspacially child like ones) for sexual pleasure strange and unappealing, however that is my personal opinion and I wouldn't stop another from doing it, as does a man/WOMAN (as don't think their isn't female versions) doing this really harm anyone, no as long as keeps to themself, as private thing then there is no harm in it, because unlike in real Child Porn, the person in picture is not real and so cannot have the negative mental repercussions from the making and using of these pictures.

Now with class of a teacher, again unless he is showing his classes pictures which would be deemed inappropriate for class viewing, as it is outside what teacher should/needs to show a class, then again, it is his private life, so I believe he should be allowed it

Now before say, well what about him being kiddie Pornster, their is difference, and neither should be mixed with other.

If he is into Child Porn, then that and not his strange Animie hobbie is what must be looked at, I know it only seems subtle difference, but subtle differences can still change everything

Spoofs

incest:
In every case? Go knock yourself out, Its one of the most common ideas which is downed because of the risks. BUT, What in the cases as followed
Didn't know?
Long lost brother, Married long lost sister only to find out later, Should their love be disapproved because of the new truth? Is it not still love?
Did know, but don't care,
Love so strong that they don't care about the risks, Its still love
Homosexual Incest?
No risk, 100% safe, Why should they not be alloud to do it?

Also in the past, Humans HAVE been proven to do it to get up to this many, Remember, There were only 7 Eves when we developed (I am thinking scientifically, Not to offend religious peoples)
Which means those 7 had to create around 7 Billion, Some incest took place Me thinks.


How can you say this, now with homosexual one/unknowing/monogamous couples, I have already stated, that is extra side which has no risks outside couple involved or didn't know of the risks, so if really wish then leave them to it, however with straight couple, how can you condone allowing to poeple to knowingly have sex with high risk of bringing a child into this world, which will be (through their actions) handicapped and many cases to a surfver level, I mean if we just forget the knock on effects in wider world, lets face it, can you really justify your selfish wants for sexual pleasure for the payment of a child/child's who will have a high chance of living a life of pain and mesry

As for last point, me and Dark already stated reasons for this and how differentiates from today

Bestiality:
Call me crazy, But I give it a thumbs up (For those into it anyways)
It has been proven that some animals mate for pleasure and some animals DO try mate with humans.
But look under these ideas:
Advanced Beastiality: Take it an Alien comes to earth, Intellegent, knows how to say yes, its still beastialoty due to being a different species, But its ok, So technically its ok, Not rape.
Normal Beasty: It goes on you first, On many stages animals CAN let you know that it wants it, And in fact, In some cases 2 Male dogs will start to fight over a human if they both want to mate with them.
Also it has been proven that a monkey has fallen in love with a woman (A woman in a monkey sanctuary, When i heard about it I lol'd)
So why can't these love be taken to another level?

Well with the animal wants point, cannot really tell, so stated my opinion there and nothing more to say, however, like I said above, the risks of spreading disease from this is massive and that is why it is wrong, if person really only ever did sex with animals, then it is his choice, however he is then going to have sex with other humans as well, again he is going to have high chance of causing real problems for others

[Spoofs3]

Spoofs

how can you condone allowing to poeple to knowingly have sex with high risk of bringing a child into this world, which will be (through their actions) handicapped and many cases to a surfver level, I mean if we just forget the knock on effects in wider world, lets face it, can you really justify your selfish wants for sexual pleasure for the payment of a child/child's who will have a high chance of living a life of pain and mesry

That is wrong in so many ways, 1. It is WORST CASE SCENARIO
2. Contraception helps in this case
3. Humans HAD to use incest to get to this stage in life, Why not repeat?
4. It could NOT be selfish sexual needs, It COULD be real love, And whats the highest form of love? Sex, So why deny their love by the ultimate form of love?



Well with the animal wants point, cannot really tell, so stated my opinion there and nothing more to say, however, like I said above, the risks of spreading disease from this is massive and that is why it is wrong, if person really only ever did sex with animals, then it is his choice, however he is then going to have sex with other humans as well, again he is going to have high chance of causing real problems for others

Not ALL disease is spread through humans and animals and those that ARE have complete different zones, It is only rarely that we find a disease that skips from one to another.
So yeah

[Orga777]

........This is one of the reasons I stopped showing up for the last week.... These Serious Discussions.... Jeez... Either I disagree vehemently (in the case of Illegal Immigration) or someone posts a topic like THIS (that was made to just prove a point I think) that actually GAINS support... Holy hell, we really do live in an era with no morals.

Just wanted to come in and say that. You guys can continue this...... "discussion."

[HeartRyou]

You, you need to be careful here, as I personally found the idea of looking at cartoon poeple (aspacially child like ones) for sexual pleasure strange and unappealing, however that is my personal opinion and I wouldn't stop another from doing it, as does a man/WOMAN (as don't think their isn't female versions) doing this really harm anyone, no as long as keeps to themself, as private thing then there is no harm in it, because unlike in real Child Porn, the person in picture is not real and so cannot have the negative mental repercussions from the making and using of these pictures.

But don't you believe that pornography has desensitizing properties? That is, if some perv watches his child porn over and over again, the line between fantasy and reality start to dissipate. Would you date a chick with crap loads of shota on her computer?

Now with class of a teacher, again unless he is showing his classes pictures which would be deemed inappropriate for class viewing, as it is outside what teacher should/needs to show a class, then again, it is his private life, so I believe he should be allowed it

Wait til' ya have kids. ;)

Orga, I agree. But you have to be willing to stand up for your beliefs. Then those of us with the same opinion have no one to back us up.
And yeah, HS started this thread because of Jackster's "the world would be better without religion" stance.

[Spoofs3]

Yes, but is also very high risk, worse case scenario, and that is why is easily foreseeable and Avoidable, and mate love between two poeple is selfish act, not saying that is wrong in general, but in this case being selfish harms another and they don't need to do that selfish act, but you know what spoofs have a sex with your sister, get a handicapped child, who has life of pain and your life is used caring for it then we will see if think what did was justifiable

But I know, that no matter what I felt for someone, I could never take the risk of doing that to another human, (racking its life, before poor thing is even born)

As for the it happened in past point, already dealt and scientific fact, we cannot continue doing that without problems. However if forget this fact, you know what spoofs, we drank and poo'ed in same rivers in past as well, want to start that practice up again?

But it is worst case scenario, Contraception SHOULD be used with incest and also to be wary of making offspring in the first place, So getting a child shouldn't be a problem at the odds (Odds of getting pregnant with Max contraception, Odds of handicapped offspring by getting Genetic Gene)


We didn't... All ANimals know basic hygiene... DOn't try give the past a bad name without reason... We did not poo in the same river as we drank of, And TECHNICALLY we still do (Sewer system sometimes leads to rivers and whatnot)
But the past DOES have some things that were given up, You cannot list the bad ones that were given up and expect them to be the same, Because they are not.



Never said all disease came from Animals (facepalm) I said that having sex with Animals has a high risk, like having sex with a Reias Monkey has like 70% chance of giving you aids, and also said, if really want to do that, then that is fine, but don't start passing it onto others humans

PS no it isn't rare, many diseases, easily travel between animals, it just changes itself to survive

Actually, Many of those diseases that travel between Animals and Humans are noit transfered by Sex, Only a minority CAN be transfered by Sex, You bring up AIDS and that I agree, BUT thats one case, Out of most of the STDs we get, Most of them HAVE been tracked back to other Human diseases, Not Animal diseases.
Very little Sexual diseases transfer due to the difference in genetic Make up and whatnot.

[divine1]

this thread tells the truth. No matter what morals we were taught, since right and wrong don't exist, the subject of these things being NOT wrong Is true. I'm not saying I think these are good, or that people should go out and do them, I'm just saying that though we may not like them, they are not really "wrong"

[Kochiha]

All I have to say on this subject is this: who is it that determines right from wrong? Who has the authority to manipulate human nature and make laws dictating what people do in their free time? The only reason Christians get away with it is because they have this fear of some god.

[Orga777]

Orga, I agree. But you have to be willing to stand up for your beliefs. Then those of us with the same opinion have no one to back us up.
And yeah, HS started this thread because of Jackster's "the world would be better without religion" stance.

Problem is that I am not religious at all, and this topic sickens me. You shouldn't have to be religious to know that this stuff... is either 1) not natural, or 2) WRONG.

All I have to say on this subject is this: who is it that determines right from wrong? Who has the authority to manipulate human nature and make laws dictating what people do in their free time? The only reason Christians get away with it is because they have this fear of some god.

Kay Adolf. We should all be allowed to rape, pillage, steal, murder, and destroy all we come in contact with. Sounds like a plan. Maybe you should be the first victim if the world ever went in that direction... then I would wonder how you would feel....

[darkarcher]

The whole point of this thread is that people attempt to assign some value of right and wrong without any sort of basis other than their personal opinion. Holy made the thread in order to show people that you can't just pick and choose things that are supposed to be right and wrong. You have to have some sort of constant basis that you weigh everything against.

[divine1]

Problem is that I am not religious at all, and this topic sickens me. You shouldn't have to be religious to know that this stuff... is either 1) not natural, or 2) WRONG.



Kay Adolf. We should all be allowed to rape, pillage, steal, murder, and destroy all we come in contact with. Sounds like a plan. Maybe you should be the first victim if the world ever went in that direction... then I would wonder how you would feel....

You only think it's "wrong" becuase you were taught to believe so.

[HolyShadow]

Kay Adolf. We should all be allowed to rape, pillage, steal, murder, and destroy all we come in contact with. Sounds like a plan. Maybe you should be the first victim if the world ever went in that direction... then I would wonder how you would feel....
Don't forget eating. You should feast on his flesh and eat his heart to gain his courage... his rich, tasty courage. *Smacks lips*

[loveistears]

All I have to say on this subject is this: who is it that determines right from wrong? Who has the authority to manipulate human nature and make laws dictating what people do in their free time? The only reason Christians get away with it is because they have this fear of some god.

I agree. If u like that kind of stuff more power to you. the only reason why some think it's wrong is because it's not in the bible saying its okay.

[Orga777]

You only think it's "wrong" becuase you were taught to believe so.

Right. I was also taught that killing is bad and that Santa Claus isn't real. Do you want a cookie or something for pointing out the obvious? If people don't think this is wrong or that some things aren't wrong, then you have no real place in society today. We can send them all to a deserted island somewhere where they can all degenerate as much as they want till they all kill each other.

Speaking of which, has anyone ever read Hell House? Because all I really have to do is point to that one Horror novel at where this discussion is heading on what people are hinting at. Degenerating into things less than human is what happened there. Is that what people really want?

[divine1]

#1: give me the cookie.

#2:just because you say or believe that something is wrong, it does not mean that it Is wrong.

#3: someone once said that the thing about chaos is that it is fair to all sides. I'm not saying that I agree with it, just that I think it's the truth.

#4: if you were never taught that these things are wrong/bad, you would never believe them to be.

[Orga777]

#1: give me the cookie.

*eats cookie* Sorry, what now? :p

#2:just because you say or believe that something is wrong, it does not mean that it Is wrong.

Right, so you approve of mass genocide Adolf Stalin?

#3: someone once said that the thing about chaos is that it is fair to all sides. I'm not saying that I agree with it, just that I think it's the truth.

I think you need to stop watching The Dark Knight and come back to the real world for a minute.

#4: if you were never taught that these things are wrong/bad, you would never believe them to be.

Right. Except in a civilized world, this is not the way to live. Luckly I live in a civilized world and not one of a bunch of degenerates.

But like I said, we can ship all that believe this to an island where they can do whatever they want, and when they all end up killing each other after degenerating into animals, then the rest of us can just point out how foolish it all was while eating steak with a side of greenbeans and potatoes with silverwear at a table in our nice heated home. ;)

[HolyShadow]

STEAK!? BEANS!? POTATOES!?

YOU'RE KILLING OTHER ANIMALS-- AND PLANTS! THAT'S WHAT ANIMALS DO, YOU SICK DASTARD! I say we ship you off to an island to prevent you from killing others in this world and just have you kill others who think like you. Evil dastard!

[Orga777]

STEAK!? BEANS!? POTATOES!?

YOU'RE KILLING OTHER ANIMALS-- AND PLANTS! THAT'S WHAT ANIMALS DO, YOU SICK DASTARD! I say we ship you off to an island to prevent you from killing others in this world and just have you kill others who think like you. Evil dastard!

Hmm... Dastard... I like that... It makes me sound like Dick Dastardly... Maybe I should grow a handle bar mustache and twirl it and laugh maniacly while wringling my hands.:thatface:

[divine1]

I hope you know every single thing you just said was opinion, NOT fact.And that I can't discuss this with someone blinded by their own beliefs.

And you stole my cookie.

[Orga777]

I hope you know every single thing you just said was opinion, NOT fact.And that I can't discuss this with someone blinded by their own beliefs.

And you stole my cookie.

I know it was opionion, but some times, opinions don't fit in well with, you know, living in a civilized environment. You can think what you want, but it is totally wrong. Someone could kill your entire family right in front of you, shoot you so you will be paralyized without any reason or purpose and walk out and be totally justified in your opinion. How would you take it if that happened? Which is the whole point, people think like that till it happens to them, then they want fairness and safety.

ANd the cookie was good. :p

[divine1]

Well I would be really upset as any normal person would, but they are not evil since evil does not exsist. I may hate his guts and think he is an evil bastard for what he did, but he may have thought it was the right thing to do or that it was okay. How does my opinion matter more than his?

[divine1]

There's an old saying about Incest...

O_O

[Orga777]

Well I would be really upset as any normal person would, but they are not evil since evil does not exsist. I may hate his guts and think he is an evil bastard for what he did, but he may have thought it was the right thing to do or that it was okay. How does my opinion matter more than his?

This is what makes me fear for teh future though. This thought process is dangerous and what future serial killers think. I would like that people have some sense of honor and moral compass. Going around thinking that can have the sanitarium and a psychiatrist at your heals.

This is why we actually LIVE in civilization, because the social rejects are mostly kept apart from the normal people and the human race can expand and grow. Do you know where we would be if everyone thought like what you are insinuating? We would all be naked, frothing animals rolling in our own waste with only animal instincts to guide us. Humans were put on this earth with reason and mental capacity compared to other animals. It is what separates us from them and is why we are the top of the food chain now and always since the early humans. Because we have wit, cunning, and intellect as well as being social and able to reason. If we devolve by going all "free for all," we will all eventually cease to exist or be controlled by one group of people that has something that the masses of moronic degenerates want and then the whole process would eventually start all over again.

[divine1]

Please don't get me wrong I agree with 100% of what you just said. I'm not saying killers deserve to run loose and be free I'm just saying we are forcing them to abide by the laws we make And that they may hate us for that, therefore, they are not evil and we are not good.

And we have gone way off topic so I suggest we get back to discussing what this topic is all about.

[Orga777]

Please don't get me wrong I agree with 100% of what you just said. I'm not saying killers deserve to run loose and be free I'm just saying we are forcing them to abide by the laws we make And that they may hate us for that, therefore, they are not evil and we are not good.

I understand what you are saying, but infringing on someone elses life to live is something that shouldn;t be done with anyone with any sort of compassion.

And we have gone way off topic so I suggest we get back to discussing what this topic is all about.

But... this discussion is more interesting.... XD

[Fat1Fared]

But it is worst case scenario, Contraception SHOULD be used with incest and also to be wary of making offspring in the first place, So getting a child shouldn't be a problem at the odds (Odds of getting pregnant with Max contraception, Odds of handicapped offspring by getting Genetic Gene

Well like I said, if you want to be selfish and take that risk, I cannot stop you, but you can live with the results

But then with your logic, driving through town at 70miles an hour is ok, as that still only has small risk of killing/injuring someone


We didn't... All ANimals know basic hygiene... DOn't try give the past a bad name without reason... We did not poo in the same river as we drank of, And TECHNICALLY we still do (Sewer system sometimes leads to rivers and whatnot)
But the past DOES have some things that were given up, You cannot list the bad ones that were given up and expect them to be the same, Because they are not

Spoofs this a case of taking a point and warping, please don't say I said more than I did as you do there is no point talking, as never going to be able to make a point, what I'm saying here is just because we did something in past, doesn't mean that we should continue doing it, we should do something is seems, to have good results for us without harming others (to forseeable level)

we did some good things and lots of bad things in past, and in another 1000 years, they will look at us with same view. And like I said me and Dark already gave the science behind why we cannot continue incest, however you clearly won't read that


Actually, Many of those diseases that travel between Animals and Humans are noit transfered by Sex, Only a minority CAN be transfered by Sex, You bring up AIDS and that I agree, BUT thats one case, Out of most of the STDs we get, Most of them HAVE been tracked back to other Human diseases, Not Animal diseases.
Very little Sexual diseases transfer due to the difference in genetic Make up and whatnot.

Once again, stop putting things in other poeples posts, which are not there, I said that having sex with Animials has high risk, I didn't say it was only way to spread disease and I also said, as long as don't have sex with both human and Animial, then it is their risk alone, which is different


But don't you believe that pornography has desensitizing properties? That is, if some perv watches his child porn over and over again, the line between fantasy and reality start to dissipate. Would you date a chick with crap loads of shota on her computer?


Like I said it is a very small line, but it is there, and as for the line between fantasy and reality:-

1=Can you really say that, do YOU really KNOW that? Have you do it, to see if you lose your view on Reality? (Doesn't that mean we should follow those that want to band all Animie and Fantasy as they believe it has this effect)

2=What is fantasy and what is reality?

What can seem true, can be false and what can seem false can be True, it isn't always that clear cut, if it was there would never be any debate on anything in this world (Remember the truth of a Mans eyes, always overrides the truth of the world Two famous quotes in one today lol)

-and agian the story changes, as if going out with her, then it becomes my personal life, which means it starts to affect me directly as we are involved on personal level, however until I meet a girl with that view, I cannot say (PS before say what about teacher, affecting kids, like said if he doesn't start showing kids, what is problem, watch the moive History boys, you will find that interesting)


Wait til' ya have kids. ;)


Do You have kids, as if don't you cannot make that point

Problem is that I am not religious at all, and this topic sickens me. You shouldn't have to be religious to know that this stuff... is either 1) not natural, or 2) WRONG

Like poeple said it is your opinion and the world doesn't have no morals now, it never ever had any,

1=We are no more @Sick@ @Volient@ @Sexually over Active@....etc than we ever were, infact we are lot more restiened, we are just also lot less good at hiding our acts which would be considered less than accepted now, as poeple are realising you cannot have a Black and White view on Right and Wrong anymore (if ever could)

2=Morals are not a phyiscal thing, and so cannot be anything more then beleif, and who says what you believe is right and what I believe is wrong

Take one above, I hav said strongly that the risks of incest are too great to allow it to be accepted, (more objective stance of Risk>Good) spoofs has said their Love is more important than risks (more subjective view of Good>Risk)

Is ether right or wrong, no in end there just our way of interpretating a fact of life


Kay Adolf. We should all be allowed to rape, pillage, steal, murder, and destroy all we come in contact with. Sounds like a plan. Maybe you should be the first victim if the world ever went in that direction... then I would wonder how you would feel....

First of all, your view is far closer to Adolf's than divine1's (not saying same at all, just that your views are closer,) and two he was not saying that we should all start murderering...etc, he was saying that world is basically what I put up above.

I mean you make point about Civilised society, The romans believed they were civilised, yet to modern standards, they were "SICK" and they believed it was ok to take over countries, same with my British past, we thought we had a right to take over other "Less Civilised Poeple" but in end society isn't set thing ether

I do see what you are sayin with the point, some things can be rejected as they have more nagetive forseerable effect on world Like murderer that is my view as well, however even then it comes down to what you consider nagetive harm, I seem to have far more accepting view on what can be ok than you, but like said niether are right

[killshot]

This is why we actually LIVE in civilization, because the social rejects are mostly kept apart from the normal people and the human race can expand and grow. Do you know where we would be if everyone thought like what you are insinuating? We would all be naked, frothing animals rolling in our own waste with only animal instincts to guide us. Humans were put on this earth with reason and mental capacity compared to other animals. It is what separates us from them and is why we are the top of the food chain now and always since the early humans. Because we have wit, cunning, and intellect as well as being social and able to reason. If we devolve by going all "free for all," we will all eventually cease to exist or be controlled by one group of people that has something that the masses of moronic degenerates want and then the whole process would eventually start all over again.

I seriously guffawed at this.


I will never understand the logic people who think like this use. This topic started out with the premise that incest, pedophilia, and bestiality can sometimes be accepted under certain circumstances. What these three things have in common is that some people take pleasure in them. None of these three things imply hurting another person or animal (In this case I am talking about the thought pedophilia, not the action of having sex with a child.) These things are not about violence or pain, they are more closely related to love.

However, you feel the need to associate these things with murder, rape, torture, and all other sorts of violence that have no place in this discussion. Do you see no difference between wanting to have sex with a relative and murder? Your argument is the embodiment of the slippery slope fallacy. Do you think if someone has sex with a sheep then he will immediately go out and rape someone? If someone has sexual fantasies about children do you think they are also murderers? Do you think that if everyone doesn't join in with your chant of "that's sick" or "that's wrong", civilization will implode upon itself, child fuckers will run rampant, people will never have sex outside the family, and young people will start using curse words (gasp!).

About this civilization you speak so highly of, is this the same civilization where South American immigrants are treated like scum by racist rednecks who think they are coming over here to steal jobs away from white Americans? Is this the same civilization who invaded Iraq killing thousands of innocent civilians while on a terrorist witch hunt? Is this the same civilization that hoards enough nuclear weapons to kill everyone on earth several thousand times over? I think you need to stop worrying about a few sexual deviants and start paying attention to these people you call "normal".

[Orga777]

However, you feel the need to associate these things with murder, rape, torture, and all other sorts of violence that have no place in this discussion. Do you see no difference between wanting to have sex with a relative and murder?

Yeah, abd? I wasn't replying directly to that. Just the view and stance people take that "right and wrong are all opinion." Which is where I came out with "so murder would be okay than since it won't be wrong in the murderers view." The same prinicples apply to everything, not just this discussion.

About this civilization you speak so highly of, is this the same civilization where South American immigrants are treated like scum by racist rednecks who think they are coming over here to steal jobs away from white Americans?

Actually it is American citizens in general, not just white American citizens. ;)
Oh, and last I checked, Mexico is part of North America. XP

And it isn't just "racist Rednecks" that say that. Most of the American public is in favor of stricter boarder control. Especially with Mexico practically a failing state and falling apart at the seams.

Is this the same civilization who invaded Iraq killing thousands of innocent civilians while on a terrorist witch hunt?

Right... a witch hunt... Kay, what ever you say man. I don't agree with going into Iraq either (should have finished with Afganistan first), but it wasn't a witch hunt. And sorry, the military didn't intentionally kill any civilians. Accidents and tragedies happen in war.

Is this the same civilization that hoards enough nuclear weapons to kill everyone on earth several thousand times over? I think you need to stop worrying about a few sexual deviants and start paying attention to these people you call "normal".

Yes.... where do you live now Mr. Killshot? Many more nations have enough Nukes to wipe out the world contless times, so I don't see your point what so ever. Also, nothings perfect. But some things shouldn't be done.

[killshot]

Yeah, abd? I wasn't replying directly to that. Just the view and stance people take that "right and wrong are all opinion." Which is where I came out with "so murder would be okay than since it won't be wrong in the murderers view." The same prinicples apply to everything, not just this discussion.

Right and wrong are based on opinion, which is the entire point of the thread. If you disagree, then explain why. The fact remains that you were trying to associate abnormal sexual behavior with murder and rape.

Actually it is American citizens in general, not just white American citizens.
Oh, and last I checked, Mexico is part of North America. XP

And it isn't just "racist Rednecks" that say that. Most of the American public is in favor of stricter boarder control. Especially with Mexico practically a failing state and falling apart at the seams.

Not all immigrants are from Mexico. I actually meant to say Central America, but you get the point.

Just because most Americans want something, doesn't make it morally acceptable. The reason I brought it up is because most Americans, are in favor of stricter border control and have a bigotry against immigrants.

Yes.... where do you live now Mr. Killshot? Many more nations have enough Nukes to wipe out the world contless times, so I don't see your point what so ever. Also, nothings perfect. But some things shouldn't be done.

You've completely missed the point. What I am saying is the people who run "civilization" are more morally reprehensible than these sexual deviants you are worried about.

[Orga777]

Right and wrong are based on opinion, which is the entire point of the thread. If you disagree, then explain why. The fact remains that you were trying to associate abnormal sexual behavior with murder and rape.

Again, I was pointing out that thinking "right and wrong are opinion" leads to murder no longer being "wrong" in someones opinion. Which is the whole point I was trying to make with my traiad earlier. We ALL have to do stuff we don't want to do, but ya do it anyway.

[killshot]

Again, I was pointing out that thinking "right and wrong are opinion" leads to murder no longer being "wrong" in someones opinion. Which is the whole point I was trying to make with my traiad earlier. We ALL have to do stuff we don't want to do, but ya do it anyway.

Then how should we think of right and wrong? Are you telling me they are not opinions, and are grounded in absolute truth? If so, where does this truth come from?

[Orga777]

Then how should we think of right and wrong? Are you telling me they are not opinions, and are grounded in absolute truth? If so, where does this truth come from?

I am not directly saying that. But living in Society, you follow societies laws. In society there is right and wrong. If you get rid of it, and all that I said earlier would occure. Which would not be a very good world to live in.

[Fat1Fared]

I am not directly saying that. But living in Society, you follow societies laws. In society there is right and wrong. If you get rid of it, and all that I said earlier would occure. Which would not be a very good world to live in.

Question

When you say society, are you saying world as one society, A single Country or on about a single cultural group?

As each one is society, and each one has different view on overall view of Right and Wrong

[Orga777]

Question

When you say society, are you saying world as one society, A single Country or on about a single cultural group?

As each one is society, and each one has different view on overall view of Right and Wrong

Well, depends where you live of course. But usually, Murder is Bad no matter where you go and I am pretty sure most places frown on incest and such too...

[Spoofs3]

Well like I said, if you want to be selfish and take that risk, I cannot stop you, but you can live with the results

But then with your logic, driving through town at 70miles an hour is ok, as that still only has small risk of killing/injuring someone



Spoofs this a case of taking a point and warping, please don't say I said more than I did as you do there is no point talking, as never going to be able to make a point, what I'm saying here is just because we did something in past, doesn't mean that we should continue doing it, we should do something is seems, to have good results for us without harming others (to forseeable level)

we did some good things and lots of bad things in past, and in another 1000 years, they will look at us with same view. And like I said me and Dark already gave the science behind why we cannot continue incest, however you clearly won't read that



Once again, stop putting things in other poeples posts, which are not there, I said that having sex with Animials has high risk, I didn't say it was only way to spread disease and I also said, as long as don't have sex with both human and Animial, then it is their risk alone, which is different

Ok, obviously you are confused, because you DID say all the things I am accusing you of.

1. Incest,
No, Driving a car at 70 MilesPH is different to incest, Why? Because driving really fast amazingly, is not near enough full proof,
While in incest, With contraception, ALL OF THE CONTRACEPTIONS (If ya want, you wcan also add in visectamy and tubes tied) It is nearly 100% full proof that a child will not be born, And the only reason they are born in other situations is that they did not use all of the contraceptions available (Which I suggested all along... Barely minimal chance)

you did say we shat in rivers ?_?
And my point was not misunderstood, It was that just because we gave something up, Does not mean that it SHOULD have been given up.

Also, I have read the science, I am actually trying to get into a collage course ABOUT genetics,Trust me I know more so on this than you probably do, BUT once again, It is highly unlikely a child will be born IF yout ake proper procaution, I mean 100% proper procaution, Don't get me wrong, i don't want a handicapped child into this world if there were other ways (Against abortion here) so caution must be taken, BUT you cannot stop love...

2. Beastiality:
I did NOT say that having sex with animals was the only way, I did NOT say to YOu it was the only way, Just listen, What I said, is that the other ways, happen ALOT more than sex with animals
And Sex with animals only extremily rarely causes diseases with humans, The only cases that have been recorded that humans actually cuaght diseases by animals are by having sex with Monkies (Which amazingly has a MUCH higher disease rate than any other animal)
Other animals, I have not heard of a single case of an STD being passed between them...
Don't put words into my mouth saying I put words into you r mouth again ?_?


Well, depends where you live of course. But usually, Murder is Bad no matter where you go and I am pretty sure most places frown on incest and such too...
(Not from you fared, Just making a point :P)

No, Because the point of most places frowning on incest was not REALLY fair, because Europe controlled the world many years ago, So of COURSE there are going to be laws forced in that Europe decided...
Britian did not incest, BAM all of its colonies (All 2/3rds of the world...) Have incest gone, Wheter they like it or not, And its gone forever because of it,
in fact many nations had incest going until it was banned later and many great empires aswell

[Fat1Fared]

Ok, obviously you are confused, because you DID say all the things I am accusing you of.

1. Incest,
No, Driving a car at 70 MilesPH is different to incest, Why? Because driving really fast amazingly, is not near enough full proof,
While in incest, With contraception, ALL OF THE CONTRACEPTIONS (If ya want, you wcan also add in visectamy and tubes tied) It is nearly 100% full proof that a child will not be born, And the only reason they are born in other situations is that they did not use all of the contraceptions available (Which I suggested all along... Barely minimal chance)

you did say we shat in rivers ?_?
And my point was not misunderstood, It was that just because we gave something up, Does not mean that it SHOULD have been given up.

Also, I have read the science, I am actually trying to get into a collage course ABOUT genetics,Trust me I know more so on this than you probably do, BUT once again, It is highly unlikely a child will be born IF yout ake proper procaution, I mean 100% proper procaution, Don't get me wrong, i don't want a handicapped child into this world if there were other ways (Against abortion here) so caution must be taken, BUT you cannot stop love...

2. Beastiality:
I did NOT say that having sex with animals was the only way, I did NOT say to YOu it was the only way, Just listen, What I said, is that the other ways, happen ALOT more than sex with animals
And Sex with animals only extremily rarely causes diseases with humans, The only cases that have been recorded that humans actually cuaght diseases by animals are by having sex with Monkies (Which amazingly has a MUCH higher disease rate than any other animal)
Other animals, I have not heard of a single case of an STD being passed between them...
Don't put words into my mouth saying I put words into you r mouth again ?_?


Well, I just ignore your arrogance, at you thinking you know anything about me or about this area and put the stats here for you, that is for condoms, which are most common form of


On average, condoms are effective at preventing pregnancy 85% of the time every year. If condoms are used perfectly, that is, properly and consistently every time, only two out of 100 women will become pregnant per year. However, with typical use, 15 out of 100 women will become pregnant each year. Additionally, it is possible for condoms to break during sex. Lubricants that are oil-based (i.e. Vaseline, massage oil and baby oil) are not suitable for use with condoms since they can weaken the latex as can yeast infection medications. To keep your condoms in top form, store them in a cool, dry place.

http://www.epigee.org/guide/condoms.html - 31k -

Here is site, if want to look at others, however that is still 15% chance and even if only 2% chance, are you really willing to take that risk, I mean only 1 in every 100 cars, which are reported speeding end in crash, so that means, that it even less than comdons are if perfectly used, but you don't condone speeding <ERRR>

[Spoofs3]

And I am not arrogant, And thats for condoms... Ever heard of probability?
Now ad in the Pill aswell, And spermicide, Possibly even a cap, Couple of other things,
That is 85% each, BUT You got to ad the probability on, So by the time you use ALL protection not just one (Which is how many people end up pregnant in the first place...) the probability is so high, Its not even worth counting... (And thats only worth for that, Also ad on the probability that bad genes will mix and its nearly impossible)

Thank you and good day dear sir

[Fat1Fared]

Actually spoofs that study includes poeple using more than one type, as it comes from British Health assicotation and it uses all their data, it is just on about the effectiveness of Condoms in general, as they are most common,

but like I said Spoofs, if you wish to have sex with your sister or mother, then do so, doesn't matter what I think, but if you take the risk and then find that the "it will never to me, agrument, doesn't always work," can you live with knowing what did, to a poor child before even born,

[HolyShadow]

So you're saying that a couple that gets vasectomies, tubes tied, wearing a condom while on the pill while the woman is in menopause has a 100% chance of getting pregnant and therefore shouldn't have sex?

[Spoofs3]

...
No fared, I don't wish to have sex with my sister or mother...
I just don't have a problem with OTHER people doing it, I am just defending the right to do it :P

[HeartRyou]

Do you really think there's no connection between shota/loli and child pornography?
According to National Police Agency statistics, 40% of the over 3,000 pornographic Internet sites based in Japan contained images of minors. In 1998, INTERPOL estimated that 80% of Internet sites with child pornography originate in Japan. (US Dept of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 1999, 25 February 2000)

Can you really say that, do YOU really KNOW that? Have you do it, to see if you lose your view on Reality? (Doesn't that mean we should follow those that want to band all Animie and Fantasy as they believe it has this effect)

And here are the effects of pornography on the human brain (http://www.obscenitycrimes.org/clineart.cfm).

Do You have kids, as if don't you cannot make that point

That's a personal matter. And yes, I could make that point, as people who don't take care of children can easily forget how impressionable they are and how dangerous the world is.

[Fat1Fared]

Spoofs, I pretty much accept most things, which why said, as long as don't have sex with both Animals and Humans, not against it, (though hard to tell Animals view on it) and why said, that looking at shoila, isn't what I see as wrong, as again doesn't harm anyone, but here we are going to me, even too far to me,

even with say, a comdon, and the pill...etc still got around 95% of getting and pregnant on average (and if just normal sample of everyone, still got 85%, but for arguments sake, we will use 95%) and then got 25% of the baby having genetic defect (I thought it was lower than that) and that means, that if do maths, to me if have 100 incest cases, then 5 get pregent, out of that 5, another 1 will have defect, that means we still have 1% chance of defects, which to me, for simple act of sex, which can be done with other poeple, and with fact that love, easily changes, I don't think it is worth it as it seems to me to be unfair on third party and selfish, however if you do it, fair enough, that is all I can say on matter

http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/tooby/classes/anth7/incest.htm - 8k -

Ryou

I was not about human Porn or human Child Porn, I was on about shota/loli (you know thing you bort up,) and one of my main points was that we need to differentiate between two, one is a cartoon, the other is picture of real poeple. I mean to use stats is all well and good, but they have to actually be about what we are on about we are on about. I mean your study didn't even bring up shota/loli?????(well unless I missed it) and so is a flawed stat for this area at best.

The only thing I can think you are saying is that because Japan has shota/loli, that is reason it has lot of child porn, well that is wonderful logic, but until we can actually have study which shows this, I think that is opinion, not fact and very loose opinion at that, I mean seems to badly mix up cause and effect. Hiltor said, that because Jewish poeple were rich, that was reason Germans were poor, seems to be a similar logic there, hmmmmm

Now, I personally, don't like Shota ether, however do I think that my personal feelings are justifiable enough reason, to tell others their wrong for doing it? In this case no, as I don't think it is actually harming anyone, whether I like it or not. I believe their is a section for it on this website!!!!!!!

As for second comment, I will take that as a no then.

PS Also just because you have kids, doesn't mean you know lots about world and instantly become more caring, careful person and vise-verser

Final point, it was overly protective parents who burnt down the house of a doctor, because the title of his job started with word Pedo.... and so when they were told, that a pedophile was living in their areas, some how they came to conclusion it was him!!!!!! I know this is extreme example, but sometimes, those who fear something, become worse than what they fear, because allow that fear to rule their judgment!!!!!

[HeartRyou]

The only thing I can think you are saying is that because Japan has shota/loli, that is reason it has lot of child porn, well that is wonderful logic, but until we can actually have study which shows this, I think that is opinion, not fact and very loose opinion at that, I mean seems to badly mix up cause and effect. Hiltor said, that because Jewish poeple were rich, that was reason Germans were poor, seems to be a similar logic there, hmmmmm

I wasn't arguing a cause and effect relationship, I was saying that there is in fact a connection between the two. No other country I know of has a mass market of animated child pornography. Japan has both a mass market for shota/loli and as the study showed, is home to 80% of online child pornography. I didn't label any definitive cause but I do believe that there is a connection. Mentioning Hitler's views of the Jewish people in this instance is wholly inappropriate as your analogy oversimplifies the situation in Germany at the time and Hitler's misguided philosophy.

In this case no, as I don't think it is actually harming anyone, whether I like it or not. I believe their is a section for it on this website!!!!!!!

Hence the article about the effects of pornographic images on the human brain. So yes, it is harming someone. And the presence of it on this website is why I brought it up in the first place.

PS Also just because you have kids, doesn't mean you know lots about world and instantly become more caring, careful person and vise-verser

That's your opinion.

Final point, it was overly protective parents who burnt down the house of a doctor, because the title of his job started with word Pedo.... and so when they were told, that a pedophile was living in their areas, some how they came to conclusion it was him!!!!!! I know this is extreme example, but sometimes, those who fear something, become worse than what they fear, because allow that fear to rule their judgment!!!!!

Please don't try to tell me that child pornography isn't a problem. There's nothing wrong with trying to protect your children. And if you're going to use that kind of anecdote you should specify more details about what happened.

[Fat1Fared]

I wasn't arguing a cause and effect relationship, I was saying that there is in fact a connection between the two. No other country I know of has a mass market of animated child pornography. Japan has both a mass market for shota/loli and as the study showed, is home to 80% of online child pornography. I didn't label any definitive cause but I do believe that there is a connection. Mentioning Hitler's views of the Jewish people in this instance is wholly inappropriate as your analogy oversimplifies the situation in Germany at the time and Hitler's misguided philosophy.


Exactly my point, you are saying that, because japan has high child porn and high shota, there must be a link. So following that logic, in countries where isn't any shota, there must be no child porn, well countries like Africa I think blow this theory out the water. I think maybe cultural believes and social breeding has much bigger effect than shota, I mean next you will be saying, all poeple who like shota, must like child porn!!!!

I mean, like I said and you chose to ignore, I believe there is shota section on this website, lets ask the opinion of poeple who look at that, if they find children arousing, just because find, cartoon picture arousing? (an that is if even find pictures arousing, there are many exotic art types/dealers around and they don't all known for sexual pleasure, some just find it to be good art) (they will know all this better than us,)

And this is point, I was making with Hitlor and Jews, no I didn't over simplify it, Hiltor did and so did you,

You-High Child Porn and High Shota must equal, Shota linking to Child Porn(you didn't even show if poeple who like the shota like the porn, just that japan has high number of both)

Hilter-Jewish Business Succuss and Failing German Ecomony must equal Jewish succuss causing the failing ecomony

The only difference here, is the sudject matter and the fact Hiltor knew he was making a false link between too things, so he could scapegoat Jewish poeple, you seem to actually believe your link.


Hence the article about the effects of pornographic images on the human brain. So yes, it is harming someone. And the presence of it on this website is why I brought it up in the first place.

But that was study into HUMAN PORN, not shota, which means you cannot use it, unless find study which shows SHOTA has this effect, you haven't actually bort any evidence to support your view on shota, you have bort evidence which shows porn can have a negative effect on poeple


That's your opinion.


One=Never said it wasn't
Two=If it is not true, then how come have child abuse with cases as extreme as Horst the Dog child, where two parents, basically left a dog to rise their child. And in lesser cases, where things, such parents, who let children as young as 4 wonder the streets, on own, up till 12 at night.


Please don't try to tell me that child pornography isn't a problem. There's nothing wrong with trying to protect your children. And if you're going to use that kind of anecdote you should specify more details about what happened.

This is another one of your wonderful, I have nothing to say, so I will say, you said something didn't moments.

First, I never said anywhere that Child Porn is good, I even said don't like Shota personally. What I actually said, was Shota and Child Porn are different , and though don't like SHOTA personally, I also DON"T see a problem with SHOTA, never said anything about child porn being good thing!!!!!

Secondly, what is there to say about this case, papers of small city in south of England, told local poeple that known pedophile had moved into area, in blind panic and anger, a mod formed and demanded that the pedophile was named, however local authority's refused them this info, and thus in mindless fear and rage, they began a witch hurt, which ended with an innocence mans house being burnt down, because had word pedo in his job title. The point here is not that pedophiles are not problem or in any way good, the point is, when start witch hurts.......etc you can become worse than thing you hate, so maybe it is better to take step back and think about your own actions, before judge people or start telling everyone their wrong, I mean not that I like using religious quotes, wasn't it your Christ who said "he without sin cast first stone!" maybe me being non-religious means mis understood it, if so, sorry! however seems to be something you personally are suppose to believe.

You hate poeple unfairly judging your religion, yet have you ever thought you too have be unfairly judging poeple. Now I in no way agree with pedophiles and think they should be locked away, however don't you think to call shota's sick and make them out to be almost same as pedophile is the same sort of unfair judgment you get, when poeple say you must be a religious nut, because you believe in god and compare you to say religious terrorists.

[HeartRyou]

Exactly my point, you are saying that, because japan has high child porn and high shota, there must be a link. So following that logic, in countries where isn't any shota, there must be no child porn, well countries like Africa I think blow this theory out the water. I think maybe cultural believes and social breeding has much bigger effect than shota, I mean next you will be saying, all poeple who like shota, must like child porn!!!!

I'm saying that there is a strong possibility that there is a connection. Child porn is everywhere, however, Japan specifically has those high statistics. Cultural beliefs and social breeding? Are you saying that Japan has those high statistics because of the country's cultural beliefs?

I mean, like I said and you chose to ignore, I believe there is shota section on this website, lets ask the opinion of poeple who look at that, if they find children arousing, just because find, cartoon picture arousing? (an that is if even find pictures arousing, there are many exotic art types/dealers around and they don't all known for sexual pleasure, some just find it to be good art) (they will know all this better than us,)

Sexual acts between children do not make good art. And if someone finds a picture of a naked woman arousing, then it is safe to believe that that person finds naked women arousing.

And this is point, I was making with Hitlor and Jews, no I didn't over simplify it, Hiltor did and so did you,

You-High Child Porn and High Shota must equal, Shota linking to Child Porn

Hilter-Jewish Business Succuss and Failing German Ecomony must equal Jewish succuss causing the failing ecomony

The only difference here, is the sudject matter and the fact Hiltor knew he was making a false link between too things, so he could scapegoat Jewish poeple, you seem to actually believe your link.

I don't appreciate being compared to Hitler. I didn't say they were equal, I said there was a connection. And if you read Mein Kampf you will know that Hitler blamed more than just the Jews. And using Hitler in a comparison so thoughtlessly is disrespectful to those who lost their lives in WWII.

But that was study into HUMAN PORN, not shota, which means you cannot use it, unless find study which shows SHOTA has this effect, you haven't actually bort any evidence to support your view on shota, you have bort evidence which shows porn can have a negative effect on poeple

And shota is pornography. And I assure you the Japanese won't be funding any such study as it would cut into profits if a link was found.

One=Never said it wasn't
Two=If it is not true, then how come have child abuse with cases as extreme as Horst the Dog child, where two parents, basically left a dog to rise their child. And in lesser cases, where things, such parents, who let children as young as 4 wonder the streets, on own, up till 12 at night.
This is another one of your wonderful, I have nothing to say, so I will say, you said something didn't moments.

I didn't say all parents are fantastic people, I said once you become a parent you become more aware of the dangers to children. Some parents choose to ignore these dangers because they don't care. However, many self-centered people become more aware of the world and its dangers once they have an innocent, bright-eyed child to take care of.

Secondly, what is there to say, papers of small city in south of England, told local poeple that known pedophile had moved into area, in blind panic and angry, a mod formed and demanded to that the pedophile was named, however local authority refused this info, and mindless fear and rage, they began a witch hurt, which ended with an innocence mans house being burnt down, because had word pedo in his job title. The point here is not that pedophiles are not problem or in any way good, the point is, when start witch hurts.......etc you can become worse than thing you hate, so maybe it is better to take step back and think about your own actions, before judge people, I mean not that I like using religious quotes, wasn't it your Christ who said he without sin cast first stone

Then that had nothing to do with a witch hunt, it was the result of a misunderstanding and a lack of education. If the residents of the town had had better literacy than it wouldn't have happened. It's why in the US we have the online sex offender registry, so we know when registered sex offenders are living in our area, so that we can be more careful.

You hate poeple unfairly judging your religion, yet have you ever thought you too have be unfairly judging poeple. Now I in no way agree with pedophiles and think they should be locked away, however don't you think to call shota's sick and make them out to be almost same as pedophile is the same sort of unfair judgment you get, when poeple say you must be a religious nut, because you believe in god and compare you to say religious terrorists

I never said I hated anyone or anything, and don't recall making any attacks on people who look at shota, I was talking about the shota itself. And besides the animated aspect, I haven't heard any good argument that's convinced me that it's any different than child pornography.

And if you insist on using WWII metaphors, think of it this way. Part of the reason the nazi movement gained so much ground and the extermination camps operated for as long as they did was because people in Europe and the US did not want to believe that such atrocities were really taking place. The extermination camps were dismissed as mere rumors or exaggerations. So ignoring evils in the world is just as bad as going on a witch hunt.

And I've never been called a religious terrorist, thank you.

[maisetofan]

again what has the whole hitler thing got to do with this discussion? other than the fact hew as the son of his uncle who married his mother EWWWW

[HolyShadow]

I'm saying that there is a strong possibility that there is a connection. Child porn is everywhere, however, Japan specifically has those high statistics. Cultural beliefs and social breeding? Are you saying that Japan has those high statistics because of the country's cultural beliefs?

You have absolutely no proof of this. Stop pretending that you do, please. It's an opinion and nothing more.


Sexual acts between children do not make good art. And if someone finds a picture of a naked woman arousing, then it is safe to believe that that person finds naked women arousing.

I enjoy lolicon and occasionally shotacon, as long as it's non-yaoi. I absolutely hate children. Are you going to call me a pedophile and child rapist? Because I find that offensive. After all, I prefer hentai to real women sexually. This makes me not a pedophile, but rather a fetishist of hentai.

I don't appreciate being compared to Hitler. I didn't say they were equal, I said there was a connection. And if you read Mein Kampf you will know that Hitler blamed more than just the Jews. And using Hitler in a comparison so thoughtlessly is disrespectful to those who lost their lives in WWII.

Listen up... Fared has the right to say anything he wants here that doesn't break the rules. Stop being so judgmental and face facts. You're doing the same thing japanese politicians do in blaming pornography for real problems. It's a scapegoat just like illegal immigrants (mexicans, specifically...) are in America. There has been no conclusive proof ANYWHERE that shows that video games make a person more violent, that television truly makes you dumber, or that lolicon and shotacon make you into a child rapist. You're saying that there's a strong possibility that lolicon and shotacon make you a pedophile. Once again, no proof. There have been countless attempts to skew research to reflect this. All have failed.

And shota is pornography. And I assure you the Japanese won't be funding any such study as it would cut into profits if a link was found.

Ecchi isn't pornography and neither are fanfictions, unless they're 18+. If you wanna prove otherwise, then I say let's throw out all anime and television shows that have any romance at all, no matter how pure, between 2 people who are even slightly under 18, because it's pornography. Hand-holding, too! The savages...

Shotacon is pornography if genitilia are shown in an arousing manner. For lolicon, it has to be the same for obvious areas. However, for real child pornography, it's not illegal for a parent to own a picture of their infant in diapers, is it? Or are you going to call them a pedophile? Gonna arrest everyone who has a baby picture? I didn't think so. Unless these things show the child having sex, it's not porn. At that point, it opens up a wild loophole.

I didn't say all parents are fantastic people, I said once you become a parent you become more aware of the dangers to children. Some parents choose to ignore these dangers because they don't care. However, many self-centered people become more aware of the world and its dangers once they have an innocent, bright-eyed child to take care of.

Not always. Hell, most parents at this point see their children as liabilities, sources of income, or both. I can name no less than 15 personal examples of this if asked.

Then that had nothing to do with a witch hunt, it was the result of a misunderstanding and a lack of education. If the residents of the town had had better literacy than it wouldn't have happened. It's why in the US we have the online sex offender registry, so we know when registered sex offenders are living in our area, so that we can be more careful.

Or so that a group of fanatics know exactly who to hunt down and kill violently. Based on what you're saying, you wanted the pedophile to die. Judging from Fared's example, the pedophile served his time in prison. Any further action by the citizens is illegal. If you're going to kill pedophiles, then you should kill blacks, jews, and the mentally challenged in your quest for a perfect world, fuhrer.

I never said I hated anyone or anything, and don't recall making any attacks on people who look at shota, I was talking about the shota itself. And besides the animated aspect, I haven't heard any good argument that's convinced me that it's any different than child pornography.

They're pixels. Just like everything on your computer. *Looks at slifer* See, I don't see a dragon. I see a red-haired babe. Just look past the picture for a few hours. You'll see it. She's topless.

Enough imagination and anything can be arousing, and therefore sexual, and therefore porn.

And if you insist on using WWII metaphors, think of it this way. Part of the reason the nazi movement gained so much ground and the extermination camps operated for as long as they did was because people in Europe and the US did not want to believe that such atrocities were really taking place. The extermination camps were dismissed as mere rumors or exaggerations. So ignoring evils in the world is just as bad as going on a witch hunt.

Yes, and instantly claiming everything as evil and killing them is what Adolf's men did. It's also what you're (supporting) doing.

And I've never been called a religious terrorist, thank you.
You hate pedophiles. Pedophiles are humans and should be treated as such. Being a pedophile isn't a crime. Just morally questionable. Sleeping with children is.

You hate gays. Gays are humans and should be treated as such. Being gay isn't a sin. Just morally questionable to certain people. Gay sex is.

See the comparison?

[HeartRyou]

You have absolutely no proof of this. Stop pretending that you do, please. It's an opinion and nothing more.

I never said it was. I just believe that those statistics support my opinion. I understand that other can argue otherwise.

You're saying that there's a strong possibility that lolicon and shotacon make you a pedophile. Once again, no proof. There have been countless attempts to skew research to reflect this. All have failed.

I'm saying that pedophiles enjoy shota/loli, not that enjoying it makes you a pedophile. Also, there's no proof to the contrary.

Ecchi isn't pornography and neither are fanfictions, unless they're 18+. If you wanna prove otherwise, then I say let's throw out all anime and television shows that have any romance at all, no matter how pure, between 2 people who are even slightly under 18, because it's pornography. Hand-holding, too! The savages...

I'm not talking about hand-holding, I'm talking about sexual acts. The impression I got from wikipedia is that shota refers to sexual situations, I'm sorry if I got the wrong impression.

Shotacon is pornography if genitilia are shown in an arousing manner. For lolicon, it has to be the same for obvious areas. However, for real child pornography, it's not illegal for a parent to own a picture of their infant in diapers, is it? Or are you going to call them a pedophile? Gonna arrest everyone who has a baby picture? I didn't think so. Unless these things show the child having sex, it's not porn. At that point, it opens up a wild loophole.

Again, my problem is not with nudity. But the only shota I have been exposed to have been the kind depicting sexual acts.

Hell, most parents at this point see their children as liabilities, sources of income, or both. I can name no less than 15 personal examples of this if asked.

Most parents? Then I can name 15 personal examples to the contrary.

Or so that a group of fanatics know exactly who to hunt down and kill violently. Based on what you're saying, you wanted the pedophile to die. Judging from Fared's example, the pedophile served his time in prison. Any further action by the citizens is illegal. If you're going to kill pedophiles, then you should kill blacks, jews, and the mentally challenged in your quest for a perfect world, fuhrer.

When did I say I wanted the pedophile to die? I wasn't commenting on the pedophile, I was referring to the fact that the random guy got his house burned down by accident.

You hate pedophiles. Pedophiles are humans and should be treated as such. Being a pedophile isn't a crime. Just morally questionable. Sleeping with children is.

You hate gays. Gays are humans and should be treated as such. Being gay isn't a sin. Just morally questionable to certain people. Gay sex is.

See the comparison?

And when did homosexuality figure into this?

[HolyShadow]

I never said it was. I just believe that those statistics support my opinion. I understand that other can argue otherwise.

I could come up with one thousand pictures of loli. Now if I show these pictures to you all at once over the course of a few hours, would you turn into a pedophile?


I'm saying that pedophiles enjoy shota/loli, not that enjoying it makes you a pedophile. Also, there's no proof to the contrary.

Not all pedophiles enjoy shota/loli. I'm sure most of them enjoy real children much, much more. Likewise, not all of those who enjoy shota/loli are pedophiles. I'm one such example.

I'm not talking about hand-holding, I'm talking about sexual acts. The impression I got from wikipedia is that shota refers to sexual situations, I'm sorry if I got the wrong impression.

In some corners, a simple kiss is seen as a sexual act as taking off a mask is seen as indecent exposure.


Most parents? Then I can name 15 personal examples to the contrary.

It must be fun living in a fantasy world where everything is bright and happy.

When did I say I wanted the pedophile to die? I wasn't commenting on the pedophile, I was referring to the fact that the random guy got his house burned down by accident.

You said, my friend, that the reason they burnt the wrong house down is because they were dumb, basically. So if they were smart, they would've found the real pedo and killed him. This hints strongly that you want the pedophile dead.

And when did homosexuality figure into this?
Right from the start, desupuff. Check the first posts.

The situation of hating pedophiles is very similar to hating gays. You can't 'make' a pedophile. One must be born that way. Likewise, you can't 'make' a gay. They have to be born that way. (I'm sure a certain Jackster will agree with that)

And why should we give gays rights if we can't give pedophiles rights? It's prejudice to dislike someone because of their fetishes unless their fetishes lead to rape. If a pedophile doesn't contribute to a child's position in life negatively, then don't speak down on them and pull statistics out of your ass to support your own personal hatred.

[HeartRyou]

In some corners, a simple kiss is seen as a sexual act as taking off a mask is seen as indecent exposure.

Be more specific.

It must be fun living in a fantasy world where everything is bright and happy.

Why? Because I know people who don't have crap parents?


You said, my friend, that the reason they burnt the wrong house down is because they were dumb, basically. So if they were smart, they would've found the real pedo and killed him. This hints strongly that you want the pedophile dead.

Fared said himself they burnt down the wrong house because they confused pedophile with pediatrician (or some other such similar word). If they were more literate they wouldn't have confused the two words and burnt the poor guy's house down. The rest is something you're coming up with on your own.

Right from the start, desupuff. Check the first posts.

This was my first post:
Not sure how on topic this is, but how come some people disassociate shatacon and lolicon from pedophilia? Not saying people who like shota are all bad people but kiddy porn is kiddy porn, why is it less wrong if it's animated/drawn? Same with incest.

It was a question and I wanted an answer. I don't see anything hateful in it.

The situation of hating pedophiles is very similar to hating gays. You can't 'make' a pedophile. One must be born that way. Likewise, you can't 'make' a gay. They have to be born that way. (I'm sure a certain Jackster will agree with that)

And why should we give gays rights if we can't give pedophiles rights? It's prejudice to dislike someone because of their fetishes unless their fetishes lead to rape. If a pedophile doesn't contribute to a child's position in life negatively, then don't speak down on them and pull statistics out of your ass to support your own personal hatred.

You're the bigot if you find it appropriate to compare homosexuals to pedophiles.

As for 'making' a pedophile, many pedophiles do what they do because they themselves were molested as children.

[Fat1Fared]

I'm saying that there is a strong possibility that there is a connection. Child porn is everywhere, however, Japan specifically has those high statistics. Cultural beliefs and social breeding? Are you saying that Japan has those high statistics because of the country's cultural beliefs?


Well holy, answered this one nicely, so leave it there


Sexual acts between children do not make good art. And if someone finds a picture of a naked woman arousing, then it is safe to believe that that person finds naked women arousing.


Again, holy answered it, better than I can, as he likes Shota, so understands it better than ether of us


I don't appreciate being compared to Hitler. I didn't say they were equal, I said there was a connection. And if you read Mein Kampf you will know that Hitler blamed more than just the Jews. And using Hitler in a comparison so thoughtlessly is disrespectful to those who lost their lives in WWII.



And if you insist on using WWII metaphors, think of it this way. Part of the reason the nazi movement gained so much ground and the extermination camps operated for as long as they did was because people in Europe and the US did not want to believe that such atrocities were really taking place. The extermination camps were dismissed as mere rumors or exaggerations. So ignoring evils in the world is just as bad as going on a witch hunt.


Now put this too, together, because want to explain them:-

1=I'm glad you don't like being compared to Hiltor, as I would worry about anyone who want to be like him, and that is reason I used him, to make a point, you are getting two things with loose links at best, most likely no link at all and then saying must be linked, as happen in same place!!!!! Which is something Hitlor did

2=I have read Mein Kampf, I wouldn't have been able to get an A in history if didn't, and yes, he did blame more than Jews in that book, he also told me his fav boxer in it, what is your point. I was merely making an example of where someone has said, merely because two things happen in same area, must be linked to each others happening, because it helped their point.

3=Maybe using Hiltor to prove a point, is disrespectful, however it is far disrespectful to not look at what happened and try to learn from our past mistakes, so such things never happen again. What I did to you, my History Teacher did to me, when studying an area, I had very judgment view, She then showed how my view, although lesser, mirrored mistakes Hitlor made, at first like you, I was indigent, however after I stepped back, I realised what she was trying to show me, and learn more from that moment, than any other in my life. Which was point, I was making below, it is easy to judge (I mean, I still do it, look at way, I said incest was wrong) but lest now trying to understand it from both sides. All to often, we try to sweep the lessons of history under carpet, as it is too painful, to face them head on

4=The second point, you made is wrong, the reason they happened is because, Britain and other European Countries, where still getting over WW1 and coudln't afford another war, so had to delay it by 5 years or so, in order to rearm, this is why even though on the outside Chamberlein, was appeasing Hitlor, in truth he was one who started Rearming Britain and making deals with USA for Ecomonic Might to fight them, sadly for Chambelein, as he make the logical but harsh sariface, he has gone down in history, as worlds biggest fool, but if he didn't do it, we could be living in very different world


And shota is pornography. And I assure you the Japanese won't be funding any such study as it would cut into profits if a link was found.


Well under techinal sense it isn't, however I could see, as you could class "some" of it as porn, but at same time, until you find a link, this all your personal feeling, nothing more


I didn't say all parents are fantastic people, I said once you become a parent you become more aware of the dangers to children. Some parents choose to ignore these dangers because they don't care. However, many self-centered people become more aware of the world and its dangers once they have an innocent, bright-eyed child to take care of.


Well, here is your interpretation of some actions, and nothing really to debate, you have your belief, I have mine, ether can be proved, so lets move on,


Then that had nothing to do with a witch hunt, it was the result of a misunderstanding and a lack of education. If the residents of the town had had better literacy than it wouldn't have happened. It's why in the US we have the online sex offender registry, so we know when registered sex offenders are living in our area, so that we can be more careful.


So, burning a mans house down, because think he is pedophile, isn't what call witch hunt, what is then?

Also, to once again disprove one of your, very unfounded views, I checked the city in question, had a normal Pass-Rate at GCSE and above normal Pass rate at A-Level and trust me A-Levels are far from easy to pass (if these poeple cannot read, how hell can pass exams,) I'm not dumb, but even I limbed across that finish line

So think we can say these are not drunk, no nothing rednecks, these are normal everyone day educated poeple, allowing fear, anger and panic to rule their actions, with very bad results, and this has happened throughout history, with far worse cases than this one.

Also to clear up Holy's point for you, what he is saying is that in your post, your seeming to say, that only mistake they made was got wrong guy, which if it is what you meant, means you would think they were right to do what did, if actually got right guy!!!!!!!!!!!!


I never said I hated anyone or anything, and don't recall making any attacks on people who look at shota, I was talking about the shota itself. And besides the animated aspect, I haven't heard any good argument that's convinced me that it's any different than child pornography.


I never said this ether, please stop adding things to my posts, I said you were being judgmental on a group without any clear evidence to back up your reasons why and you seem to be saying that because some poeple like Shota, they are almost same as Pedophiles and in later, post you actually go onto say this.


And I've never been called a religious terrorist, thank you.

I'm sure, you have not, but I'm also sure if someone said all religious poeple are terrorists, you be first to defend yourself, as you did in homosexual thread, when you defended what you saw as unjust criticism of your religion, and that is point I'm making here, you want poeple to stop judging/sterotpying your religion, but then judge/sterotypre another group in same way

[HolyShadow]

Be more specific.

Middle east.

Why? Because I know people who don't have crap parents?Most parents are crap. You live in a world that (almost) doesn't exist.


Fared said himself they burnt down the wrong house because they confused pedophile with pediatrician (or some other such similar word). If they were more literate they wouldn't have confused the two words and burnt the poor guy's house down. The rest is something you're coming up with on your own.See Fared's post.

This was my first post:
Not sure how on topic this is, but how come some people disassociate shatacon and lolicon from pedophilia? Not saying people who like shota are all bad people but kiddy porn is kiddy porn, why is it less wrong if it's animated/drawn? Same with incest.

It was a question and I wanted an answer. I don't see anything hateful in it.No one is being hurt.

You're the bigot if you find it appropriate to compare homosexuals to pedophiles.I fail to see your logic. The situation is very much the same in the way that I explained it. Instead of calling me bigoted, actually try to disprove it. Unless you agree with me?

As for 'making' a pedophile, many pedophiles do what they do because they themselves were molested as children.Prove it.

[HeartRyou]

Well under techinal sense it isn't, however I could see, as you could class "some" of it as porn, but at same time, until you find a link, this all your personal feeling, nothing more

It's that "some" that's worrisome.

Also, to once again disprove one of your, very unfounded views, I checked the city in question, had a normal Pass-Rate at GCSE and above normal Pass rate at A-Level and trust me A-Levels are far from easy to pass (if these poeple cannot read, how hell can pass exams,) I'm not dumb, but even I limbed across that finish line

Also to clear up Holy's point for you, what he is saying is that in your post, your seeming to say, that only mistake they made was got wrong guy, which if it is what you meant, means you would think they were right to do what did, if actually got right guy!!!!!!!!!!!!

It wasn't unfounded. It was an easy mistake to make, to believe that they did what they did because they were confused between the two words. Parents have a right to know who in their neighborhood is a convicted pedophile, what happened occurred because authorities refused to let them know.


I never said this ether, please stop adding things to my posts, I said you were being judgmental on a group without any clear evidence to back up your reasons why and you seem to be saying that because some poeple like Shota, they are almost same as Pedophiles and in later, post you actually go onto say this.

I didn't add anything to your posts and that comment had nothing to do with you. And I gave you my reasons, because I believe there to be a connection between animated child pornography and other types of child pornography.

I'm sure, you have not, but I'm also sure if someone said all religious poeple are terrorists, you be first to defend yourself, as you did in homosexual thread, when you defended what you saw as unjust criticism of your religion, and that is point I'm making here, you want poeple to stop judging/sterotpying your religion, but then judge/sterotypre another group in same way

I do have a preconceived notion, that's why I brought up the topic. But you were the only one to reply to it.

[darkarcher]

As for 'making' a pedophile, many pedophiles do what they do because they themselves were molested as children.

I've heard the same thing said about homosexuals.

[HeartRyou]

Middle east.

Just because they're a bit stricter on what's considered improper doesn't mean they equate taking off a "mask" with sexual relations.

Most parents are crap. You live in a world that (almost) doesn't exist.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I fail to see your logic. The situation is very much the same in the way that I explained it. Instead of calling me bigoted, actually try to disprove it. Unless you agree with me?

When homosexuals act on their urges, they don't hurt anyone. When pedophiles do, they cause harm.

Prove it.
http://www.registeredoffenderslist.org/what-is-pedophilia.htm

[HolyShadow]

Just because they're a bit stricter on what's considered improper doesn't mean they equate taking off a "mask" with sexual relations.

No, just indecent exposure. I couldn't remember the thing they hide their faces with...

When homosexuals act on their urges, they don't hurt anyone. When pedophiles do, they cause harm.

A homosexual acted on their urges with me, and I was mentally scarred due to that event and events that stemmed from it. Homosexuality has hurt me more than any pedophile has.

http://www.registeredoffenderslist.org/what-is-pedophilia.htm (http://www.registeredoffenderslist.org/what-is-pedophilia.htm)

...It says once that boys that are molested become pedophiles. Yet it says over and over that there is a strong correlation between genetic disorders and pedophilia. Besides that, it uses homosexual pedophilia as an example. In this case, homosexuality probably hurt them more than the pedophilia. After all, if a beautiful 18 year old with double d's and long, blonde hair took their virginity, I guarantee they wouldn't be emotionally traumatized. They'd be happy as fuck.

[HeartRyou]

A homosexual acted on their urges with me, and I was mentally scarred due to that event and events that stemmed from it. Homosexuality has hurt me more than any pedophile has.

Then you were traumatized because you were sexually assaulted, not because the other person was a homosexual.

...It says once that boys that are molested become pedophiles. Yet it says over and over that there is a strong correlation between genetic disorders and pedophilia. Besides that, it uses homosexual pedophilia as an example. In this case, homosexuality probably hurt them more than the pedophilia. After all, if a beautiful 18 year old with double d's and long, blonde hair took their virginity, I guarantee they wouldn't be emotionally traumatized. They'd be happy as fuck.

Not all molested boys become child molesters (all victims have their own coping mechanisms) but molestation does increase the probability of that behavior repeating. And a child is traumatized by any unwarranted sexual contact, regardless if it's from a male or female.

Replace "their" and "them" with "me" and say what you really mean. Just because you wouldn't mind being molested by some random babe doesn't mean it won't be traumatizing to a child.

[HolyShadow]

Then you were traumatized because you were sexually assaulted, not because the other person was a homosexual.

I wasn't sexually assaulted. I was traumatized because of the events that followed, which stemmed from the homosexual. Didn't you listen?

Not all molested boys become child molesters (all victims have their own coping mechanisms) but molestation does increase the probability of that behavior repeating. And a child is traumatized by any unwarranted sexual contact, regardless if it's from a male or female.

Replace "their" and "them" with "me" and say what you really mean. Just because you wouldn't mind being molested by some random babe doesn't mean it won't be traumatizing to a child.
I guarantee that my 11 year old cousin who was raped by his male teacher would've enjoyed the busty blonde chick a LOT more. Or are you going to say that a healthy heterosexual child would rather fuck a grown man than a busty blonde woman?

[HeartRyou]

I wasn't sexually assaulted. I was traumatized because of the events that followed, which stemmed from the homosexual. Didn't you listen?

Don't be vague and say what you mean.

I guarantee that my 11 year old cousin who was raped by his male teacher would've enjoyed the busty blonde chick a LOT more. Or are you going to say that a healthy heterosexual child would rather fuck a grown man than a busty blonde woman?

Healthy heterosexual child? What the hell are you driving at? What about a healthy homosexual child?

A child shouldn't be having sexual relations with either. There is no "enjoyment" on the part of the child. Instead of thinking it would have been "better" if it had been a woman, you should be wishing it had never happened at all.

[HolyShadow]

Healthy heterosexual child? What the hell are you driving at? What about a healthy homosexual child?

A child shouldn't be having sexual relations with either. There is no "enjoyment" on the part of the child. Instead of thinking it would have been "better" if it had been a woman, you should be wishing it had never happened at all.
I caught him watching porn before and he currently has a girlfriend. He's heterosexual. No doubt.

I'm completely sure he would've enjoyed the busty chick. Want me to ask him?

[maisetofan]

holy how did you get to have some scribble under your avatar? are you a sub mod or something?

[HeartRyou]

I caught him watching porn before and he currently has a girlfriend. He's heterosexual. No doubt.

I'm completely sure he would've enjoyed the busty chick. Want me to ask him?

If he was already starting puberty then it wasn't pedophilia, it was hebephilia.

And it would have been just as damaging to a healthy homosexual child.

[HolyShadow]

If he was already starting puberty then it wasn't pedophilia, it was hebephilia.

And it would have been just as damaging to a healthy homosexual child.
What, children can't have sexual interests? Some 8 year olds have girlfriends.

They're interested in her because of her gender. I don't think they think of sex yet, but they are attracted to the other sex.

[HeartRyou]

What, children can't have sexual interests? Some 8 year olds have girlfriends.

They're interested in her because of her gender. I don't think they think of sex yet, but they are attracted to the other sex.

Can you rephrase that for me? I'm not trying to be cute or anything, I'm just not entirely clear on what you're saying.

[maisetofan]

i used to babysit a four year old from canada and he always wanted SEX, he knew what it was and he would ask for it and want to look at womens breasts all the time, whenever a commercial came on he would ask if they girls would show their Squishy boobs I KNOW!!!

He used to take all his clothes off and say he wanted some sex

[maisetofan]

LOLOLOL

really? thats kinda scary?
is he four years old?

[maisetofan]

you have not seen your little brother?

[HeartRyou]

i used to babysit a four year old from canada and he always wanted SEX, he knew what it was and he would ask for it and want to look at womens breasts all the time, whenever a commercial came on he would ask if they girls would show their Squishy boobs I KNOW!!!

He used to take all his clothes off and say he wanted some sex

Some young boys lash out in weird ways. Doesn't mean he had the same capacity to understand sex as an adult or someone who had already gone through puberty.

[HolyShadow]

Some young boys lash out in weird ways. Doesn't mean he had the same capacity to understand sex as an adult or someone who had already gone through puberty.
If we came up with a thousand examples, you would still use that defense. I now have proof that support my thought, it seems.

[HeartRyou]

If we came up with a thousand examples, you would still use that defense. I now have proof that support my thought, it seems.

What defense? Defense of what? That children that haven't gone through puberty don't have the mental capacity to consent to sex?

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

*sits down and begins to listen, thinking of what to say*

[HolyShadow]

What defense? Defense of what? That children that haven't gone through puberty don't have the mental capacity to consent to sex?
It depends. Some (rare) people end up growing when they're 16 or older. In all probability, they learned about sex and what it means when they were 12. Some learn even younger. Can you honestly say that all of them can't understand at that point?

I'm not saying someone older should be with someone that young, but if they're having sex with others their own age, then no one can be taking advantage of them. It might maybe hurt them eventually to know that their virginity was wasted, but I can't see it hurting them other than that.

[HeartRyou]

I'm not saying someone older should be with someone that young, but if they're having sex with others their own age, then no one can be taking advantage of them. It might maybe hurt them eventually to know that their virginity was wasted, but I can't see it hurting them other than that.

There's a difference between knowing what sex is clinically and understanding the emotional consequences of their actions. Before puberty, children do have some level of awareness of sexual pleasure (mild masturbation), but they're not equipped to have intimate relations with another person, as in sexual or oral intercourse, because their bodies just aren't ready. Some children will experiment at an early age, which is fine, because it's the parents' responsibility to teach their children these things before they go out on an expedition on their own. However, if an adult has pictures or video of such activities, then that's not okay as it means the adult is deriving pleasure from watching a child perform a sexual act.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

when I was 3, I thought I WAS a boy, and at 8, when I finally accepted the fact that I was a girl, I thought boys were icky.

[HolyShadow]

There's a difference between knowing what sex is clinically and understanding the emotional consequences of their actions. Before puberty, children do have some level of awareness of sexual pleasure (mild masturbation), but they're not equipped to have intimate relations with another person, as in sexual or oral intercourse, because their bodies just aren't ready. Some children will experiment at an early age, which is fine, because it's the parents' responsibility to teach their children these things before they go out on an expedition on their own. However, if an adult has pictures or video of such activities, then that's not okay as it means the adult is deriving pleasure from watching a child perform a sexual act.
And therefore, I must pose a question to you:

How exactly can a picture consent to sex?

[HeartRyou]

when I was 3, I thought I WAS a boy, and at 8, when I finally accepted the fact that I was a girl, I thought boys were icky.

That's because children don't realize their gender is immutable until about age 6 or 7. Until then they think they can choose to be like mom or dad. :)

The adult is having sex with the picture of the child. The child(ren) is/are being victimized and cannot consent to sex with an adult, and because he is masturbating to the image of the children having sex, it is in fact like having sex with either or both of them. When a man masturbates to a picture of a naked woman, she has been paid to appear in the picture because she made the personal choice and knows what purposes the picture will be used for.

[HolyShadow]

The adult is having sex with the picture of the child. The child(ren) is/are being victimized and cannot consent to sex with an adult, and because he is masturbating to the image of the children having sex, it is in fact like having sex with either or both of them. When a man masturbates to a picture of a naked woman, she has been paid to appear in the picture because she made the personal choice and knows what purposes the picture will be used for.

Ah, so the children are being victimized?

See, that brings me back to my point. Shota/Loli stuff is perfectly fine because the owners knew very well what would happen if they came out with famous characters. Hell, some of them still do adult stuff with their characters to make a little extra money. Because the characters are fictional, they can be drawn to be consenting. That's what's special about art. You can twist it to support anything you want.

[HeartRyou]

Ah, so the children are being victimized?

See, that brings me back to my point. Shota/Loli stuff is perfectly fine because the owners knew very well what would happen if they came out with famous characters. Hell, some of them still do adult stuff with their characters to make a little extra money. Because the characters are fictional, they can be drawn to be consenting. That's what's special about art. You can twist it to support anything you want.

Can you clarify that for me? By owners you mean the animators?

[HolyShadow]

Can you clarify that for me? By owners you mean the animators?
Manga artists and such. The copyright owners.

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

*nods*

[HeartRyou]

Manga artists and such. The copyright owners.

Then if homosexuality is a sin, is homosexual pornography or yaoi okay?

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

LOLers.

[HolyShadow]

Then if homosexuality is a sin, is homosexual pornography or yaoi okay?
Did I ever say it was wrong?

The reason it's not seen on cable or satellite very often (Assuming man/man) is because it's not very marketable. The female mind isn't very homophobic, but mostly, if a heterosexual man sees gay porn in the middle of a movie, they'll instantly change the channel or never bother watching the station again. If a girl sees girl/girl, she shrugs and either keeps watching or switches stations slightly disgusted.

This is why I love women. They have such a cool head. Unless you're saying that they're all homophobic?

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

LOLers; Im a girl, and I say it's kinda true; I enjoy both yaoi and yuri, if that isnt too weird

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

That's because children don't realize their gender is immutable until about age 6 or 7. Until then they think they can choose to be like mom or dad. :)


At the time, I remember thinking I didn't want to be like either one of those people.

I still think boys are disgusting, but MEN are an entirely different matter.

[Turtlicious]

Holy the reason pdeophiles and homosexuals arent the same is because pedobears like CHILDREN!!!! they want something that doesnt understand and it has a deep psychological problem with control


Homosexuals just like the same sex the dont get off on 5 year olds the get off on their own genitalia its different and you know what what you said was biggoted

[HeartRyou]

Holy the reason pdeophiles and homosexuals arent the same is because pedobears like CHILDREN!!!! they want something that doesnt understand and it has a deep psychological problem with control


Homosexuals just like the same sex the dont get off on 5 year olds the get off on their own genitalia its different and you know what what you said was biggoted

You go T!

HS, I was talking about pornography, not a sex scene in a movie.

[HolyShadow]

Holy the reason pdeophiles and homosexuals arent the same is because pedobears like CHILDREN!!!! they want something that doesnt understand and it has a deep psychological problem with control


Homosexuals just like the same sex the dont get off on 5 year olds the get off on their own genitalia its different and you know what what you said was biggoted
Bigoted? Ha!

You're racist for saying that. Insulting my African pride... or british... or american... or cuban... I can keep going. :/

Let's keep race out of this.

And yes, some gays get off on five year olds. *Looks at Michael Jackson*

Looks like homosexuality hurt them quite a bit.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

SR isn't bigotted, but he has a point. Why is it that some men are so offended by two guys making love, however, aren't upset watching two women go at it.

Taking SR's statement about porn.

those of you guys that watch porn. do you watch only lesbian scenes? Or will you watch some heterosexual stuff, too? If you're watching a sex scene involving a man and a woman, would you rather the guy be erect or flat?

One of my favourite comedians is Ron White

[HolyShadow]

SR isn't bigotted, but he has a point. Why is it that some men are so offended by two guys making love, however, aren't upset watching two women go at it.

Taking SR's statement about porn.

those of you guys that watch porn. do you watch only lesbian scenes? Or will you watch some heterosexual stuff, too? If you're watching a sex scene involving a man and a woman, would you rather the guy be erect or flat?

One of my favourite comedians is Ron White
I LIKE BIG HARD COCKS!

In truth, I enjoy scenes that you can't see that part of the person.

[onidragon]

If homosexuality if treated as morally proper and fine, then why not incest, pedophilia, and bestiality?

If it's proven that these things happen in nature, then would it be fine for us to do, as the animals we are?

Discuss.

:O Fucking creep, let me explain:

Pedophilia: Mainly a psycological purpose: children can obtain severe mental issues from sex with an adult before they are ready. 16 is about when a human mind can take sex without going batshit.

Bestiality: so it's cool that I stick my cock into your cat, right?:8V:

Incest: easy, it's a DNA thing. Humans suck ASS with having someone with too similar a DNA structure reproducing with them. The result can leave the child physicaly or mentally handicapped, such as the Spanish royal family, who believed in cousin sex in order to keep the bloodline pure. This culminated in Charles II, a person so retarded metally he needed help chewing food.

[maisetofan]

who is this SR?
and wow onidragon you do not need to go off the handle on this

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

O.O

[darkarcher]

@ mai: Holy's name will soon be changed to ShiningRadiance so gcar was merely calling him his (new) nickname early.

:O Fucking creep, let me explain:

You do realize that his position does not reflect his actual views on the matter, right?

Pedophilia: Mainly a psycological purpose: children can obtain severe mental issues from sex with an adult before they are ready. 16 is about when a human mind can take sex without going batshit.

A somewhat decent point, although people keep throwing around the whole "too immature for sex" without providing any basis for that argument.

Bestiality: so it's cool that I stick my cock into your cat, right?:8V:

You're not even proving a point here...

Incest: easy, it's a DNA thing. Humans suck ASS with having someone with too similar a DNA structure reproducing with them. The result can leave the child physicaly or mentally handicapped, such as the Spanish royal family, who believed in cousin sex in order to keep the bloodline pure. This culminated in Charles II, a person so retarded metally he needed help chewing food.

Once again, people are automatically assuming that an incestual relationship will always produce offspring. Tell me, if two people having incestual intercourse used every possible contraceptive technique possible, would incest cease to be wrong?

[Fat1Fared]

Dark, me and spoofs had the incest one, and I said if it is between a couple which cannot make child, IE Homosexual or have the full spip (so nothing left,) then it is between them, as not harming someone else

But, we worked out, that even with normal protection and only one genetation of incest, for normal couple, still come out with 1% chance of handicaped child, as it works out, about 1 in 5 incest babies will have a problem, and that is unfair on the child

[darkarcher]

Dark, me and spoofs had the incest one, and I said if it is between a couple which cannot make child, IE Homosexual or have the full spip (so nothing left,) then it is between them, as not harming someone else

But, we worked out, that even with normal protection and only one genetation of incest, for normal couple, still come out with 1% chance of handicaped child, as it works out, about 1 in 5 incest babies will have a problem, and that is unfair on the child

I'm sorry, but different people come up with different answers to the same question so I was posing the same point to someone else.

[Fat1Fared]

no, I wasn't disagreeing with you or anything, I was just putting down, the chances a normal incest couple would have of getting child with genetic problem, if using normal protection (IE condom and one other) so poeple, would know

and I then, just added, that to me personally, even small chance like that is too much here

[HeartRyou]

Bigoted? Ha!

You're racist for saying that. Insulting my African pride... or british... or american... or cuban... I can keep going. :/

Let's keep race out of this.

And yes, some gays get off on five year olds. *Looks at Michael Jackson*

Looks like homosexuality hurt them quite a bit.

Stop trying to be cute. And Michael Jackson isn't gay, he's an alleged pedophile, so stop trying to create a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia.

[HolyShadow]

Stop trying to be cute. And Michael Jackson isn't gay, he's an alleged pedophile, so stop trying to create a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia.
So even though there's a man who has homosexual sex with young boys...

He's not gay?

I'm sorry, but what exactly is gay? I mean, if having sex with boys isn't gay, then why was marriage between them illegal for so long?

Pull your argument together. Start using logic to defend your viewpoint instead of changing it whenever it benefits you.

Machael Jackson is a GAY pedophile. Gay is half of that equation. Unless you can completely prove that it's less detrimental to the health of a young boy to have sex with an older female than an older male, then I suggest you give up. I'd love to see you make that argument. It'll be plenty entertaining.

Mostly, in the case of pedophilia, everyone who opposes it seems to make claims with no real evidence, and when a good point is brought up, you all seem to just instantly label that person as evil or something. If you're going to oppose logic, use logic. Don't simply say something self-contradictory because it currently helps your argument. That's how you lose.

If you really want to, strap 'alleged' onto him. It doesn't take away from my point at all.

[HeartRyou]

So even though there's a man who has homosexual sex with young boys...

He's not gay?

I'm sorry, but what exactly is gay? I mean, if having sex with boys isn't gay, then why was marriage between them illegal for so long?

Pull your argument together. Start using logic to defend your viewpoint instead of changing it whenever it benefits you.

Machael Jackson is a GAY pedophile. Gay is half of that equation. Unless you can completely prove that it's less detrimental to the health of a young boy to have sex with an older female than an older male, then I suggest you give up. I'd love to see you make that argument. It'll be plenty entertaining.

Mostly, in the case of pedophilia, everyone who opposes it seems to make claims with no real evidence, and when a good point is brought up, you all seem to just instantly label that person as evil or something. If you're going to oppose logic, use logic. Don't simply say something self-contradictory because it currently helps your argument. That's how you lose.

If you really want to, strap 'alleged' onto him. It doesn't take away from my point at all.

I haven't changed my argument at all. You're the one who made the claim that a female pedophile molesting a young boy is somehow "better." You use bullshit logic and you know it. You don't like homosexuals and therefore use every opportunity you can to make them look bad, by equating them with pedophiles.

Pedophilia is a separate sexual orientation, apart from heterosexuality and homosexuality. Children lack secondary sexual characteristics so whether the child is male or female isn't so important.

The late Dr. Kurt Freund was a psychiatrist at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto, Canada. A sex researcher for well over 30 years, Dr. Freund was a pioneer in the use of the penile plethysmograph, a device which measures the sexual arousal of subjects in response to visual stimuli. Freund?s work has been cited by Timothy Dailey and by Focus on the Family as evidence for the claim that ?around 35 percent of pedophiles are homosexuals.?20 Actually, this is a grotesque distortion of what Freund has written.

Like other researchers, Freund draws a sharp distinction between attraction to adult males and attraction to prepubescent males. The clinical term he uses to describe the phenomenon of men who are attracted to other men is ?androphilia?; attraction to adult women is known as ?gynephilia.? (Since pedophilia is rarely found in women, Freund?s studies are based solely on men). Like Groth and other researchers, Freund has found that a high proportion of pedophiles prefer boys to girls, and that these pedophiles generally have little or no interest in adult males. Nowhere does Freund state that homosexuals are more inclined to molest children. In fact, according to a study he conducted of a sample of heterosexual and homosexual men, he found that there was no greater propensity for pedophilia among homosexuals than among heterosexuals: ?the erotic attractiveness of male children (or pubescents) for androphiles is not greater than the erotic attractiveness of female children (or pubescents) to gynephiles.?21

Freund stresses that pedophiles are significantly different from men who prefer adult partners, whether heterosexual or homosexual, in that their arousal pattern is lacking in gender differentiation. That is, pedophiles are attracted in general to the bodies of children; and since children lack the secondary sex characteristics which distinguish mature males and females ? body hair and muscles in men, breasts in women ? pedophiles are often attracted to both male and female children. In contrast, Freund has found that true bisexuality among the adult‑ preferring population is very rare.22

This finding is consistent with other research studies on the phenomenon of pedophilia. These studies stress that what the pedophile seeks are the qualities of ?childness,? such as small stature, hairlessness, and an innocent, trusting disposition; the maleness or femaleness of the child is secondary.23

http://www.internationalorder.org/scandal_response.html

And I'm not here to "win" an argument, I'm here to say what I think. I don't find arguing with you fun. And I haven't seen any good points on the pro-pedophile side. Probably because there are none.

[HolyShadow]

And I'm not here to "win" an argument, I'm here to say what I think. I don't find arguing with you fun. And I haven't seen any good points on the pro-pedophile side. Probably because there are none.
Okay, then I'll go at it from a different angle. What age would you say is okay for someone to consent to sex? 16?

People grow at different rates. there are some that won't be able to until they're 17. In this case, is it pedophilia for a 17 year old to sleep with that 16 year old even though they can't consciously consent to it, despite it being legal?

Also, your little source never studied deep into women, so there's no real proof against what I said. Prove to me that the MALE CHILDREN prefer a man molesting them than a woman.

[HeartRyou]

Okay, then I'll go at it from a different angle. What age would you say is okay for someone to consent to sex? 16?

People grow at different rates. there are some that won't be able to until they're 17. In this case, is it pedophilia for a 17 year old to sleep with that 16 year old even though they can't consciously consent to it, despite it being legal?

Also, your little source never studied deep into women, so there's no real proof against what I said. Prove to me that the MALE CHILDREN prefer a man molesting them than a woman.

It says right in the portion that I copied and pasted for you that pedophilia is rarely seen in women, that's why it can't be studied. Pedophilia tends to be a male disorder.

By 16/17, a healthy human body should have at least started puberty, in which case it is no longer pedophilia.

[HolyShadow]

It says right in the portion that I copied and pasted for you that pedophilia is rarely seen in women, that's why it can't be studied. Pedophilia tends to be a male disorder.

By 16/17, a healthy human body should have at least started puberty, in which case it is no longer pedophilia.
When does puberty normally start? Around 12, correct?

So are you saying that we can fuck a 12 year old and it isn't pedophilia?

[HeartRyou]

When does puberty normally start? Around 12, correct?

So are you saying that we can fuck a 12 year old and it isn't pedophilia?

Who's we?

pedophilia - sexual preference for prepubescent youths
hebephilia - preference for pubescent youths
ephebophelia - preference for mid-to-late adolescents

No.

[HolyShadow]

Who's we?

pedophilia - sexual preference for prepubescent youths
hebephilia - preference for pubescent youths
ephebophelia - preference for mid-to-late adolescents

No.
So pedophilia is wrong, but those other two are alright?

[HeartRyou]

So pedophilia is wrong, but those other two are alright?

Pedophilia is wrong. I don't care to discuss the other two with you.

[HolyShadow]

Pedophilia is wrong. I don't care to discuss the other two with you.
Oh, so you do support the other two. Good to know that you'll have sex with 12 year olds without a second thought. :/

[HeartRyou]

Oh, so you do support the other two. Good to know that you'll have sex with 12 year olds without a second thought. :/

You're a pig. But I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who compares homosexuals to pedophiles.

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

Oooooooh! Hush mouth! *just a bystander who checks this thread for new posts cuz of good convos and well thought out arguments*

[HolyShadow]

You're a pig. But I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who compares homosexuals to pedophiles.
Do you have a choice to be a pedophile?

Likewise, do you have a choice to be a homosexual?

[Turtlicious]

this isnt really well thought out debating guys...

*shuts up and flees from the flames*

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

I thought it was, turtle. Sorta

[Turtlicious]

I was agreeing with holy shadow
and reffering to this
You're a pig. But I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who compares homosexuals to pedophiles.

[HeartRyou]

Do you have a choice to be a pedophile?

Likewise, do you have a choice to be a homosexual?

Do you have a choice to be a heterosexual? The similarities end there.

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

'Nother hushmouth, holy

[HolyShadow]

Do you have a choice to be a heterosexual? The similarities end there.
Actually, I do have the choice. After all, it's my opinion that homosexuals can choose whether to be homosexuals or not. It's just that it's so early on that it's unlikely that they'll be able to comprehend it completely and it therefore leads them to truly believing that it wasn't their choice.

Of course, you could make the argument that it's not a choice and it's due to genetics. In which case, I'd like to see some proof of that. Any at all.

Note that this wasn't necessarily meant to debate homosexuals in depth. There's a thread up for that already. If you wish to flame me some more regarding this, do so there.

[HeartRyou]

Actually, I do have the choice. After all, it's my opinion that homosexuals can choose whether to be homosexuals or not. It's just that it's so early on that it's unlikely that they'll be able to comprehend it completely and it therefore leads them to truly believing that it wasn't their choice.

Of course, you could make the argument that it's not a choice and it's due to genetics. In which case, I'd like to see some proof of that. Any at all.

Note that this wasn't necessarily meant to debate homosexuals in depth. There's a thread up for that already. If you wish to flame me some more regarding this, do so there.

I'm not here to champion or debate homosexuality, I just thought it was offensive to compare people who like adults of their own gender to people who like children.

And Turtle, I'm not here to debate. I'm here to express my opinion.

[HolyShadow]

I'm not here to champion or debate homosexuality, I just thought it was offensive to compare people who like adults of their own gender to people who like children.

And Turtle, I'm not here to debate. I'm here to express my opinion.
And to flame me as well, it seems...

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

Do you have a choice to be a pedophile?

Likewise, do you have a choice to be a homosexual?

There is a choice to stop the cycle of abuse.

A pedophile rapes a 5-year-old, the child develops mental issues, grows up, and can either seek help to understand that the attack at that early age was wrong, abuse/ rape other 5-year-olds.

On the Topic of Incest: Taking a Religious note here, Adam and Eve were the first Man and Woman on the planet, set with the task of populating the Earth with Humans. If Adam, Eve, and their children were the ONLY people on the planet at the time, how did they populate the planet WITHOUT resorting to incest?

[HeartRyou]

Unlike you I say what I really believe rather than saying what I think will piss people off.

[HolyShadow]

Unlike you I say what I really believe rather than saying what I think will piss people off.
I provide a feasible argument that challenges you. It's not much of a discussion if everyone agrees.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

Unlike you I say what I really believe rather than saying what I think will piss people off.

excuse me?
I believe what I say, too.
But, if you're talking about SR, He's not saying things to piss people off, or not me, at least. He's posing some valid questions regarding pedophilia and homosexuality.

For Example:
John Wayne Gacy was a prominent Businessman that happened to be homosexual as well as Rape, Kill, and bury his young MALE victims in his basement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy

[HeartRyou]

excuse me?
I believe what I say, too.
But, if you're talking about SR, He's not saying things to piss people off, or not me, at least. He's posing some valid questions regarding pedophilia and homosexuality.

I wasn't directing anything towards you.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

I wasn't directing anything towards you.

IMO: SR, isn't just spouting whatever he thinks will piss people off. I've read his posts and he'll veer a little when making a point, however these ARE some valid questions. There ARE some MALE pedophiles that prey of young children of their OWN gender. We might not like what he is saying, but SR is stating a fact.

[HeartRyou]

IMO: SR, isn't just spouting whatever he thinks will piss people off. I've read his posts and he'll veer a little when making a point, however these ARE some valid questions. There ARE some MALE pedophiles that prey of young children of their OWN gender. We might not like what he is saying, but SR is stating a fact.

And I posted a link to an article which explained the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

[HolyShadow]

And I posted a link to an article which explained the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.
As gcar pointed out, pretending that no homosexual can be a pedophile is... arrogant and wrong.

[Fat1Fared]

to be fair, I don't think that was what Ryou was saying, I think she was saying that to say all Homosexuals are Pedophiles is wrong,

in same way your saying that not all homosexuals ain't pedophiles, so in truth both saying same thing there, but in different way

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

And I posted a link to an article which explained the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

so your saying that a fully grown adult MAN that preys on 10 year old BOYS is straight?

[HeartRyou]

so your saying that a fully grown adult MAN that preys on 10 year old BOYS is straight?

If you'd read the article through the link I posted you'd understand that pedophilia is entirely regardless of sexual orientation. Here it is again:

http://www.internationalorder.org/scandal_response.html

[HolyShadow]

Now, I enjoy loli yuri much, much more than shota yaoi. Know why? Cause I'm straight. What's your take on this?

[HeartRyou]

Now, I enjoy loli yuri much, much more than shota yaoi. Know why? Cause I'm straight. What's your take on this?

I'm not a psychologist, I have no desire to psychoanalyze you.

[HolyShadow]

I'm not a psychologist, I have no desire to psychoanalyze you.
Because you're wrong in this situation. If you try to say that it's different than actual pedophilia, then you're contradicting yourself. If you try to say that it's the same thing, then you're contradicting that pedophilia and heterosexuality/homosexuality are different.

[Turtlicious]

lookman right now i feel like your kinda bashing on homosexuals now im not sure if thats what youre trying to do but it feels that way please try to be considerate of ppls feelings mmkay

[HeartRyou]

I never said they were the same exact thing. I just thought they were similar, and that's why I asked about other people's opinions.

[HolyShadow]

lookman right now i feel like your kinda bashing on homosexuals now im not sure if thats what youre trying to do but it feels that way please try to be considerate of ppls feelings mmkay
No, I will not. I hate being told what to do, so don't even go there.

I never said they were the same exact thing. I just thought they were similar, and that's why I asked about other people's opinions.

And flamed me several times when I disagreed with you. >_>

[HeartRyou]

Other people disagreed with me and I didn't flame them.

[HolyShadow]

Other people disagreed with me and I didn't flame them.
So you admit you flamed me several times when I disagreed with you.

[HeartRyou]

No. I'm saying that you're not special, if I'd flamed you for disagreeing with me I would have flamed everyone else who disagreed with me as well.

[Turtlicious]

please everyone this is a debate room use facts or stop this is blatant fighting and is unnecessary agree to disagree

*commits hare-kare*

[HolyShadow]

No. I'm saying that you're not special, if I'd flamed you for disagreeing with me I would have flamed everyone else who disagreed with me as well.
So even though you flamed me and no one else I'm no different than anyone else? :/

[HeartRyou]

Turtlicious is right, don't be a child. I didn't flame you.

[Turtlicious]

thank you. but now im going to be flamed and/or hated

[HolyShadow]

Heart, you called me bigoted and a pig. Turt called me bigoted, I believe. I'm also tired of you two and MKG basically telling me to shut up every 2 posts. Stop that. I have just as much a right to post here as anyone else.

[Turtlicious]

of course when you say educated things this part has special rules

but im not teling everyone to shutup i just think we should all be sensitive of each others feelings...

[HolyShadow]

of course when you say educated things this part has special rules

but im not teling everyone to shutup i just think we should all be sensitive of each others feelings...
Then be sensitive of mine and don't call me a bigot. It makes me feel sad and sad is a feeling.

[Turtlicious]

I apologize i really do. bigot was uneccesary

[HolyShadow]

I apologize i really do. bigot was uneccesary
Thank you. I'll try to be nicer about the things I say. However, the substance of what I say will remain unchanged.

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

*reference to a calmer version of Lovely Complex*

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

If you'd read the article through the link I posted you'd understand that pedophilia is entirely regardless of sexual orientation. Here it is again:

http://www.internationalorder.org/scandal_response.html

I read the article, but and I'm not saying that ALL pedophiles are homosexual just some. Even in your article, it says that 1/3 of pedophiles are homosexual.

pedophile

noun

Definition:

adult with sexual desire for children: an adult who has sexual desire for children or who has committed the crime of sex with a child

That adult can be Male or female and take an interest in a child that's Male or female.

Have you ever seen Dateline's "to Catch a Predator?" Not all the pedophiles that get caught are after the 12 year old girl.
Like this guy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25110874#25111075

[HeartRyou]

I read the article, but and I'm not saying that ALL pedophiles are homosexual just some. Even in your article, it says that 1/3 of pedophiles are homosexual.

Show me some respect and actually read it, past the first paragraph. Carefully this time.

In his work, Groth has found that approximately one‑third of all cases of child molestation involve an underage boy and an adult male14, a statistic which has been used incessantly by certain conservative activist groups in an effort to prove that homosexuals are disproportionately responsible for acts of child molestation. However, Groth explicitly states that it is a myth that men who molest boys are homosexual.

Groth writes that the fixated offender, or pedophile, tends to select boys more often than girls, but for reasons having nothing to do with homosexuality:

In general, fixated child molesters are drawn to children sexually in that they identify with the child and appear in some ways to want to remain children themselves. It is for this reason that the trend for fixated offenders is to target boys as victims. . . . They see the boy as a projected representation of themselves. They feel themselves to be more child than adult ? more boys than men ? and therefore find themselves more comfortable (especially sexually) in the company of children. . . .16

Groth stresses that ?these same individuals are uninterested in adult homosexual relationships. In fact, they frequently express a strong sexual aversion to adult males, reporting that what they find attractive about the immature boy are his feminine features and the absence of secondary sexual characteristics such as body hair and muscles.?17 The second type of offender, the regressed offender, is predominantly heterosexual. However, he may temporarily turn to boys or girls as a result of complications in his adult relations.18 Although regressed offenders are more likely to choose girls than boys as victims, writes Groth, what attracts the regressed male offender to boys are the feminine characteristics of pre‑ pubescents. Groth found no cases of boy molestation in which the offender had an adult homosexual orientation. Concludes Groth,

Homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia are not synonymous. In fact, it may be that these two orientations are mutually exclusive, the reason being that the homosexual male is sexually attracted to masculine qualities whereas the heterosexual male is sexually attracted to feminine characteristics, and the sexually immature child?s qualities are more feminine than masculine. . . . The child offender who is attracted to and engaged in adult sexual relationships is heterosexual. It appears, therefore, that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater sexual risk to underage children than does the adult homosexual male.19

And in another study,

[I]Based on Abel’s statistics, if approximately 33 percent of all molestations are male-on-male, and 21 percent of these cases are committed by homosexuals, the actual percentage of molesters who are homosexual is 21% x 33% = 6.9%. Keeping in mind that even the best surveys have a margin of error of a few percentage points, this figure is pretty close to the figures usually given for the total percentage of homosexuals in the overall population, which is about five percent.28 In other words, homosexual males are not a significantly greater threat to children proportionately than straight males. (In fact, one could argue that since the number of molestations committed by females is relatively rare, it is clear that lesbians pose less of a threat to children than straight males.)

That adult can be Male or female and take an interest in a child that's Male or female.
Yes. But in females it's extremely rare.

Have you ever seen Dateline's "to Catch a Predator?" Not all the pedophiles that get caught are after the 12 year old girl.
Like this guy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/25110874#25111075

Once again, if you actually read the article you'd know that had nothing to do with homosexuality. And Dateline is anecdotal evidence.

Personally I think the religious aspect of that article is complete crap but the statistics are worth investigating.

[HolyShadow]

Yes. But in females it's extremely rare.
Or just under reported, like in female on male rape. Maybe the boys actually like having sex with a woman older than them...?

Of course, what do I know? I'm only a male who wanted an older woman to have sex with him when he was 10... OWATE

[HeartRyou]

Stop trying to excuse pedophilia unless you actually find non-anecdotal evidence to support it. Just because you were a pervy 10 year old doesn't mean other boys are too.

[maisetofan]

LOL

[OverMind]

Stop trying to excuse pedophilia unless you actually find non-anecdotal evidence to support it. Just because you were a pervy 10 year old doesn't mean other boys are too.

I'd actually be upset if an older woman (regardless of how attractive she was) took advantage of me when I was a child. I'd feel "used".

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

Show me some respect and actually read it, past the first paragraph. Carefully this time.



Why don't YOU show me some respect.
I'm NOT saying all Homosexuals go after 10 year old little boys.
YOU posted the article, I read it.
I found holes in the article and found evidence to support my arguments.
Anectdotal or otherwise.
The fact remains NOT all MALE pedophiles go after 12 year old GIRLS.
SOME go after 12 year old BOYS.


Back to my original link.
John Wayne Gacy was married to a woman to hide the fact that he was gay and had affairs WITH BOYS AND MEN.
He Raped, Killed, and Burried some 18-30 BOYS in his basement.

[Mokuba Kaiba's Girl]

O.O

[HolyShadow]

Stop trying to excuse pedophilia unless you actually find non-anecdotal evidence to support it. Just because you were a pervy 10 year old doesn't mean other boys are too.
Anecdotal evidence counts. I showed one situation in which my argument has been supported and counters yours.

Now, try to disprove that I would've enjoyed an older woman when I looked at porn starting when I was freaking ten. Go on. Try.

[OverMind]

Anecdotal evidence counts.

From Wikipedia:

(1) Evidence in the form of an anecdote or hearsay is called anecdotal if there is doubt about its veracity: the evidence itself is considered untrustworthy or untrue.

(2) Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence. For example "my grandfather smoked like a chimney and died healthy in a car crash at the age of 99" does not disprove the proposition that "smoking markedly increases the probability of cancer and heart disease at a relatively early age". In this case, the evidence may itself be true, but does not warrant the conclusion.

If your conclusion is this:

Maybe the boys actually like having sex with a woman older than them...?

And the evidence is your own circumstances, then it falls under the category of (2) and, as such, cannot be used to argue a general case.

[HolyShadow]

And the evidence is your own circumstances, then it falls under the category of (2) and, as such, cannot be used to argue a general case.
I said maybe, you know. >_> I'm not going to say that all 12 year old boys would enjoy an 18 year old girl more than a 12 year old girl. Just some. In this case, I was one of the some. Should I survey?

...Of course, I recall in elementary school that all of the boys kept staring at my sister's chest, who happens to be 10 years older than me...

[OverMind]

I said maybe, you know. >_> I'm not going to say that all 12 year old boys would enjoy an 18 year old girl more than a 12 year old girl. Just some. In this case, I was one of the some. Should I survey?

No, no, I'm just stating that you can't generalize. I'm sure you're not alone in having fantasies of older women as a child, but everyone?

...Of course, I recall in elementary school that all of the boys kept staring at my sister's chest, who happens to be 10 years older than me...

We're all curious of the opposite sex, aren't we? Of course, I'll probably never understand the female mind ever in my life.

[HolyShadow]

My father says this:

"Freddie Mercury died of AIDS brought on by homosexual orgies."

So maybe homosexuality itself isn't that bad, but orgies? Seems kinda risky.

(Note that I didn't put homosexual before orgies)

[OverMind]

My father says this:

"Freddie Mercury died of AIDS brought on by homosexual orgies."

So maybe homosexuality itself isn't that bad, but orgies? Seems kinda risky.

(Note that I didn't put homosexual before orgies)

I've never been invited to an orgy so I haven't the faintest clue if the risk is worth it.

Anyone care to share their orgy experiences (since orgies are deviant, by society's standards)?

[HolyShadow]

Ah, yes. Every now and then I'll play several eroge at once, resulting in a digital gangbang, and occasionally, I'll get a trojan. Of course, Norton, my doctor, just likes to overcharge me and constantly misdiagnoses stuff...

[OverMind]

Ah, yes. Every now and then I'll play several eroge at once, resulting in a digital gangbang, and occasionally, I'll get a trojan. Of course, Norton, my doctor, just likes to overcharge me and constantly misdiagnoses stuff...

That quack has been malpractising for years. His cousin, Sir McAfee isn't much better either.

Why go through all the hassle when a bunch of other licensed and trustworthy doctors are willing to do it all for free and offer a better quality of service.

[HolyShadow]

Why go through all the hassle when a bunch of other licensed and trustworthy prostitutes are willing to do it all for free and offer a better quality of service.
Fix'd?

[OverMind]

trustworthy prostitutes

This is an oxymoron.

[HolyShadow]

This is an oxymoron.
Are you saying GameGuy is an oxymoron?

[OverMind]

Are you saying GameGuy is an oxymoron?

The words "Game" and "guy", together, are not an oxymoron; they are, in fact, redundant.

On the other hand, the banned user Gameguy from this forum ... hmm ...

[Turtlicious]

Just because you were a pervy 10 year old doesn't mean other boys are too.

i was....

[Aninamar]

Aninamar, I have a new challenge for you. You have to figure out a way to incorporate this meme into every active thread on this site. :P

Alea iacta est.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1856/pedohubert.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pedohubert.jpg)

[Tristan's Voice]

Micheal Jackson died today. Was he really a pedophile, though?

[Serial Ulyssicider]

Micheal Jackson died today. Was he really a pedophile, though?

Probably yes-ish.
Or no-ish.
Depending.
He probably just liked being around little boys, not in any 'suspect' way, but most likely because his childhood was brutally destroyed by stardom, so he was perhaps desperately seeking some sort of connection with them.

[Serial Ulyssicider]

And why shouldn't Incest be legal? I don't see any problem with it as long as it's between two consenting individuals. The whole increase risk for genetic deformities argument is bullshit, because genetic deformities is possible between couples that aren't even the same family.

Plus, the bible tells us that incest is all good.
Fo' rizzle.
I know that the whole bible/incest thing gets pulled up way too many times as a joke, but the prosecution laws against it (at least in America (oh snap, I just used a TAS quote seriously)) are all based on the fact that it has been deemed 'unwholesome', and 'unhealthy'.
So, basically an affront to god.