Minimum Wage

[~p0key]

Should minimum wage be abolished?

[HolyShadow]

Hey, I'll pay you 25 cents an hour to do backbreaking labor. Will you accept?

[~p0key]

It seems like you don't know economics at all. Wages are not one sided. You cannot raise wages and expect prices to stay the same. Prices are directly affected by wages. If you have no minimum wage, sure you can be working for a quarter per hour, but a quarter would have the same buying power as say $7 when there is minimum wage. Without a minimum wage, your buying power would not change while prices relative to the global economy would drop dramatically.

The only thing the minimum wage really does is put more money in the government's pocket since taxes are based on a percentage. The more your wages increase, the more money the government takes. This wouldn't be so bad if the government spent the money here, but the reality is, it doesn't outside of the military-industrial complex.

This is also part of the reason why our jobs are being outsourced to China. As long as our prices are driven up, it becomes more expensive to produce anything here for export.

Not to mention basic free market economics would force companies to have competitive wages, so companies that are only paying a quarter an hour are not going to last very long. Property rights and freedom of contract also say hi.

[HolyShadow]

It seems like you don't know economics at all. Wages are not one sided. You cannot raise wages and expect prices to stay the same. Prices are directly affected by wages. If you have no minimum wage, sure you can be working for a quarter per hour, but a quarter would have the same buying power as say $7 when there is minimum wage. Without a minimum wage, your buying power would not change while prices relative to the global economy would drop dramatically.

The only thing the minimum wage really does is put more money in the government's pocket since taxes are based on a percentage. The more your wages increase, the more money the government takes. This wouldn't be so bad if the government spent the money here, but the reality is, it doesn't outside of the military-industrial complex.

This is also part of the reason why our jobs are being outsourced to China. As long as our prices are driven up, it becomes more expensive to produce anything here for export.
Of course, if you take into account the greed of businesses, then wages will be decreased significantly while prices don't quite go down as proportionally.

There comes a point that they can maximize their profits while paying their workers a pittance. if the majority of... I'll say part-time jobs, are like that, then only professionals will be paid properly.

Of course, suppose that a business can pay their workers $5 an hour and keep their prices the same. That means more money into their own pockets, less into yours, and the government's stays the same, assuming that the business makes roughly about as much money. Even if they make less, it's likely that the money in their own pockets will indeed go up, even if it'll be a negative business plan.

Minimum wage is a simple way of regulation to make sure that people don't radically differ in their own minimum wage inside of the company. Rules are good, not bad.

Saying things black and white usually don't work, but this I know: Management classes of large businesses are always greedy.

[~p0key]

Of course, if you take into account the greed of businesses, then wages will be decreased significantly while prices don't quite go down as proportionally.

You are an idiot. Prove prices wouldn't change if their wasn't a minimum wage and then you can talk.

There comes a point that they can maximize their profits while paying their workers a pittance. if the majority of... I'll say part-time jobs, are like that, then only professionals will be paid properly.

I already told you that if I'm being paid a quarter an our, it will still have as much buying power as $7 due to price decreases.

suppose

Argument invalid.

[HolyShadow]

You are an idiot. Prove prices wouldn't change if their wasn't a minimum wage and then you can talk.
Prove everything you're saying so far. You've given no proof whatsoever of your own claims, you call me an idiot for not giving said proof, and you expect people to take you seriously? Calm down. When you made this thread, you should have expected an answer like mine. Just because i disagree with you doesn't make me an idiot.


I already told you that if I'm being paid a quarter an our, it will still have as much buying power as $7 due to price decreases.

Unless they don't decrease the price of their merchandise and simply relocate a percentage of the funds dedicated to employee pay to their own wallets due to lack of proper regulation.


Argument invalid.

Because I'm 'supposing' something? You seem like a tough cookie to crack...

[~p0key]

Prove everything you're saying so far. You've given no proof whatsoever of your own claims, you call me an idiot for not giving said proof, and you expect people to take you seriously? Calm down. When you made this thread, you should have expected an answer like mine. Just because i disagree with you doesn't make me an idiot.

Do you know basic economics at all? Just because there is a higher minimum wage doesn't mean I magically have the money to pay you. If I can't afford workers, I would have to lay them off, raise prices, and/or outsource to China. There isn't much to prove since it's common sense.

Also, if the minimum wage works, why not raise to a million dollars an hour?

[HolyShadow]

Do you know basic economics at all? Just because there is a higher minimum wage doesn't mean I magically have the money to pay you. If I can't afford workers, I would have to lay them off and/or raise prices. It's common sense.
Which is why if they decrease pay of the workers, they have multiple means of going about things:

One: Decrease prices proportionally, which really wouldn't make a difference.
Two: Increase the number of workers, which wouldn't help at all.
Three: Relocate the funds to the CEOs' wallets.

Taking greed into consideration, many companies will go about the third option if given the chance.

Not to mention basic free market economics would force companies to have competitive wages, so companies that are only paying a quarter an hour are not going to last very long. Property rights and freedom of contract also say hi.

Unless it's regional. In which case, lower-class areas would have their own pay cap, and high-class areas would be so expensive that the lower-class would never be able to live in an area like that without incurring unreasonably huge amounts of debt from the get-go.

Also, if the minimum wage works, why not raise to a million dollars an hour?

Because it's a waste of time. As you said, if you raise minimum wage like that, everything will go up proportionately, and the only difference will be the faces on the dollar bills.

[~p0key]

Then don't work there. They won't do it if it means losing their business.

[HolyShadow]

Then don't work there. They won't do it if it means losing their business.
See my edited post above for a very valid point: Lower class to higher class and regional differences. Who says everything will be universally the same? You're htinking of a perfect world, and perfection is the one thing humans try to-- but can never-- be.

[Noah Kaiba]

I don't think it should. Many people don't understand economics -- not a whole lot people are going to bust their ass for 25 cents an hour. That would cause a bigger unemployment rate. There's no guarantee that companies would pay you fairly, they might try and compete with the Chinese cost of labor. Not all consumer prices would go down (like bills and gas). Oh, and did I mention taxes would increase?

Keep minimum wage and increase it so my Dad doesn't have to have three fucking jobs.

[~p0key]

I don't think it should. Many people don't understand economics -- not a whole lot people are going to bust their ass for 25 cents an hour. That would cause a bigger unemployment rate.

That's why companies won't pay a quarter an hour because no one will work for them. That's the beauty of the free market.

Not all consumer prices would go down (like bills and gas).

Do you have any idea why gas is expensive?

Oh, and did I mention taxes would increase?

Taxes will increase because there is no minimum wage? That doesn't make any fucking sense.

Keep minimum wage and increase it so my Dad doesn't have to have three fucking jobs.

Why not raise it to a million dollars then? Also, your dad must be an uneducated bum if all he can work at is minimum wage jobs. Stupidity and ignorance must be in your genes.

I'm a new entry worker which is precisely why I hate the minimum wage.

[Noah Kaiba]

Whatever you say, binky boy. I'm sorry if my knowledge of economics is flawed, I'm not perfect. I'm a ****ing high school student who hasn't touched upon economics much yet.

All I know is, I don't want my dad working three jobs. I want minimum wage to be increased so I would be able to see him more than twice a year. I don't want to have his pay be potentially lower than it already is. I'm sure many people hate minimum wage, but it does serve a purpose.

[~p0key]

I'm a ****ing high school student who hasn't touched upon economics much yet.

Why the fuck are you in high school and not taking an economics class? You're opinion is completely invalid.

All I know is, I don't want my dad working three jobs. I want minimum wage to be increased so I would be able to see him more than twice a year. I don't want to have his pay be potentially lower than it already is. I'm sure many people hate economics, but it does serve a purpose.

All a higher minimum wage is going to do is have him lose his jobs. What would you rather have: a quarter an hour or nothing at all?

[mystra]

Why not raise it to a million dollars then? Also, your dad must be an uneducated bum if all he can work at is minimum wage jobs. Stupidity and ignorance must be in your genes.


that was completely uncalled for and only goes to show where you come from isn't any better than what you accuse in others.

i'm a single parent and i've had to work two jobs at some points to make a living for my kid and myself. right now i'm a salaried worker who doesn't make much anyhow and is looking for a part time job. i've worked through 2 minimum wage increases and personally i've seen no difference in life overall. minimum wage increases and then so do prices on things. it's called cost of living. regardless of minimum wage prices will still continue to rise and we will not be able to take care of our lives. in this day and age the majority of Americans are not living they're surviving and hoping it gets better. changing the course of minimum wage will do nothing to better these circumstances until big shot CEOs stop putting so much money in their pockets and start giving it to those who actually run their companies.

[~p0key]

that was completely uncalled for and only goes to show where you come from isn't any better than what you accuse in others.

Truth hurts.

i'm a single parent and i've had to work two jobs at some points to make a living for my kid and myself

That's your problem. Shouldn't have had a kid if you knew you couldn't afford it.

i've worked through 2 minimum wage increases and personally i've seen no difference in life overall

Do you live under a rock? Thousands of jobs have been lost.

until big shot CEOs stop putting so much money in their pockets and start giving it to those who actually run their companies.

Last time I checked CEOs run the company. This isn't the Soviet Union.

regardless of minimum wage prices will still continue to rise and we will not be able to take care of our lives.

Explain this causeless trend.

[darkarcher]

~p0key, next time you make a comment like this...
You are an idiot.
...or this...
Also, your dad must be an uneducated bum if all he can work at is minimum wage jobs. Stupidity and ignorance must be in your genes.

...you will be banned.

Please be considerate of the other users no matter what their viewpoint may be.

[~p0key]

If you get offended over some guy on the Internet you will never meet in your life time, you fail at life.

[darkarcher]

If you cannot be respectful within the realms of a debate, then you should not be debating at all.

[HolyShadow]

Truth hurts.

Truth has no opinion. These things are your opinion. Therefore, the turht doesn't hurt; you do. Best part is, you don't have to.

That's your problem. Shouldn't have had a kid if you knew you couldn't afford it.A kid isn't an it, though I can tell you view people as nothing but objects. I'd rather not fight you over this, but generally, not everyone is perfect.

Last time I checked CEOs run the company. This isn't the Soviet Union.CEOs are greedy. :/ So... any conversation about money generally leads to their gold-lined pockets.

But the people that really run the companies are the workers. It's all about delegation of work. The top management gives jobs to middle, which give jobs to lower, and so on and so forth. The ones that truly do all the work is the lowest part of the company, not the CEOs. However, the CEOs gain more money than anyone else because they own the company and decide its direction.

It's like CEOs are strategists and the workers are the soldiers. The soldiers are the ones that win the battles, but the strategists can help considerably-- if they're not trying to get rich while doing so.

[Fat1Fared]

You are an idiot. Prove prices wouldn't change if their wasn't a minimum wage and then you can talk.

.

Go back a hundred years, to when Britain was an Ecomonic super power without Minimum wage, and you may get an answer

Loyld Goegre and the Liberal Reformers, I believe were group which bort it in and the reason for that is simple, without it many companies would pay wages which where far too low, but still be able to sell their items, to very rich middle classes, so it didn't matter the working class could barely afford to eat, let alone buy anything else, now before tell how USA isn't class based, it is, simple as that, and so without minimum wage, the prices would stay the same, as many these compianes don't sell to those on minimum wage anyway, those on minimum wage have enough to live nicely, if not well, without it, you wouldn't even get that (and if look on global size, works same way, with very poor countries making items and small number of rich in them, sell to very rich big countries,)

Now reading your comments, your ether very young and so very middle class, so have never seen the hars world or your someone with too much time on his/her hands who wishes to insult others, my Dad is a very educated and skilled man, he still had to worked 64 hours a week to put food on his familes plates, once you do that, then you can critise others (you know the best bit, he never once moaned about it, even when he was forced to quit the job he loved, to get better payed, but less likable one, and he did that for me, we may never be close, but I still respect him and learnt a lot from him, like that fact the world isn't prefect free market, and most get FUCKED in the ass by it, however without things like Mimiuim wage, it would be lot lot worse)

[~p0key]

Go back a hundred years

Stopped reading there. Times were a lot different back then, thus irrelevant.

[HolyShadow]

Stopped reading there. Times were a lot different back then, thus irrelevant.
Look back to the past to determine our direction in the future.

Besides, a hundred years is nothing in relation to the beginning of the world itself, so no, it's not a long time.

[darkarcher]

Economic theory doesn't change much over long periods of time. Fared's point is still valid.

[Fat1Fared]

oh damn he got banned, and there was me, wanting to be all moral with him lol (damn it, the one time in history, I had the moral high ground, <looks around,> Man its cold up here, I think I want to get down

[Spoofs3]

You are an idiot. Prove prices wouldn't change if their wasn't a minimum wage and then you can talk.


Go into any third world country where they are forced to work in an area where there is no minimum wage...
Amazingly they work for said quater an hour and prices are huge there to lower costs in First world countries...
If a third world country charges more, Prices will obviously rise...
That statement was completly uncalled for as calling someone an idiot and denying truth...

[Starwind]

Go into any third world country where they are forced to work in an area where there is no minimum wage...
Amazingly they work for said quater an hour and prices are huge there to lower costs in First world countries...
If a third world country charges more, Prices will obviously rise...
That statement was completly uncalled for as calling someone an idiot and denying truth...

Virtually all third world countries are dictatorships that enforce central economic planning and do not allow private property rights and other freedoms.

[Cocyta]

:: hugs ShiningRadiance, Spoofs3, Fat1Fared, Mystra, Noah Kaiba, and DarkArcher ::