Marijuana: Why All The Hate? [Archive] - Yu-Gi-Oh!: The Abridged Series

PersianSpice

08-31-2009, 07:57 PM

PersianSpice

08-31-2009, 08:17 PM

I do realize it is about economics, but if cannabis were legalized the money that would theoretically be gained from it is insane. It would probably make the crime rate more "truthful", for a lack of better word, because a greater ratio of that rate would consist of people who actually committed a real crime, not carrying around a bag of a harmless substance.

I also understand that many would stick to their dealers, but being able to go into a convenience store, buy a pack of professionally rolled joints along with a Slurpee is an option to mouth-watering for stoners to refuse. The government would make million off the taxes.

PersianSpice

08-31-2009, 08:25 PM

Well, marijuana doesn't cost much to grow, especially if the governemnt is backing it. I'm sure they can sell a pack for under $20, which is a great price.

Turtlicious

08-31-2009, 10:54 PM

I habitually smoke marijuana it helped me ace my midterms

PersianSpice

09-01-2009, 12:25 AM

They can, but will they?
Of course they will. Why wouldn't they want to be competitive with dealers? Even if they do overprice it, I'm sure millions will still buy.

Noah Kaiba

09-01-2009, 02:36 AM

Needs to be taxed and legal like salvia is. The only argument I really see against it is that it's a "gateway drug", which is BS since the same could be said for alcohol and tobacco.

The War on Drugs needs to end. It's as pointless as the Prohibition of Alcohol was. You would think we'd learn from our mistakes...

Fat1Fared

09-01-2009, 09:46 AM

Sup dudes and dudettes. Haven't been on here in a while and thought I'd have a good 'ol cannabis discussion. There was a topic a while ago but I think it'd be best to start a fresh one. Anyways -

What's with all this hate on marijuana? I know we live in a society that's perpetually getting more and more controlled by media but a farce as big as why a small plant is outlawed is pushing it. Marijuana has never killed anyone, it's never made anyone stupid (directly at least), and it's definitely not a trigger to make someone want to go commit crimes. Why don't people see that? Almost everything we're taught in school about why weed is bad for you is either over-exaggerated or a flat out lie.

Cannabis kills brain cells? Debunked in a study conducted several years ago. The original myth originated from some scientists pumping marijuana smoke into monkeys, not even letting them breath. They did lose brain cells, but from suffocation rather than smoking.

It's addictive? Caffeine was proven more addictive than marijuana. Less than 1% of America's population actually form a dependency on it. There's no reason to ban a substance because of POTENTIAL addiction. That's absurd logic. In that case pretty much damn near everything has to be outlawed.

And what's more depressing is the fact that the government didn't even know they were banning it to begin with, they were simply following some rich asshole who didn't want to lose millions in the timber industry who was threatened by hemp. That asshole, William Hurst, owned a bunch of newspapers and published a propaganda article on how marijuana was being used by people of color (blacks, hispanics) and causing them to rape women. So not only is the criminalization of marijuana founded on lies, it can also be argued that racism was involved here, too.

So what's everyone's take on this whole situation?

ok, just to jump in here, there are two reasons, one is the easy economics's, however holy has covered that, so lets move on to second reason:-

The reason poeple believe that smoking is worse (PS drinking isn't, it has negative effects and is drug, but drinking is still mild) in general society is because the effects are lot more see able from mass use and fact that the maga-negative effects of say smoking effect about 1 in 3, why'll Weed only effects about 1-10 with worse effects, (not proper stats,)
=however don't think that means weed cannot have really bad negative effects, it just there lot more subtle even in its physical effects on you, and diff the way it effects you mentally (trust me, if you see poeple who have really been hit by abusing this drug, you would be less quick to defend it) and so this coupled with the fact that they are less used (though still amazingly high use) and less likely to have negatives effects makes them seem less deadly.

And so to this leads back to argument, but smoking is legal, and this where it gets more hard, as though to me weed is bad thing, so is smoking anything and so I would ban them both, however smoking will never be fully banned and so should weed be legal, hmmm well logic may say so, but it was in england and when it was declassed as drug to point of being almost fully legal, we then got to ask are we better for it? (No, as sense it got declassed, the abuse use of drugs overall in Britain has risen (though weed cannot be blamed for this alone,) and so has the evidence to its negative effects:-)

http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/.../al200902_p18.html (http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/.../al200902_p18.htm)

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

These websites should help tell you more and in irony we both agree that there are double standards on weed, however disagree with ways of dealing with lol

Drinking is a problem as well however and one that i cannot lie about, because I abused achole at times, but it is different problem to smoking and weed and so needs to be looked at in another context

darkarcher

09-01-2009, 11:28 AM

Fat1Fared

09-01-2009, 01:44 PM

My opinion here is probably not a very good one since I think that people shouldn't be allowed to buy enough alcohol to make then drunk either...so...yeah.

And Shining's original point was correct. It has to do with economics. Alcohol is legal because it's easily taxed. People can't make it very easily on their own so they have to buy from companies, and the government can collect fees on both the distributor and consumer's ends.

Marijuana, on the other hand, is easily grown privately. If it were legal, people wouldn't necessarily buy from companies since they can make their own or buy it directly from somebody who does, which means the government will have a hard time gaining revenue off of it. They probably keep more people employed to fight marijuana than the marginal gains would justify if they legalized it.

Very true, however though to denie there is problem with acholol is a lie, I think we need to separate it from this debate here, as the "problem" with Alcohol is, unlike some other drugs it is so bad for you pure, that you have to water it down to a point where it is lot harder to abuse (depending on drink) and so why'll most could easily handle a can of beer without even realising they had drank a drug, A lot of poeple won't do this, lots will still abuse it, I generally drink responsability (believe that or don't) but I have abused alcohol in past, however I had to make a real effort to abuse it, why'll "one puff of the magic wand" could send me away.

Acholol needs dealing with, however because it is so different to Weed I think have to deal with both differently, though it sounds nice not sure how you would actually police a limit on drinking and amount poeple buy?

darkarcher

09-01-2009, 01:46 PM

Very true, however though to denie there is problem with acholol is a lie, I think we need to separate it from this debate here, as the "problem" with Alcohol is, unlike some other drugs it is so bad for you pure, that you have to water it down to a point where it is lot harder to abuse (depending on drink) and so why'll most could easily handle a can of beer without even realising they had drank a drug, A lot of poeple won't do this, lots will still abuse it, I generally drink responsability (believe that or don't) but I have abused alcohol in past, however I had to make a real effort to abuse it, why'll "one puff of the magic wand" could send me away.

Acholol needs dealing with, however because it is so different to Weed I think have to deal with both differently, though it sounds nice not sure how you would actually police a limit on drinking and amount poeple buy?

I didn't say it was practical. :P

Under Sky So Blue

09-01-2009, 05:05 PM

All drugs should be legalized, taxed, and regulated.

PersianSpice

09-01-2009, 05:40 PM

The reason poeple believe that smoking is worse (PS drinking isn't, it has negative effects and is drug, but drinking is still mild) in general society is because the effects are lot more see able from mass use and fact that the maga-negative effects of say smoking effect about 1 in 3, why'll Weed only effects about 1-10 with worse effects, (not proper stats,)
Drinking is worse. Alcoholics die of liver failure all the time but you won't ever find a pothead who has lung cancer. Why? THC, the main ingredient in cannabis as everyone knows, actually has somewhat of a protective effect on the lungs so even though you're inhaling smoke you're still giving your lungs a "medicine" so to speak. Besides, when you're high you don't lose all your inhibitions as opposed to being drunk, which is not by any stretch of the imagination "mild". I speak out of both professional studies and personal experience. Hell, most people that are high probably wouldn't be stupid enough to go on the road unless they've had experience just simply out of paranoia.

=however don't think that means weed cannot have really bad negative effects, it just there lot more subtle even in its physical effects on you, and diff the way it effects you mentally (trust me, if you see poeple who have really been hit by abusing this drug, you would be less quick to defend it) and so this coupled with the fact that they are less used (though still amazingly high use) and less likely to have negatives effects makes them seem less deadly.
It's not subtle at all. You're either high or you're not. Any and all side-effects from weed subside after you come down (short-term memory, to name one). And by the way, I'm not turning a blind eye to the people who abuse it, but you can't really expect that to be a reason for it to be bad. People abuse McDonald's but that's still legal. The fact that idiots choose to depend on a non-addictive drug is there own damn fault, not the plant.

And so to this leads back to argument, but smoking is legal, and this where it gets more hard, as though to me weed is bad thing, so is smoking anything and so I would ban them both, however smoking will never be fully banned and so should weed be legal, hmmm well logic may say so, but it was in england and when it was declassed as drug to point of being almost fully legal, we then got to ask are we better for it? (No, as sense it got declassed, the abuse use of drugs overall in Britain has risen (though weed cannot be blamed for this alone,) and so has the evidence to its negative effects:-)
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here. Could you please type more legibly and coherently so I can understand? Don't mean to be a grammar Nazi but I kind of need to understand what you're saying before I say something.

http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/.../al200902_p18.html (http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/publications/.../al200902_p18.htm)

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

These websites should help tell you more and in irony we both agree that there are double standards on weed, however disagree with ways of dealing with lol
To be honest, I don't trust any of those sites. First one is 404'd, second one is About.com and not what I'd call a real source for medical info, and last one is just some unprofessional list of so-called "facts".

Here are some sites that not only pull facts from real and RECENT scientific studies, they go as far as actually citing non-biased sources. Fancy that.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/
http://www.drugtext.org/sub/marmyt1.html
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth.shtml

Drinking is a problem as well however and one that i cannot lie about, because I abused achole at times, but it is different problem to smoking and weed and so needs to be looked at in another context
Just because people drink every now and then doesn't mean you're abusing it. Same goes with cannabis.

PersianSpice

09-01-2009, 05:47 PM

Excuse the double post.

My opinion here is probably not a very good one since I think that people shouldn't be allowed to buy enough alcohol to make then drunk either...so...yeah.

And Shining's original point was correct. It has to do with economics. Alcohol is legal because it's easily taxed. People can't make it very easily on their own so they have to buy from companies, and the government can collect fees on both the distributor and consumer's ends.

Marijuana, on the other hand, is easily grown privately. If it were legal, people wouldn't necessarily buy from companies since they can make their own or buy it directly from somebody who does, which means the government will have a hard time gaining revenue off of it. They probably keep more people employed to fight marijuana than the marginal gains would justify if they legalized it.

It may be easily grown privately, but being able to go to a convenience store is far more reliable than people having to depend on dealers who might fall through. Hell, lots of dealers are shady as hell and I can bet millions of people would rather not have those interactions.

And once again, the government would want to be competitive so they'd probably undercut the dealer's prices seeing as how it's so cheap to grow.

mystra

09-01-2009, 05:58 PM

Alcohol is legal because it's easily taxed. People can't make it very easily on their own so they have to buy from companies, and the government can collect fees on both the distributor and consumer's ends. Yes and no. It actually isn't that hard to make simple beer. Wine is much harder though.

Needs to be taxed and legal like salvia is. Salvia Divinorum is actually not legal in all states. The same goes for wormwood as well. Although when it comes to these hallcunigenic herbs not much public and noticeable testing has been done on these. There are also plenty of other herbs and combinations of herbs that cause a high or have hallucinogenic properties that the government hasn't even bothered to look into.

Personally I don't have a problem with weed being smoked for recreational or spiritual use. I thinke it can and should be legalized and treated in the same category as alcohol. I'm sure there's someone smart enough somewhere to come up with a breathalyzer program the same way they did for alcohol.

Kanariya674

09-01-2009, 07:02 PM

Considering the reoccurring theme of alcohol here, it is a good argument as to why marijuana is illegal and yet alcohol isn't. Everyone here for legalization has their points, and they are very clear.

However, I agree with people here, but in a way I don't. If marijuana was to be legalized, there will be a lot of stupid jerks who would abuse it like they do alcohol. (There are already are, you know). That means being constantly high, and in a lot of cases that makes people test or work better, but in some cases it's the complete opposite. That means more 'rehab', and in effect more money spent.

I want to say even if it hasn't come up yet, the marijuana is not addictive thing is bull. Marijuana is just as addictive as alcohol. There isn't an actual substance in it that makes you crave it, but the feeling can be that good. So mentally, people can become very addicted. Had a bad day? Light a blunt. That's the mentality a lot of time, and it becomes reoccurring until you're smoking many of times. Now I'm not saying this applies to every marijuana smoker, but it has that potential. That's what people argue.

Alcohol is the same way. Both are drugs in that sense; they make you crave it whether it be physically or mentally. In that sense, they both should be banned or they both should be legalized.

Personally, I don't like it. I never drank alcohol to make a bad day go away, nor did I smoke. I think it's rather unattractive, and I don't like being dependent on things. That's not my style, and it never will be. I don't want to be in an elated state all the time, even if I did score better. That's not what I really am, if I'm high all the time.

Plus, I can't afford it. Good alcohol is expensive, and it's the same way with weed. I don't have money for that, when my basic needs come first.

If anything, alcohol and cigarettes should be banned instead of that. Those two physically damage the body more than marijuana does.

But, note to you guys - I wouldn't drive while high. A close friend of one of my buddies was high and so out of it that she crashed into a lamp post and over the beltway, flipping over her car. She was in a coma, kept alive as a vegetable. Her parents pulled the plug not even a month ago.

Think about that too, you know. People react to it in different ways.

Tristan's Voice

09-01-2009, 07:31 PM

Fat1Fared

09-01-2009, 07:32 PM

Drinking is worse. Alcoholics die of liver failure all the time but you won't ever find a pothead who has lung cancer. Why? THC, the main ingredient in cannabis as everyone knows, actually has somewhat of a protective effect on the lungs so even though you're inhaling smoke you're still giving your lungs a "medicine" so to speak. Besides, when you're high you don't lose all your inhibitions as opposed to being drunk, which is not by any stretch of the imagination "mild". I speak out of both professional studies and personal experience. Hell, most people that are high probably wouldn't be stupid enough to go on the road unless they've had experience just simply out of paranoia.

Ok, maybe if you read what I put, you may actually understand what on about, I never said that beer was good, infact I said complete opposite, however it isn't worse than Weed, it is lot harder to mess yourself up with Alcohol than is Weed, however course more poeple will die from alcohol if more poeple use it, more of time, that doesn't mean alcohol is worse, just more abused.

It's not subtle at all. You're either high or you're not. Any and all side-effects from weed subside after you come down (short-term memory, to name one). And by the way, I'm not turning a blind eye to the people who abuse it, but you can't really expect that to be a reason for it to be bad. People abuse McDonald's but that's still legal. The fact that idiots choose to depend on a non-addictive drug is there own damn fault, not the plant.

Again, read what I put, I was clearly on about long term effects, if it was just the short term effects, then yes I wouldn't mind weed, but it does have long term effects which cannot be rejected

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying here. Could you please type more legibly and coherently so I can understand? Don't mean to be a grammar Nazi but I kind of need to understand what you're saying before I say something.

Ok, I think being serious here, as seem to be and don;t know me will enough to take piss out of my dyslexia, so I will answer properly, the point I'm making is simple one, in UK Weed is basically legal and sense it was made legal, a lot of problems have come from it, from raise in general drug problems (which admittedly cannot all be put at weeds feet) to raise in normal of poeple suffering from its long term problems, which is pretty easy to work out why

To be honest, I don't trust any of those sites. First one is 404'd, second one is About.com and not what I'd call a real source for medical info, and last one is just some unprofessional list of so-called "facts".
[/QUOTE]

The first one's site may not be what you call amazing, however if actually read it, you see the site is just link to proper reseach

as for other 2, I will admit I didn't take too much care in picking them, but the information on them is true and if you don't wish to believe it, not much I can do or say, so I just hope for your sake you don't suffer any negative effects from use of weed (you seem generally pretty level headed, so like me controlling my gambling and acholole use, sure you can control yours, sadly not everyone will be like you and sometimes the state does need to nanny poeple, I know I talk about her a lot, but my sister is psychiatric nurse and if I got pound for every time she told me about someone one who had ruined there life with drugs (and weed included,) well lets just say my life would be made, I know it may seem harmless at time and hell only using say once every so often probably is harmless, however just look at examples you put of McD's, smoking and acholole, all fine in small amounts, but most poeple don't use it that way and it isn't case of there legal, so everything should be as well, it is more case that others should not be legal as well as this, the only one which is maybe little different is Acholole, and that depends on type because is lot harder to abuse, but there is arguments against that, but think acholole is problem which needs tackling in different )

Here are some sites that not only pull facts from real and RECENT scientific studies, they go as far as actually citing non-biased sources. Fancy that.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/
http://www.drugtext.org/sub/marmyt1.html
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth.shtml

Mate I admit only simi read them, but don't think their anymore reiable than mine, because flashy site, I looked at "Real Scientific Study from 90's and that proved that smoking tacbo didn't cause Lung Can, of course it forget to say the tar did, guess who payed for this "research" and used that little point to further their own ends?
=point is, science isn't always force for good and can be abused as much as drugs we are on about, I'm not saying these sites are false as I cannot say if are true and false, just saying don't be so quick to trust them and dismiss mine, because one side proves your points, the other doesn't, and I too need to do same.

however on the evidence side, seeing is believing. Now, I dislike to use such subjective evidence but will anyway, I know co-worker of my dad, (a man who till he met this guy thought same as you, he wouldn't do Weed, but wasn't against it being legal) however this guy shows all classic signs of weed abuser, he is paranoid, slow responses, lung problems...etc, now I cannot say how much he uses or how far his effects are subjective to him, so far from proves my point, however point is, poeple will get like him, if legalize it

Just because people drink every now and then doesn't mean you're abusing it. Same goes with cannabis.

Indeed, and that is answered above, though there will be those who can use it responsibility, a lot won't, specifically those those who don't know how because don't have knowledge or exp, but shouldn't find it ready for use legally or those who simply cannot control their own wants

=however like I said I think drinking and Cannabis need to be looked at different ways, but if go on smoking, like I said I would ban both (not that it would be possible to actually do, just saying)

On, the whole I agree Cannabis is victem of double standards in politics and far from worse thing out there, however to me, that doesn't act as justification for it legalization, it shows that there are other problems we need to deal with in fact.

PS I think kana, has shown my view better than I did (only little different on some areas, as don't ban acholole, but needs to be better restrictions and laws around it, I mean in UK you can legally drink in own home at age of 14 o0)

PSS mysta, making beer is easy, making beer I would drink isn't so much lol

PersianSpice

09-01-2009, 09:23 PM

Marijuana is illegal because it is hard to keep track of selling.

Anyways, no one likes a drunk in the same way no one likes one who is high:

"Hey...Heydude, I...Just want to...tell you...that *vomits*...I love you...Kiss me...*faints*"
There is not one person I've ever been with that's high that's acted like that. That's probably a one in a hundred thousand situation. Drunk, yes, but if you vomit while you're high you are not going to say I love you. Ever.

Ok, maybe if you read what I put, you may actually understand what on about, I never said that beer was good, infact I said complete opposite, however it isn't worse than Weed, it is lot harder to mess yourself up with Alcohol than is Weed, however course more poeple will die from alcohol if more poeple use it, more of time, that doesn't mean alcohol is worse, just more abused.
Actually, marijuana is better for you. Beer, despite the incredibly small amount of alcohol, still damages your liver and cannot be consumed any other way. Marijuana can be cooked into food making it virtually harmless in nearly all senses of the word.

Again, read what I put, I was clearly on about long term effects, if it was just the short term effects, then yes I wouldn't mind weed, but it does have long term effects which cannot be rejected
There really aren't any long-term effects seeing as to attain those effects, one would have to smoke weed (at least) daily which is a hard feat and something that very few people do. I hate having to bring alcohol up again (seeing as it's the easiest comparison to do, it's almost inevitable), but the effects of being a drunk your whole life as opposed to be a pothead is most likely far more devastating.

Ok, I think being serious here, as seem to be and don;t know me will enough to take piss out of my dyslexia, so I will answer properly, the point I'm making is simple one, in UK Weed is basically legal and sense it was made legal, a lot of problems have come from it, from raise in general drug problems (which admittedly cannot all be put at weeds feet) to raise in normal of poeple suffering from its long term problems, which is pretty easy to work out why
I'm sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always heard the UK has had a problem with crime, the fact that a drug has become "basically" legal and has been causing problems comes as no surprise. Give something like weed to an abused population and they'll most likely abuse said drug.

The first one's site may not be what you call amazing, however if actually read it, you see the site is just link to proper reseach

Well the site doesn't load for me so I really can't check it out.

as for other 2, I will admit I didn't take too much care in picking them, but the information on them is true and if you don't wish to believe it, not much I can do or say, so I just hope for your sake you don't suffer any negative effects from use of weed (you seem generally pretty level headed, so like me controlling my gambling and acholole use, sure you can control yours, sadly not everyone will be like you and sometimes the state does need to nanny poeple, I know I talk about her a lot, but my sister is psychiatric nurse and if I got pound for every time she told me about someone one who had ruined there life with drugs (and weed included,) well lets just say my life would be made, I know it may seem harmless at time and hell only using say once every so often probably is harmless, however just look at examples you put of McD's, smoking and acholole, all fine in small amounts, but most poeple don't use it that way and it isn't case of there legal, so everything should be as well, it is more case that others should not be legal as well as this, the only one which is maybe little different is Acholole, and that depends on type because is lot harder to abuse, but there is arguments against that, but think acholole is problem which needs tackling in different )
I'm not denying that weed hasn't caused problems, but this is all a matter of mental health. I knew what I was getting into when I started and have been holding steadfast to it. However the problems weed create pale in comparison to any other kind of drug or beverage that it's almost laughable.

Mate I admit only simi read them, but don't think their anymore reiable than mine, because flashy site, I looked at "Real Scientific Study from 90's and that proved that smoking tacbo didn't cause Lung Can, of course it forget to say the tar did, guess who payed for this "research" and used that little point to further their own ends?
=point is, science isn't always force for good and can be abused as much as drugs we are on about, I'm not saying these sites are false as I cannot say if are true and false, just saying don't be so quick to trust them and dismiss mine, because one side proves your points, the other doesn't, and I too need to do same.
I barely looked at that site, but I've read the other two thoroughly. I believe them because A) they're not government-funded and B) they don't look like they were made by a 12 year old learning basic HTML. If my intuition is incorrect then the school system has failed me (which wouldn't be that big of a surprise, to be honest).

however on the evidence side, seeing is believing. Now, I dislike to use such subjective evidence but will anyway, I know co-worker of my dad, (a man who till he met this guy thought same as you, he wouldn't do Weed, but wasn't against it being legal) however this guy shows all classic signs of weed abuser, he is paranoid, slow responses, lung problems...etc, now I cannot say how much he uses or how far his effects are subjective to him, so far from proves my point, however point is, poeple will get like him, if legalize it
Not trying to be defensive, but a number of variables can effect paranoia and slow response time. Maybe not lung capacity but I haven't seen a study or talked to a guy who toked up a lot that have really shown a terrible lung problem. If there is a lung problem, it's more likely because weed set them on the road to cigarettes, which are arguably worse.

Fat1Fared

09-02-2009, 10:44 AM

There is not one person I've ever been with that's high that's acted like that. That's probably a one in a hundred thousand situation. Drunk, yes, but if you vomit while you're high you are not going to say I love you. Ever.

I think that is called taking a statement too literally lol

Actually, marijuana is better for you. Beer, despite the incredibly small amount of alcohol, still damages your liver and cannot be consumed any other way. Marijuana can be cooked into food making it virtually harmless in nearly all senses of the word.

Ok, it looks like you do not want to read what I'm putting, so I will try one last time, in different way and then give up:-

If you drank a normal sized glass of <place own drink> a day, it would have little to no, negative effects depending on person.
Like you said yourself, if you had 1 weed a day, it would have several negative effects.

Weed is worse, not the worse drug going by any means, but worse than alcohol, it is just that poeple don't use it like that, A lot of poeple will drink a lot more than they use weed, this doesn't mean weed is better, it means it is not as abused as alcohol's is, in that way. However if you made it legal I suspect looking at it, there is good chance it would be.

There really aren't any long-term effects seeing as to attain those effects, one would have to smoke weed (at least) daily which is a hard feat and something that very few people do. I hate having to bring alcohol up again (seeing as it's the easiest comparison to do, it's almost inevitable), but the effects of being a drunk your whole life as opposed to be a pothead is most likely far more devastating.

This is something where you have to choose what to believe, if you wish to believe no negative effects, I cannot stop you, I just hope you don't live to regret that

I'm sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always heard the UK has had a problem with crime, the fact that a drug has become "basically" legal and has been causing problems comes as no surprise. Give something like weed to an abused population and they'll most likely abuse said drug.

As well as not being sure what hope to prove here, I have to say that I think you must be making a joking here, as you don't seem like kind of person who would normally make such silly comment. Yes we have crime, are we worse county in world for crime? Statistically no, but then statistic's are flawed here anyway, as depends what you see as crime and lot of others things.....etc

And this is all moot point, as nothing to do with what I was saying, I'm on about fact that UK has shown that making weed more legal isn't always the answer and if you feel that USA is going to be more responsible, well that is tech impossible to say, but I wouldn't count on it.

Well the site doesn't load for me so I really can't check it out.

I will check the address to make sure, as sometimes doesn't always make link right

I'm not denying that weed hasn't caused problems, but this is all a matter of mental health. I knew what I was getting into when I started and have been holding steadfast to it. However the problems weed create pale in comparison to any other kind of drug or beverage that it's almost laughable.

Again, if you wish to look at it all as small thing, that is your choice, I just hope you don't live to regret it.

I barely looked at that site, but I've read the other two thoroughly. I believe them because A) they're not government-funded and B) they don't look like they were made by a 12 year old learning basic HTML. If my intuition is incorrect then the school system has failed me (which wouldn't be that big of a surprise, to be honest).

Sometimes a flashy site doesn't make the research on it, anymore valid, just makes more appealing to eye and so poeple feel it is more valid. And just because the person funding it isn't government, doesn't mean they don't have own aims and agenda's to push forward, IE that smoking example, it was smoking companies who published their results not government.

Not trying to be defensive, but a number of variables can effect paranoia and slow response time. Maybe not lung capacity but I haven't seen a study or talked to a guy who toked up a lot that have really shown a terrible lung problem. If there is a lung problem, it's more likely because weed set them on the road to cigarettes, which are arguably worse.

Well like I said he was hardly conclusive, but an example of what it can do and not to believe these poeple who tell you it is harmless, it may not be worse thing out there, but isn't good ether. (and as far as I know, he has never smoked cig, however that is only far as I know)

I feel not about down grading Weed, but upgrading cigs and alcohol and So that is last thing have to say, as to say more would be going round in circles

OverMind

09-02-2009, 09:54 PM

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but no one's ever died from smoking marijuana. Ever.

AsteriskRocks

09-03-2009, 05:59 AM

I'd like to see someone accidentally set their house on fire with a joint...

I would laugh.

Turtlicious

09-03-2009, 01:16 PM

as a matter of fact I do smoke marijuana its gooooooooood stuff!

OverMind

09-03-2009, 09:26 PM

I'd like to see someone accidentally set their house on fire with a joint...

Well, if we're taking that approach, then refrigerators have killed more people than marijuana. [Source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/01/28/condo-fire.html].

But, of course, refrigerators are perfectly legal.

(Aren't you glad I'm back?)

OverMind

09-03-2009, 10:33 PM

No, I just think it'd be hilarious if someone set their house on fire with a joint and got burns all over their body, all because they were so baked that they stared at the colors of the fire as it engulfed them.

Indeed, third degree burns are comic gold.

PersianSpice

09-05-2009, 08:24 PM

I think that is called taking a statement too literally lol

It's true, though.

Ok, it looks like you do not want to read what I'm putting, so I will try one last time, in different way and then give up:-

If you drank a normal sized glass of <place own drink> a day, it would have little to no, negative effects depending on person.
Like you said yourself, if you had 1 weed a day, it would have several negative effects.

Weed is worse, not the worse drug going by any means, but worse than alcohol, it is just that poeple don't use it like that, A lot of poeple will drink a lot more than they use weed, this doesn't mean weed is better, it means it is not as abused as alcohol's is, in that way. However if you made it legal I suspect looking at it, there is good chance it would be.
Drinking alcohol everyday has more negative effects than weed, I'm certain.

This is something where you have to choose what to believe, if you wish to believe no negative effects, I cannot stop you, I just hope you don't live to regret that
It's not a belief, it's fact. I haven't seen compelling proof of it otherwise.

As well as not being sure what hope to prove here, I have to say that I think you must be making a joking here, as you don't seem like kind of person who would normally make such silly comment. Yes we have crime, are we worse county in world for crime? Statistically no, but then statistic's are flawed here anyway, as depends what you see as crime and lot of others things.....etc

And this is all moot point, as nothing to do with what I was saying, I'm on about fact that UK has shown that making weed more legal isn't always the answer and if you feel that USA is going to be more responsible, well that is tech impossible to say, but I wouldn't count on it.
I recall talking to someone saying the UK has a bad crime rate. Never said it was the "worst in the world" (don't even know where you got that from).

My point was that if you give a weed to a trouble society wouldn't they easily abuse it, as with any drug?

Again, if you wish to look at it all as small thing, that is your choice, I just hope you don't live to regret it.
What small thing? Smoking is a responsibility that I take very seriously. If it was some "small thing" I wouldn't be here right now.

Sometimes a flashy site doesn't make the research on it, anymore valid, just makes more appealing to eye and so poeple feel it is more valid. And just because the person funding it isn't government, doesn't mean they don't have own aims and agenda's to push forward, IE that smoking example, it was smoking companies who published their results not government.
What agenda? Make something legal? What could they possibly gain from saying marijuana isn't bad?

Well like I said he was hardly conclusive, but an example of what it can do and not to believe these poeple who tell you it is harmless, it may not be worse thing out there, but isn't good ether. (and as far as I know, he has never smoked cig, however that is only far as I know)

I feel not about down grading Weed, but upgrading cigs and alcohol and So that is last thing have to say, as to say more would be going round in circles
Alrighty then.

MrsSallyBakura

09-05-2009, 10:47 PM

Drinking alcohol everyday has more negative effects than weed, I'm certain.

http://www.ynhh.org/online/nutrition/advisor/red_wine.html

Just thought that I'd throw that out there.

Turtlicious

09-06-2009, 01:44 AM

As a matter of fact I do smoke marijuana its goooooodd stuff!!!!!

mystra

09-06-2009, 10:42 PM

...GET A JOB, YOU DRUGGED UP COMMUNISTS! >:V

the commies get drunk the hippies get drugged.....get it right =D

Kanariya674

09-09-2009, 03:39 PM

And it's just so good for the kids. ><

Through the years, from when I was 8 and up, my parents let me take sips of alcohol, whether it be beer or wine. I don't think you want your kids to take hits of marijuana when their brains are still early in developing.

There's difference between a hit and a sip. If marijuana were legalized, I bet some children would face more problems from that than alcohol.

Just putting that out there. Humans love to abuse resources.

Seraphim

09-10-2009, 05:01 AM

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but no one's ever died from smoking marijuana. Ever.

No one's ever died from it directly.

Annesthetize

11-10-2009, 10:41 AM

Ishikawa Oshro

11-11-2009, 10:14 AM

Let's look at it from another direction.
I'm from the Netherlands. So naturally, weed is legal here. We have things called 'coffee shops', where you can buy said weed. In these coffee shops, you can buy a maximum of5 grams a day, for about 50 euros. (about 65 dollars) You have to be 18 years to buy it.
With weed legalized in Holland, you'd expect user percentages to be a high average. However, this isn't the case. 5.4% of Dutch adults have used cannabis, compared to a 6.8% average of whole Europe.
Another good thing is; because we can buy weed legally in a shop, we don't have nearly as much problems with drugdealers, as opposed to, for example, America.

So, my conclusion is, legalizing weed isn't a bad idea, at least in Holland it turned out pretty well, imo.

thats ridicolous lolz. Obviously you netherlanders settle for less and are content with it.

But I highly sure any person whos quite familiar with the pricing for weed is gonna pay 65 dollars for some at a coffee shop. And 5 grams no less >.> thats outrageous.

you can pay just $20 for about 2-2.5 grams on the streets. Sometimes cheeper if the seller wants to make some quick cash. In your cases your overpaying by abour $30 Seeing as the your usual pay loss is $20 but with us getting that extra .5 in your losing out on that 10 bucks. and for another 30 you can get another 3.5 grams. So in jist your being jipped.

Legalizing weed is a bigger affair only for the reasons of how to best utilize on profiting and competition. I have no argument that it wont be legalized because its already in the process. The question now is how to increase the need in the market for it??? And how to keep the street sellers from selling cheaper. because its only sold for a high price because it a dangerous buisness. the less risky it becomes the cheaper drug dealers can sell it. Meaning once again the states are gonna have to compete.

AllisonWalker

11-11-2009, 05:35 PM

No one's ever died from it directly.

This.

OverMind

11-11-2009, 06:15 PM

No one's ever died from it directly.

In that case, we should ban cheese because it raises cholesterol levels thereby indirectly causing heart attacks.

As an aside, I will be greatly impressed with the first person who can name that movie reference.

AllisonWalker

11-11-2009, 06:19 PM

Cheese isn't a hallucinogen.

OverMind

11-11-2009, 06:28 PM

Cheese isn't a hallucinogen.

Oh well, in that case, if we're going to ban everything that could potentially cause a hallucination, we've definitely got to ban at least some medications (http://www.ehow.com/about_5390930_prescription-drugs-can-cause-hallucinations.html).

Finding it hard to draw the line now, are we?

AllisonWalker

11-11-2009, 06:49 PM

Oh well, in that case, if we're going to ban everything that could potentially cause a hallucination, we've definitely got to ban at least some medications (http://www.ehow.com/about_5390930_prescription-drugs-can-cause-hallucinations.html).

Finding it hard to draw the line now, are we?

There's nothing wrong with getting a presciption from a doctor that will help you, not getting high just because.

OverMind

11-11-2009, 06:56 PM

There's nothing wrong with getting a presciption from a doctor that will help you, not getting high just because.

*Choo-Choo* Here comes the contradiction train, last stop is you.

Do you object to a doctor prescribing marijuana to a patient, even though he will get high off it?

AllisonWalker

11-11-2009, 06:57 PM

No. I've had to take vicodin after getting my wisdom teeth out.

Seraphim

11-13-2009, 02:37 AM

In that case, we should ban cheese because it raises cholesterol levels thereby indirectly causing heart attacks.

As an aside, I will be greatly impressed with the first person who can name that movie reference.

You know full well that I did not mean of deaths as disassociated from their cause as your example.

Also, I'm not against marijuana entirely. I don't like its use as a recreational drug. Though I'm entirely for it to be used for medical purposes. I heard of stories from firsthand accounts and from other sources where marijuana helped ease the pain of a terminal illness.

OverMind

11-13-2009, 08:24 AM

You know full well that I did not mean of deaths as disassociated from their cause as your example.

That's all fine and dandy, but a vague inference is not very convincing to me. But, since you're so adamant, perhaps you can provide a specific example of what you mean.

Also, I'm not against marijuana entirely. I don't like its use as a recreational drug.

I don't like that other people drink alcohol. In fact, I've never had a drink in my life. However, I'm not one to force my beliefs on them. How is this any different?

Sounnga

12-06-2009, 03:24 PM

Marijuana should be illegal in large quantities such as 15+ grams.
Moderate dosages (6-10g) should be means for a warning, and small dosages (<5g) should be treated like cigarettes.

MrsSallyBakura

12-06-2009, 04:34 PM

Marijuana should be illegal in large quantities such as 15+ grams.
Moderate dosages (6-10g) should be means for a warning, and small dosages (<5g) should be treated like cigarettes.

That's a lot of moderation required for a drug, I think. Doesn't the quantity of how much you smoke and how likely it is to get you really high depend on the individual?

OverMind

12-06-2009, 04:47 PM

Easetle09

12-13-2009, 06:09 AM

I dony blame the average joe at all,Wankers i mean bankers knew what they were at.
I just cant see why a bank wouldnt accept ?500 a month instead of ?750 and stretched it over say x amount of years longer,im not big on all things money but surely half a loaf is better than no bread.

Underling

12-29-2009, 03:21 AM

Well geez, I would love to try some but tragically I'm a total shut-in, and I would assume most methods of acquisition require some degree of human contact.

Eia

12-29-2009, 03:27 AM

Well geez, I would love to try some but tragically I'm a total shut-in, and I would assume most methods of acquisition require some degree of human contact.

Order some seeds and grow your own?

Underling

12-29-2009, 03:31 AM

Order some seeds and grow your own?

THAT SOUNDS TOO MUCH LIKE HARD WORK DAMMIT

Spoofs3

12-29-2009, 02:33 PM

THAT SOUNDS TOO MUCH LIKE HARD WORK DAMMIT

In that case order your own fully grown!
Might get you in a bit of trouble, But if it works it would be worth it :S

Aninamar

12-30-2009, 04:09 PM

I'm epically conservative.
Trolling is basically what Slavs do (like Russians. Russians are trying to ban gas supplies to the West.), which is very conservative.
Smoking weed isn't.
Especially from some pesky drug dealers. I have no idea what the hell is he really "selling", no?

I prefer sniffing washing machine powder. And on one party, we drank Sobieski and smoked tea.

Spoofs3

12-30-2009, 04:34 PM

Well then, I must be the opposition because I am extremely liberal and have to say, The hell does Russia have to do with Smoking weed? �_�
Either way, Weed is good, just don't support the dealers.
Treat yourself to a nice weekend in Amsterdam and sit back and enjoy feeling

ChaosVincent1

12-30-2009, 08:43 PM

...ugh

They had prescription treatments that were marijuanna with the THC taken out so you don't get high. Same painkilling properties, just didn't get anyone high. IT ALL WENT BAD!!!

therefore, the people who support legalizing it aren't REALLY concerned about the painkilling part. They just want to get high.

My solution: Try making that stuff that went bad on shelves again, in lower quantities as not to lose as much money if it happens again. Make it more publicly known than before, and if that batch goes bad, the painkiller excuse will go right out the window.

crack

01-04-2010, 04:41 PM

Alcohol ruins millions of lives. Tobacco is the single most cause of premature deaths worldwide. Marijuana makes you hungry and giggly.

Makes perfect sense that marijuana is illegal.

crack

01-04-2010, 07:54 PM

My point is, marijuana has less risks than alcohol and tobacco, but the fact that it's still illegal makes one wonder why alcohol and tobacco are.

ThePRPD

01-04-2010, 09:29 PM

Tobacco is a good stress releaser in high-stress situations.

Let's not forget highly addictive and all that jazz.

AllisonWalker

01-04-2010, 09:59 PM

Mouth cancer! D:

MrsSallyBakura

01-05-2010, 02:53 AM

My point is, marijuana has less risks than alcohol and tobacco, but the fact that it's still illegal makes one wonder why alcohol and tobacco are.

They tried making alcohol illegal once. That... didn't bode over very well.

Tobacco can't be illegal because it is so integral to the way our economy runs and such. I don't know the specifics behind this but I know that making it illegal would still be... not practical in any sense.

At least there's still some control with marijuana. I think that people want to make as few drugs as possible legal. Alcohol and tobacco are simply impractical to make illegal, and that's essentially why they aren't.

Fenrir502

01-05-2010, 03:19 AM

Because everyone knows minors never drink. Or smoke. XD

Fat1Fared

01-05-2010, 07:15 AM

They tried making alcohol illegal once. That... didn't bode over very well.

Tobacco can't be illegal because it is so integral to the way our economy runs and such. I don't know the specifics behind this but I know that making it illegal would still be... not practical in any sense.

At least there's still some control with marijuana. I think that people want to make as few drugs as possible legal. Alcohol and tobacco are simply impractical to make illegal, and that's essentially why they aren't.

I sort of tried to make point like this, the whole agrument, well Smokes and Drink are legal, so weed should be as well is about logical as saying, Obrama is ok choice for Noble prize, because he isn't Bush
=Fact is, its not that Weed should be legal, because other are, it should the others should be illegal, because weed is, however sadly drink and smoke have been ingrained into our societies for hundreds of years, while weed has always been there, but on much smaller scale and so weed is easier to ban (but even that mostly fails,) the others simply ain't, because as when America banned drink, it doesn't work, because everyone uses it and it has become an engrained part of our world.

-Basically, not saying weed isn't victem of double standards, as it is, but that doesn't justife the action weed users want

=And with the whole Weed is harmless, no it isn't, it just not that bad neither

Fat1Fared

01-05-2010, 09:12 AM

yes, as Police are clearly, great sources of medical knowledge, clearly knows far more than a Psychiatric Nurse who works with drug abusers <facepalm>

-Weed does cause Psychsoctise effects such as Depression, paranoia and other such things
=It also has physical effects on breathing and lungs, and causes bad teeth (ok last one is joke, but still)

-The fact is, there more than few problems with Weed, the problem is that, these are mostly on same level as with drink and smoking, however, the main difference is use/amount:-
=Most weed users, use it about twice a week, meaning its effects are always going to be less notable than normal smoking, where are average, it is about 5-10 a day o_0
=And Drinkers normally take an average of 30-40 units a week (thats like 10-15 pints)
=Another thing is, most weed user stop after several years, while poeple generally drink/smoke from birth to death, again meaning the results are more notable

=However if weed became legal, then the very suspect studies into its effects would all go out the window, as its avability grew from easy to normal, its use/abuse grew as well and with that, would come its profound effects and it would be worse than ether of its legal bothers, as 1 joint a day will have about same effect physically on your health as 3-5 Cigarettes a day and mentally, there is no way to compare, as effects are different and subjective from person to person, but the mental effects for weed are conserquitually worse.

-Now with Drink, the physical effects are different but to mess your lungs and airways up, takes 1 joint a day for year...etc, however to mess up kidney�s and stomach with drink takes about 12 pints a day and with mental effects, again comparing it is hard, but you basically need to be a full alcoholic to get real negative effects after use with drink, while weed, can effect even its simi-users

=My point here is, weed is not better than these two, at best it is same, but in truth, it is worse and rather than legalizing weed, Governments are making the other 2 less exessable over time and there is reason for that And if weed did become legal, those studies most use to defend it, would go out window
-In England, Cigarettes are only about 1 level under Weed now, with legal rights on them

MrsSallyBakura

01-05-2010, 10:29 AM

But besides all of that, if the police are only really aware of the 'fact' that it's a gateway drug, that speaks wonders as to why they enforce the law.

Because the cop with whom you spoke isn't the brightest cop there ever was?

A cop's main job is to enforce the law. S/he doesn't necessarily need to understand every bit of it or remember every detail s/he was taught in the police academy. Fat1Fared is right in that a Psychiatric Nurse, for example, would know much more about the harmful side-effects of weed because that a larger, more involved part of his/her profession.

On another note:

And Drinkers normally take an average of 30-40 units a week (thats like 10-15 pints)

Holy crap, lol. I don't drink that much at all. :V

dukedevlin

01-05-2010, 07:42 PM

Because everyone knows minors never drink. Or smoke. XD

yer obviously not in my part of australia over here i am like the only one whos not a few a druged up drunk and smoking there way through school

PegasusJCrawford

01-12-2010, 10:48 PM

I tried weed for the first time ever last week...I don't see the big deal with it at all...I think the word drug scares people into thinking its sooo bad. If it alters your motoring functions I can see why it may be illegal.

Wow this is seriously the least passionate I've felt to argue on the serious discussion forums ever. xD

I'm just super neutral about this one lol.

Oh shiningradiance I've learned that some kids are very slow with sarcasm on the internet...its very sad...its my main sense of humor and its very disapointing when people take it seriously because then I have to explain it and thats never fun...

@duke
I used to be just like you a month ago...

RexNotCaesar

01-22-2010, 11:10 PM

My opinion? Sure, they can smoke their lungs black if they want. I really don't care about what they do to themselves.

BUT, I don't want them killing me because they can't freaking drive because they are so high.

WeirdoSpiral

02-06-2010, 09:42 PM

For those who oppose the legalization of Marijuana, go look up a documentary called The Union. Hopefully, it will cause you to reconsider your opinion.

Arkanoodles

02-06-2010, 09:47 PM

As long as you don't try to force it on the others, I have nothing against marijuana.

Alaska Slim

03-12-2010, 05:11 AM

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/AlaskaSlim/FoodPyramid.jpg

Alcohol, unlike Tobacco or Marijuana, has proven health benefits when consumed in moderation. Red wine itself has qualities good for the heart, and studies show (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050325222705.htm) it can significantly reduces risks of diseases associated with it.

Marijuana on the otherhand can barely be called "neutral", and since it impedes short term memory and motor skills, especially over prolonged use, I for one can't be convinced of even that much.

killshot

03-12-2010, 10:00 AM

That article points to something in the red wine being beneficial to the heart and not the alcohol itself. Alcohol has been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease if taken in moderation, but the damage to the liver negates any health benefits alcohol has on the body. You would be hard pressed to find a doctor that would recommend drinking alcohol to prevent heart disease.

Alaska Slim

03-12-2010, 03:13 PM

greymagick711

03-15-2010, 01:11 AM

Personally, I'm just a BIT against it. My friend had a real tough time trying to overcome addiction.

But that's really the problem with any drugs. There's just that hazard that this particular one is more addicting than others, I suppose, so that's why it's still illegal.

That, and I'm just a bit scared because, you know, people do crazy, and often dangerous, stuff with any type of substance.

Over winter break I worked in a lab (as an undergrad) with some rats and TCH. The results: a good number of them stopped eating and only took in the chemical. It was kinda weird; I mean, we didn't DO anything...they just opted to have the drug instead of the food, and kinda just starved to death. :/

Hm. So if it does become legal, I'll probably switch my major to law, haha. Probably be some intense cases.

But if people can come up with enough good points (like this thread does) to make it legal, it's whatever. Usually the decision to instill any law involves money. In these economic times, legalizing it will sure give it a boost.

History wise, wars have always gotten nations out of recessions/depressions. This actually sounds like more of safe alternative.

Well, I know I won't got back to it any time soon. I have other things on which to spend money. Like baby formula.

killshot

03-15-2010, 11:59 AM

Alcohol taken in moderation is no more detrimental to the liver then all the other crap the liver filters through, sodium, fumes from aerosol sprays, over the counter drugs, and even excess vitamin A and D.

And as to doctors who would recommend this (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/now/aug24/), where do you think I got the food pyramid?

This is taken from the American Heart Association:

How alcohol or wine affects cardiovascular risk merits further research, but right now the American Heart Association does not recommend drinking wine or any other form of alcohol to gain these potential benefits. The AHA does recommend that to reduce your risk you should talk to your doctor about lowering your cholesterol and blood pressure, controlling your weight, getting enough physical activity and following a healthy diet. There is no scientific proof that drinking wine or any other alcoholic beverage can replace these conventional measures.

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4422

Maybe I missed it, but didn't see anything about recommending alcohol. It was beside the pyramid, but even red meat, butter, and soda were still included on it. Alcohol, along with the aforementioned food items, was listed with the stipulation that it should only be consumed in moderation. No where on the link you gave suggested it should be consumed for health benefits.

killshot

03-15-2010, 12:19 PM

Over winter break I worked in a lab (as an undergrad) with some rats and TCH. The results: a good number of them stopped eating and only took in the chemical. It was kinda weird; I mean, we didn't DO anything...they just opted to have the drug instead of the food, and kinda just starved to death. :/
.

What kind of conditions did the rats have to live in? I heard about a study (I forget where, but I could probably find it again if someone twisted my arm) where the rats choice of drugs or food depends on what kind of environment they are forced to live in. The original drugs vs. food experiment was conducted with rats living in cramped cages and poor conditions. These rats chose the chemical. However, a more recent study was conducted with rats living in more spacious environments and these rats had little interest in the chemical. The conclusion was that happier rats had no need for the drug.

The same kind of conclusion can be drawn with people. People who feel trapped and aren't happy with their life are more likely to turn to drugs. It usually isn't any fault of the person what conditions they have to live in, so it really isn't fair to criminalize people who turn to drugs. Instead of wasting taxpayer money on catching drug users, that money could be going to improve the living conditions of areas with a high percentage of drug use.

greymagick711

03-16-2010, 12:04 AM

Two rats were held in 14" X 24" X 12" cages each. I never had a pet rat before, but I'd say that the crates were pretty standard, minus toys and such.
The thing with research is, you can find some experiment out there to support one argument, but you can find an equally credited conduct supporting the opposite.

I don't doubt that environmental conditions influence the behavior of the rats. It also seems plausible that the content rats would have more control over their chemical/food consumption ratio.

Perhaps, however, it would be more worthwhile to use the taxpayer money instill programs that help improve the self esteem of said "trapped" people as well as improve their living conditions. In addition, plenty of perfectly happy people use the drug.

The problem, here, is not the consumption of the drug, but the risk of abuse. If it does become legal, money would have to go into programs used to educate people on how much is decent. It's the overdoses that make permanent, detrimental effects on the body. (Which really could be said about any drug.)

It usually isn't any fault of the person what conditions they have to live in, so it really isn't fair to criminalize people who turn to drugs.

That is a determinist way of thinking, and there's nobody out there to argue on the way you think. My personal opinion is that though the environment poses a great external, circumstantial, and social influence on people, there is always a choice.

If people were able to control consumption and behave in public when high, then maybe it would be legal. The problem is, the higher-ups are too scared of the stupid users--the ones that might attribute to the proposed increase in accidents if it's legal.

Fat1Fared

03-16-2010, 09:03 AM

The same kind of conclusion can be drawn with people. People who feel trapped and aren't happy with their life are more likely to turn to drugs. It usually isn't any fault of the person what conditions they have to live in, so it really isn't fair to criminalize people who turn to drugs. Instead of wasting taxpayer money on catching drug users, that money could be going to improve the living conditions of areas with a high percentage of drug use.

-Well the problem with this is, it is slightly too deterministic as stated above, but also it is board as it fails to consider what drugs we are actually looking at, what culture we are placing it in and generally all the ranger of variables which accounting for when making such statments,

IE, I cannot remember the exact stat, but in Britain something like 68% of poeple have taken weed at least once in their life and something like 64% of continual users are University students (so far removed being involved in bad side of life, they generally have about good a life as this world can offer)

-I think the thing with drugs is that there are clear double standards within the law and their use, but though generally I believe in free choice and emancipation, I do think that this area is one which follows the same pattern as most because of the way drugs fundamentally change poeple, both short and long term/ physical and mentally.

-Currently Britain is facing a massive use of the "legal" drug known among its users as bubble love and to the rest of the world as Methadrone, now this is actually a plant food, so do not ask me who/why someone decided to stick it in their noise, but they did and it now most popular drug on offer, because it has even more profound effects than coke, while being lot a less addictive and so far the only real known problem with it, is if you are a man, your little commando may not want fight any battles for a night or two. Now I have been told by drug users, (for legal purposes, I am not a drug user (other than alcoholic based ones and even that seems to be lessening by day, damn tax) and do not hang around with them during their illicit acts, but this does not stop me knowing some) that this drug is far more potent than coke and weed put together, yet it must then be asked, why it is legal?
=Simple because until this year, it was barely known about and so no one cared, now to me this should be illegal, but it is not and what it does prove is that poeple like to use drugs and care little for the health problems (which scientists are not predicting this drug will have few of once years fast forward) and yet though I maybe against it and agree with their status to point I think drugs should be more should be illegal not less, the general world disagrees with me and believe it would more effective to legalize it and then see what happens that way, however the reason I cannot accept this, is simply because if poeple can barely be trusted with beer, what chance do they stand with other, the problems of bubble love are starting to poke through and it will be interesting to see what it results are and whether me or these users turn out to be right

killshot

03-16-2010, 12:30 PM

That is a determinist way of thinking, and there's nobody out there to argue on the way you think. My personal opinion is that though the environment poses a great external, circumstantial, and social influence on people, there is always a choice.

I fully admit that this is a deterministic way of thinking, but the world is a little deterministic so I don't see the problem. Of course there is always a choice, but in some cases its a choice between a life of unhappiness and the escapism that drugs can provide. I'm not saying drugs are the correct choice, but you can hardly blame someone for wanting to get away from a crappy life. People can't choose what kind of life they are born into. If they are lucky they might be able to change their environment if they are unhappy with it, but sometimes people just get stuck where they are.

Genes are another factor that contribute to drug use and cannot be controlled. Studies (http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000174/CH170.html) have pointed to genes that influence whether or not a person is predisposed to drug use. You can't possibly argue that people have a choice in which genes they receive.

To top it all off, cultures around the world have a long history of drug use. This would indicate to me that humans are predisposed to drug use of some kind. The ethics involving drugs is a relatively recent thing. The Native Americans never argued over whether or not smoking the peace pipe was morally justified. It was simply customary. I realize that there is a difference between customs involving drugs use and drug abusers today, but it would be foolish to ignore the long history of drug use by humans.

So if some people are predisposed to using drugs, whether it be through genetics, their environment, tradition, or a combination of the three, what sense does it make to judge everyone by the same standards?

greymagick711

03-16-2010, 05:06 PM

Genes are another factor that contribute to drug use and cannot be controlled. Studies have pointed to genes that influence whether or not a person is predisposed to drug use. You can't possibly argue that people have a choice in which genes they receive.

Epigenics (http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297(10)00087-X) states that there are ways for the environment to regulate the tuning on/off of certain genes. [Warning: not everyone has access to linked article.] A person's lifestyle literally changes which genes are expressed. In the case of drugs, it is how much susceptibility to an effect of a drug they might experience. There are specific sites on genes that are triggered by environmental factors. How many sites there are per nucleotides are determined by the parents.

But once again, the lifestyle of the individual can combat whether those sequences are more frequently transcribed or not. If the person remains in an environment in which is pretty crappy and does not change his/her outlook, then yeah, it's just a violent, downward spiral.

I'm not saying drugs are the correct choice, but you can hardly blame someone for wanting to get away from a crappy life. People can't choose what kind of life they are born into

Oh, for sure. Indulgence in the drug isn't necessarily a bad thing--it's perfectly natural to want to feel the relaxing pleasure effect. The abuse comes from those stressed people that look to it for an escape. That's where the addiction occurs. There's no genes that really code for wanting a drug. People with more prominent genes that make a person more susceptible to stress are the ones that tend to be stressed, and may opt to use drugs to relieve themselves.

But going back to the environment and lifestyle--the activation of those genes are determined by external influences. Like you mentioned, they can't choose (nor can we) into what lifestyle into which they are born. So:
Instead of wasting taxpayer money on catching drug users, that money could be going to improve the living conditions of areas with a high percentage of drug use.
Yeah, that's a perfectly good idea. But the individual's own personal outlook, and the willingness to change his/her lifestyle, must also be taken into account.
The article you cited states that "Illicit drug use often begins in early teen years, peaks in the late teens and early twenties, and can decline substantially thereafter." Seems like programs in educating potential drug consequences specific to young adults will also need to be developed.

We have specific receptors for TCH in the brain--so I'd definitely would say there used to be some sort of evolutionary significance. In small dosages, it's fine and virtually harmless. But like anything that goes over the healthy limit do people start to experience the harmful effects. It's a drug--it really chemically alters the brain--and like any chemical, can cause permanent damage.

So if it does become legal--oh, you can be sure that I will buy some--hopefully some of the taxes on it will not only go to improve the living conditions in the areas with a high percentage of the population that abuses drugs, but also into some medicine that combats the detrimental damages it may cause in excess consumption.

Xanadu

03-16-2010, 09:21 PM

how many of you guys have actually smoked weed before?

Turtlicious

03-24-2010, 09:26 PM

I have a card...

its legal for me...

maisetofan

05-02-2010, 04:41 AM

i have tried it once, did not like it and do not wanna put on weight as it gives u the munchies big time
i know heaps of people who smoke it, friends from uni, work and my sisters

my argument is this, if cigarettes and alcohol are legal, why is pot illegal?
cigarettes contain many poisons and cause emphysema and i hear the death is painful

Alcohol has caused so many violent and drunken rages its not funny
my sister was arrested the other night for drunk and disorderly behavior and the level of violence has increased since the drinking age here was lowered

i am yet to meet a stoner who has started a violent fight or altercation with anyone

Anreyla

05-02-2010, 08:49 AM

I'm fairly neutral on the "marijuana" standpoint, myself. I've never actually used it, but I know quite a few people who have. So, basically, I don't use it, but I don't care if others do-- it's always been my person opinion that, so long as no one's harmed, feel free to do whatever the hell you please, so long as it's behind closed doors. Sure, some people will do stupid things-- hey, we had an incident a couple months ago where some idiot was smoking a joint on the school bus.. My head hurt for the rest of the day-- but that's an inevitable part of, well, anything. Marijuana impairs motor skills and short term memory? Yeah, and alcohol doesn't?

Marijuana is no worse than alcohol or tobacco, its effects aren't severe, it doesn't kill people, in and of itself, like alcohol and tobacco can, so what's the big deal?

maisetofan

05-02-2010, 06:18 PM

Marijuana impairs motor skills and short term memory? Yeah, and alcohol doesn't?

Marijuana is no worse than alcohol or tobacco, its effects aren't severe, it doesn't kill people, in and of itself, like alcohol and tobacco can, so what's the big deal?

AGREED
and thats my opinion, if alcohol and cigarettes are legal, why keep marijuana illegal?
alcohol does much more damage to ones brain cells, their kidneys and liver and the violence that erupts from drunken people is awful

i completely understand why drugs like meth and cocaine are illegal,they not only harm the body but people addicted to crystal meth are lethal and violent and paranoid, there are many cases here of deaths caused by people high on Crack, spank, ice whatever u call it but i am yet to hear of a marijuana inflicted murder, the only risk is suicide as marijuana is a depressant so paranoia and suicidal thoughts are frequent burt wait a second, alcohol is just as bad for depressive thoughts and suicidal tendencies.....

if alcohol was prohibited then yeah i would agree that WEED should be too but since alcohol is freely sold in liquor stores over here to people who are already intoxicated (stupid law) then why not make something that mellows people out and oddly enough causes less accidents that driving while talking on a mobile phone or texting does????

Turtlicious

05-02-2010, 06:28 PM

...

STORY TIME
my place was raided as in sirems in front of my house me being arrested raided They thought I was dealing...
Me and my roommates all have our cards and plants
so he sheer amount scared them
The officers refused to pay for damages and alot of personal Items were broken we were released the next day after a night in holding.

WTF!?

maisetofan

05-04-2010, 02:40 AM

hmm sounds like abuse of power or police brutality one of the two....
You were put in holding?
that would not happen over here....
Gosh I am scared of visiting america lol
Cops, the show puts me off, they arrested a man with literally a few crumbs or whatever you call it of weed, they arrested him on possession of Cannabis, I mean seriously....

HarleyThomas1002

05-04-2010, 03:33 AM

(Because repeating what others have said is awesome!)

It may be a tad bit difficult to keep under supervision, but leagalize it and tax the hell out of it like alcohol and tobacco (and tanning salons). The only thing that would be a problem is buying it from some guy living it in his van who cuts his product with drain-o or who the hell knows what.

While it does contain a shitload more tar than cigarettes it has been used for medical purposes and providing it isn't cut with anything so as someone from Holland said buy it from a government operated retail (I'm assuming that's how the 'coffee shop' works) and you're good to go. The more of those there are the less there will be of someone in a van selling it.

Overdosing is extremely difficult as if you try you'll "green out" (I have no idea what that means I just got that term from an avid pot smoker I know) long before you overdose.

As for getting the munchies it'll throw some extra money into other industries such as snack foods.

Fat1Fared

05-04-2010, 05:39 AM

Ok, I think that is time we have a reality check in this thread:-

1=No is lying that weed is victim of double standards in law, (whether that means to ban alcoholic drinks or legalize weed is another question altogether though)

2=Why is weed banned and Drink/cigarette not? Simple 3 answers
i) Drink has been a core foundation of our societies for thousands of years, because was always used as tasty substitute for unhealthy water, until things like tea and coffee took it home and it got moved a moved party drink. Though tobacco is only few hundred years, still there and engrained, weed is pretty new and came in a time of neo-conversationalist (which was going to doubly screw it, when its leftovers could be used as cheap wood chippings, which none of wood manufactures wanted)

ii) Way it is used also has massive impact on consideration, the reason drink is so good for tax is that it takes a lot of it to get you truly intoxicated and more you have the move animated you become. This means people who are drunk normally don't think things through and a spend lot of money, because they buy lot of drink, lot of food and go into a lot of expensive clubs, while when use weed, mostly zone out on some kind of hippy chair in a living in suburbs of city, (Trust me on this, it is cheaper to use most low level drugs than is to drink.)
-So it means taxing it would lose nightclubs, bars and late night fast-food places, lots of money (well maybe foodstores would be least effected, but still lose lot as more likely to rain home than go down street to fastfood place)
-With cigarettes, their mental effects are so subtle that can be used anywhere and any time, so do not need this consideration and so what does government care if you die at 60, to be honest by that point your most likely to be up for retirement in few years anyway, which means going to cost them lot of money whatever happens and so their happy for you to bump yourself straight off for them, while paying them a hell of lot of money in possess, because trust me, the amount they make in taxes and save in not having to pay a pension or long term medical care is massive compared to small amount lose keeping you in a ward for few years, which likely to be in anyway come another 10-15 years.

iii) Finally, drink is pretty hard to actually make (and i mean a drink which you sell because want to drink it) weed is very easy to grow and cultivate and we all know that if could get it cheaper, then 90% of us will, so this will not really even put a dent in the underground trade as very easy produce and undercut the legal market as even some tit in his student flat could grow it and be dealer
=Also people kept bringing up Amsterdam, note that place has massively up-graded it laws lately, so almost same laws as England, only real difference now is, you can have license to grow and sell it, but lot less area's and places able to do it now and those who break it, now suffer similar consequences to that receive in England, PS no not government ran, not sure where that came from,
-also note the massive raise of abuse of this drug occurred in england at same time as when declassified it, something are thinking of reverting because of unforseen problems with came making it class c,
=weed and law simply do not mix

3=How does that leave us? It leaves us in limbo, no one is denying that, because we have laws in effect which society as whole disagrees with them and make them completely unenforceable in real world (well other than conservative daily meal and guardern readers who hate everything) =But does removing that law work any better, not really because government can only lose things removing it and with way our society works, gain very little, the only way this could have worked is if these ideals were popular ones before we ever even banned the stuff, so them this limbo we are in, is comprise, the weed users stick to edges of society by making sure keep in home and we will leave you alone, if you get cocky and start trying to open about use, will have to bust for sake of public policy

FreakAzoid

05-04-2010, 10:29 PM

Light it up and take a puff and listen to yourself WHEEZE

KingOfTheRubberDucks

05-17-2010, 05:22 PM

TitanAura

05-17-2010, 06:56 PM

I know several people like myself, one of whom was one of my teachers and his wife, who have never touched an illegal substance in our lifetimes but still fundamentally believe that people have the right to do so if they choose to.

maisetofan

05-17-2010, 08:54 PM

In my why the fuck should government be able to tell you what you can do to your body as long as your not harming other what business is it of theirs. Another thing surely it is about self control, as with any form of drug legal or other wise. In this sense i mean that if you smoke cannabis like you breath the air around you yh your gonna have problem but that goes for everything, heck you can cause your self serious damage if you drink to much water.

Exactly
too much junk food can kill you
Pepsi and coca cola rot your guts and overuse of Artificially sweetened drinks and foods can lead to cancer due to the aspartame/phenylalanine
But thats okay, in fact they sell diet drinks in hospital as normal sugary drinks are bad

You can buy pain killers off the shelf at supermarkets and over eat until you are too fat to leave your house, and are stuck inside on a bed and they need a crane to lift you out, look at all those documentaries on obesity

Where are the laws for that?

Money is made on food and drink and pain killers, alcohol and cigarettes
Surely there is profit to be had with Weed too?

Its different with cocaine and illicit drugs that harm people severely but prescription drugs are legal and can have more dangerous side effects than marijuana i know i have been on them from my doctor :/

HarleyThomas1002

06-06-2010, 01:23 AM

Marijuana is profitable. Just ask Amsterdam.

BryyMiller

06-06-2010, 02:10 AM

HarleyThomas1002

06-06-2010, 02:26 AM

.... is this seriously a serious fucking topic?

They've proven marijuana kills brain cells so long as you don't breathe.

Gamemaster300

06-06-2010, 11:20 AM

Harley, are you sure you didn't get some words mixed up??

Kanap

06-06-2010, 02:56 PM

no no he has them in the right order.

Ostinato

06-06-2010, 07:55 PM

They've proven marijuana kills brain cells so long as you don't breathe.

I don't know what you mean by "so long as you don't breathe." Maybe you're trying to be sarcastic or something?

Regardless, a simple google search will show you that marijuana does not kill brain cells. It's just not toxic enough.

I'm more inclined to say that any harm that can come from marijuana is not from the drug itself, but from the temporary impaired thinking that results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDVmgUeFkE0
(On a side note, I can't figure out how to embed youtube videos...)

Ninjasplaycardgames2

06-06-2010, 07:56 PM

it's bad

HarleyThomas1002

06-06-2010, 08:42 PM

I don't know what you mean by "so long as you don't breathe." Maybe you're trying to be sarcastic or something?

Regardless, a simple google search will show you that marijuana does not kill brain cells. It's just not toxic enough.

I'm more inclined to say that any harm that can come from marijuana is not from the drug itself, but from the temporary impaired thinking that results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDVmgUeFkE0
(On a side note, I can't figure out how to embed youtube videos...)

I was being sarcastic.

MrsSallyBakura

06-06-2010, 09:17 PM

.... is this seriously a serious fucking topic?

It's more serious than most of the topics in this subforum, unfortunately.

HarleyThomas1002

06-06-2010, 09:23 PM

That's embarrassing.

Ostinato

06-06-2010, 09:27 PM

I was being sarcastic.

I still don't get the sarcasm, but as long as we agree that marijuana doesn't kill brain cells I'm good.

it's bad

While I agree that it's not the best thing to ingest, there's a lot of other things that are worst, but legal, which people consume. So, yeah, it's "bad", but "bad" defines a whole slew of industries that are particularly successful. People know tobacco, fast food, and alcohol are "bad" but the companies that produce the stuff are booming. So, what does that tell you about people?

I'm also of the opinion that the government should focus on trying to be a better financial advisor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt) before trying to be my babysitter. Also, some anger management (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War) counseling wouldn't hurt either.

greymagick711

06-06-2010, 11:46 PM

Ostinato

06-07-2010, 12:29 AM

Then why put another 'bad' substance on the market in additionto all the worse substances already there?

Among all the terrible illegal things out there, it's true marijuana is definitely not the worst. But compared to the more easily available substances, it has a greater effect in smaller quantities. The market just doesn't need another 'bad' substance.

It's already on the market ... the black market, that is. Simply outlawing marijuana doesn't make it disappear. If people want something, they'll find ways of obtaining it illegally.

However, if you legalize it, you take the control of the market out of the hands of criminals and place it with the government. If the government was a bit more generous, they'd pass on such control to the free market and let corporations fight over it.

...I don't like saying that it's bad, but I don't see it's potential of ever being good. It's just bad in overdoes, which is what people do naturally. People don't generally have the brain power to keep their craving for a drug in check, so it will never be used in moderation (which is okay for substance), unless prescribed (but even then, they tend overdose).

I find this odd. Of all the drugs I know about, marijuana has shown the most promise of doing "good" - recreational abuse aside. Everyone knows about medicinal marijuana, but who smokes cigarettes for medicinal purposes?

greymagick711

06-08-2010, 04:09 PM

It's the nature of the addictiveness that makes it so dangerous--the cravings that people feel when not consuming it, their obsession of this plant to compensate for something. In that respect, though less immediate harmful effects than say, cigarettes on the respiratory system, it much more potent.

But then again, what's wrong with feeling good, even the drug induced feeling of pleasure? Nothing. It's the how strong it addictiveness is.

Cigarettes and alcohol don't have that ability that marjiuana has to completely take over and prevent someone to become disinterested in food, in moving around, in sex. They don't have the ability to induce so quickly and hard a high like it does, either--such an altered state that it completely incapacitates the user with minimal dosage.

This drug is strong. But like you said, it has its medicinal uses as well. It's well used for bringing calm and relief to patients, to whom it is necessary. Though I would prefer using it, as opposed to synthetic drugs, to kill pain. All the other lay-users use it, but not for medical purposes--people who might be perfectly fine, yet want to feel even better just because.

On second thought, perhaps there is something wrong with said people to begin with. A well-balanced person should not need nor want the drug in the first place. It would just be waste.

Even if the government controls the marijuana, why would the gangs stop? Most likely, the amount a person can purchase would be monitored. Maybe they'll tax the hell out of it to discourage purchase, I don't know. But no doubt, people would want more, and feel the need to obtain it illegally.

If something so incredible as marijuana and its properties is only available to those able to buy it--then there will be discord among those who can't afford.
If it's available to everyone, worst case scenario, we'll just have a stoned society unable to break out of their addiction.

It's perfectly fine as a medical drug, where it (hopefully) will be used only out of best intentions.

AdjacentOrigin

06-08-2010, 05:53 PM

Fat1Fared

06-08-2010, 06:42 PM

"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again." �Bill Clinton

Ah, Bill.

Anyways, I'm certain that many people can agree that marijuana can work wonders on the human body. But like all drugs should not be abused. It is my opinion that marijuana should be legalized for medicinal purposes along with other drugs with medical benefits. It certainly would alleviate the tax problem and release people who are in jail for rather victimless crimes.

=There is no such thing as victimless crime, but still that is whole other debate so lets not go into it lol,

=while ostinito's comment of such profound wisdom, managed to completely miss the point of everything grey was saying, I think grey is somewhat over playing the dangers of weed is same way, many under play them, because this is a nasty drug, especially if misused, however it is not worse thing we can do to our bodies.
-In regards to weed, the real problem with it, is that it is unpredictable, while there is any argument that its effects can be no worse than beer or smoking (already been done to death, so won't go into any further) their effects are generally predictable depending on how they are abused, while weed is far from predictable, their have been cases of poeple smoking less than few times and ending up in psychiatric wards because of it, while other cases of poeple who smoke it very day, having very little negative side-effects and certainly no worse than side-effects of smoking similar amount.

=However one thing must say is that this "medical" agrument is full of crap, medical studies show all these illnesses which use it, can be treated equally effective by a range of other painkillers, which all far more stable to use

=Next onto this whole tax argument, well already explained why economically it is bad, but someone brought up Amsterdam, oh yes Amsterdam, well first Amsterdam is no where near as weed legal as may think and two, the reason it works in Amsterdam is because of three things:

1=Amsterdam simply has most liberal culture their is and so its poeple will work to make this work, something unlikely to happen in other cultures

2=Amsterdam is very small place, meaning control and regulation is far more practical there than would be in places like US

3=Amsterdam makes money out of weed because it is basically only place anyone would go to, where it is legal and so makes lot out of tourism that way, the money its makes would substantially less if lots of other countries had legalised weed

AdjacentOrigin

06-08-2010, 07:27 PM

There is no such thing as victimless crime, but still that is whole other debate so lets not go into it lol,
True. However, the personal, private, and conservative use of marijuana doesn't generally cause death or corporal harm to oneself or other people. Unless you extrapolate it beyond that to people killing for marijuana but that could apply to bascially everything so there's no point.

However one thing must say is that this "medical" agrument is full of crap, medical studies show all these illnesses which use it, can be treated equally effective by a range of other painkillers, which all far more stable to use
People can get addicted to painkillers too you know.
Obviously, marijuana shouldn't be used exclusively all the time but it must be noted that medicinal marijuana doesn't just treat pain, but also a whole host of other issues including chronic depression, nausea, and multiple sclerosis. It's true that more research needs to be done but it's wrong to dismiss the whole thing as there are well documented benefits to marijuana use for certain conditions.

Fat1Fared

06-08-2010, 08:25 PM

True. However, the personal, private, and conservative use of marijuana doesn't generally cause death or corporal harm to oneself or other people. Unless you extrapolate it beyond that to people killing for marijuana but that could apply to bascially everything so there's no point.

=Well like said, whole other debate, but it is one of those arguments I am vary of, like the argument of necessary

People can get addicted to painkillers too you know.
Obviously, marijuana shouldn't be used exclusively all the time but it must be noted that medicinal marijuana doesn't just treat pain, but also a whole host of other issues including chronic depression, nausea, and multiple sclerosis. It's true that more research needs to be done but it's wrong to dismiss the whole thing as there are well documented benefits to marijuana use for certain conditions.

=I was not actually on about addiction, because sadly for any drug that is problem and weed is probably less addictive than certain painkillers as the addiction is mental one, however it is the other problems which I am on about, most of these painkillers have lot less side effects, both in the present and future based considerations, as for my point, well you sort of brought it up perfectly, it doesn't "treat" anything, it merely covers it up, now admittedly in certain area's that is currently all we can do, but taking the 3 examples you brought up:-

1=chronic depression=well most will know my opinion in general, in regards to drugs for mental illness, and here weed is worst thing use, as its effect my balance you out when on high, but that then leaves you far worse off once effects disappear, because leaves mental and emotional state even less balanced and more dependant on drugs to keep self "stable" and though I am sure some would love to spend whole life stoned, you simply cannot live a productive life that way.

2=Nausea=Well admit, not sure know much about what on about here, however it would have to be pretty serious "nausea" to make think justifies using weed

3= scoliosis=While this one does have some justification, Like said are other drugs available which more suitable to the task

Seraphim

06-09-2010, 04:50 AM

=I was not actually on about addiction, because sadly for any drug that is problem and weed is probably less addictive than certain painkillers as the addiction is mental one, however it is the other problems which I am on about, most of these painkillers have lot less side effects, both in the present and future based considerations, as for my point, well you sort of brought it up perfectly, it doesn't "treat" anything, it merely covers it up, now admittedly in certain area's that is currently all we can do, but taking the 3 examples you brought up:-

1=chronic depression=well most will know my opinion in general, in regards to drugs for mental illness, and here weed is worst thing use, as its effect my balance you out when on high, but that then leaves you far worse off once effects disappear, because leaves mental and emotional state even less balanced and more dependant on drugs to keep self "stable" and though I am sure some would love to spend whole life stoned, you simply cannot live a productive life that way.

2=Nausea=Well admit, not sure know much about what on about here, however it would have to be pretty serious "nausea" to make think justifies using weed

3= scoliosis=While this one does have some justification, Like said are other drugs available which more suitable to the task

I know I said I wouldn't comment on anything else that you post, but I can't resist.

There is no such thing as a "mental" addiction, only neurological ones. Addiction is caused when the brain suffers through repeated use of chemicals. It'll grow accustom to those chemical changes it goes through while under the influence of whatever chemical it is, actually creating a physical need for those changes (increased flow of endorphins being one of them). Thus, the person who abuses whatever this drug is feels ill, feeling much like when they are starving of nutrients.

Another illness where marijuana helps the person is with cancer.

Fat1Fared

06-09-2010, 05:14 AM

I know I said I wouldn't comment on anything else that you post, but I can't resist.

There is no such thing as a "mental" addiction, only neurological ones. Addiction is caused when the brain suffers through repeated use of chemicals. It'll grow accustom to those chemical changes it goes through while under the influence of whatever chemical it is, actually creating a physical need for those changes (increased flow of endorphins being one of them). Thus, the person who abuses whatever this drug is feels ill, feeling much like when they are starving of nutrients.

Another illness where marijuana helps the person is with cancer.

=While I am sure you feel very clever and though I will give credit, yes mental addict is not wholly perfect way of explaining it, I couldn't be bothered to try and spell the actual term properly, so I went for imperfect description, however your also completely wrong, there are many things people get addicted to, which have no physical effect on their mind to cause addiction, the addiction is completely within their own mind, this comes from many things and comes under many types, but the most common is simply things where poeple like the feeling so much that they to have it again and again and this eventually turns into a form of addiction. Weed works in this way, as weed is not like heroin or even smoking, it does not actually physically change your chimerical balance to make you addicted to it, which is why technically you don't get addicted to weed, but people had already moved past that bit and we all knew what kind of addiction we were on about, because some poeple do get form of addiction to weed

=Also Sera, don't try to take the moral ground of cancer, cancer is another which has several drugs that are far more effective and though I know you want me to get all beat up, because you said cancer, knowing cancer is one of worse things that happen to someone and so thought I may have to back track here, but I still don't agree. Who knows maybe one day my views will change, but at this time, I think the argument of weed as medical drug is ropey one.
-And though suspect many disagree with me (which fair enough, I personally am no medical expert) just something I believe

Seraphim

06-09-2010, 05:57 AM

=While I am sure you feel very clever and though I will give credit, yes mental addict is not wholly perfect way of explaining it, I couldn't be bothered to try and spell the actual term properly, so I went for imperfect description, however your also completely wrong, there are many things people get addicted to, which have no physical effect on their mind to cause addiction, the addiction is completely within their own mind, this comes from many things and comes under many types, but the most common is simply things where poeple like the feeling so much that they to have it again and again and this eventually turns into a form of addiction. Weed works in this way, as weed is not like heroin or even smoking, it does not actually physically change your chimerical balance to make you addicted to it, which is why technically you don't get addicted to weed, but people had already moved past that bit and we all knew what kind of addiction we were on about, because some poeple do get form of addiction to weed

=Also Sera, don't try to take the moral ground of cancer, cancer is another which has several drugs that are far more effective and though I know you want me to get all beat up, because you said cancer, knowing cancer is one of worse things that happen to someone and so thought I may have to back track here, but I still don't agree. Who knows maybe one day my views will change, but at this time, I think the argument of weed as medical drug is ropey one.
-And though suspect many disagree with me (which fair enough, I personally am no medical expert) just something I believe
Oh excuse me, I had not realized that marijuana stopped being a psychoactive drug that affects brain function. That is does not cause a change where the brain adapts to it, becomes more tolerant to its effects. That a person will not suffer any withdrawal symptoms at all. Also, I did not realize that behavioral addictions didn't include an addiction to a naturally made substance that exists in your body called endorphins. That endorphins weren't released when performing behavioral addictions, e.g. gambling.

I wasn't suggesting that marijuana could substitute all treatments of cancer, I meant that it could replace pain medication in some cases and used along with in some other cases. It certainly has less detrimental side-effect than most of the powerful pain medication that are opiate-based.

Fat1Fared

06-09-2010, 08:08 AM

Sera this is why i generally cannot be bothered to talk to you,

Oh excuse me, I had not realized that marijuana stopped being a psychoactive drug that affects brain function.

=I never said it wasn't this, I said its effects are ones which do not cause the bodily to physically crave the effects by physically changing way body works, it is mental craving, Jesus, if we want to get technical, chocolate is more addictive than weed on your idea of how addiction works

That is does not cause a change where the brain adapts to it, becomes more tolerant to its effects. That a person will not suffer any withdrawal symptoms at all.

=Again, the effects are mental ones, not physical, 99% of weed users can stop whenever they wish without any real problem (not real stat,) those get addicted not physically addicted, it doesn't change the physical chimerical balances or neurofines of the body in order to naturally make body crave more of it, the personally simply likes the effects so much they want more of it and become dependant that way

Also, I did not realize that behavioural addictions didn't include an addiction to a naturally made substance that exists in your body called endorphins. That endorphins weren't released when performing behavioural addictions, e.g. gambling.

=So what your saying is you agree with me?????
-Endorphins get released when you fight with someone and can cause people to get addicted to fighting, and that has nothing to do with drugs, my point being this is natural possess of the body, so it is completely different to taking chemicals into you which physically change the chemical possesses within your body and way body reacts to things, Jesus you even release Endorphins when on toilet, it is completely natural thing in your body which weed does not actually change the possess of and there is some evidence out there to say weed doesn't even cause release of Endorphins at all, making this completely moot -_-,

MrsSallyBakura

06-09-2010, 03:38 PM

Fat1Fared is right. People can be addicted to the Internet, pornography, video games, texting, TV, sex, etc.

Addiction works in more than one way, Seraphim. Yes there are neurological addictions and those are the ones that cause the most physical harm, but there are other types of addictions.

Spoofs3

06-09-2010, 04:42 PM

Fat1Fared is right. People can be addicted to the Internet, pornography, video games, texting, TV, sex, etc.

And I am addicted to such things 8D

Seraphim

06-10-2010, 03:06 AM

Most inappropriate use of emote ever. Addiction, of any kind, can become a life-threatening disease.

Seraphim

06-10-2010, 03:54 AM

=I never said it wasn't this, I said its effects are ones which do not cause the bodily to physically crave the effects by physically changing way body works, it is mental craving, Jesus, if we want to get technical, chocolate is more addictive than weed on your idea of how addiction worksI never said it's addictiveness is as severe as to chocolate or (to a much greater extent) heroin. These things actually have chemicals that directly influence the brain. Yes, even chocolate.

=Again, the effects are mental ones, not physical, 99% of weed users can stop whenever they wish without any real problem (not real stat,) those get addicted not physically addicted, it doesn't change the physical chimerical balances or neurofines of the body in order to naturally make body crave more of it, the personally simply likes the effects so much they want more of it and become dependant that wayLike I said before, it's addictive is not strong enough to work so quickly, but it is possible to become addicted to it. Especially through repeated use. It is certain people that can choose to not continue with there use of it that aren't affected. Also, I wish to see a statistic that shows how many people used marijuana and then quit without ever using it again, those who quit, but then used it once more (doesn't matter however long or how many times), and those who never quit. I doubt those who quit forever are as close to 99%. Of course, any study done on marijuana seems to be to big of a taboo.

=So what your saying is you agree with me?????
-Endorphins get released when you fight with someone and can cause people to get addicted to fighting, and that has nothing to do with drugs, my point being this is natural possess of the body, so it is completely different to taking chemicals into you which physically change the chemical possesses within your body and way body reacts to things, Jesus you even release Endorphins when on toilet, it is completely natural thing in your body which weed does not actually change the possess of and there is some evidence out there to say weed doesn't even cause release of Endorphins at all, making this completely moot -_-,
I didn't say they're the main reason behind an addiction certain addictions, but the do assist it. Anyhow, there are many other chemicals released by the brain under the influence of a "drug" (be it an actual drug or not) that help an addiction to it. I was just saying one that came to mind. The psychology of a person also helps build an addiction. Let's say sex addiction. A common general cause behind it sometimes is an early exposure to sexual material, acts viewed, or assault. Of course, that does not make it definite that those will influence that person to become a sexual deviant, but it certainly assists.
Fat1Fared is right. People can be addicted to the Internet, pornography, video games, texting, TV, sex, etc.

Addiction works in more than one way, Seraphim. Yes there are neurological addictions and those are the ones that cause the most physical harm, but there are other types of addictions.
And I'm saying that technically there is only one kind of addiction because neurological addictions and behavioral ones eventually go hand-in-hand. With behavioral addictions, repeated use of their crutch causes a feeling of euphoria because of the endorphins and release of hormones. All kinds of addiction are just in different areas of the same scope, but with a different subject to it and effects on the person and their life. But no matter what the subject of the addiction is, it is still an addiction. No matter what lane you take on that road, it still leads to a path of possible ruination.

Well, once again, I've lead us off on a tangent. I have given my piece of mind and will speak of this no more.