worst presidents in the history of the united states of america

[Elky]

lincoln

-instated a draft
-first president to implement a federal income tax
-suspended habeas corpus
-suspended 1st amendment rights by shutting down newspaper who opposed the war and imprisoned political opponents
-illegal creation of west virginia
-“if i could save the union without freeing a single negro i would do it."

fdr

-knew the attack on pearl harbor would occur beforehand
-worsened the great depression with his gov't programs that he ripped off from hoover.
-confiscated gold.
-internment of asian-americans.
-social security is a bankrupt ponzi scheme.
-minimum wage is illogical and a violation of freedom of contract
-responsible for the rise of stalin
-court-packing scandal

gwb

-either knew 9/11 would occur beforehand or was part of it
-nonsensical foreign policy
-torture
-complete disregard for the constitution via the patriot act
-bailouts

woodrow wilson

-federal reserve, income tax, and the irs
-completely unnecessary involvement in wwi
-created our current nonsensical foreign policy
-helped created the league of nations, which led to the united nations
-“I cannot imagine power as a thing negative and not positive.”
-“The competent leader of men cares little for the internal niceties of other people’s characters: he cares much–everything–for the external uses to which they may be put…. He supplies the power; others supply only the materials upon which that power operates…. It is the power which dictates, dominates; the materials yield. Men are as clay in the hands of the consummate leader.”
-created the Committee on Public Information, the first propaganda dept.
-passed a sedition act, illegal to criticize the govt
-treaty of versailles led to wwii

[HolyShadow]

This sort of thing is highly controversial. Depending on the writer of the list, Ronald Reagan may be one of the worst presidents in the history of the united states. It makes for an interesting discussion, but simply giving this list may not be the best way to prepare an argument.

[Elky]

reagan had the right idea, just failed to walk the walk. he is nothing compared to fdr and wilson.

[HolyShadow]

How about Nixon? Getting caught made him at least a bad one.

[Elky]

nixon was definitely awful. abolishing the gold standard alone has him on the top 10 worst presidents list.

[Xanadu]

William Henry Harrison
he was in office a month
he died...
he did nothing

[Elky]

he did nothing

good.

[HolyShadow]

Well... if you do nothing, you can't fuck anything up.

[Spoofs3]

lincoln

-instated a draft
-first president to implement a federal income tax
-suspended habeas corpus
-suspended 1st amendment rights by shutting down newspaper who opposed the war and imprisoned political opponents
-illegal creation of west virginia
-“if i could save the union without freeing a single negro i would do it."

fdr

-knew the attack on pearl harbor would occur beforehand
-worsened the great depression with his gov't programs that he ripped off from hoover.
-confiscated gold.
-internment of asian-americans.
-social security is a bankrupt ponzi scheme.
-minimum wage is illogical and a violation of freedom of contract
-responsible for the rise of stalin
-court-packing scandal

gwb

-either knew 9/11 would occur beforehand or was part of it
-nonsensical foreign policy
-torture
-complete disregard for the constitution via the patriot act
-bailouts

woodrow wilson

-federal reserve, income tax, and the irs
-completely unnecessary involvement in wwi
-created our current nonsensical foreign policy
-helped created the league of nations, which led to the united nations
-“I cannot imagine power as a thing negative and not positive.”
-“The competent leader of men cares little for the internal niceties of other people’s characters: he cares much–everything–for the external uses to which they may be put…. He supplies the power; others supply only the materials upon which that power operates…. It is the power which dictates, dominates; the materials yield. Men are as clay in the hands of the consummate leader.”
-created the Committee on Public Information, the first propaganda dept.
-passed a sedition act, illegal to criticize the govt
-treaty of versailles led to wwii

Most of these are the most idiotic things ever...
You state all the BAD things about them as if there were no good things.
Let me rip you apart, Piece by piece.

- You mention alot of what Abraham does during his career as President but you have to remember that Lincoln didn't really have a chance. He had a good steady 11 Months as President before the Civil War came and Civil War messes up ALL countries,
You cannot criticize him for making some "Unlawful" Decisions when the country was at the brink of toppling. All men do bad things in order to keep the country alive during times of Civil war. Name me one Civil War in which either side did not do everything possible to achieve victory :P
Also, Good job misinterpreting his quote there...
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."
This quote is about how he would do anything to stop his country from being destroyed, How he would sacrifice liberties to make sure his country stays alive.
You can not blame him for actually wanting to make sure they do not split :P

@2:
I believe this guy is actually a good president.
First of all, I want to get this clear, The Rise of Stalin had nothing to do with America but was a Soviet Russian INTERNAL ideal. Stalin tricked his opponents and even Lenin's own wife into trusting him to make him leader. I see not how Rooseavelt was to blame... Or I dunno, Maybe I'm just stupid and America SHOULD help in every single global situation no matter the time nor situation. (Also Stalin rose BEFORE he was president :P)
Ehhh, Minimum wage is not illogical and was set up to protect workers rights, Or is that too communist for you? You believe people should be forced to work for 13 Cent an hour because that's the best they can do?
Minimum wage was a good idea and he was right to bring it in...
The internment of Asian-Americans was not all Asian Americans and just with people with Japanese blood. Nonetheless, I may not agree with it, but it was happening all over the world. And if you find this bad, Why not criticize the authorisation of the Nuclear Bomb? By Truman? He actually signed papers allowing the deaths of CIVILIANS not just the internment. Although I am not justifying his actions, I am saying there are bigger fish to fry than this action.
Although I believe that the gold should be allowed in Americas hands, It WAS illegal for civilians to own gold at the time... I believe it was only made properly legal again back in 1974. So you cannot blame him for seizing an illegal substance (Not made illegal by his administration) As it is perfectly his own right to do so.
Social Security MAY bankrupt a country, But it is needed for that country to seem kind in the face of the world. I believe some sort of system is needed (Which the USA is not providing) to make sure that those who use the system are generally in need of it (And are trying to get a job/ doing something to benefit the state)
But the introduction of it WAS a good idea as it gave human rights to those who could not medically, physically, mentally, Or just due to limitations of getting older - A chance to actually continue living rather than just... having nothing.

@3:
Do you even want somebody to argue about this one?
All the others were such controversial figures... Why put this one in, I don't even know...
I agree he was a terrible president, but he was a kind man who had his heart in the right place... Not his brain though :P

@4:
Once again, I have to agree... But this is not because of any of your views because quite frankly I believe they are stupid
(Wilson widthdrew from the League of Nations due to the implication of the Versailles treaty and he did not want anything to do with it, It was Britain and France that forced it upon the Germans)(Also Wilson actually wanted to stay out of the war and was only involved because the American people wanted to and Theodore Rossavelt was going to run for another term, If he did (He supported joining) Wilson would have lost.)(Also German U-Boats sinking American ships just MIGHT have helped persuade him...)
(Also the current foreign policy I presume you are talking about is the random wars? Or investing in foreign businesses? Because the Wars did not really begin until after World War II)(Investing in other countries is good economic policy in my opinion though... so I have no clue what you are on)
Also Wilson MAY have helped create the League of Nations but was appauled by it's decision to punish Germany so heavily, He widthdrew, I cannot see how he really affected alot in it as the modern United Nations is completely different :P)

But I will say he is up there for personal reasons to do with my country and the war.
When the War was going on and he joined he announced America would help maintain any small countries independance from the tyranny of larger empires.
Suprize Suprize, He would prefer to stay friends with Britain a larger empire than support the independance of her colonies.
But to be honest? That is the only reason why I think he was bad and it doesn't even have to do with your country.

(Feel free to correct my work... Preferably someone more intellegent than Elky... I welcome comments of the more senior users... and newer ones as long as they make sense)

[Fat1Fared]

Spoofs, I agree with everything you put about this guys ridiculous views, generally

1=Completely right, he did what all good leaders do and protected his beliefs and the beleifs of his followers. Though he was in a war, at lest he was fighting for what he believed in generally, and whether you personally agree with his beliefs or not, is completely different matter.

2=Agree again

=The Rise of Starlin was all to do with Totsky being the worlds dumbest genesis, sure he was unstoppable tactician and theological thinker, but when came to understanding normal poeple and how to act in political mine-fields, he was at complete loss without Lenin to guide him

-minimum wage is illogical and a violation of freedom of contract

Don't you love it, when a kid who has probably never worked a day in his life makes statements like this, and as for freedom of contract, well there is no such thing in truth, as the stronger parties always dictate terms of contract and use the weaker parties position to duress them into agreeing unfair terms, so why is it wrong for leaderships to actually protect the electorate for once, by not allowing these unfair terms?

social security is a bankrupt ponzi scheme.

Oh those bastards politicians, trying to help those who can no longer support themselves,
1=If ran probably, this system is fine, it poor management, not poor system which has caused its problems (There is massive difference)
2=Look at Countries like Britain, before they brought in such systems and then call it wrong (I cannot stand those who never see poverty and then ignorantly criticize anything which so much as tries to help poeple)

3=Agree, he was far from anything worthy of note in list and, though maybe can be criticisms directed at his handling of 911...etc,this is still too uncertian and modern a history to make real judgment on yet,

4=Well, I agree and I don't here, spoofs, I dislike Wilison, because history see's him as great freedom fighter, when in truth, he only cared about White freedoms and like you said, he even sold out those when it suited him, plus he seems to get away from Treaty of Versailles spot free, disipite when actually look at the history, he is actually lot more accepting of it, than common history likes to make out and actually pulled out of United Nations because realised how much would cost USA/lack of support in US homeland (decided to let Britain and French lump those bills instead, which is why it failed in end) rather than moral reasoning
=However, at same time I think he had right idea with L of N, and the UN is another of those things that, yes has been abused at times, and many failings in its history, but that doesn't make it, a bad idea.

[Insane]

The League of Nations was actually good, despite many things were bad about it, they still managed to resolve many (or at least some) arguments with no bloodshed, something that wouldn't have happened without them.
And as for fore-running the UN...
Yeah, but could you imagine a world without one?

[Elky]

- You mention alot of what Abraham does during his career as President but you have to remember that Lincoln didn't really have a chance. He had a good steady 11 Months as President before the Civil War came and Civil War messes up ALL countries ... You cannot criticize him for making some "Unlawful" Decisions when the country was at the brink of toppling. All men do bad things in order to keep the country alive during times of Civil war. Name me one Civil War in which either side did not do everything possible to achieve victory :P
Also, Good job misinterpreting his quote there...

it wouldn't have been a civil war if lincoln respected the south's right to secede and left them alone. before you bring up fort sumter, the south had every right to attack it. it was a northern fort in southern territory.

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."
This quote is about how he would do anything to stop his country from being destroyed, How he would sacrifice liberties to make sure his country stays alive.

so he cares more about the status of the state more than individual liberties. that's classic statism. secession and dissent is the cornerstone of the united states. the union was a voluntary union and every state has a right to secede if they want to.

You can not blame him for actually wanting to make sure they do not split :P

thanks to lincoln, the federal gov't practically runs our lives.

@2:
I believe this guy is actually a good president.
First of all, I want to get this clear, The Rise of Stalin had nothing to do with America but was a Soviet Russian INTERNAL ideal. Stalin tricked his opponents and even Lenin's own wife into trusting him to make him leader. I see not how Rooseavelt was to blame... (Also Stalin rose BEFORE he was president :P)

fdr was the one who legitimized stalin. he was the one who decided to be allies with stalin. allying with stalin led to the cold war, which led to training al-qaeda to fight the soviets, which led to 9/11 (presuming the commission report is actually true). we also allied with saddam.

Or I dunno, Maybe I'm just stupid and America SHOULD help in every single global situation no matter the time nor situation.

where in the constitution does it say the us is to be the world's police officer?

Ehhh, Minimum wage is not illogical and was set up to protect workers rights, Or is that too communist for you? You believe people should be forced to work for 13 Cent an hour because that's the best they can do?
Minimum wage was a good idea and he was right to bring it in...

have you ever taken an economics course? the more you raise the minimum wage, the more companies raise prices. it's common sense. if a company only pays 13 cents an hour, then simply don't work there. besides, even if you are earning 13 cents an hour, it would have just as much buying power as the current minimum wage because prices would drastically drop. without a minimum wage, it would be cheaper to create products that we can trade throughout the global market.

but it was happening all over the world.

..........................

And if you find this bad, Why not criticize the authorisation of the Nuclear Bomb?

because nuking japan was the only way to end the war?


Although I believe that the gold should be allowed in Americas hands, It WAS illegal for civilians to own gold at the time... I believe it was only made properly legal again back in 1974. So you cannot blame him for seizing an illegal substance (Not made illegal by his administration) As it is perfectly his own right to do so.

where in the constitution does it state that the president can ban gold? where is the logic in banning gold?

Social Security MAY bankrupt a country, But it is needed for that country to seem kind in the face of the world. I believe some sort of system is needed (Which the USA is not providing) to make sure that those who use the system are generally in need of it (And are trying to get a job/ doing something to benefit the state)

if you rely on social security then you have been a financial fuck up your entire life. why should i should be forced to pay for someone else's retirement when they could have started up a 401k or a roth ira? people that rely on social security don't deserve shit.

but he was a kind man who had his heart in the right place

http://www.murderati.com/storage/calvin_hobbes-laughing.jpg

(Wilson widthdrew from the League of Nations due to the implication of the Versailles treaty and he did not want anything to do with it, It was Britain and France that forced it upon the Germans)

it's irrelevant if wilson withdrew us from the lon. he was still the one who helped set it up. it took the american people to keep us out. and wilson signed that treaty, so he is responsible for wwii.

(Also Wilson actually wanted to stay out of the war and was only involved because the American people wanted to. d Theodore Rossavelt was going to run for another term, If he did (He supported joining) Wilson would have lost.)

way to totally get it the other around. also, to say he only opposed it to get votes shows he's opportunistic.

(Also German U-Boats sinking American ships just MIGHT have helped persuade him...)

that's what happens when you solely trade with germany's enemies.

(Also the current foreign policy I presume you are talking about is the random wars? Or investing in foreign businesses? Because the Wars did not really begin until after World War II)(Investing in other countries is good economic policy in my opinion though... so I have no clue what you are on)

"keep the world safe for democracy"

bush claimed he was invading iraq to bring "democracy to a country that has never seen it".

Also Wilson MAY have helped create the League of Nations but was appauled by it's decision to punish Germany so heavily, He widthdrew, I cannot see how he really affected alot in it as the modern United Nations is completely different :P)

because he was the one who set it up? if wilson never set up the lon the un would never exist.

[Aninamar]

Funny thing that just a year ago there was a similar thread. (http://forum.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/showthread.php?t=2927)

Also, I'm not serious. I don't need to be serious or elaborate when I'm taking a shit. Because this thread is the crapper that deserves it.

[Spoofs3]

Well I think there is no point continueing, Not only did he mix up my sarcasm with my real points, He was stupid enough not to elaborate and did everything by the constitution and not on how real politics is run.
I don't think anymore needs to be said really... Unless someone wants to actually turn this into a sensible topic with actual Presidents who deserve to be there?

[HolyShadow]

Someone find an official list. I tried, and got bored, but I'd like to see it.

[Fat1Fared]

Well I think there is no point continuing, Not only did he mix up my sarcasm with my real points, He was stupid enough not to elaborate and did everything by the constitution and not on how real politics is run.
I don't think anymore needs to be said really... Unless someone wants to actually turn this into a sensible topic with actual Presidents who deserve to be there?

Yer, I was just as bemused by his answers as well (and I didn't even make the points) but in his defense, a lot of layed poeple from USA consider their constitution to be their ultimate one true piece of Law, as all their ideals are meant to be kept and defended in it, so it isn't amazing that he uses it to try and prove points, even though really its uses in real political debates should be done carefully because of the way its works, (which actually has lot of flaws to it, there is some good points,) and the fact, that lot of time in real political history, have to look at the political and social Conceptually of the times and practicality of its uses when put into action verses the practicality of reality.

[Xanadu]

Well... if you do nothing, you can't fuck anything up.

that was a joke
I'm canadian man- closest to the US I've been is Windsor

[araharu]

Blatant trolling thread that ends with the OP banned. I see no point for this thread to continue. Message me with your POV if you feel strongly about me re-opening this thread.