Revenge

[Roseleaf]

Is it right to seek revenge?

I'm actually just wondering people's opinions, considering my interest in psychology, but also, if you have read the 'is it wrong when you are in love' thread, I now want to beat Matt Hart over the head because he is being a total a-hole, not just about our relationship, but everything in general.

So, opinions? I for one think that revenge is only good on a moderate scale. Things like murder or abuse or ruining someone's life are bad, but maybe making them feel bad about it might be okay, but you would have to approach it from a good angle. And that might not even really be revenge, that's kinda getting them to understand.

[Xanadu]

I want revenge all the time, so many things
when i was a little kid I used to keep a book of people I had to get revenge on
it started in grade 3 and went away in grade 6-I crossed out all the names though lol

[AllisonWalker]

You may desire revenge, but its not a good idea to get some.

[Ishikawa Oshro]

I feel in no way or form is revenge "really" okay.

In sense revenge is pretty much just emotions gone wild. When you are left outside to wait for your mother to pick you up you sometimes feel she is taking her sweet little time while you rout ther ein the cold freezing. Emotions build and you begin to form an attitude which in sense leads to you wanting your mother to feel the pain (or cold) you felt. Aka revenge. Now your mother may have just had bad luck that night and hit all red lights. Tough luck.

There are the other cases however which are harder to classify.
As in the heartbreak. Woman gets cheated on by Boyfriend. theyve been together for 4 years. The woman off course is not okay with a break up like this. So she wants to get back at him. (revenge) Now at this current state of mind you are pretty much filled with a furry of rage. you just to inflict pain in any way possible. trying to "hurt" him or inflict mental pain. so you develop a very diabolical and elaborate plan made from your very own cunning witty mind. Get the boyfriend to come out side and then youll spray him with paintballs. Simple enough. Except everything goes according to plan. you hit him with paintballs. and all that good stuff. But a ball hits him in the eye destroying his retina. He is now blind in one of his eyes. You may have took things a bit too far.

(not too mention revenge sometimes goes back and forth with both partys content on always being the winner when in fatc both partys actually lose. Its a waste of life to seek someone for vengance. your just living with pent up anger till you finally get them back. and then what????)

Too me revenge is a childs game. Why? Because you gamble so much and your state of mind is usually not sane. If you really want to get someone back have a good ol tussle with them. Or take it to a higher power. Not everyone wins justice isent always fair. But hey thats life.

[Aninamar]

As in the heartbreak. Woman gets cheated on by Boyfriend. theyve been together for 4 years. The woman off course is not okay with a break up like this. So she wants to get back at him. (revenge) Now at this current state of mind you are pretty much filled with a furry of rage. you just to inflict pain in any way possible. trying to "hurt" him or inflict mental pain. so you develop a very diabolical and elaborate plan made from your very own cunning witty mind. Get the boyfriend to come out side and then youll spray him with paintballs. Simple enough. Except everything goes according to plan. you hit him with paintballs. and all that good stuff. But a ball hits him in the eye destroying his retina. He is now blind in one of his eyes. You may have took things a bit too far.

BUT WHO WAS PHONE?

furry of rage

O_o
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7600000/Furry-Joey-yu-gi-oh-abridged-7686917-200-191.jpg

What does Joey have to do with anything?

[AllisonWalker]

Joey has everything to do with it.

[HolyShadow]

Revenge is perfectly fine in any form. Revenge is when morals are at the side and emotions rule. Killing as revenge is perfectly fine because the person doesn't care about logic if it goes that far. Any person would act the same because if an ordinary person considers murder as revenge, it's very likely that something traumatic happened to them.

However, they have to be prepared to become that which they have killed and accept the punishment from their crime.

[Spoofs3]

BUT WHO WAS PHONE?



O_o
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7600000/Furry-Joey-yu-gi-oh-abridged-7686917-200-191.jpg

What does Joey have to do with anything?

Shut up Aninamar, You already helped destory the Is it wrong when you are in love Thread by spamming
Don't do it to another one that I will actually talk in...
Anways, In my opinion, Revenge is a good thing. But of course Revenge can mean multiple things, If you need revenge for somebody breaking the law towards you, A nice call to the police can work. Of course if it was perfectly legal that you want revenge for, More thinking must be needed.
But yes, It is completely alright to feel the need for revenge.
An Eye for an Eye so to speak

[MrsSallyBakura]

Too me revenge is a childs game. Why? Because you gamble so much and your state of mind is usually not sane. If you really want to get someone back have a good ol tussle with them. Or take it to a higher power. Not everyone wins justice isent always fair. But hey thats life.

I agree with this.

There's an episode of Malcolm in the Middle where Malcolm and his older brother Reese take turns playing nasty pranks on each other out of vengeance because one morning Reese stole the last blueberry at breakfast. Toward the end Reese resorts to stealing over a hundred dollars from Malcolm and buying a go-kart with it and then crashing it. They both end up needing to get casts and bandages and all that fun stuff because of the go-kart incident.

Now, this comedic antic specifically probably wouldn't happen to anyone you know, but it does say something interesting about revenge in that if keep letting your emotions rage on and on, you'll never get even. The other party doesn't always see your "getting even" as getting even because the other party may not have believed that they did anything wrong in the first place. When does the cycle end?

People really need to learn to let things go. Whatever happened between you and some other person is most likely insignificant when in put in light with the rest of your life. Even if what that person did completely change it, life goes on and there isn't anything you can do about it. What will getting revenge on this person do to change what s/he did to you?

[HolyShadow]

Who cares about change? If I had a child, and someone killed that child and got away with it, it is my duty to kill him. It may not bring the child back, but it would give closure. Any normal person would do the exact same thing and you know it.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Who cares about change? If I had a child, and someone killed that child and got away with it, it is my duty to kill him. It may not bring the child back, but it would give closure. Any normal person would do the exact same thing and you know it.

Define "normal."

Because as far as I know, most normal people would let the law take care of that stuff. If they got away from the law, then what makes you think that you yourself are capable of catching the criminal?

[HolyShadow]

Well, suppose this situation:

You saw the person kill your daughter.
The police could find no evidence of this because the evidence was destroyed before they could get to it.
The police and you both know who that person is and where they're at.
You have a shotgun.

What should you do? Let it go? No, you kill him.

[Spoofs3]

Well, suppose this situation:

You saw the person kill your daughter.
The police could find no evidence of this because the evidence was destroyed before they could get to it.
The police and you both know who that person is and where they're at.
You have a shotgun.

What should you do? Let it go? No, you kill him.

Well when you make it sound so tempting, Yes.
I suppose I would.

[Bluetune]

Well, suppose this situation:

You saw the person kill your daughter.
The police could find no evidence of this because the evidence was destroyed before they could get to it.
The police and you both know who that person is and where they're at.
You have a shotgun.

What should you do? Let it go? No, you kill him.

Well if the police already know where he is that probably means that they have a warrant to search his house. So your logic doesn't make sense.

What do you think is a worse revenge? Having someone die by murder, Or having that someone die in an electric chair in front of everyone he loves?

[HolyShadow]

Uhh...

How would searching his house help if the evidence has been destroyed? There is no evidence of it happening, but you saw it.

Straw man tactics don't work, my friend.

[AllisonWalker]

It doesn't matter what happens here; a murderer is going to rot in hell anyways. Justice is eventual.

[Bluetune]

It's not strawman. If your the witness of a murder and you know who did it that's all the evidence you need for an arrest.

Besides the best physical evidence would likely be in the house where the daughter was murdered. You know finger prints foot prints, bullet shells, etc.

[HolyShadow]

Again, evidence destroyed. If you see it happen, he can just say that you killed your daughter and not him. He can make shit up.

Now stop trying to poke holes in my logic because I can just make another situation like it. Stop trying to dodge it and answer the damn question.

You know beyond all doubt that a person committed a crime but for whatever reason the police cannot take action. Will you let the person get away with it or kill them?

[Bluetune]

Again, evidence destroyed. If you see it happen, he can just say that you killed your daughter and not him. He can make shit up.

Now stop trying to poke holes in my logic because I can just make another situation like it. Stop trying to dodge it and answer the damn question.

You know beyond all doubt that a person committed a crime but for whatever reason the police cannot take action. Will you let the person get away with it or kill them?

Well Ican't really say becuase I've never witnessed a murder or anything like that.

But if it were me I'd probably torture him until he told me why he did it... then maybe I'd kill him.

[HolyShadow]

It doesn't matter what happens here; a murderer is going to rot in hell anyways. Justice is eventual.
Prove that there is a hell.

[AllisonWalker]

Prove that there is a hell.

Prove that there isn't. Its a matter of faith. You either have it or you don't.

[Bluetune]

In that case isn't Jesus your get out of hell free card?

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" right?

[AllisonWalker]

No, not at all.

Besides, I'm not Catholic.

[HolyShadow]

Has there even been a single person in history that has ever seen hell?

No. Yet there have been billions that haven't.

This is evidence in itself.

[AllisonWalker]

Um, hell is for the dead. How can you 'see' hell if you're alive?

[HolyShadow]

Also known as "Convenient Excuse A".

I notice religion has a lot of those.

[Bluetune]

No, not at all.

Besides, I'm not Catholic.

don't even try to call that Catholicism. Catholicism is confess or don't go to heaven and more of the mary mary queen of grace crap.

The bible says believe on Jesus and you shalt be saved. It also says in the same verse that that's a gift from god so no matter what you do salvation can't be taken away. My point is even if you take revenge on someone, as evil as it sounds, the bible says Jesus will save you for believing on him. If you believe that salvation can be taken away that's Calvinism not Catholicism.

[AllisonWalker]

Its not an excuse. Religion is supernatural. You either believe it or you don't.

[Bluetune]

Thats not what I'm saying though.

I'm saying that according to the main idea of the new testament in the christian religion sinning is okay as long as you beleive on Jesus.

THEREFORE if I murder someone out of revenge and I believe on Jesus christ I'm going to heaven anyway because Jesus loves me.

[AllisonWalker]

don't even try to call that Catholicism. Catholicism is confess or don't go to heaven and more of the mary mary queen of grace crap.

The bible says believe on Jesus and you shalt be saved. It also says in the same verse that that's a gift from god so no matter what you do salvation can't be taken away. My point is even if you take revenge on someone, as evil as it sounds, the bible says Jesus will save you for believing on him. If you believe that salvation can be taken away that's Calvinism not Catholicism.

I'm talking about the 'In that case isn't Jesus your get out of hell free card?' comment. There is no way to 'get a free card'.

There are many different versions of the bible and I don't follow that. I'm not Calvinist, I don't believe in 'predestination' or any of that crap.

Jesus will not save you for murdering others. It's a sin. You must love your enemies and forgive your trespassers.

[Bluetune]

Yeah and according to Jesus everybody sins. The bible even says that sin is the wage of death. It's not possible to NOT SIN that's pointed out heavily in the bible that's why Jesus acts as a mediator between man and god. He's saving us because we can't save ourselves. It's called Free grace it's what Baptists believe.

[AllisonWalker]

Yes, everyone sins, but that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want because 'Jesus will forgive you'.

I'm baptisted Presbyterian, but I follow my own code of Christianity.

[HolyShadow]

"I'm unique!" Just like everyone else.

[Bluetune]

Yeah of course I'm not advocating murder I'm just telling you what I know.

Lets give an example though. Say your a Jesus believing christian at war and everyone besides you is either an athiest a new ager or some other form of blasphemer. And your killing people everyday. Who goes to heaven when they die in the heat of battle?

[AllisonWalker]

Yeah of course I'm not advocating murder I'm just telling you what I know.

Lets give an example though. Say your a Jesus believing christian at war and everyone besides you is either an athiest a new ager or some other form of blasphemer. And your killing people everyday. Who goes to heaven when they die in the heat of battle?

Killing for the sake of killing is wrong. It's only acceptable for protecting others (like in times of war) and you only do what is morally right (don't conscientiously kill or injure civilians).

So in that case, since you aren't actually protecting people or yourself, it's murder; so you would go to hell(according to my beliefs).

[HolyShadow]

If a person murders once, they're likely to murder again. In seeking revenge, the chance for preventing many future deaths is very high.

[AllisonWalker]

I disagree.

[HolyShadow]

Yes, of course you do. You're religious. You don't care about logic. It's understandable.

[AllisonWalker]

No, its because most people who kill are acting in a fit of passion. Only 3% of the human population are sociopaths, and they are the type to do it again, and again, and again. They're also the type to be clever enough to escape detection. Most people can't, and most sociopaths aren't killers anyways.

That's why I disagree.

[HolyShadow]

I have proposed a specific situation in which a person is able to do this right in front of you and are able to escape all punishment through some means. They have said that they will do it again and again, and they have done it dozens of times before.

I have asked you whether you should kill that person.

[AllisonWalker]

I would not.

[HolyShadow]

Then you are not a normal person (and are very clearly simply disagreeing in order to poke a hole in my logic).

[Bluetune]

Killing for the sake of killing is wrong. It's only acceptable for protecting others (like in times of war) and you only do what is morally right (don't conscientiously kill or injure civilians).

Well with that logic every US Soldier fighting in the false war in Iraq is going to hell unless they didn't kill anyone. A large number of deaths in the Iraq war have been civilians.

[HolyShadow]

She's perfectly fine with people going to hell using her logic. She doesn't seem to care at all about their souls, and cares more about some deity's self-centered notion of justice.

But anyway, back on topic. Revenge. God is a part of it, yes, but let's not let it get any more off-topic.

[AllisonWalker]

Well with that logic every US Soldier fighting in the false war in Iraq is going to hell unless they didn't kill anyone. A large number of deaths in the Iraq war have been civilians.

No they aren't. Soldiers are given orders. If they choose to kill someone for the hell of it, that's a sin. Civilians will always get stuck in the crossfire, which is why soldiers should always try to avoid targeting them.

Key word: try.

SR, you don't get it, so just quit it already. It has nothing to do with the bible, it's my own beliefs. I don't follow anyone's bible. People are in control of their own fates and their own souls.

Revenge is wrong.

[HolyShadow]

So it's fine to kill someone or wreck their life as long as they didn't try to? Yeah, bullshit.

[AllisonWalker]

It's not fine, but it is forgivable.

I'm assuming you're an atheist, right?

[HolyShadow]

I'm not sure what I am. But this is for the religion topic. Ask there.

[Bluetune]

How about revenge on a small scale? Like putting a tac on the teacher's seat or pissing in someone's Wheaties? It doesn't harm anyone so it's okay right?

[AllisonWalker]

That's really gross and immature.

[Bluetune]

It's just an example, get over yourself... Answer the damn question!

[AllisonWalker]

I've answered enough of your hypothetical questions. Like I have said many times before, revenge is wrong.

[HolyShadow]

Explain why it's wrong.

[Bluetune]

Well that's your opinion, but your not the only person I'm talking to. Just because you believe it's wrong doesn't make it wrong.

[Fenrir502]

Explain why it's wrong.

When does it stop?

You take revenge on someone, they take revenge on you, you take revenge right back at them.

[HolyShadow]

When does it stop?

You take revenge on someone, they take revenge on you, you take revenge right back at them.
Life:

When does it stop?

You have sex. You have a child. They have sex. They have a child.

Just because something doesn't stop doesn't mean it's bad.

[Fenrir502]

Life:

When does it stop?

You have sex. You have a child. They have sex. They have a child.

Just because something doesn't stop doesn't mean it's bad.

It's not bad because it doesn't stop. It's bad because it's an act of hatred or violence which perpetuates further acts of hatred or violence. Hatred and violence are generally bad things.

[Bluetune]

Well in this case wrong is defined by what the person is feeling after the fact or by whether others perceive it as being morally right or not.

So in that case if the guilty party doesn't perceive what they do as wrong it's not to them. They would probably make excuses to justify what they did.

here's my question though.

Say someone who takes revenge spends most of his life after the fact in regret. Is it wrong then for the child of that person to hunt the killer down and take the same revenge?

[HolyShadow]

Life has plenty of hatred and violence. In fact, it's impossible for someone not to feel hatred and violence sting them in life.

If you stop all life, all hatred and violence stops.

Therefore, life is supporting hatred and violence.

Therefore, life is bad.

@Blue:

If they're truly sorry, then they should be glad and willing to give up their life.

[Bluetune]

If they're truly sorry, then they should be glad and willing to give up their life.

Good answer


your a riot man! :biggrin:

[Fenrir502]

Life has plenty of hatred and violence. In fact, it's impossible for someone not to feel hatred and violence sting them in life.

If you stop all life, all hatred and violence stops.

Therefore, life is supporting hatred and violence.

Therefore, life is bad.

The bold is true, it's impossible to live without something else dying. However, there's a difference between experienceing the innevitable violence of life, and actively seeking out violence for something as trivial as revenge.

As for the underlined, that's like destroying a sock to get rid of a hole. The hole's gone, but you don't have a sock to wear anymore.

[HolyShadow]

Yet the underlined are still technically true if you accept the first statement. The only way the underlined is false is if you disprove the first part.

[Fenrir502]

Yet the underlined are still technically true if you accept the first statement. The only way the underlined is false is if you disprove the first part.

It's one way to look at it, no argument there.

It's not exactly the only way to look at it though.

If you look at it in terms of positives and negatives, killing could be divided into at least two groups: Death which perpetuates life and death which does not perpetuate life.

If you eat a cow, the cow's death is perpetuating life by preventing you from dying of starvation, making it a 'positive' thing. If you kill a cow and leave it rot, it is going to perpetuate life by way of decomposition, granted, but it would do so in any way that it died. It could therefore be said to be solely 'negative'.

[HolyShadow]

Not quite. If you kill a human, then every breath that he took and the gas he used will have done irreparable damage to the environment, causing a great amount of sadness.

Ergo, killing anyone is a good thing in the long term.

It is a positive thing in that regard.

Revenge, therefore, follows their example and does even more justice for the world. Revenge is therefore even more positive because it not only kills, but also makes you want to kill more, causing several deaths along the way and afterward.

[Fenrir502]

Not quite. If you kill a human, then every breath that he took and the gas he used will have done irreparable damage to the environment, causing a great amount of sadness.

Ergo, killing anyone is a good thing in the long term.

You can't 'use' gas.

At least, not in the sense of it being forever depleted. All the gas that is 'used' in cellular respiration is changed in some form. The basic equation for humans, at least, is something like: C6H12O6 + 6O2 --> 6CO2 + 6H2O + energy.

Conveniently, the basic equation for plants to conduct photosynthesis is 6CO2 + 6H2O + energy --> 6O2 + C6H12O6.

No gas is used, in this case, no damage is done, and life goes on.

[HolyShadow]

No, I mean gas as in gasoline. The thing you fill up cars with.

[Fenrir502]

No, I mean gas as in gasoline. The thing you fill up cars with.

Oh, we don't call that gas here, and you used the word 'breath', so I misunderstood, sorry.

As for the useage of petrol, again, you have a point. However, considering that it's entirely possible to prevent it being burned without ending all life, it doesn't make that solution the only solution.

[HolyShadow]

Yet it makes it the quickest, most effective solution.

[Fenrir502]

Yet it makes it the quickest, most effective solution.

That doesn't make it the best solution.

The proposition is to prevent the impending death of all life on the planet due to overuse of fossil fuels by... ending all life on the planet.

Don't tell me you can't see the problem there?

[HolyShadow]

Not all life. Just humans, the greatest consumers... and cows.

It'll cause the other animals to live much, much longer.

[Bluetune]

Well the flaw in your statement earlier is that gas has NOT created damage to the environment. You can explain the damage done to the environment with several other variables. Mainly the sun and other greenhouses gasses BESIDES Co2 mainly water vapor and methane.

So in response to your theory I say I reject your reality and replace it with my own.


Besides what happens in the environment after the person dies from revenge doesn't have anything to do with the revenge itself. It's a consequence.

[HolyShadow]

No, it hasn't, but given enough time, it can. It's like an ant bite. All the gas in the world is an ant bite, but if you have enough, you could kill a human being with them.

[Aninamar]

Shut up Aninamar, You already helped destory the Is it wrong when you are in love Thread by spamming

I thought that topic was already long dead. Like Spike in Cowboy Bebop and Kamina in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

[darkarcher]

Discussion has no semblance of the original topic. Closing now.

Aninamar, quit spamming/trolling the Serious Discussion threads.