Good Idea or bad? U.S. Legal age to be 16

[ThePRPD]

No, it's not actually happening.

Do you think it would be a good or bad idea for the U.S. Legal age and the age of consent to be 16 years old?

I think this could make an interesting discussion.

[Underling]

What's the "U.S. legal age"?

Is it illegal to be under 16 over there? That must suck. (No seriously I don't know, UKfag here).

Age of consent is already 16 here (18 if it involves a teacher or some other authority figure I believe).
Seems fine so far.

[mystra]

VERY bad idea. and not just because i'm a parent. 18 should be the standard legal age for everything in the US imo. you're out of HS (unless you're left back of course) and starting as an "adult" in the world. the only stipulation i see is in the case of being left back, in that case whenever you graduate HS would be legal age of consent.

[MrsSallyBakura]

VERY bad idea. and not just because i'm a parent. 18 should be the standard legal age for everything in the US imo. you're out of HS (unless you're left back of course) and starting as an "adult" in the world. the only stipulation i see is in the case of being left back, in that case whenever you graduate HS would be legal age of consent.

I agree with this, except that I think the drinking age should be either 19 or 20.

[musigal]

VERY bad idea. and not just because i'm a parent. 18 should be the standard legal age for everything in the US imo. you're out of HS (unless you're left back of course) and starting as an "adult" in the world. the only stipulation i see is in the case of being left back, in that case whenever you graduate HS would be legal age of consent.

but people who graduate early (like at 17) would still have to wait? I guess that would prevent 14 year olds who graduate early from doing stuff...

[darkarcher]

I agree with mystra. It seems odd to me that so many things about being legally considered an adult happen at different ages (voting, age of consent, allowed to purchase alcohol, etc.).

[musigal]

I agree with mystra. It seems odd to me that so many things about being legally considered an adult happen at different ages (voting, age of consent, allowed to purchase alcohol, etc.).

the last thing you can't do is until age 25: renting a car.

[mystra]

the last thing you can't do is until age 25: renting a car.

you also can't get a better car insurance rate until you're around 25 or so. though i think that age also varies by male or female.

[DarthWario]

*shrugs*

It works in England. I don't see any reason it wouldn't in America.

[Gary]

There shouldn't be an age of consent. If a twelve year old wants to have sex, let him/her do it.

[mystra]

There shouldn't be an age of consent. If a twelve year old wants to have sex, let him/her do it.

sure why not? pedophilia runs rampant these days anyhow and kids as young as 12 are having kids in some places.

dude give a reason to back up your statement.

[AllisonWalker]

You have to be 21 in most hotels to rent a room. That's obnoxious and I hate that regulation.

[DarthWario]

You have to be 16 to buy pets!

I thought i'd just say that.

[MrsSallyBakura]

You have to be 21 in most hotels to rent a room. That's obnoxious and I hate that regulation.

That is indeed obnoxious. I bet it's because of that darn mini-bar...

[AllisonWalker]

Bartenders should be checking ID anyways.
>_>
When you're 18, there's no reason for establishments to deny you access or services.

[mystra]

You have to be 16 to buy pets!

I thought i'd just say that.

i know that's true in the UK but i don't know about the US

[Spoofs3]

I believe that everything should be legal by at least 18. (If not before)
Nothing (Including alcohol and cigarettes, Driving, sex, All of it) Should be starting AFTER the age of 18.
If you can fight and die for your country, You can choose who runs it and have a pint while doing so =S

[DarthWario]

Heh. Have a pint while in the polling station.

[HarleyThomas1002]

It's 16 in Canada and it seems to be doing something.

Judging by my school having a daycare it seems to be increasing the population.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I believe that everything should be legal by at least 18. (If not before)
Nothing (Including alcohol and cigarettes, Driving, sex, All of it) Should be starting AFTER the age of 18.
If you can fight and die for your country, You can choose who runs it and have a pint while doing so =S

I would agree with this, but in America, most high school seniors are 18. I'm not certain how wise it would be to legally allow high schoolers to drink and have parties. I think that 19 or 20 would be a better drinking age in America.

[ThePRPD]

Despite it being illegal they're high schoolers that do and get away with drinking and what not.

[JesusRocks]

Regardless of what age it is, I think that the age itself should be standard across the states, not variable between states.

[AllisonWalker]

Despite it being illegal they're high schoolers that do and get away with drinking and what not.

People get away with murder and rape too, ya know. That doesn't stop it from being illegal.:8V:

[ThePRPD]

Of course.

[AnAliasUnknown]

You have to be 21 in most hotels to rent a room. That's obnoxious and I hate that regulation.

Really? I didn't know that. Like someone said, it's probably because of the mini-bars, but that's still kind of stupid.

I think that it's a bit strange to have different legal ages for different things (especially in cases such as renting a car), but in general I don't really know if it would make much difference. It's technically only a two year gap, so I don't really think much development is going to have occurred within that span of time.

Personally I'm fine with the general age itself, but that may be because I already passed it :thatface:

[AllisonWalker]

It drives me insane because I can't book a hotel room for my Chicago trip because I'm only 19.

[AnAliasUnknown]

I couldn't either then :8V: But since I usual travel with family, it hasn't been an issue before.

Is it necessary for someone to go with you if they book the hotel room? [/stupid question that I can probably answer on my own with a "Yes"]

[TitanAura]

We need to institute a not-so-standardized test for an "I am not a dipshit" certificate. Like a driving test that gives out free beer and cell phones with texting plans at the start.

[Noah Kaiba]

I think it should be left up to the states, but 16 does seem like a pretty good age to do it.

It's the legal age here in Michigan, but I do know a lot of teenage parents... Hmm.

[maisetofan]

well its been 16 here for years and years and years
and people are going to do it with or without an age limit i suppose

[mystra]

I would agree with this, but in America, most high school seniors are 18. I'm not certain how wise it would be to legally allow high schoolers to drink and have parties. I think that 19 or 20 would be a better drinking age in America.

Typically unless left back Americans graduate within a few months of turning 18. I don't see those few months being an issue. Or perhaps use the graduation/GED instance as the stepping point to opening the door to legal age. Of course if you don't get a diploma of some sort there would have to be a legal stipulation.

When our parents & grandparents were younger the laws were different. You could drive younger (now it varies greatly by state, not sure how that applied in our history), you could drink at 18 legally, and smoke (although in NY 18 used to be the legal age but it was changed to 19 about 6 years ago) (also I know nothing about the age of consent changes in our history so I'm leaving that out). Men and Woman once could die to serve our country at 18, vote, drive, drink, smoke and depending on the generation do drugs. Our parents and grandparents grew up much better than our generations did with those inclusions so I don't see why bringing them back should be that big of a deal. (I use "generations" as I'm older than most of you but our generations are not truly that far apart in some things despite what our elders believe.) Now (as someone stated below) you can die in a war on foreign soil but you can't have a beer or a cigarette if your from NY. Pretty stupid

Also I agree with the fact that it should be standardized across the US rather than by state. You're always going to have people doing something illegal but when you have a standardized law on extraneous things such as these it makes lives easier and enforcing easier. I knew someone years ago who was 17, got pregnant by a 14 y/o and went to another state where it was legal for them to marry when he turned 15. That's majorly fucked up if you ask me and a very good reason to have a standardized age limit. It's rather absurd imo to be able to get married before you can even legally drive a car, smoke, drink and vote!

[darkarcher]

Here's an interesting picture relevant to the conversation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Age_of_Consent.png

[TitanAura]

Here's an interesting picture relevant to the conversation.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Age_of_Consent.png
I find it disturbing that it drops from 12 (when puberty is, in fact, in effect for young girls and starting to take effect in boys) straight to 9. That doesn't sit well with me considering if I and those lawmakers were in the same room, I wouldn't be able to explain to the police officers why there are several unrecognizable corpses scattered throughout the building they found me in because I had no recollection of any such events corresponding to the previous night because sometime during our conversation I had a red out from increased blood pressure.

[darkarcher]

I find it disturbing that it drops from 12 (when puberty is, in fact, in effect for young girls and starting to take effect in boys) straight to 9. That doesn't sit well with me considering if I and those lawmakers were in the same room, I wouldn't be able to explain to the police officers why there are several unrecognizable corpses scattered throughout the building they found me in because I had no recollection of any such events corresponding to the previous night because sometime during our conversation I had a red out from increased blood pressure.

Also note that many of the blue countries (Europe notwithstanding) are in areas where women are married off at young ages anyway.

[TitanAura]

Also note that many of the blue countries (Europe notwithstanding) are in areas where women are married off at young ages anyway.
What I suspect, however, is that most of those younger girls are married off to older men, who are probably within or connected to the very same legal systems that instituted those laws. Not that you'd be able to research that sort of unsightly information very well.

[maisetofan]

i find it interesting that south australia has a different set of rules to the rest of the states in australia, i guess that would be the same with the USA though right? some states have laws different to others, for example medicinal marijuana is legal in CA but illegal under any circumstance in TX?

[MrsSallyBakura]

...I find it very disturbing that many states in Mexico consider the age of consent to be 9.

My cousin is 9. What in the world would make people think that she should be married off to someone? :/

i find it interesting that south australia has a different set of rules to the rest of the states in australia, i guess that would be the same with the USA though right? some states have laws different to others, for example medicinal marijuana is legal in CA but illegal under any circumstance in TX?

State laws are weird, basically.

[AllisonWalker]

I think it should be left up to the states, but 16 does seem like a pretty good age to do it.

It's the legal age here in Michigan, but I do know a lot of teenage parents... Hmm.
Me too.

So many people here from Michigan.

[JesusRocks]

Having different ages of consent in a single country is a silly idea. Basically it's saying that what's legally considered consensual sex in one state is legally considered paedophillia in another, and vice versa.

I mean come on, as dark-kun's diagram shows, that's the main problem with ages of consent in the rest of the world - why create such a problem in a single country.


Here's something to think about on an international level: The age of consent in the UK is 16. From 16 years old, with parental consent, two people can marry. Say... the wife is 16, and the husband is 18, and they moved to America before the wife turned 18. The husband would be a paedophile if they moved to a state where the age of consent is 18.

And likewise, two people who marry who come from a country where the age of consent is 12, or 13 or anything below 16, and happened to move for some reason to a country where the age of consent is a lot older, their pre-existing marriage would be illegal in that country.

To a degree, this is ridiculous.

[TitanAura]

Having different ages of consent in a single country is a silly idea. Basically it's saying that what's legally considered consensual sex in one state is legally considered paedophillia in another, and vice versa.

I mean come on, as dark-kun's diagram shows, that's the main problem with ages of consent in the rest of the world - why create such a problem in a single country.


Here's something to think about on an international level: The age of consent in the UK is 16. From 16 years old, with parental consent, two people can marry. Say... the wife is 16, and the husband is 18, and they moved to America before the wife turned 18. The husband would be a paedophile if they moved to a state where the age of consent is 18.

And likewise, two people who marry who come from a country where the age of consent is 12, or 13 or anything below 16, and happened to move for some reason to a country where the age of consent is a lot older, their pre-existing marriage would be illegal in that country.

To a degree, this is ridiculous.
It's another cultural morality battle that simply SHOULD NOT BE REGULATED. I've said the same thing about abortion and circumcisions because it doesn't matter what we perceive as fact, they should not be regulated because there will always be EXCEPTIONS to the normal conventions of society. These are matters that should be left to the FAMILIES and should be judged on an individual basis should either of the two people being wed personally object to it. Only then should it be brought before a judge. This is a topic that should not be made public domain. It should be kept in the PRIVACY OF A HOME, lest we forget that we have our freedom from government before they cut off the remaining strands holding up that giant weight of oppression.

Now that seemingly simple solution obviously leaves a few loose ends considering some children will be brainwashed into believing the ultimate goal in life is to make babies and therefore marrying at a young age is unquestionable. There's never a simple solution to a complex problem. How to handle this, I don't know but I'd personally gun down the adults in any such society that teaches kids that being violated before they are physically and emotionally prepared is okay so long as it's under the context of marriage.

[maisetofan]

...I find it very disturbing that many states in Mexico consider the age of consent to be 9.

My cousin is 9. What in the world would make people think that she should be married off to someone? :/



State laws are weird, basically.

that they are

and the age of nine is disgusting to be honest it should be outlawed
a nine year old is child, not even pubescent yet

she shouldn't be married off to anyone, i know it happens
did the profit muhammad not have a wife of a similar age?
and in certain countries in asia it was legal to marry someone that age, but the male was usually older and in the middle ages teenage girls often married men twice their age but sex was not consummated until the girl was 18 or so i read in the times of Tudor period (1485-1607)

[MrsSallyBakura]

Back in the old days, women were married off almost as soon as they started their period. Which could be as early as 9 years old, although rarely. This was done because life expectancy was low and babies died often in childbirth. The younger you start giving birth to children the more likely you were to survive as well.

But because of the life expectancy and the high birth rate, we don't need to abide by those standards. Women can wait until they're ready to make some money before they can get married and help support a family.

Even if my 9 year old cousin had started her period (which I highly doubt), that doesn't mean that she's culturally ready to have children. She's in freaking 3rd grade.

I'm not certain how different Mexican culture is in that regard, however, but I doubt that it's that different from American culture, technically.

[yamiangie]

16 is not a good age for teens to be age to let teens to do anything.
I understand why we don't have a national standard for legal age, driving, smoking etc. It's that whole states rights issue. Maybe they are trying to reduce the cases of teens getting caught having sex with each other and one ends up under that age. I know someone that happened two when the girl opened her mouth to Guidance.

We need graduated legality
defining how much younger the person you can legally sleep with can be
it will be so confusing that people will wait till they are fully legal anyway.
Oh and taxes on it.
(I just hate the licence laws in NY)

[Spoofs3]

I would agree with this, but in America, most high school seniors are 18. I'm not certain how wise it would be to legally allow high schoolers to drink and have parties. I think that 19 or 20 would be a better drinking age in America.

Oh of course, Because the French, Spanish and Italians are ALL like 14 when they get out of school...
All across Europe, Final Year students tend to be 18 and they've never had a problem... and they start drinking at 14 in some countries =P

[maisetofan]

All across Europe, Final Year students tend to be 18 and they've never had a problem... and they start drinking at 14 in some countries =P

yeah australia and new zealand both have drinking problems especially in teenagers, i mean teenage drinking affects modern society but it is a problem over here and in australia from what i saw.

Alot times people are not even asked for I.D, and the legal drinking age in N.Z is 18 and it varies in different states in australia but over on the gold coast there were teenagers who looked no older than fourteen off their face shouting abuse at people walking down the street, this was only at around 9-10pm, it was not a welcoming place to be on a thursday night, (surfers paradise) especially when u have been a on a plane for three hours then stuck in a badly over crowded airport ack

but here in new zealand a lot of kids start drinking when they hit high school which is thirteen :confused:

[ValkyrieJuno]

As a high school freshman who'll be a sophomore next year, I can understand the little things like renting a hotel room. That would piss a lot of us off especially since it doesn't hurt anyone and it's not even one of our main concerns. Just sex, alcohol, and drugs have our concern. Really they should keep the legal drinking age as it is. I don't really want to hear anything about just trying to have a good time or it's a right that teens should have just like adults. To hell with teen freedom when we already have tons of freedoms that most developing countries don't even have. That kinda just shows how selfish we are. And I don't know if the legal age to smoke is different where you guys live, but here in Nebraska it's 18. That means high school seniors can do it even around teachers as long as it's not prohibited in a certain area like school grounds. It's stupid too! My brother and his friends do it and one of them as asthma! Teens seem to make some retard decisions when it comes to these kinds of things!

Besides, I also think they should be a bit stricter sometimes. Some teachers don't even do a damn thing about it when they see it. Last year one of my friends was smoking behind the middle school and our 8th grade social studies teacher saw her. He didn't do anything except look at her weird. She's lucky he didn't do anything about it because he's a nice guy but he really should have! She was 14, not 18! And when people do get caught and get in huge trouble, they still continue to do it! Does anyone not ever learn their lesson? And more than 50% of the students at my school drink, about a third of those also being potheads. What the hell is happening to this country?! We've gone from "Land of the Free" to "Land of the Retards". I don't want to offend anyone but drinking, smoking, and drugs lead to a LOT of bad decision making. People think it's "cool" and "mature" but it isn't. It just causes you to stop respecting yourself. Just like swearing. It's okay really and great that it isn't illegal to cuss, but I hear way too many people dropping the F-Bomb multiple times in each sentence when not around teachers. And the friends I hang around with, they think it's okay to call themselves "hoes" and "bitches" and I find it REALLY offensive. Probably because I'm the only Christian in the group while the rest of them are aetheists(probably didn't spell that right). I swear, people would respect themselves better if they had more Jesus in their lives. One of th reasons why I wanna ditch my stupid friends. Like I said though, cussing is okay, but it shouldn't be used all the freakin' time like some people do. Thank God they didn't put a legal age law on that, that's for sure.

I may have digressed a little in my last paragraph. I hope I haven't offended or upset anyone and I apologize if I have. But that's what I think, and I've been itching to voice it out for the longest time.

[Fat1Fared]

-Yes us atheists, without god, how can we ever be good person, oh I am so sorry, what will I do, I am doomed, doomed, doomed <sorry your comment made me laugh, so had to joke here> but seriously mate, maybe you should try and learn to understand these people and get to know them better, you will find there not much different to you, I do not do drugs personally, for long list of reasons, but I know who do and there not immoral demons or anything, just people who have different choice to me in this area, but none of them are bad poeple, none go and cause "trouble", none are nasty, none are stupid, so trust me here, there is no line, these are normal poeple with a choice that differ's from your own and the area of drugs is really complicated one, (also off topic, so will finish here)

=But yer, you only live once mate, have some fun in your life, not saying go out till ready to die or anything, but trust me, the world will not end if your not completely proprietress all the time, oh and word of advise, when people tell you they didn't do pot or drink or swear in their youth and world was happier place, <_<
>_> yer their most probably lying, drugs, drink, swearing, fighting, "anti-social" behaviour, all been around as long as we have ^_^

-But there is one thing which I have noted keeps coming up in this thread and that is that teenagers are trouble makers and cannot be trusted to make own choices...etc, well I cannot say this as fact, but I think most can and that once past about 14, age has very little baring on your wisdom <sure may have more experience, but what do with experience which counts> and as have active social life and in that social life, I hang out with lot of "young" poeple AKA 18-22, I can say, that generally there is never any trouble, we all just want to have bit of fun, listen to music, dance and talk about whatever rubbish our "jesusless" minds can think of <sorry had to say it, your comment made me laugh again,> however i have found it is more of the 24+ people who go on Friday and Saturday night who actually make me uncomfortable, these poeple are ones who are most likely to see in fights....etc and hang out in large groups, loudly, <even here 99% just want have good time as well> but I would say these poeple are far worse than youth in my opinion, like said this 100% opinion and probably wrong, but as someone who goes out with lots of different groups, in lots of different areas, something I have noted and know what nights I feel safer on, it is nights when the youth go out,

<but then I cannot sleep right now because messed up sleeping patterns having too much fun, so maybe my opinion not fair here :thatface:>

-As for legal age of sex, I think should be one, where it should be is different question <do not get me wrong, I do not think it will make any difference to peoples opinions of when they want to have sex, but still think need one anyway>

-I think the problem with all age restriction laws, is that the people the laws are made for, are the ones who are would abuse the freedom of choice IE with sex, have lots of it, unprotected......etc, but ironically these are also the people who give very little regard for such laws and so means the laws are quite redundant as only effect ones willing to listen, who are ones who would not need the extra restrictions, <just an irony>

[MrsSallyBakura]

-Yes us atheists, without god, how can we ever be good person, oh I am so sorry, what will I do, I am doomed, doomed, doomed <sorry your comment made me laugh, so had to joke here> but seriously mate, maybe you should try and learn to understand these people and get to know them better, you will find there not much different to you, I do not do drugs personally, for long list of reasons, but I know who do and there not immoral demons or anything, just people who have different choice to me in this area, but none of them are bad poeple, none go and cause "trouble", none are nasty, none are stupid, so trust me here, there is no line, these are normal poeple with a choice that differ's from your own and the area of drugs is really complicated one, (also off topic, so will finish here)

Not that I condone people passing off the "they're atheists so they don't have many morals" mentality, but I think that a couple of things need to be taken into consideration, and the main theme for both of those is her age.

I'm not saying that all teenagers who call themselves atheists are 'immoral,' but generally speaking and from my personal experience, a lot of the teenagers who call themselves atheists are doing so to rebel against society and parents and blah blah blah. Not a good reason to be an atheist, but hey, I suppose they'll grow up eventually. And it annoys anybody with any moral character, even though other people's matters shouldn't be any of their business.

The other thing is her age itself... I remember when I was a freshman having very similar convictions. Then I grew up and saw that things weren't quite as I perceived. Believe me, if you think that I'm frustrating to debate with now, you should have seen me when I was 15, lol.

But at any rate

Really they should keep the legal drinking age as it is. I don't really want to hear anything about just trying to have a good time or it's a right that teens should have just like adults.

But what if the drinking age was at 19 or 20? I don't believe that alcohol should be legal for high schoolers, that much I'll agree with you on (since making the drinking age 18 would make more than half the high school seniors legal to drink by the time they graduated, and that doesn't seem like a very safe idea), but when you're in college and you make adult friends, it's pretty condescending not being allowed to order your own glass of wine, especially if you're like me and traveled to Europe the spring you turned 20, only to go back to the states and not be allowed to drink anymore. It just seems so silly to have the drinking age all the way up to 21 when most other countries have it lower.

That means high school seniors can do it even around teachers as long as it's not prohibited in a certain area like school grounds. It's stupid too! My brother and his friends do it and one of them as asthma! Teens seem to make some retard decisions when it comes to these kinds of things!

I'm not going to condone smoking, but smoking is not that bad in moderation. I don't like cigarettes because nicotine is addicting, but even if they're smoking cigarettes, I wouldn't waste your energy being frustrated by their decisions to smoke. They'll pay for it later. A lot of people quit after a while anyways - most of my adult cousins picked up smoking at some point and after a few years almost all of them have quit.

And more than 50% of the students at my school drink, about a third of those also being potheads. What the hell is happening to this country?! We've gone from "Land of the Free" to "Land of the Retards". I don't want to offend anyone but drinking, smoking, and drugs lead to a LOT of bad decision making. People think it's "cool" and "mature" but it isn't. It just causes you to stop respecting yourself.

You can be a free retard. :P
Although seriously, stuff like drinking and smoking and even drugs have been some kind of "problem" in this country for a very long time. People have had drinking problems for centuries - it's not something new. People were drunk in Shakespeare comedies all the time. The Bible speaks against drunkenness (although not drinking itself) not just out of theory but because people were actually drunkards. And people have smoked and done whatever drugs were available for who knows how long.
The reason why drinking, smoking and drugs are such a cultural issue is because we have placed a lot of value in "success," which means getting a job and raising money so that you can have enough money to support yourself and possibly a family. That is, aside from the moral issues behind substance abuse. But basically, if you're doing any of those 3 things, you're destroying your body and/or future.

The reality is that in moderation, drinking and smoking aren't that bad. Cigars and pipes are not addictive, they just taste good. Cigarettes have nicotine, as I said, so they're more addictive and it's a lot harder to smoke in moderation if you smoke cigarettes, but if you had a lot of self-control you'd still be able to smoke them in moderation. Drinking isn't that bad either because there are many people who drink because they like the taste but they don't drink to get hammered. Yes, drinking in excess can be terrible and when I was in high school I hated seeing people carry water bottles and jugs filled with alcohol to get drunk during school. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that crap anymore. But when you get older, you realize that alcohol CAN be drunk responsibly and that not everyone who drinks it is out to get wasted.

Drugs, if you're talking exclusively about marijuana, I don't have an opinion on. I don't smoke it, nor do I plan to, but from what I know it's similar to alcohol in that one whiff doesn't make you high right away.

It does make me wonder if I should have tried that vodka with pot leaves while I was in the Czech Republic, lol.
Probably would have made me nuts, though, so maybe it was good that I didn't try it.

[Fat1Fared]

Sally

Not that I condone people passing off the "they're atheists so they don't have many morals" mentality, but I think that a couple of things need to be taken into consideration, and the main theme for both of those is her age.

=Sally, I have no true idea why she has her beleifs and to openly guess at why, would Supercilious at best, but that is not the point, the point comes down to the fact, while their will be reasons, she has these beliefs and she is allowed these beleifs, I can still challenge these beliefs and to me, in my opinion, her beleifs came off as Arbitrary and appeared to be more of misunderstanding of way other people live than anything, I think she is falling into the trap of them and us, they live in a way, I am outside of and do not truly understand, but because my way of living is right way, I will judge it anyway <it is an action we all done and will probably never stop doing it, but if we are going to state that we do it, we need to accept others will challenge it


And it annoys anybody with any moral character


=Real moral character?????? there is no such thing, ask 99% of people and they all come back, saying they are moral, none are, none ain’t because morals do not exist other than as abstract belief, but out of time, so I will leave it and merely say in my experience, maybe try to see it from their point of view, remember life is for living, not just believing and if you hve problems with your friends, do not be self-destructive about it, deal with it in a way which allows to face problem as if you do not enjoy at least most of your time with friends, then something is wrong with friendship (but as do not know person or friends will not state how is best way to deal with it, as not in place to judge such a thing out of hand and already made an asumption from lne ditching my friends that is a problem)
-Remember this courts towards individuals not states, as they have different considerations and actions and so linking that back to topic, like said, should be standard age, just not sure what should be

<would put all better but go to go>

[JesusRocks]

I still think that a standard age across all the US states is a good idea >_>

[Kanap]

And I still think that 18 should be the drinking age, if you can force me to go fight in war i want to at least be able to have a "good time" before I have to depart to that area.

[maisetofan]

And I still think that 18 should be the drinking age, if you can force me to go fight in war i want to at least be able to have a "good time" before I have to depart to that area.

Exactly i agree with that statement!!!
if you are old enough to fight in brutal combat you should at least be allowed a drink first

[AllisonWalker]

Most people aren't fighting, you know.
>_>
We haven't had a draft in several decades.

[MrsSallyBakura]

And it annoys anybody with any moral character

Real moral character???????

Fat,

The words "any" and "real" are not synonymous. They're not even antonyms. Please don't react that way... :/

Most people aren't fighting, you know.
>_>
We haven't had a draft in several decades.

Maybe people in the military can be exempted from the 21 drinking age?

[AllisonWalker]

Maybe people in the military can be exempted from the 21 drinking age?

Why? Soldiers aren't going to be able to do their job effectively if they're wasted.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Why? Soldiers aren't going to be able to do their job effectively if they're wasted.

True, but they're usually doing their active duty overseas anyway, where it would be legal to drink..

And if they went into drill drunk... well, you probably know better than I do what the consequences would be. Then again, I don't know what exactly happens in drill - I could ask my brother. :V

[AllisonWalker]

True, but they're usually doing their active duty overseas anyway, where it would be legal to drink..

And if they went into drill drunk... well, you probably know better than I do what the consequences would be. Then again, I don't know what exactly happens in drill - I could ask my brother. :V

It would be legal to drink, but you probably shouldn't, because you have no idea when something will happen. From what I've been told, in the Navy, you have no real "steady" working hours.

:|
Yeah.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I only really know people in the Army, so I suppose it's different depending on which branch of military you're in.

But at any rate, I agree with JR that we should have a standard federal age of consent.

[AllisonWalker]

I don't think 21 is a big deal.
There should be a federal age of consent, for sure.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I don't think 21 is a big deal.
There should be a federal age of consent, for sure.

I don't think it's a HUGE deal either, it's just that, like I said, it feels a little condescending when I have adult friends who can go ahead and order a drink but I can't. Not that it'll matter in a month, but I had alcohol in Europe... there shouldn't be any reason for me, or a lot of people for that matter, to not get their own drink if they're in college and hanging out with all sorts of people.

[Fat1Fared]

Fat,

The words "any" and "real" are not synonymous. They're not even antonyms. Please don't react that way... :/



=Well that was my dyslexia adding in words which were not there, so for that, I am sorry, revision must be catching up with me
=but I was not acting in anyway, my point stands you said any moral character, this still implies that there is some stance of morals which apply to all, which there is not.
=So the only logical thing you really could say is which would work as comment, is it annoys poeple with moral views which are similar to my own anything else is applying your subjective morals standing to others which doesn;t work

=Allison, I think Sally saying, how is it, that someone like me has been allowed to drink for 2 years already, when she is older and still not allowed to drink, personally I think 21 is too old because it is in your teenage years you learn where you limit with drink is and still have lessening of responability in world, which means you can make few more mistakes and recover from it, as well still got lot of support from those people around you, by 21 you likely to have completely left home and got job, meaning mistakes with drink can have far worse effects than mistakes if made them when only 18

[AllisonWalker]

I disagree. Unlike a stupid eighteen year old who'd still supported by your parents, you'll know better than to get completely wasted because no one is going to be there to pick up the mess you've made.

Most teens have had some sort of drink at home with family, so it's not like everyone at 21 is a completely virgin to alcohol.

[MrsSallyBakura]

My dad wouldn't, and doesn't, let me drink at home because I'm not 21 yet, even though it's legal for me to drink at home in the state of Michigan.

And honestly, the people who would get wasted like that are also the kind of people who would drink underage. If people want to get drunk, they don't wait until it's legal to do it. They just do it.

And I've never been the type of person who wanted to drink to get drunk either. But that's just me.

Also, I don't think the drinking age should be 18. 19 or 20 would be better in American culture.

[JesusRocks]

As per my experience... well, seeing my friends get wasted at least... the level of drinking they did tended to go down once it was legal for them to drink. The whole thrill of the thing was the fact that they were underage and it was illegal.

[Fat1Fared]

My dad wouldn't, and doesn't, let me drink at home because I'm not 21 yet, even though it's legal for me to drink at home in the state of Michigan.

And honestly, the people who would get wasted like that are also the kind of people who would drink underage. If people want to get drunk, they don't wait until it's legal to do it. They just do it.

And I've never been the type of person who wanted to drink to get drunk either. But that's just me.

Also, I don't think the drinking age should be 18. 19 or 20 would be better in American culture.

-Well this basically all right in my opinion, other than last bit, while I cannot really judge US culture in this way, I do not agree with your opinion that because still in school, should not allowed to drink, techically in most of Europe, we are still in school till 18 <its just we have collage, then uni level, rather than straight school-uni> and most of us turn out fine and get through our exam's fine and those who don't would not listen to law anyway, so why punish those who responable enough to look out for themselves.

=Another point, I like add, in UK, we can legally drink cider in a pub if with are with 1 person over age over 18 and have food with drink and most European countries (england included, last I checked) allow home drinking from 14, the thing is, for most people drinking at home IE a glass of wine with dinner, is completely different to actually drinking socially=Just something throw out there

=I think personally, the whole of US cutlure is too restrictive on their youth and keep them young for far too long, by time most get to 18-19 here, it out house and find own way in world and can safetly say that was massive help for me, because forced me to be responsible for myself, I know that being under perential supervision, did not teach me responsibility, it restricted my learning, because in the end, the only way we can learn to live, is by living and I think a point this begs is, if I can go out, live on my own, pay my own rent, manage my own money, work a job (with lot of responsibility,> cook, wash, drink, study a uni course and generally run my own life completely at 18, why is it, the US doesn't even trust its youth to drink at 18, let alone go and find own way in world?

JR that is something I noticed with some people, but they tended to be again the ones who are small "irresponsible" groups, who it seems unfair to restrict rest of us because of?

[maisetofan]

wait is this a drinking thread or a sexual consent thread or both?

18 is a good age, it works over here....well they are thinking of putting the drinking age up to 20 again in new zealand like it used to be until 1999 when they lowered it

sex here has always been illegal until the age of 16 here, but years ago it was most likely 18

[AllisonWalker]

=I think personally, the whole of US cutlure is too restrictive on their youth and keep them young for far too long, by time most get to 18-19 here, it out house and find own way in world and can safetly say that was massive help for me, because forced me to be responsible for myself, I know that being under perential supervision, did not teach me responsibility, it restricted my learning, because in the end, the only way we can learn to live, is by living and I think a point this begs is, if I can go out, live on my own, pay my own rent, manage my own money, work a job (with lot of responsibility,> cook, wash, drink, study a uni course and generally run my own life completely at 18, why is it, the US doesn't even trust its youth to drink at 18, let alone go and find own way in world?

That's a shitload of assumptions, Fared.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Well technically, most people after they graduate high school go out and move someplace else for college. Stay in a dorm with other college students.

The main reason why a lot of high school graduates live at home during college/university is because they don't have any money. It isn't about parents not trusting their kids. Remember that education isn't funded that well in the US.

As for the school thing, also remember that most students graduate high school while they are 18. The only reason why I personally wouldn't make it 18 is because if a high school senior can legally purchase alcohol, the more likely it is for underage students at the high school to be exposed to alcohol in a party setting.
I think that's probably why they bumped the legal drinking age back to 21, because too many high school students were getting drunk, legally and illegally.

[softdevelopment]

How about 19 then lol, coz 21 is well, you know, too much of a wait :p

[JesusRocks]

JR that is something I noticed with some people, but they tended to be again the ones who are small "irresponsible" groups, who it seems unfair to restrict rest of us because of?

My point was that bringing the US drinking age down to 18 would not necessarily cause more people to drink, but instead remove the thrill some people get from drinking illegally, and thus lowering the amount of drinking done.

[Fat1Fared]

My point was that bringing the US drinking age down to 18 would not necessarily cause more people to drink, but instead remove the thrill some people get from drinking illegally, and thus lowering the amount of drinking done.

Sorry, bad comment on my part, I was in rush, basically I was agreeing with you and saying that the agrument, that poeple ain't irresponable enough and will do it it for trills, over top,....etc only punishes wrong poeple

[AllisonWalker]

My point was that bringing the US drinking age down to 18 would not necessarily cause more people to drink, but instead remove the thrill some people get from drinking illegally, and thus lowering the amount of drinking done.

It used to be 18 and they changed it because young teens were getting trashed at sixteen and seventeen.

[MrsSallyBakura]

It used to be 18 and they changed it because young teens were getting trashed at sixteen and seventeen.

Because in America, 18 year olds are still in high school and therefore surrounded by those 16 and 17 year olds.

But 21 is just too old compared to the rest of the major countries in the world.

I live about an hour away from Ontario, Canada, where the drinking age is 19. If I had a car, gas money, a friend to stay with, and time, I could just cross the border and grab a drink every once in a while. People around here go to Canada to drink all the time (except maybe not so much now that you need a passport/enhanced driver's license in order to cross).

I don't really understand why it needed to get bumped all the way back to 21.

[AllisonWalker]

They say it's because at twenty-one, the brain is generally done developing.

[darkarcher]

They say it's because at twenty-one, the brain is generally done developing.

Developing, yes. Maturing, no.

[MrsSallyBakura]

They say it's because at twenty-one, the brain is generally done developing.

Developing, yes. Maturing, no.

^ This.

I'm trying to find a post that TPishek made about how it's not done maturing until you're 26.

And I thought it was only women's brains that were done developing at 21, whereas men were done developing later.

[AllisonWalker]

Men can't drink until 26.
:V

[Dalord]

whoa that idea is crazy. Drinking age at 16 next thing you know it they change it to 10 like in "Little Nicky." The only place I could think of that the legal limit is as low as 16 is France. Because their water is Terible.

[MrsSallyBakura]

whoa that idea is crazy. Drinking age at 16 next thing you know it they change it to 10 like in "Little Nicky." The only place I could think of that the legal limit is as low as 16 is France. Because their water is Terible.

The topic is about legal age in general... like to be a legal adult and stuff, become an adult US citizen.

Drinking age just came up because it's slightly relevant to the topic as well.

And yeah, drinking ages are lower in countries with crappy water.

[maisetofan]

The topic is about legal age in general... like to be a legal adult and stuff, become an adult US citizen.

Drinking age just came up because it's slightly relevant to the topic as well.

And yeah, drinking ages are lower in countries with crappy water.

na ah not true
new zealand has some of the nicest drinking water ever especially where i live, its beautiful, you can drink it straight out the tap, no aftertaste or metalic chlorine taste or anything, well compared to australia anyway and the drinking age is not low but its not high either
although they are thinking of making it 20 so maybe, but until then i would not say 18 is very high or 16 is high at all for consensual sex

[LordZorc]

It's already 16 here in North Carolina... Apparently...

Though I think it should be 18.

[Fat1Fared]

Allison though I am sure there is both a comprehensive answer to my question and a wonderful rebuttal to my point, I am afraid, I am simply too inarticulate to understand it, so I will have to imply a lot of stuff into what you have said, based on my pure interpretation of it and if make a mistake, please do not be offended, I am simply not as smart or eloquent as you yes, I know, stop being obnoxious

=So you say there is lot of assumptions on my part, but if we split my statements into 4 sections based on my own paragraphs, I cannot see your point:

1= I said that in England we can drink while still in school and the world does not end for us, so I do not see sally's point about schools, but also stated at the very start, I cannot judge the US in this way, so unless you are stating that is assumption which I am wrong about, thus making a double positive of your sentence in regards to mine, meaning I can judge US in this way, I cannot see your point being related to this.

2=This is a statement about the fact that legally we can drink before 18 technically here with no further comment, it was a statement of fact for others to make own opinion on and the second part was that drinking in your home with your parents is different to drinking on a night out, now I can state that is true 99.9% of time (not real fact, before anyone says anything) because I know very few people who's parents will have a home like a pub or nightclub with hundreds to possibly even thousands of strangers randomally within it, dancing, drinking, playin loud music and sleeping night away...etc and with 99% of these people leaving at end of night "very" drunk, so I believe my statement here that drinking with your parsents at home is not like drinking on a night out, is a fair enough comment to hold true most of time, of course I do not know all parsents or households in the world and so suppose maybe one or two which do break this rule, but not enough to make your comment a fair one in regards to this one.

3=Here I stated that it was my opinion that US was too restrictive on its youth, so again your comment creates a double positive here, so doubt what meant, so then if move onto next part, I stated several facts about my own life and so I think we can all agree, I do not asumme much about my own life in regards to this matter, so will not accept that works here and finally, I asked a question. Which begs the question, how can a question be an assumption when its very foundation of existence is to show an admittance to a lack of knowledge and an expressed wish for enlightenment of such knowledge.
=Also, no has answered the question, why is it, that when I can be 99.9% my own man at 18 (and I know poeple who left home younger than that,) the US government, thinks 18 year old cannot even be trusted to look after themselves in regards to drink? (I think fair question and I honestly do not know the answer, which is why I asked it, because I do think a lot of you are putting a lot of faith into the judgements of politicians here and if you agree shouldn't drink till 21 or even 26, do not do so, but remember to judge others by own moral standing is something to be done with care (not saying, never done, just with great care))

4=Final comment, was agreeing with JR and stating that I do not believe fair the whole get punished for the mistakes of the few, now you may not agree with this opinion, but that is why it is opinion IE belief, not fact

=Also, can I make the point that this thing about water is strange one???? Yes maybe 100 years ago that held up in the western world, but when consider that most Islamic countries do not drink on religious grows and that we now know alcohol dehydrates you, I would say such a link is tenious at best, (maybe link to some of south Ame

[Underling]

And I thought it was only women's brains that were done developing at 21, whereas men were done developing later.

Makes sense, a woman's brain has less to develop... :smiley1:

[Kanap]

This is way more stimulating than writing my paper but hmmm...
I still want to know what school has to do with the drinking age?

[Spoofs3]

They say it's because at twenty-one, the brain is generally done developing.

Which is complete bullshit :thatface:
I believe I saw on an interesting show called QI that drinking alcohol does little damange to the brain... Only EXCESSIVE drinking slows down the creation of new cells.
In fact, In a study done in Sweden where two groups of mice, shows that the mice given alcohol have their brain cells growing faster.
Ok, Let's be honest, doing anything in excessive harms the body, Not only drinking, In moderation helps it. Doesn't really matter and people tend to see the cons more often than the Pros as the cons kinda tend to be more serious than the pros (EG: Death due to drink driving and alcohol excession VS. the extra health benefit to drinking 2 units per day (A can of beer, Glass of wine))

The real reason it is 21 is because the US federal government wanted to standardize it in the 1980's and chose the age of 21 as it used to be the standard age for most states Pre-1960's before they started lowering it to 19, 20, 18 whatever.


And yeah, drinking ages are lower in countries with crappy water.

I AGREE, FUCK DENMARK, FRANCE, GREECE, ITALY AND NORWAY FOR HAVING CRAPPY WATER AND NO DRINKING AGE :thatface:

[AllisonWalker]

Eh. Too many kids would abuse the lower drinking age and we have enough drunk driving accidents as it is.

[Spoofs3]

Eh. Too many kids would abuse the lower drinking age and we have enough drunk driving accidents as it is.

Maybe it is just my Ignorant European mind, but not many "Kids" abuse the lower drinking age over here, Turns out most "Kids" who get absolutely pissed are the "Kids" BELOW the drinking age.
SO guess what? People above 18 tend not to go out and get drunk for the sake of getting drunk.
Of course there are always exceptions.
Of course, Ignore me and my European Mind, I have no clue what you US-Americans are like =S

[AllisonWalker]

I don't trust kids who just got their driver's licenses two years before and are partying from finishing high school/entering college to drink. I've heard stories about the "good old days" of drinking at eighteen and it wasn't good.

[Spoofs3]

I don't trust kids who just got their driver's licenses two years before and are partying from finishing high school/entering college to drink. I've heard stories about the "good old days" of drinking at eighteen and it wasn't good.

I personally do not ANYBODY with a drivers license to drink :thatface:
I also do not trust anybody celebrating anything to drink.
I've heard stories of the "good" modern days in the US-America and drinking at 21 and it wasn't good :thatface:
The point is, There is not that much of a mental jump between 18 and 21, so here's an idea, Why not RAISE it if you fear people drinking at this age? It is proven that Young Males cause the largest percentage of Car Crashes so why not just ban them until they are... Why not 28?
Females being involved in much less drunk accidents shall have the privaledge of being able to drink at 25.
There everybody happy?
Course not =P
Once again, Sorry if I am misunderstanding the great US-American culture and land of the Free and all that jazz, But I just believe it is unreasonable.

The arguement saying "It causes car crashes" is incorrect... Sort of
Of course it causes car crashes, But the number 1 cause of Car crashes in the US is... Fatigued Drivers, Not Drunk Drivers.
So why all the fuss about Drunk Drivers and yet nobody is trying to enforce people just god damned sleeping before a car journey?
Also a little fact for ya, Drivers between the age of 21-24 are the most prone to drinking and driving, The accident rates continue quite highly up to 34. So if you are afraid of giving 18's the freedom of drinking, Let's just hold that thought up until the age of 34 when they are no longer a threat, Shall we?

The arguement saying you are afraid that "Kids" in college are drinking I am afraid is... Unreasonable. Why is this? The majority of College headmasters OPPOSE the 21 drinking age, They feel that they can trust their college students as adults and many feel they can be trusted with a bit of alcohol every now and again. Also, Many colleges send some students abroad, Very often to countries with a lower drinking age so it turns out they are drinking anyways, The headmasters do not really mind. Surely they should have the most say on what the college students - IN THEIR COLLEGES - actually do.

The idea of the "Good old days" And drinking at 18 is just silly old Superstition, Why? The majority of US-American states that changed their drinking age to 18 was during the early 1970's and let's be honest, Anything liberal from US-America was taken overboard near THAT Era (Free love, Lots of drugs, Fight the power and shit)
You cannot honestly compare different eras, Especially from one of the US's most Liberal eras to modern day times.
Once again, Maybe it is just me being an idiotic young Irishperson who celebrates European nationalism too much, But it seems silly =S

[AllisonWalker]

The point is, There is not that much of a mental jump between 18 and 21, so here's an idea, Why not RAISE it if you fear people drinking at this age? There is a huge difference in terms of life experience and living. Most 21 year olds aren't living under the guardianship of their parents.

So why all the fuss about Drunk Drivers and yet nobody is trying to enforce people just god damned sleeping before a car journey? They have rest stops all over the highways to stop people from doing that sort of thing.

There's enough kids out there driving drunk. Maybe there's less eighteen year olds getting busted for drinking and driving because they can't legally drink yet.

The arguement saying you are afraid that "Kids" in college are drinking I am afraid is... Unreasonable. Why is this? The majority of College headmasters OPPOSE the 21 drinking age, They feel that they can trust their college students as adults and many feel they can be trusted with a bit of alcohol every now and again. Also, Many colleges send some students abroad, Very often to countries with a lower drinking age so it turns out they are drinking anyways, The headmasters do not really mind. Surely they should have the most say on what the college students - IN THEIR COLLEGES - actually do.

They bust kids at Michigan State University for being caught with Alochol under-age.

People don't stopped acting irresponsible, no matter the decade or what the political climate is, unless when they are presented with no parental control. It's kinda funny to watch.

[Spoofs3]

There is a huge difference in terms of life experience and living. Most 21 year olds aren't living under the guardianship of their parents.

They have rest stops all over the highways to stop people from doing that sort of thing.

There's enough kids out there driving drunk. Maybe there's less eighteen year olds getting busted for drinking and driving because they can't legally drink yet.

They bust kids at Michigan State University for being caught with Alochol under-age.

People don't stopped acting irresponsible, no matter the decade or what the political climate is, unless when they are presented with no parental control. It's kinda funny to watch.

Last I checked, Living under the gaurdianship of parents and underage drinking had NOTHING in common...

Rest stops, And yet it is STILL the highest causes of crashes, What a shame there isn't higher forcement of sleeping.

Possibly there are less being caught because not being able to drink, But that does not explain why the rates of Drunk-Driving in so high, Right up into the age of 30.

Yet Michigan State University is one University, Headmasters of Universities were probably the most vocal against the age of 21 when the standardizing of drinking ages came into effect during the 1980's.

Yes, People don't stop acting irresponsible, But there is an amazing thing here. Drunk Driving has decreased on a whole. Not just in the US, But all over the world. In fact, Since 1982, Drink Driving accidents have been on a steady decrease since 1982, No large changes were made in that era concerning the drinking age, it was standardized in 1980.
They have figured out one amazing thing, You can place precautions in to lower accidents, But extreme regluations never work, Was figured out during Prohibition in the US, Should be figured out soon aswell.

[AllisonWalker]

Not directly connected, but kids aren't going to do as many stupid things if their parents will find out and punish them.

You can't really "force" people not to drive while sleepy.

18-30 would be when most people aren't strapped down with kids, so they're more likely to have time for partying. An older adult is more likely to be drinking at home.

In Europe or the United States? MSU is a huge, major University.

So why lower the age and risk accidents? Is a drink worth potentially killing people?

[LordZorc]

And as far as the drinking age goes (since it seems to have come up too) I agree with what my civics teacher said: "It should be lowered to 18. If you're old enough to take a bullet for your country, you should be old enough to take a drink."

[AllisonWalker]

If you're serving your country, the last thing you need in your system is alcohol.

[Fat1Fared]

If you're serving your country, the last thing you need in your system is alcohol.

yes because taking one drink means your drunk for life <facepalm> (before you attack this comment on its own, read whole thing or just call me obnoxious, ether don't go for comment on its own), though I am not biggest fan of the American army after it managed to kill more English soldiers than the Iraq army in the Iraq "war" I actually have enough faith in it, to believe that it will make sure none of its troops are drunk while actually fighting and lets face it, your whole argument is flawed:-

1=As well as the above, in WW1, one of the reasons germany lost was because they banned their troops from drinking, which caused massive moral problems and meant they took a load of British alcohol filled trenches and told couldn't touch it, their were several different rebellions resulting in half their armies getting completely wasted and then destroyed the next day, Moral of the story, small of amount of bad thing is better than trying to stop the whole lot

2=Drink driving=Has no place here, not saying, not bad thing, but there is something called the higerachy of law, on the rare times criminals take notice of the law, they take notice of the law which has most serious reprocessions for them, IE here that not allowed to drink drive has far more serious sentence than underaged drinking, so we can safety say that if someone is going to ignore drink driving rules, the fact underaged as well, not going to have much effect here, which means the law is punishing the wrong poeple, AKA the responsible ones, and the law in place here is the drink driving law, not underaged drinking law, making drink driving a moot point

3=Teenagers are not responsible enough to drink, well think spoofs has countered this well and notice you still have not actually said why I can be classed an adult at 18 and you cannot even drink till 21?
=But will add this, most teenagers are responsible enough to drink and the few who are not, will ignore this law anyway, making it only restrict those who need no restrictions, which is pointless to the point of being wrong and the chances are, if someone has done a crime so bad as to make poeple wish to ban drink, then they did something illegal, meaning once again come under the higherachy of law effect.

=Like said, if you do not feel responsible enough to drink till 21 don't, but do not drag others down with you, I know that most of people on this site from US cannot drink, but I would trust them with one (not saying they show whole of US, but my point is, there are lots of poeple who can handle drinking, why are they being stopped?)

[AllisonWalker]

yes because taking one drink means your drunk for life
Alcoholics.

[JesusRocks]

Alcoholics.

"Your alcoholic dad"

http://img.youtube.com/vi/EPUk_T6PpiQ/0.jpg

[AllisonWalker]

He's not my padre, silly man.

[JesusRocks]

He's not my padre, silly man.

He said it, not me :V

[AllisonWalker]

He said it, not me :V

>:|

[maisetofan]

Makes sense, a woman's brain has less to develop... :smiley1:

Oh no u didnt....

[Anna-aurion]

I personally say it's a bad idea, because I know a lot of people younger than me, I'm 19 by the way, who are VERY immature for their age.

So I believe it should be at least 18 or 19.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I personally say it's a bad idea, because I know a lot of people younger than me, I'm 19 by the way, who are VERY immature for their age.

So I believe it should be at least 18 or 19.

You know, I quite agree...

This is because people are aging more slowly these days. Studies have shown that people in their early twenties can still feel like an older teenager, mentally.

People are staying younger longer.

[Spoofs3]

Personally I'd prefer it to be 21 than 19, But I'd prefer it to be 18 than 21
My reasoning? Once again, not a big leap of mental age between 18 and 21, NONE AT ALL between 18 and 19 =P
So to be honest, reducing it to 19 is more of an insult to people who believe it should be 18 than a blessing... Maybe that is just me and my stubborness =S

[Anreyla]

Well, I haven't poked my head into this conversation, and it's not too old, so I'll try my hand at it and see what happens.

I personally believe that making the legal age 16 is, in and of itself, not a necessarily bad idea, the problem is the people. Some people will have sex with minors, regardless of statute laws, and teens will have sex whether we want them to or not. Good sex education (something that seems to be lacking?) also never hurts- none of that abstinence training nonsense, it does more damage than its worth, I'm talking about actual sex ed. I took sex ed in... sheesh, fifth grade, and they just told us about the body parts and such, nothing about it again after that.

I don't understand the point of having the drinking age at 21, honestly. I'm not interested in drinking in the least bit, (nor am I interested in smoking, but that's a different paragraph) but I still think the drinking age should be 18. Sure, it means that high school seniors can legally drink (or some can, anyway), but so what? It's not like they're permitted to do it on campus, and what they do in the privacy of their own home (or at a party) really isn't the school's concern if no one is injured. Heck, at my high school, you're not allowed to have tobacco on campus, even if you're 18.

Speaking of tobacco... Smoking, 18, sure, whatever. I don't condone it by any means-- I hate smoking-- but if you want to smoke, it's none of my concern, so long as you don't do it around me. Like I mentioned, we're not allowed to do it on campus anymore, even if we are 18, not that I'm complaining or anything.

Also, since I saw a mention of it while cruising through the thread... Religion has no correlation with how good a person you are. I haven't smoked, drank, had sex, or generally done anything considered 'bad', and I'm an atheist, have been for years now. In fact, most of, if not all, the people I know who do smoke/drink/have sex are devoutly religious, so what does that say? You can't really judge someone's goodness by their religious nature, or lack thereof.... Sorry about that, felt the need to get it off my chest.

Anyway, I'll wrap this up, at least as quickly as possible. I think it'd just be easier and far more simple to place everything at 18 and call it a done deal. People are going to have problems with sex, drugs, and rock n r-- I mean, alcohol no matter what the laws are, it's inevitable, does that mean it should affect everyone's rights? I don't think so.

{Oh, and if it wasn't obvious from some of the statements, I'm a freshman in high school.}

[maisetofan]

And yet painkillers which do more damage than Sedatives and pot, are sold legally to kids as young as fourteen.
The amount of paracetamol poisonings in the western world is at an all time high. The reason?
Well you place "hillbilly" heroin as its known on the counter at the pharmacy and in supermarkets and you have a recipe for liver failure and kidney disease.

I was in hospital last year with a seventeen year old girl who had gone from one supermarket to another buying codeine with paracetamol in it and then she took the lot, and ended up screaming in pain, while her face, hands and under eyes were completely yellow from the jaundice.
They wheeled her out into ICU but it was too late, i heard she died the next day.

It has put me off taking pain killers even for a headache
Asprin, Advil, codeine, Panadol and panadeine are all dangerous and should be classed as narcotics since codeine is an opioid anyway, you add them to alcohol and I would not be surprised if your liver burst.
Odd how people assume its the kidneys that go first when the liver gets the inflammation first, i know as i have had inflammation of the liver because the doctor told me it was fine to take up to eight pain killers a day for headaches and such, WRONG, the nurses who had seen case after case of pain killer related deaths or liver problems disagreed with that statement

My point is, If drinking and Smoking are limited to a certain age, Pain medication should also be restricted and also only sold in small doses.
In both australia and new zealand you can buy boxes of the stuff and no one questions it :rageface:

Mind you Australasia has the highest rate of painkiller induced suicide in the western world supposedly

[MrsSallyBakura]

Just one thing:

Good sex education (something that seems to be lacking?) also never hurts- none of that abstinence training nonsense, it does more damage than its worth, I'm talking about actual sex ed. I took sex ed in... sheesh, fifth grade, and they just told us about the body parts and such, nothing about it again after that.

First of all, I have a friend who is studying to be a health administration teacher at a public university, and she says that statistics actually show that abstinence education is the best kind of sex education, as in, it causes the least number of pregnancies and it makes the number of teenagers who have sex drop.

By abstinence education, I mean teaching people not to have sex until marriage, yet also including what kind of contraception is available and what it does, so there's none of that "condoms don't work" garbage.

Although you do bring up a legit point in your last sentence. A lot of us don't get enough sex education at all. It should start in 5th/6th grade and continue as the students get more mature and are biologically ready to have sex in the first place. Some people wait until high school to teach anything at all, which is problematic because people start having sex in middle school.

[maisetofan]

I agree that Sex education is important, we had it over here in what you guys would call 6th grade. Having known a lot of people who have had sex young or become pregnant or worse (been diagnosed with cervical cancer and STD's etc) in a way that always put me off having sex at a young age. For one it would hurt like crazy no matter what the myths about tampons and so forth say. For most girls it hurts the first time, another reason why age is a factor, the older you are the more well i am not going to go into it but the more developed you are so to speak

anyways I guess you never know really until you try it
Although i am happy (sort of) to wait

[Anreyla]

Just one thing:



First of all, I have a friend who is studying to be a health administration teacher at a public university, and she says that statistics actually show that abstinence education is the best kind of sex education, as in, it causes the least number of pregnancies and it makes the number of teenagers who have sex drop.

By abstinence education, I mean teaching people not to have sex until marriage, yet also including what kind of contraception is available and what it does, so there's none of that "condoms don't work" garbage.

Although you do bring up a legit point in your last sentence. A lot of us don't get enough sex education at all. It should start in 5th/6th grade and continue as the students get more mature and are biologically ready to have sex in the first place. Some people wait until high school to teach anything at all, which is problematic because people start having sex in middle school.

When I mentioned abstinence training, I meant the kind that says "don't have sex until marriage" and don't bother to teach the kids about contraception or blatantly lie about it {Eg. Condoms don't work}. Sure, you can tell kids not to have sex until they're married-- some won't care if you tell them not to have sex or not, but some will. I remember in seventh grade I saw a girl about my age who was in her third trimester... I just, I didn't even know what to say to that.

I had sex education in fifth grade, and it was only about "parts", nothing beyond that, which proves to be problematic when you get seventh graders getting preggo {as in the previous example}. Our district requires us to take health in high school, which involves sex ed., but by then, most kids are already having sex, anyway. I know a girl at my school who was freaking out just recently because she thought she might be pregnant {she's 15}.

I agree that Sex education is important, we had it over here in what you guys would call 6th grade. Having known a lot of people who have had sex young or become pregnant or worse (been diagnosed with cervical cancer and STD's etc) in a way that always put me off having sex at a young age. For one it would hurt like crazy no matter what the myths about tampons and so forth say. For most girls it hurts the first time, another reason why age is a factor, the older you are the more well i am not going to go into it but the more developed you are so to speak

anyways I guess you never know really until you try it
Although i am happy (sort of) to wait

Hurrayyy for teenage hormones and a lack of control over them, eh? I haven't seen anyone with issues like cervical cancer or STD's yet, but I'm sure it'll happen at some point or another in my four years. I've heard enough about pregnancies, and seen a few myself already.

Kids are going to have sex whether we want them to or not, that's not going to change, but we could at least try to minimize the number of incidents, if possible. There was a case in my younger cousins school where one of her classmates was pregnant, and that was when she was in fifth grade...

[maisetofan]

fifth grade? 0_0 wow thats young!!!!

[MrsSallyBakura]

I had sex ed in 5th and 6th grade. In 8th grade we had this... Catholic sister who had never had sex in her life... she taught us about chastity and stuff. 80% of it was a waste of time because she said some stuff that wasn't true and treated us like we were 11. :/

In 9th grade we had a speaker come in and tell us the reasons to wait for marriage. I liked him a lot and if I could pick one thing that convinced me to do that, it was that guy.

[TitanAura]

The term "good sex education" does not exist because it's based solely what the parents have taught their children. The school system might educate kids about sex but they will never, ever, ever, ever convince them one way or another what their sexual tendencies should be. Now while my views on sex are far too extreme as with everything I have an opinion on (my opinion as it stands is that the wrong penis should stop going into the wrong vagina which includes every existing person on the face of the earth and just let our species die out.... the earth would thank us), it's easier said than done to making the raging hormones of batshit insane teenagers stop dead in its tracks. Therefore the only solution is fire. *pulls cast-iron chastity belt out of forge*

[MrsSallyBakura]

I don't think my parents actually taught me themselves when I should have sex, except probably mention while teaching me about sex that it's for marriage, but there wasn't, like, a huge discussion about it. I know that's what my parents believed in, but by the time I was old enough to start thinking differently (high school), the speaker at my school convinced me.

It's different for everybody, but it goes to show that schools can make a difference.

[darkarcher]

It's different for everybody, but it goes to show that schools can make a difference.

While that may indeed be the case, schools shouldn't have to make that difference. I agree with Titan that parents should be heavily involved in the sexual education of their children, and school programs really should only serve as a supplement to that.

[MrsSallyBakura]

While that may indeed be the case, schools shouldn't have to make that difference. I agree with Titan that parents should be heavily involved in the sexual education of their children, and school programs really should only serve as a supplement to that.

I didn't say that they had to, and I do agree that parents should be involved in teaching their children. But the very fact that many parents aren't involved unfortunately leaves a bit of a burden on schools.

It shouldn't be that way, but that's how it is, and I'm not really certain how we can change that. At this point for many students it's either the schools or nothing. :/

[TitanAura]

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4633/82698655.jpg

[maisetofan]

While that may indeed be the case, schools shouldn't have to make that difference. I agree with Titan that parents should be heavily involved in the sexual education of their children, and school programs really should only serve as a supplement to that.

I agree, my parents told me about sex and were very open to any questions i had, which is another reason I chose to abstain. If i was kept in the dark about it i would have been much more suspicious and probably done it without even knowing what i was getting myself into

I am not saying "everyone abstain" blah blah blah that is just for me
But knowing what you are doing and being of a mental age where you are aware of the risks involved and using protection is the most important thing to remember

[Autopsy Gremlin]

I think it should be left up to the states, but 16 does seem like a pretty good age to do it.

It's the legal age here in Michigan, but I do know a lot of teenage parents... Hmm.

It's not illegal unless a minor does it with someone over the age of consent. This is, of course, to prevent pedophilia. So teenagers can screw each other all they like...it's not a good idea, but neither is alcohol.

[maisetofan]

Lol changing the subject for one minute, i find it ironic that the "Freedom of expression" thread got closed. Kind of defeats the purpose don't you think?

[darkarcher]

Lol changing the subject for one minute, i find it ironic that the "Freedom of expression" thread got closed. Kind of defeats the purpose don't you think?

It was dead for a month. People are free to make another thread on the topic, but there can be problems if people try to argue against posts made months ago.

Back on topic.

[maisetofan]

Fair enough

[HarleyThomas1002]

And yet painkillers which do more damage than Sedatives and pot, are sold legally to kids as young as fourteen.
The amount of paracetamol poisonings in the western world is at an all time high. The reason?
Well you place "hillbilly" heroin as its known on the counter at the pharmacy and in supermarkets and you have a recipe for liver failure and kidney disease.

I was in hospital last year with a seventeen year old girl who had gone from one supermarket to another buying codeine with paracetamol in it and then she took the lot, and ended up screaming in pain, while her face, hands and under eyes were completely yellow from the jaundice.
They wheeled her out into ICU but it was too late, i heard she died the next day.

It has put me off taking pain killers even for a headache
Asprin, Advil, codeine, Panadol and panadeine are all dangerous and should be classed as narcotics since codeine is an opioid anyway, you add them to alcohol and I would not be surprised if your liver burst.
Odd how people assume its the kidneys that go first when the liver gets the inflammation first, i know as i have had inflammation of the liver because the doctor told me it was fine to take up to eight pain killers a day for headaches and such, WRONG, the nurses who had seen case after case of pain killer related deaths or liver problems disagreed with that statement

My point is, If drinking and Smoking are limited to a certain age, Pain medication should also be restricted and also only sold in small doses.
In both australia and new zealand you can buy boxes of the stuff and no one questions it :rageface:

Mind you Australasia has the highest rate of painkiller induced suicide in the western world supposedly

Woah, woah, there. Codeine? I broke my collar bone back in grade 8 (three-four years ago) and I had to get a perscription for Tylenol 3's which are some hardcore painkillers containing codeine that'll knock you on your ass and this girl just up and went to Wal-Mart or whatever and bought some painkillers containing the same thing.

I'm not sure what country you're from (I assume the United States), but that's pretty fucked up.

And if you're worried about drinking and driving related deaths raise the legal driving age. There's one state (forgot which one) that raised the legal driving age to 17 and the rate of vehicle related deaths dropped by like 40-some percent.

While it won't stop people frim drinking and/or driving it should help in keeping people who shouldn't be on the road off the road for a little while.

As for the topic at hand about age of consent, it's pointless in a way as there isn't much anyone can do to enforce it unless the female ends up pregnant or someone gets a VD.

And if it was consentual even if the person was under aged the older person is gonna get a statutory rape charge and (if I am correct) a blue dot above their house.

Unless anyone and everyone just starts running out of the house and screams "I just got laid!"

[maisetofan]

NEW ZEALAND Do not assume anything on this forum D:

I am still against codeine and ibuprofen because of what it does or can do to the liver and i know people, friends and family who have given themselves paracetamol poisoning and got terrific stomach ulcers from pain killers :/

In moderation for a short period of time they are okay
But demerol and morphine are the number one type of pain killers and demerol is even used in women in labor however if over used or misused it kills

Celebrities get this sort of Doctor/hospital grade medication and take too much of it and they end up either dead or in a coma
it is just as bad as alcohol if you ask me, it rots the kidneys and the liver like alcohol does

Perhaps my view would be different if my mother did not get paracetamol poisoning years ago from being prescribed too much normal paracetamol by a flimsy doctor, also i have been in hospital for too much paracetamol in my system and inflammation of the liver and i was under doctors orders that eight pills per day for severe pain will not harm you, well it DOES and this type of pain killer is readily available over the counter without prescription and at supermarkets where teenagers can buy them and drink with them and end up dying in hospital screaming in pain (personal experience of being in a ward with a girl who did that) :(

[greymagick711]

My school is divided between two different cities, and there's different laws for the age for even being allowed into the bar. 19 in one city, but a block away it's 18.
>.>

Age for a licence to drive a car should be at least 16, for sure.
To drink, I would like it for it to be lowered, maybe to 18 or something.
For hotels, I find that different hotels allow different check-in ages (not sure about the whole room booking thing, though).

For consent? It seems more like the law is just for protection for the immature. Because, you know, there ARE virgins still at age 16 out there.