European Union: Vacations are a "human right"

[Gary]

More reasons why the United States should not emulate Europe.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7100943.ece

AN overseas holiday used to be thought of as a reward for a year’s hard work. Now Brussels has declared that tourism is a human right and pensioners, youths and those too poor to afford it should have their travel subsidised by the taxpayer.

Under the scheme, British pensioners could be given cut-price trips to Spain, while Greek teenagers could be taken around disused mills in Manchester to experience the cultural diversity of Europe.

The idea for the subsidised tours is the brainchild of Antonio Tajani, the European Union commissioner for enterprise and industry, who was appointed by Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister.

The scheme, which could cost hundreds of millions of pounds a year, is intended to promote a sense of pride in European culture, bridge the north-south divide in the continent and prop up resorts in their off-season.

Tajani, who unveiled his plan last week at a ministerial conference in Madrid, believes the days when holidays were a luxury have gone. “Travelling for tourism today is a right. The way we spend our holidays is a formidable indicator of our quality of life,” he said.

Tajani, who used to be transport commissioner, said he had been able to “affirm the rights of passengers” in his previous office and the next step was to ensure people’s “right to be tourists”.

The European Union has experience of subsidised holidays. In February the European parliament paid contributions of up to 52% towards an eight-day skiing trip in the Italian Alps for 80 children of Eurocrats.

Tajani’s programme will be piloted until 2013 and then put into full operation. It will be open to pensioners and anyone over 65, young people between 18 and 25, families facing “difficult social, financial or personal” circumstances and disabled people. The disabled and the elderly can be accompanied by one person.

In the initial phase, northern Europeans will be encouraged to visit southern Europe and vice versa. Details of how participants are chosen have not yet been finalised, but it is expected the EU will subsidise about 30% of the cost.

Officials have envisaged sending south Europeans to Manchester and Liverpool on a tour of “archeological and industrial sites” such as closed factories and power plants.

Tajani’s spokesman said: “Why should someone from the Mediterranean not be able to travel to Edinburgh in summer for a breath of cool, fresh air; why should someone from Edinburgh not be able to travel to Greece in winter?”

The idea is based on a project in Spain in which holidays in the winter off-season are subsidised by the government for European residents aged 55 and over. Spain calculated that for every €1 it spent in subsidies, €1.6 was gained for its resorts.

[TitanAura]

This was moderately humorous. Oh how the world wrongs those with expendable income those self-indulgent cunts.

[Underling]

Officials have envisaged sending south Europeans to Manchester and Liverpool on a tour of “archeological and industrial sites” such as closed factories and power plants.
Clearly you've misunderstood, and this is some new form of corporal punishment.

Besides, the thing that annoyed me the most was the dumbass American spelling of "archaeological".

[TitanAura]

Clearly you've misunderstood, and this is some new form of corporal punishment.

Besides, the thing that annoyed me the most was the dumbass American spelling of "archaeological".
Yeah we do that. Somehow our tiny American minds can't handle extra letters so we cut them out for no reason. Colour... olde... soccer (really messed up that one).... ethnic cleansing... It's all the same really.

[darkarcher]

Yeah we do that. Somehow our tiny American minds can't handle extra letters so we cut them out for no reason. Colour... olde... soccer (really messed up that one).... ethnic cleansing... It's all the same really.

I prefer the British English spelling of participles of -el verbs like travelled, levelled, etc.

On topic, this would be one of the most stupid reasons to tax the middle working class that I have ever heard of.

[Spoofs3]

As a European and NOT a US-American and thus would be able to give some reasons why it was put into place rather than just "Insult Europe" Time, I think I should help out.

THe EU has always had a sense of European Pride rather than national, It wants the peoples to mingle with other European peoples and cultures and always has.
In fact, Alot of European Pride dictates how the usual everyday life is run, For example, I cannot study English in College if I do not do a European language (HAS to be a European Language) It wants to bond Europeans together.

Europe in recent times is quite a left wing place, So it feels we all have a right to help everyone when we can. Even in ideas like this.

Also, Since this Scheme is helping people go places within Europe, THe money is being recycled in the Tourism Industry, an industry which practically fuels alot of European Countries, So although they will make a loss, It's not the most useless thing they've done.


Although I say these, I do not agree with it, There are easier and cheaper ways to give a sense of "European Pride" And whatnot, No need to spend this much monies =S

[that1guy2]

Though this may not be the best way to spend taxes, this is not a reason to not "emulate" Europe. They have way better health care, human rights, and education than the US. Americans (and I'm saying this AS an American) shouldn't dismiss everything Europe does as communist or fascist or whatever the hell. Anyway, I wouldn't mind getting more vacations... (hint, hint senators :tongue:)
I'll probably get a million of these:objection: for this...

[AllisonWalker]

>_>
Holidays are not a right. Pay for your own vacations.

And health care is better in Europe because they don't have 300million people to insure.

[Gary]

They have way better health care

Health care is not even the debate, health insurance is.

human rights

How do you have "better" human rights?

and education than the US.

Public education is the only problem, not education in general.

[AllisonWalker]

^Pretty much.

[niknnik]

As a British citezen of a middle class family... I find this stupid. The UK have always been slightly withdrawn from the EU (Apparently they call us the awkward relative). People understand the need to be in the EU, for economy reasons (unless you look at what's happened in Greece), but we don't want to get as involved as, say, Germany. People in the UK won't like this, even leftist supporters.
If the Lib Dems got into power next, they'd probably support this. I'm not sure Labour would. Conservatives would hate this and probably use it as a reason to vote for them.

I think it's good that the EU are trying even harder to encourage travel and tourism, but this wouldn't help. I can't imagine German or French citizens would be happy either, they've already put loads into the EU.

Anyway, it's not like America would or could join the EU anyway :V

[Draconia Dominus]

I agree with what most people said here. In history class, I've read about the United Nations Human Rights... and having vacations or anything along those lines is certainly not along those lines.

[Fat1Fared]

Ok, because this whole thing is basically just being, lets critisie the EU because ether we are english and hate EU or we are from USA and have massive inferiority complex about the EU now being more successful federation than us.

=First, no I do not personally think this plan is right way to implement this idea, but do I think the sentiments are completely wrong, no I do not, I mean why is it, I am allowed to see places all over the world, but someone else is not and before someone from the US says, they lazy and did not work.....etc...etc bullcrap, no, my real father works harder than anyone I know, but could never afford to take me to places my stepfather took me, but that is because my real father is factory worker, while my step-father is scientist and though both have worked very hard for what they have, my real father I worked lot harder and come out with less as meritocracy is a lie.

=So First, lets deal with human rights, No they are some innate or natural justice theory, in fact they are complete opposite to nature justice theories and were made as a way to move past those as ideals, in the end all they are is a legal theory and 1 ideal of a way for normal people to protect/accountable the states
PS and yes europe does have better human rights than US, because an European county will have to have at least 3 different convention's to endear to, while US has 1 and half, I say half because the American Convention treaty isn't worth paper it is written on but does exist.
=Anyway, first thing need to understand is that Human Rights do not just cover big things like "Right to Life"....etc, yes they are most important ones, but it is a lot more complex than that and their is something called the sliding scale of rights, now I will give 3 main areas of this, but intruth millions of them.

First have:

=Fundermental Rights=These are big ones like "Right to Life" and "Banning of Unusual and cruel Punishment" These are basically unbreachable, apart from in times of most extreme situations like war and even then, it cannot be used against own poeple, unless in defence of other poeple.

=Qualified Rights=These are ones which basically I actually think do more harm than good, but that is complex legal debate for my dissertation, not here, so move on basically these are very important things like Freedom of Speech, which need protection but can be blocked, if ether situation of normal running of democracy is threatened by its use (basically means if causes state more hassle than bothered to take) or if another right is threatened by it IE if my right to freedom of belief is threatened by anothers right to freedom of speech, then depending on different levels, freedom of speech could be blocked.

=Limited Rights=Now this is what this will come under, these are basically things which it is believed that everyone should at use a chance of having, but will have not extrinsic protection, more positive affirmation, another example is right to "healthier food" the government will not be expected to give everyone healthier, but will be expected to allow it be of easier assess (this actually very complicated area, but that is basic's of it) and so this is what this right will come under PS and won't be just be middle class, it will be everyones tax's, but that is moot point

=Ok so why is EU doing this?

=Simple, comes down to 3 points:

1=The Lisbon treaty really pee'ed a lot of people off, so EU knows it needs to give itself a smiley new face, in order to make people trust, specially in countries like UK and Spain, where all little cynical about it at best of times.

2=Holidays are good for Poeple, there not just a time to be lazy, they allow learning and understanding of other cultures and studies have shown that children who from early age are exposed to these extra learning environment do actually do better in their education and are more like to well developed and open to more new idea's and willing to try more things as well as go further in education...etc (This will also make europeans more close, meaning more unity, equalling more success, like Nik said, UK is the iffy uncle and EU doesn't want that, they may not like us, but would rather have us, than not)
-Also, the saying "a happy worker, is a hard worker" is true one, this why companies like Volvo and Eversheds spend millions making the perfect working environments, because want their employee's to happier and therefore more productive, and holidays make poeple happy, if their happy, more likely have good moral, means better worker and that means better ecomony, which means more money for EU (This idea is not a new one, it is actually one Hilter made in Germany and whatever say about hitler, he knew how to make good economy, sure he was insane, but still turned german from a blockhole to one of the richest countries in world in mere 4 years and that was because of things like this)

3=Finally, I won't go into this one as spoofs covered it, but Tourism is massive thing in Europe and so this will make lots more people go on holiday will mean for anyone who knows economic's, more money for the system,

=Now personally, like I said do I agree with this idea, no do I think the sentiments work, yes, but I feel putting more into school and company and community trips would be more effective as then make sure getting most out of holiday and less disgruntled middle class poeple moaning about tax's as system helps all

PS and before anyone says, Fared you do not like EU, your right I don't, doesn't mean I disagree with everything I say

[that1guy2]

health care is better in Europe because they don't have 300million people to insure.
That may be a factor, but they would probably do pretty badly on that front if they had the same plan as the US. Maybe a bit better with the new plan, but still not nearly as well as their current one.

Health care is not even the debate, health insurance is.
Health insurance affects who gets health care and how much they get, so it sort of is the argument...

How do you have "better" human rights?
By allowing gays to marry and serve in the military openly, and not have a racist immigration law like Arizona does now.

Public education is the only problem, not education in general.
Most people get their education publicly, not privately.

[that1guy2]

Onto the topic at hand:

I think being able to travel and see the world with your own eyes is a right to some extent. To clarify though, I am generally against spending tax money on it. This is a European issue though, so Americans won't effect whether this bill is passed or not. If a bill like this is ever introduced in the US (which is unlikely as it has TONS of stuff on its hands as it is) it will be immediately branded as Communist, just like every other public service is here, so I don't think the Americans here who are vehemently against it have anything to worry about.

[AllisonWalker]

It's not communist, it's stupid. Traveling is a privilege, not a right.

[that1guy2]

I agree that spending tax money on vacations is stupid. I do think that you could argue that taking vacations is a right, however.

[AllisonWalker]

Nope.
:)
Unless you're talking about breaks from work. That's not the same as traveling.

[Draconia Dominus]

You should pay for your vacations. Having 'holidays' may be beneficial for your heath, but having taxpayers pay for them is over the top.

Well, about vacations being a human right... it depends on what you define as a 'vacation'. One person can define it as a mere break from work. Another may say a vacation is travelling overseas for an extended period of time for leisure.

[Gary]

Health insurance affects who gets health care and how much they get, so it sort of is the argument...

Before Obama's bill, I only had health insurance for things like cancer and I was perfectly fine. If anything, too much insurance is problem.

By allowing gays to marry and serve in the military openly

Marriage is not a right and don't ask, don't tell is fine.

and not have a racist immigration law like Arizona does now.

The Arizona law is practically word for word the same exact law as the federal statute. Plus, it's only one state. If you are not an illegal alien you have nothing to hide.

Most people get their education publicly, not privately.

Okay? Your point?

[AllisonWalker]

Marriage is not a right and don't ask, don't tell is fine.
Why does anyone need to be open about their sexuality while serving in the military? That's not what you're there to do. Don't ask, don't tell is fine. :)

[FreakAzoid]

>_>
Holidays are not a right. Pay for your own vacations.

And health care is better in Europe because they don't have 300million people to insure.

No they have 831.4 million, instead including russia and turkey
Get your facts right before you post things you know nothing about

[AllisonWalker]

Europe is a continent, not a country.
Get you facts right before you post things you know nothing about.
V:

[FreakAzoid]

when did I say that it wasn't a country?
Learn to spell as well. Its Your not Youe

[AllisonWalker]

Who taught you grammar?

The continent of Europe doesn't ensure the people, its individual countries do.
So, your "point" is bull.

[Fat1Fared]

No Allison your point is bull, and you know F-all about how EU works, so how can you say that, if did know anything, you would know each county gets a windfalll payment to cover these things and that about 70% of the law which governs medical professsion now, is made in brussels

[AllisonWalker]

But it's not like all you Europeans are going under the same Healthcare system. It differs nation to nation.

[niknnik]

Actually, we have these things called European Health Insurance Cards (EHIC) which offers "access to a reduced-cost medical treatment" - Pretty much free, a lot of the time.

I don't agree with this new plan. But Travel and tourism is a big deal over here, particularly within the main EU countries. It helps economy as well as provide teachings on different cultures. I've been different European tons of times and only been out of Europe twice in my life. Half of my trips have been on school trips - Can Americans go to other nearby countries so simply, for a school trip?

It's very common over here to simply go to another country. I admit, it's not a right, but the EU are trying to encourage travel, to help the economy and improve relations

The EU is extremely beneficial to countries. Yes, you can look at Greece and say, clearly that didn't work. But first of all, they lied about they're economy. And second, the EU is helping them, collaboratively.

I said before, I really don't agree with this new idea. But I like the thinking behind it, that more and more people can travel. There's no point in having the privilege of an EU passport, with quick and easy access to countries, if you don't travel.

[Change of Heart]

hmm well I'm unsure about calling a vacation a right, I think it's a privilege just the same but true you shouldn't be forced to labour without some kind of break. I think Britain has quite a vast amount of vacation time and probably why some think of us as a lazy people while you see Americans working 24/7. But I think one of our problems is indeed stress, we're not relaxed or laid back like the continent and it dangerously affects our health. What's worse is working parents schedulising their time and that means a possible break up of the family, I mean what's a family without spending quality time with your unloved kids?

One think I love to stress is the abuse of the word Rights. Yes we all should have certain unalienable rights but I think at what cost? how much can it get abused? like minority rights...I think in the Netherlands a gay person got beaten up by muslims and it was the muslims that were seen as in the right because as a minority they had "rights" and shouldn't be discriminated against...laughable. And The Netherlands is the most liberal country of the EU!

Yes i'm Eurosceptic but there's a difference between EU bashing and hating Europe. Eurosceptics don't hate Europe, they mistrust the EU. Rightfully so, The UK has many grievances... our powers being stripped our laws now under EU court jurisdiction. Our fishing industry was crushed by EU regulation and fishing territorial rights were stripped. The free movement of peoples, opens the way for illegal immigration. Now I love travel and agree nothing wrong with migration or culture but nations tend to work within their self interests first. Britain wants to protect our culture from being eroded like any other country. I love culture and diversity but only as long as we recognise that the laws of the countries we're in are abided by and respected.

I love travelling I've been in Europe many times twice was a kid in Northern France and Majorca and twice on a class trip to Berlin and Italy.Both were excellent successes and I love trying out new languages.

However what I mistrust is EU government...this shadowy administration of the faceless masses. These bureaucrats and home grown politicians pocketing Europes taxpayers money (i.e. Lord Kinnock or Lord Mandelson why not?).

Now we're separated by our languages and cultures but I think if anything we're united by music hence Eurovision, I like. Europe has been united by classical music in the past and now pop and other genres.

Now lets not say there aren't benefits niknnik has talked of the European Health Insurance Card, that does wonders. We do have a great healthcare and education but unsure if we can say we're better than America...it seems so childish. I like American education I had one, in Georgia and Michigan and it was terrific. i'm unsure on the health system, I think Britain's NHS is better, but the problem for America is it's so vast and populated could it have a chance to work?

But all in all I'd rather a Europe with Britain working beside it (economically), not intimidated inside it (politically and socially).