American Flag as Bandana, offensive, or Not

[Gamemaster300]

Recently i made an american flag into a bandana thinking i would show off my patriotism. A bunch of people who i would pass on the street would say things like, "thats disrespecful", and "why would you do that to the American flag"? I wanted to know why people thought it was offensive, also i want to know if it really is. So i came hear (of all places) to put my predikament at your mersy, also it might make for a good discussion.

[CELTIC]

To tie a flag 'round one's head is neither offencive nor is it illegal. Don't listen to those guys, there are trying to wind you up.

[Gamemaster300]

i know its not illegal, i want to know why they think its offensive

[niknnik]

They probably thought it was offensive because they thought you were Mexican :V

In seriousness though, it's ridiculous to think that's offensive. If anything, it could be seen as offensive to non-Americans and even that's stupid. Unless you've, like, never washed your hair, only extreme patriots would view that as disrespectful.

[Dalord]

people have the flag as a speedo
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_208/1195247308p1mg9M.jpg

[TitanAura]

Recently i made an american flag into a bandana thinking i would show off my patriotism. A bunch of people who i would pass on the street would say things like, "thats disrespecful", and "why would you do that to the American flag"? I wanted to know why people thought it was offensive, also i want to know if it really is. So i came hear (of all places) to put my predikament at your mersy, also it might make for a good discussion.
Flag Code
Section 8
d. "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general."

The waving of the flag represents our freedom as a nation, thus why it must always "fall free."

*EDIT*
You can wear a flag as an insignia ON another piece of clothing but the flag itself must not be the base. Not to mention the fact that you mutilated a flag in the process. That is a gigantic no-no, the American Flag in particular. The flag must always be burned whenever it is to be destroyed in any manner.

k. "The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."

*RE-EDIT*
I just noticed that I'm the only person to think this is, in fact, offensive so far. Our society has become legendarily PC but it IS still possible to make something offensive regardless of how oversensitive many people can be. I'm not proud of my country, but I am proud of it's heritage and the American Flag is it's defining symbol. I'd also like to make a note that I am not knocking Gamemaster300 but if you are going to use the symbol of a nation, look up the regulations of how to use it. Go get a regular bandana, a flag patch, stitch that sucker on and you've got a bonafide patriotic bandana. If anyone still complains about it being offensive, fuck 'em and their uninformed logic.

[HarleyThomas1002]

Except the flag act isn't enforced nor cared about.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/RATM_-_Burningamp.jpg

[Gamemaster300]

if by mutilate you mean to imply that i cut or distroied the flag in the prosses your wrong, the flag itself is in one piece. i could put it on a poll right now and no one would know it was a bandana. Also, does that flag thing you posted trump freedom of speach? but this is about offensivness. thanks for you opinion.

[mystra]

if it's a real american flag then yeah it is illegal and disrespectful
Flag Laws
§ 8. Respect for Flag.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It
should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to
fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above,
the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a
speaker’s desk, draping in front of the platform, and for a decoration in general.

Use of the Flag in Jewelry, Commercial Products, Wearing
Apparel, and Advertising
While wearing the colors may be in poor taste and offensive to many, it is
important to remember that the Flag Code is intended as a guide to be followed on
a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. It is, at least,
questionable whether statutes placing civil or criminal penalties on the wearing of
clothing bearing or resembling a flag could be constitutionally enforced in light of
Supreme Court decisions in the area of flag desecration.
(This has indeed been brought to court but offhand I'm not sure of the outcome)

The 1976 amendments to the Code recognized the wearing of a flag patch or pin on the left side (near the heart) of uniforms of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.

*I should've refreshed before posting! Sorry but anyhow it is HIGHLY disrespectful and just plain wrong. If it were simply an image like a smiley face then who would care. Unfortunately that's exactly what the greatest symbol of our nation has become.

[HarleyThomas1002]

Willie Nelson who is always seen wearing an American flag bandana would have been better, but Rage Against the Machine is better.

[Gamemaster300]

i'm pretty sure there was a court case in california that said a guy burning a flag was a form of sreach and therefor was allowed to do so.

http://atheism.about.com/od/flagburningcourtcases/Flag_Burning_Cases_Supreme_Court_Cases_on_or_Relat ing_to_Flag_Burning.htm

[MrsSallyBakura]

The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.

This pretty much explains it all.

You can ignore and defend against all that other stuff, but this quote clearly states that what you're doing is considered offensive to the flag.

[maisetofan]

Except the flag act isn't enforced nor cared about.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/RATM_-_Burningamp.jpg

Cool :D
Rock music = WIN
Green day down america and their flag all the time

who would want to wear an american bandana other than bandit keith?

[Gamemaster300]

This pretty much explains it all.

You can ignore and defend against all that other stuff, but this quote clearly states that what you're doing is considered offensive to the flag.

thats true, your always so clear and simple, i find it hard to disagree with you on anything. however i do believe it is largly opinion dispite both sides having good arguments. thats why the poll is there.

[TitanAura]

if by mutilate you mean to imply that i cut or distroied the flag in the prosses your wrong, the flag itself is in one piece. i could put it on a poll right now and no one would know it was a bandana. Also, does that flag thing you posted trump freedom of speach? but this is about offensivness. thanks for you opinion.
Ah, so you must have used a very small flag. Fair enough. I'll drop the mutilation argument regarding the bandana however I still stand by the bit about using it as clothing. You have the right to wear whatever you want as a fashion statement regardless of anything but there is such a thing as doing something in bad taste. It's not deserving of reprimanding when there are worse things you can do with a flag like say.... printing it on table napkins or something that is similarly meant to be soiled and then discarded so while wearing a flag is not quite as offensive as its sickening, commercial misused counterparts, neither are deserving of punishment regardless of the context. It's just not worth getting worked up about.

However, a nation's flag is not something to be taken lightly and that goes for any country in the world because I believe that all flags should be treated with respect. When I think of our flag, I often think of the military. The people who fight and die under the unifying banner of a nation. Service men and women are buried in a coffin that is draped with a flag in honor of their service. The reason burning a flag is so horrifying is because it's equivalent to forsaking the very people that defend their freedom, which is symbolized by the flag they just burned. It's an offense to the people of a nation, not the government. It's like kicking the dog of the bully who beats you up. It's not the dog's fault it's owner is a jerk so why should it suffer? If you want to protest a government, then go sit on their lawn, or stop paying taxes, or leave, or throw a couple molotov cocktails through the windows of a strip club while the local politicians are inside, preoccupied with cheating on their wives.

[Gamemaster300]

Cool :D
Rock music = WIN
Green day down america and their flag all the time

who would want to wear an american bandana other than bandit keith?

thats not the point of this discussion.

[maisetofan]

Damn it americans are so patriotic LOL
Seriously its true, all of you know that right?

[maisetofan]

thats not the point of this discussion.

lemme guess, you are an American right? :thatface:

The majority of people on this side of the world have a negative view of the american people, actually most people who i speak to whether they be my friends or my friends friends, they hate the republicans and George bush, they think obama is better and my friend hamish reckons america is still to racist to have a black president due to the fact it took over one hundred years since slavery was officially abolished for African americans to gain respect in 1965, even so martin luther king had to die for that right as well :/

Shows like Wife swap, rock of love and cops paint americans as over the top strict or really really slutty and stupid, i know there is evidence to the contrary but what about that documentary made about Fastfood? by the vegan who went on a diet of Mcdonalds?
America has the highest rate of obesity in the western world and then there are the michael moore documentaries who people accuse him of hating america because he spoke the truth and had accurate facts to back it up

End rant lol

My pal hamish actually burnt an american flag with his friends from school and posted it on bebo, he got a lot of positive response

[AllisonWalker]

Disrespectful.

[Gamemaster300]

Titan:: my point isn't to protest the government. it is 2 things. i love america, so i thought i would wear the symbol of america. also, it looks pretty cool as a bandana.

also no, i used a regular flag (nylon, or, some other synthetic fabric, not sure, thin). anyway, it took me like an hour to get it folded just right.

[TitanAura]

Titan:: my point isn't to protest the government. it is 2 things. i love america, so i thought i would wear the symbol of america. also, it looks pretty cool as a bandana.

also no, i used a regular flag (nylon, or, some other synthetic fabric, not sure, thin). anyway, it took me like an hour to get it folded just right.
That's why I stated it separately in a different paragraph. I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about flag burning in general and why I personally disapprove of it. This IS a place for sharing our opinions so I'm doing just that.

[Gamemaster300]

That's why I stated it separately in a different paragraph. I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about flag burning in general and why I personally disapprove of it. This IS a place for sharing our opinions so I'm doing just that.

yes, that is what this place is. that is what i wanted, opinions.

[Underling]

Hahaha... you Americunts and your flags...

No seriously, y'all need to stop being so retarded.

[Gamemaster300]

Hahaha... you Americunts and your flags...

No seriously, y'all need to stop being so retarded.

can you be a little....more......discriptive?

[TitanAura]

Hahaha... you Americunts and your flags...

No seriously, y'all need to stop being so retarded.
Sorry, the moment you opened your mouth this high pitched screeching shattered my eardrums.

[Underling]

Sorry, the moment you opened your mouth this high pitched screeching shattered my eardrums.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to infer from this.

[Gamemaster300]

Sorry, the moment you opened your mouth this high pitched screeching shattered my eardrums.

i don't mind hearing an argument as long as facts are presented. as soon as emotion replaces reasoning it becomes.......well........not a dibate.....or issue.

[TitanAura]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to infer from this.
Obscure Scrubs reference.

[Gamemaster300]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to infer from this.

he doesn't like you shunning america

[TitanAura]

he doesn't like you shunning america
Nah, America sucks just like the rest of the world. I simply have the need to over-analyze why I haven't run for the hills yet.

[Gamemaster300]

Nah, America sucks just like the rest of the world. I simply have the need to over-analyze why I haven't run for the hills yet.

if it sucks like everything else, doesn't that mean there are no hills to run to??

[TitanAura]

if it sucks like everything else, doesn't that mean there are no hills to run to??
Then I shall tunnel under them.

[Gamemaster300]

Then I shall tunnel under them.

you'll be alone, perhaps with al quida (i think). anyway this is off topic

[maisetofan]

Disrespectful.

Well you are a patriotic american so you would think that

Do most americans know about other countries
I know about the fifty states and the civil war and the bill of rights but does anyone from America know about England's history or New zealand or Australia?

The wars Australasia took part in perhaps?
The treaties signed, the public holidays or history of our nations?
Nope because its not america therefore it does not count

[HarleyThomas1002]

Well you are a patriotic american so you would think that

Do most americans know about other countries
I know about the fifty states and the civil war and the bill of rights but does anyone from America know about England's history or New zealand or Australia?

The wars Australasia took part in perhaps?
The treaties signed, the public holidays or history of our nations?
Nope because its not america therefore it does not count

Everyone's too afraid of Australia (everything is out to kill you) to want to look into it.

Hell, Australia could have been colonized by the French, but when they landed on the side of the continent that was all desert they possibly said "This place is fucking sheet!"

As for New Zealand, the Maori are pretty badass.

[MrsSallyBakura]

maisetofan, I'm not sure if our knowledge of other countries' histories has to do with the topic at hand.

I agree that we Americans don't know anything about other countries' histories (unless we go and search for that history ourselves), and we probably should given the fact that other countries know so much about America, but I dunno what exactly it is we can do about that.

[Gamemaster300]

this is way off topic, someone should start a random country history thread or something. As usual i aggree with sally. Please try to relate it to the topic at least

[HarleyThomas1002]

I blame the school systems. I barely know shit about my country because in history we mostly learn about the rest of the world until grade 12 when it's all about Canada.

Seriously, the American Revolution was ass boring. Mostly white people killing each other over what was nothing more than a hissy fit about paying taxes to a monarch that rarely collected tax.

[Gamemaster300]

I blame the school systems. I barely know shit about my country because in history we mostly learn about the rest of the world until grade 12 when it's all about Canada.

Seriously, the American Revolution was ass boring. Mostly white people killing each other over what was nothing more than a hissy fit about paying taxes to a monarch that rarely collected tax.

like i said, enouph. that is not the topic at hand.

[TitanAura]

like i said, enouph. that is not the topic at hand.
You forget how conversations are supposed to work. This is tangentially related and therefore acceptable. So long as we don't start bashing each other over the head with 4chan references, I'd say this thread is doing an alright job.

[MrsSallyBakura]

like i said, enouph. that is not the topic at hand.

You also don't need to back-seat moderate.

Notice how I didn't actually tell anyone to 'get back on topic.' I was more-or-less wondering what caused maisetofan to say what she did, since I saw no connection between the topic and what she was saying.

[Kanap]

If it is an actual flag then yes if it is a printed bandanna than no.

[AllisonWalker]

maisetofan, I'm not sure if our knowledge of other countries' histories has to do with the topic at hand.

I agree that we Americans don't know anything about other countries' histories (unless we go and search for that history ourselves), and we probably should given the fact that other countries know so much about America, but I dunno what exactly it is we can do about that.

It also depends on what kind of school you went to. No one knows the history of every obscure country in the world, but I know for a fact everyone in my graduating class was taught some form of World History that included England, France, Mexico, Vietnam, Japan, China, Germany, Russia, and India.

Sorry for getting off topic, but this misconception that all Americans are only taught American history really bothers me.

[Underling]

You also don't need to back-seat moderate.

Notice how I didn't actually tell anyone to 'get back on topic.' I was more-or-less wondering what caused maisetofan to say what she did, since I saw no connection between the topic and what she was saying.

Well, aren't you a special flower.

Sorry for getting off topic, but this misconception that all Americans are only taught American history really bothers me.

Nobody said all of them. Just like, 90%.

[maisetofan]

maisetofan, I'm not sure if our knowledge of other countries' histories has to do with the topic at hand.

I agree that we Americans don't know anything about other countries' histories (unless we go and search for that history ourselves), and we probably should given the fact that other countries know so much about America, but I dunno what exactly it is we can do about that.

Thank you for giving me an honest answer without being a jerk sally. I appreciate that you admit in your country unless you personally choose to learn, then you generally will not learn much about other countries outside the american islands, and that is the same here, i made myself aware of american and european history because i did not want to be ignorant

Harleythomas i also do not think calling Maoris badass is the best way to show you know much about the country :/

Sorry for getting off topic, but this misconception that all Americans are only taught American history really bothers me.

Again allison the countries you have learnt about are either next door to you or in closer vicinity than the likes of new zealand or australia which i find MOST and not all but MOST people on this forum do not have any concept of what new zealand even is as a country let alone its history, or australia

its not all sheep, Maori's and aborigines who by the way are both indigenous as the American Indians were, only new zealand does treat the Maori people very very well, the prime minister even had to make a national apology for harmless little quip he made the other day,and there are more benefits financial if you are Maori as you are entitled to land in various parts of the country if you are part of the ngaio trust.

Sorry to get off topic
Sally, again i apologize you were able to admit things and i admire your tactfulness

Anyway yes it is wrong to wear any countries flag as a bandana, if you have any respect for your country i guess you would not like it
And i apologize for posting my friends hamish's antics about burning the flag because looking back it is disrespectful, as i would hate that stupid ignorant act to have been done on the new zealand flag

so i do apologize there

[Fat1Fared]

Well seeing as gamemaster asked me, I will post here, but don't have much to add, really I do not see it as offenisive, but then in england we sort of find putting all your national pride in a peice of cloth amusing and here all our flag does it get messy at footie grounds

=Basically I think the US is only place which could really find wearing your flag as offensive, but then that is how US cutlure views it flag, I mean you even put them in classroms <shrugs>

=Of course you could question uncle sam's hat, so <shrugs> still seems extreme

Well, aren't you a special flower.


lol,

=PS actually THe first county to find Australia was china, who did about 1000 years before we new what boat was, then next county was the Dutch and the reason the French did not take "half" it, was because they didn't have the resources britian had

[Gamemaster300]

Sally:: I supose your right, you are the moderater. So i will but out in that respact.

Titan: I hardly see how the history of other countries relates to whearing an american flag as a bandana.

[Gamemaster300]

If it is an actual flag then yes if it is a printed bandanna than no.

it might just be me but what difference does that make?? is there an official bandana fabric or something. it is still the american flag on fabric on someone's head.

[Fairyriverkit]

Actually where I am we have learned about other coutries and their histories.We get to American History in tenth grade.This year we're studying Australia,Asia, and Africa.So maybe its different in other counties but here our school system covers alot of the world.

[maisetofan]

Actually where I am we have learned about other coutries and their histories.We get to American History in tenth grade.This year we're studying Australia,Asia, and Africa.So maybe its different in other counties but here our school system covers alot of the world.

Thats good :tongue:
Most schools should be aware of what is happening in the rest of the world
obviously the private schools do tend to teach more specialized subjects such as foreign history and literature, however i guess with lack of funding in state schools and public highschools its difficult to teach an entire curriculum which includes other countries and their histories

[maisetofan]

Sally:: I supose your right, you are the moderater. So i will but out in that respact.

Titan: I hardly see how the history of other countries relates to whearing an american flag as a bandana.

First off its WEARING
Secondly, it does help to know a thing or two about other countries if you ever plan to travel someday so you too would know how one would react so say wearing their nations flag as a bandana, see over on this side of the world it would not be considered offensive, its nations pride really.
What about those american flag t-shirts and pants and hats you guys have?
how come they are not offensive?

[TitanAura]

Sally:: I supose your right, you are the moderater. So i will but out in that respact.

Titan: I hardly see how the history of other countries relates to whearing an american flag as a bandana.
Because the topic is directly related to national patriotism and therefore tangentially related to other country's patriotism. I'm starting to feel guilty about defending the American Flag as much as I have because now this thread has become a psuedo-"America vs The World" debate. This sort of thing always bugs me because it always becomes a clash of personal beliefs on a global scale, which hardly ever amount to much more than "America sucks because they don't know anything about other countries and always impose their beliefs on other cultures." You realize that mostly refers to the European descended white minority majority right?

I'll concede that we cornflakes are supremely guilty of just that but blaming America as a whole? Dig a little deeper. Look at the non-White population and say that. The real issue is not the population, but the representation. Just take a look as how polarizing Obama has been. I didn't vote for the guy (and this comes from someone with adopted African American siblings) but I still see him as a step in the right direction. The problem is we haven't matured as a nation yet. The fact that Obama became president shouldn't be frowned upon (a very loose representation of his opposition) because technically he wasn't born in the continental US (because Hawaii doesn't count?) and a disturbing number of uneducated Americans believe he's a Muslim, NOR should it be celebrated with all of the bells and whistles available just because he's the first black president. It should just happen with zero fanfare or additional attention beyond the shifting of power from one PERSON to another.

Change is probably a great idea however I was personally hesitant as to whether that would be change guided in the right direction or not. From what I've seen so far, I'd say we're slowly but surely making our way there. We've just gotta move our fat asses a bit faster and sweat off the excess ego to catch up with the rest of the world.

"We'll be the good guy or the bad guy.... just so long as we get to be the important guy."
-utterly misquoted from some random movie journalist I can't remember

[HarleyThomas1002]

"America sucks because they don't know anything about other countries and always impose their beliefs on other cultures."

Afghanistan. The reason the US and Canadian Forces are there is because of Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Go in, get rid of them, leave. If anyone's feeling nice help rebuild their homes and what not.

Instead it's go in, have a difficult time looking for the bad guy, and try to turn Afghanistan into a democratic country instead letting them do what they want.

because technically he wasn't born in the continental US

Neither was Palin.

We've just gotta move our fat asses a bit faster and sweat off the excess ego to catch up with the rest of the world.

But that'll mean the end of America! (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/082/6/f/The_End_of_America_by_humon.jpg)

I should have probably addressed more than those 'points', but they stuck out to me the most.

[Gamemaster300]

ok, the flag thing relates to patriatizm (i suck at spelling). therefore relates to other countries patriatizm, therefore links the 2. if i were to travel to another country i would make damb sure i knew enouph about there culture to be fluent there. also i was more or less looking for opinions, and i got them, i'd rather not turn this into anymore than i intended which started out as wanting people to ansure the poll question. weather your belief comes from the flag protocol......whatever, or from your own personal belief doesn't really matter. also i would never where the flag in other countries.

[Spoofs3]

I for one do not consider it disrespectful and actually find the people criticizing offensive to the nation.
The United States of America was meant to be formed as a great nation celebrating Free will and Free Speech, to think that a nation has degraded itself to represent their pride of a nation in a flag is unthinkable.
A nation should show its pride in the people, The places and the ideals it supports.
A flag is just a piece of fabric. It may represent the freedom of the US-American people, but only a representation...

Of course, Being Irish, I can understand why you consider the flag so sacred.
You go up to Northern Ireland, Flags are SACRED. You are defined as a person for the flag you support because of the controversy of which nation the North should belong to (Republic or Great Britain, Population is like 35% want to be in the Republic)
So yeah, Although I do not consider ANY flag so magical that it's disrespecful to a nation if a flag is mistreated, I do understand why people consider flags sacred.

Although... I must say the idea of flags being so magnificant and representing the country as a whole rather than the people who live in it reminds me of this Eddie Izzard Scetch
Do you have a flag? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEx5G-GOS1k)

[Loki_42]

It depends on the motive not the action. If you wear an American flag bandanna because you want to show how much you love America, then do it. If it's for a less patriotic reason then it's disrespectful.

[DarthWario]

I don't think it's offensive.

Maybe not great fashion sense, but not offensive.


Unless wearing at a silly occasion. Like a funeral.

[AllisonWalker]

Americans don't blame Mexicans for every problem in the country. LMAO

[Gamemaster300]

ummmm.......wrong thread (i think)
wait WTF happend, i thought i was quoting FAT.

[AllisonWalker]

LOL That was strange.

[Gamemaster300]

anyway, of course i would ware it to show off my love of this country.

[Gamemaster300]

LOL That was strange.

what happend to you??

[Fat1Fared]

My god, I can use a delete button, ain't I magical ^_-

I was having to reset my computer because of this site's stupid time out rules and with their being too of these flag threads (for some reason) I put it in the wrong one

[Gamemaster300]

My god, I can use a delete button, ain't I magical ^_-

I was having to reset my computer because of this site's stupid time out rules and with their being too of these flag threads (for some reason) I put it in the wrong one

this one is dead, everyone gave there opinion and i;m going to have a mod close it

[JesusRocks]

By request from the OP

LOCK'D