Are Children Growing up too Fast?

[Draconia Dominus]

For quite a while, it has been noticed there has been an increase in young people taking part in 'adult activity'. (I'm not explicitly talking about sex here.) According to media reports and general observations, younger people are participating in activities which people of older age groups normally do. For example, younger people want to look older.


Here are two questions to discuss:
Are children growing up too fast in your opinion?
What do you think are the causes?


I'll throw my two cents in to kick this off.

I'm only about 15 years old, so I can't really judge accurately on the first question. However, I think people around my age are growing up pretty fast. While some people I know are responsible people, others just wreak havoc.

Media influence theory is stupid when applied to people who are mature and responsible for their actions. However, when younger people are exposed to media, they are more readily and easily influenced by it. They are naturally curious and willing to try stuff they see before they realise that certain activities may have negative consequences. Sometimes, very young people don't realise that what they see on TV isn't reality.

In short, I think young people are growing up faster than in the past, and media influence theory is a major contributor.

What's your opinion?

[TheOcean]

Honestly, I think children are perceived as growing up too fast because of the society that is being shed by the older generations going the way of the dodo. However I do think that kids grow up to fast in general, and always have.

Media, corporate advertising, and in general the fact that the human race is one big group of lemmings going off a cliff tend to make a snowball effect. However I have noticed something odd. While everyone is afraid of children growing up too fast, they always want them to be mature and make decisions based on that maturity. You can't have maturity without growing up, so basically adults are putting children into a pretty annoying catch 22 on that one.

I would also like to note that there is a significant "I'll never grow up." Point of view in my generation, which I don't think helps the situation any at all.yes i have this problem in a massive way.

I would ramble more but it would probably make even less sense.

Mostly I blame the rap music *shakes cane*.

[Draconia Dominus]

I understand what you're trying to say.

Also, the fact that people don't want children to grow up fast yet be mature in their decision-making is odd, as you said. As for myself, I've been exposed to media and the stuff that a typical person of my age would be exposed to.

With 'maturity', it depends on what you define as maturity. Maturity can be defined as sexual maturity, or 'maturity' in regards to responsible decision-making. I think the former is becoming more prominent in younger people, and the latter isn't.

But what I'm saying may be pretty biased because of my age.

[Fat1Fared]

I think this question is currently a bit too board as with all different and diverses cultures in world, there is no set happen to what happens in each area, as someone in poor area of Africa will resultively grow up lot faster than someone in rich area of say US, so I am going to narrow and look at more Western/UK view.

=Now this is popular belief here amount our older generations, but it is as most of this things are, a dispropionate misconception made by range of factors from bais/blurred view of youth to factualness view of our pasts. Generally it starts in the fact that most people when they hit early to mid teen’s, come to a point where wish to differentiate themselves from their parents and their own past, in order to make a sense of real-self and so normally this will involve wishing to do things they find/found forbiddon to them, starting generally with small stuff such as fashion sense and as time goes by, it moves to more extreme areas such as drink, however this is just board generalisation and once get into each subjective set of cases, will never be completely same each time and not all will follow it at all, but have to have some generalisation in these areas and think this does not matter too much as point getting at, I believe is basic evident enough anyway.

=So of course as with all views of one group viewing another, the group on the outside conceives them in a way the inside group never foresaw and that by believes their growing up too fast, as the outside group doesn’t wish for inside group to go way it is, not mutinously, just what wish and so this mixed with a blurred view of “in our day” they come to their conclusion youth is doing something wrong. But if look at our past and most importantly their’s, we grow up slower than ever have, people just wish for this.

=150-100 years ago, there was no such thing as teen, you hit 13 and bang you were adult, then move forward to about 80 years and coming of mass education most importantly, then we got few teen years, then move to about 50 years ago and educational/teen ages increasing once more with liberalisation and got till about 16, then finally come to about 30-20 years ago and raise in mass “higher” education and thus we have the idea of teen years in complete and now people still see some of their children as kids even into their 20’s, so thus we are actually kept younger for longer now, but this conflicts with our natural desirers to make ourselves as people and so get idea of rebellious youth or growing too fast, but this then begs a new question doesn’t it.

Do we now grow up to slowly?

[HarleyThomas1002]

Oooo, this reminds me of a book I was reading about the oversexualized media.

It included stories such as a six yeard old asking his parents "What's a blowjob?" and other stories such as nine-year-old girls wanting to go on diets and wear revealing clothing.

A lot of it does have to do with what children are exposed to and when they're exposed to it.

Bratz dolls came up fairly often in the book and how they wore mostly nothing and even in the Bratz Babies series they still wore shirts that showed their stomachs.

[MrsSallyBakura]

150-100 years ago, there was no such thing as teen, you hit 13 and bang you were adult, then move forward to about 80 years and coming of mass education most importantly, then we got few teen years, then move to about 50 years ago and educational/teen ages increasing once more with liberalisation and got till about 16, then finally come to about 30-20 years ago and raise in mass “higher” education and thus we have the idea of teen years in complete and now people still see some of their children as kids even into their 20’s, so thus we are actually kept younger for longer now, but this conflicts with our natural desirers to make ourselves as people and so get idea of rebellious youth or growing too fast, but this then begs a new question doesn’t it.

Do we now grow up to slowly?

Thanks for mentioning this. I actually do think that in one regard, children are growing up too slowly.

There is a new 'phenomenon' going on these days called, "extended adolescence." The notion basically says that people in their early twenties still feel like teenagers emotionally and mentally. There are a lot of reasons for this, one of them is because it takes much longer to get into the job field and make enough money before they settle down for marriage and/or a career path.

I know I feel this way. Sometimes it's frustrating that I'm still in school right now instead of getting married and raising a family. That I'm still in the middle of deciding what I'm going to do for the rest of my life when I feel like people in the past took care of that by the time high school ended, or before.

On the other hand, when it comes to sexual exposure, I don't think that there's anything particularly wrong with letting kids know that that kind of stuff is out there as long as you teach them how to control that part of their lives. Otherwise later on, they'll just start being irresponsible. Which probably shows another side of the 'growing up too slowly' notion.

A couple of years ago I wrote a paper for a children's literature class about books for children that dealt with death, and how they shouldn't be banned because children need to be exposed to that part of life. I was talking with a friend about it and she agrees that people are very immature when they aren't exposed to that part of life at an early age. Sometimes parents hide that from their children because they don't want to scare them, or they don't want them "growing up too soon," or they want them to enjoy their childhood and see it as something fun instead of something traumatic.

So those are a few of my thoughts, I guess.

[Underling]

SEEMS RELEVANT

Wjehii-jjHE

[Draconia Dominus]

You're right, I was being way too general in my question.

To be more specific, I was asking about whether young people were growing up too quickly in regards to oversexualisation whilst not being responsible for their actions. Personally, I think the media combined with the lack of education results in problems in this field. Younger people are more easily influenced by media, and aren't being educated.

I also see nothing wrong with letting children know about sex and seemingly 'mature' subjects, provided they are told their rights and responsibilities. The problem is that they aren't educated very well in many occasions. Parents are afraid of letting their children know, and I can understand why. However, dodging the topic does make children curious. Facts of life are facts, and everyone has to learn them sometime.


And as mentioned before, 'extended adolescence' does exist, now that I think about it. Yes, I agree that people are maturing more slowly in terms of progressing through their lives. I'm in high school, and I can definitely see what you mean. I've already decided on a career path. I know I'll be in university until 2015 or so. That's a long time. I've already thought that I'm not going to get married or going to have kids.

But those are just my current thoughts. Those events will only actually happen in the distant future. Many years ago, this wouldn't be the case: people would be settling down and acquiring jobs a lot sooner.

[Fat1Fared]

Thanks for mentioning this. I actually do think that in one regard, children are growing up too slowly.

There is a new 'phenomenon' going on these days called, "extended adolescence." The notion basically says that people in their early twenties still feel like teenagers emotionally and mentally. There are a lot of reasons for this, one of them is because it takes much longer to get into the job field and make enough money before they settle down for marriage and/or a career path.

I know I feel this way. Sometimes it's frustrating that I'm still in school right now instead of getting married and raising a family. That I'm still in the middle of deciding what I'm going to do for the rest of my life when I feel like people in the past took care of that by the time high school ended, or before.

On the other hand, when it comes to sexual exposure, I don't think that there's anything particularly wrong with letting kids know that that kind of stuff is out there as long as you teach them how to control that part of their lives. Otherwise later on, they'll just start being irresponsible. Which probably shows another side of the 'growing up too slowly' notion.

A couple of years ago I wrote a paper for a children's literature class about books for children that dealt with death, and how they shouldn't be banned because children need to be exposed to that part of life. I was talking with a friend about it and she agrees that people are very immature when they aren't exposed to that part of life at an early age. Sometimes parents hide that from their children because they don't want to scare them, or they don't want them "growing up too soon," or they want them to enjoy their childhood and see it as something fun instead of something traumatic.

So those are a few of my thoughts, I guess.

wait were agree with each, is that hell freezing over I heard :thatface:

=DD, the problem is if you actually look at it, our parents and grandparents were probably married with kids by time their 16-22, my grand was at 17, my 18, but my sister has only just got a job and settled down with single partner at age of 25, because she had very thing sally was on about, so really we're growing up lot slower, but just because we settle socially slower, doesn't our natural instincts for partners and sex slow down as well, I think what you are now referring to is simply a misplacement between our natural desirer to grow up and societies wanting to kept us young longer.

=As for Sex-Ed, well all say is my school one was waste of time and if ever met mum, she didn't really help me at home, her beliefs were conservative religious nut without the religion, so up to about age of 17 I tort that girls were evil things to do unnatural acts with, no wonder it wasn't till uni that I finally began to learn about these things and trust me, I can say I wish I knew in school what I know now, because my life would have been lot better and I wouldn't have made so many "mistakes."

=So in short, I think we're just doing what we want to as humans and society is actually one which is unbalanced to us, then again, I think that as long as responable and willing to take risks, what is wrong with young sex
-Though, I know the USA users and religious base will jump for me that

[MrsSallyBakura]

To be more specific, I was asking about whether young people were growing up too quickly in regards to oversexualisation whilst not being responsible for their actions. Personally, I think the media combined with the lack of education results in problems in this field. Younger people are more easily influenced by media, and aren't being educated.

I also see nothing wrong with letting children know about sex and seemingly 'mature' subjects, provided they are told their rights and responsibilities. The problem is that they aren't educated very well in many occasions. Parents are afraid of letting their children know, and I can understand why. However, dodging the topic does make children curious. Facts of life are facts, and everyone has to learn them sometime.

I think in that regard, it's not so much of an issue in "growing up too fast" as much as it is, as you said, being part of an oversexed culture mixed with irresponsibility. I think that can be blamed on a mix of things. While I'm not one of those people who likes to blame the media for all of our social problems, I can't say that it's helping anything either. If it's out there, and parents aren't monitoring their kids' media intake, then, well, stuff like the video Underling posted start existing. This is especially true if parents in general aren't very involved in their children's lives.

And as mentioned before, 'extended adolescence' does exist, now that I think about it. Yes, I agree that people are maturing more slowly in terms of progressing through their lives. I'm in high school, and I can definitely see what you mean. I've already decided on a career path. I know I'll be in university until 2015 or so. That's a long time. I've already thought that I'm not going to get married or going to have kids.

But those are just my current thoughts. Those events will only actually happen in the distant future. Many years ago, this wouldn't be the case: people would be settling down and acquiring jobs a lot sooner.

I think the economy plays a huge role in this as well. Not only does it make us stay in school longer so that we can make some money, but for people like me, it also makes us stay at our parents' house for longer because we're too poor to move out. I lived with my parents during my first 2 years of university because I didn't really have any money. Most college students still move out when they first start college, but I know many others who don't.

It also has to do with what the job market demands. Nowadays most jobs demand at least a bachelor's degree. A few decades ago, they only required a high school diploma for most jobs. If things keep going the way they are now, I imagine in about 30 years that a master's degree will be required for most jobs. And anyone who has ever looked at tuition rates for graduate-level courses knows how much money that's gonna cost. Not to mention the constant growing of tuition rates in general. X_X

Gah, money. Why must you be so important?

just because we settle socially slower, doesn't our natural instincts for partners and sex slow down as well, I think what you are now referring to is simply a misplacement between our natural desirer to grow up and societies wanting to kept us young longer.

THIS. D:

[NinjaLlama]

I'm in my third year at secondary school, and quite a few kids in my year have started smoking and have already had sex. A lot of them come into school talking about how drunk they were the night before.
It makes me sick. Most girls and boys in my year can pass for being sixteen, and I myself have been asked if i still live with my mum or if i have my own place.
We are growing up too fast, but not because of media. There's plenty of information in the media about why we shouldn't smoke, drink or have underage sex. But in a way we want to grow up faster, we want people to think we're older and mostly we don't want parents to treat us like kids for our whole lives.
This is just my opinion. I'll understand if anyone disagrees.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I think what you have to understand when I say "media," I mean specifically entertainment, you know, music videos and high-rated TV shows and movies. That kind of stuff is saturated with what people would consider 'inappropriate,' hence their high rating.

But I suppose I know what you mean when you say that people smoke, drink, have sex, etc at a young age because they want to grow up faster.

This may not be true for everyone who does this stuff, but it's probably true for some.

Which then brings us back to Fared's point about being in war between our natural desires and society's demand to grow up more slowly.

[Draconia Dominus]

The media is part to blame for oversexualization and bad decision making without responsibility. There are also many other things to blame, for example, peer pressure can cause some severe complications. I'm lucky enough to be in a circle of friends who are accepting of differences. However, influences/encouragement from various places does complicate things.

Also, on the issue of people wanting to feel 'older' and 'more mature' by drinking, etc... I don't think that idea is very mature. To me, maturity is knowing about so-called 'mature' subjects AND being responsible around such topics.

Adolescence is a time when people are often confused about what they want in life. 'Extended adolescence' may also add to the confusion and stress people feel in teenage to mid 20s years. It's understandable that people want to escape the stress and expectations which have been placed on them for an extended period of time.

[MrsSallyBakura]

The media is part to blame for oversexualization and bad decision making without responsibility. There are also many other things to blame, for example, peer pressure can cause some severe complications. I'm lucky enough to be in a circle of friends who are accepting of differences. However, influences/encouragement from various places does complicate things.

Yes, I agree. While I believe that people who point to the media about all our social problems are just finding a scapegoat for the real issues at hand, I also believe that it wouldn't hurt if the media cut down on that kind of stuff. But that's just me. *shrug*

Also, on the issue of people wanting to feel 'older' and 'more mature' by drinking, etc... I don't think that idea is very mature. To me, maturity is knowing about so-called 'mature' subjects AND being responsible around such topics.

Well, the mature thing to do about drinking would be to drink responsibly, but you have to consider that people who desire that badly to be more mature aren't always thinking the most logically. The ones who are will strive to be more mature in other ways, like getting a job and raising enough money to move out of the house and go to an expensive school.

Adolescence is a time when people are often confused about what they want in life. 'Extended adolescence' may also add to the confusion and stress people feel in teenage to mid 20s years. It's understandable that people want to escape the stress and expectations which have been placed on them for an extended period of time.

One of the worst parts about "extended adolescence" is the fact that you still feel like a teenager in some ways, yet your age tells you that you're no longer a teenager. When is "extended adolescence" supposed to end, anyways? :smiley5:

[Shiny]

I certainly think children are being exposed to sexually mature things at an age which is far too young, and I feel that the internet and media have a large role in that. Being sexy has become the same thing as being trendy especially when talking about teenage girls, like the whole Bratz Dolls mentioned above.

Having sex makes you cool, and honestly how many of us would probably feel ashamed to say that they never had sex with someone? It'd probably be quite a few if everyone was honest, because that's how society has related sex to success and popularity.

As far as the responsibility side of it goes, I feel like it isn't introduced anywhere near soon enough. You end up with a bunch of young adults who aren't prepared for the responsibility of the real world, because they were sheltered from it since the day they were born.

Whats worse is when you combine these two problems you can end up with a teenage parent that has no idea what they're going to do with their life, let alone the life of the child that they conceived because of their irresponsible sex life.

[Draconia Dominus]

Agreed with Shiny.

A problem lays in when to start educating children about sexual issues. Some children are exposed to media earlier than others. I think this responsibility should lie with the parents and relatives.

Media exposure doesn't create a sense of responsibility, but education does.

Also, one thing; females tend to be more affected by media portrayals. For example, eating disorders are on the rise in young girls. Then comes the skimpy clothing... etc.

Teenage parents aren't sensible, in my opinion. As mentioned above, they are stuck in a 'tight spot' and don't know what to do with themselves.

Random sidenote: regarding the video posted by Underling, I'm curious as to whether the children were taught to dance like that 'just for fun' or whether they were also exposed to the entire sexual connotation.

[Fat1Fared]

=While I certainly agree that sex has become more open, it has always been an obsession of society, I was talking to my father the other day, about several things and one thing I said which shocked him greatly was that I have never read/watched a porno (don't ask why, but idea of seeing someone else have sex actually turns me off, been told that is strange by lot of poeple <shrugs>)
=He could not believe it and much to my mental dispositions despair he told how he use to love porn in his teen years, and during telling me this, he also told me how the idea that in his youth such things as sexual media and even pre-marriage/teen sex were not there was a lie and in fact, pretty common things. He himself was considered a weirdo because he was 23 before he had sex for first time, which he also decided to tell me, was with my mother (again, thanks dad o_0) while these are things I never aspired to learn, they do prove my point that these things were always there, but like things like homosexuality, there just now coming out into the open of society rather than done in the darkened rooms of our underworld.
-If there is a difference in society, it is not what we want/do, its just where we do and that status quo is less likely to try and be seen to stop it

=Also I think to say teenage mums are all bad is bit too board, I know girl from my school, who is married with 2 children (1 is few months old, other is 1/2) she turned 20 this month, and she is fine with that, her partner is soldier and she is temp, I couldn't understand why want life like that, but it was one she made and seems happy enough, as for kids themselves, time will tell.
=I think, even to say that unplanned teenage babies will be negative is wrong, but closer too the truth, however I think that in end, while I cannot understand teenage perganties as choice and think more chance of them having negative side-effect, that is because of lack of others things within society besides the age itself. (I mean in my grandmothers dads, teenage pregnancy was norn, but so was marriage and work)

=And think that is the key issue, there is the trio link between 3 parts western society tells us to aspire to
-Work to support Family
-Married to stablise and bind family
-Sex to create family

=And in very basic and idealistic world those are 3 linked areas to happy family, now we all know that is far too simple to be true, but does have some basis (marriage is less important now, but say I bounded relationship comes under that heading as well)
-I mean the person I know is married with job and steady life, so things more likely to go ok, but less problems to bombard her and her family. I mean like said, lot deeper than that, but you can see my point, her life is stable one, which now days, is what a lot of teenage parents probably considered too lack.
-But I still feel, rather than coming down to more teenage parents it comes down to once again, us being kept young longer, however all that being said, while I did not watch underlings video, I will agreed that 12 year olds in sexual sedo-bravo (made up term is made up) is extreme.

=I think in summary, I am with Sally that to say all media's fault is lie, but think more comes down to the fact that rather than being this big sex society, we are same as always been, just we expected to addear to some idealistic idea of past which fail to do, in same way as our parents did/dofailed and now the expectation have become more extreme as kept younger for longer, but society as whole has become more open
-I would also like to say, rarely does the media create a mass social change, normally it is just first to see it and then exploit it for money, if the media is showing more sex...etc, that because we wanted it too, not because it told us, we should.

=I would also like to note I just found out other day that 26% of he girls in my year, at my Roman Catholic School got themselves pegarent before 19, so much for the teachings of the church huh.

[grimfang999]

I havent read the whole of this debate, but heres what I think.

By what I've seen, its not entirely the media. Yes, its rooted in the media, but what is happening in some situations is its more sibling to sibling encouragement.

For example, an old friend of mine would talk about and use gay as a complaint around his little brother. Another one of my friends does the same thing, only to a much greater extent, making clear sexual jokes and swearing among other things in front of younger children.

Because of this exposure to an uncontroled generation (like mine) who are greatly influenced by the media, is teachings kids far to young about what sex really is, on top of gang culture among other things that previous generations would have controled. Now, I cannot talk from experience, as I was technically raised as a total innocence, perfected by the gradual revealing, a complete lack of interest on my part and that my sister was respectful.


Now yes, the media, or at least the popular media, has exposed children to things they shouldnt know and understand until 10 or 11 years old, and quite a bit of it uncensored, undisclamitive (meaning like while I speak about it dont do it kind of thing), and fully permitted by the parents. In this particular case I quite seriously do blame the rap. If you look at the average rap video, it is based somewhere similar to a strip club, a mansion with loads of half naked girls or something of the sort, all dancing seductively for a mans pleasure (this is not all, but in general as far as ive seen).

In addition rap encourages people to be insulting as possable to another in these "my dick is bigger than yours" rap battles and "cussing matches". "yo mum is so fat that she is fat". While this does not make them mature to adolescent sexual "maturity", it does encourage inequality and violence, making the child have a worse attitude as a teenager towards adults and outcasts (rockers, nerds, etc).


However, If I now look at the blame of the parents. There is at least one rapper who disclaims his work and encourages peace, and thats eminem.

When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up your school
And they blame it on Marilyn - and the heroin
Where were the parents at?

Now, hes this emphasises my previous point, and will help in my latter point. The parents simply do not, or cannot control their kids anymore. Bringing it close to home, smacking your child has been banned in the UK. Result? A younger generation with less respect for people who are older than them. I cannot go deeply into this point due to again not too much experience since my school is good, but even here the years below mouth off to people in years above. We never did that to the years above us when we were in the lower years, so surely there may be a corralation between length of discipline and the respect?


I had to go into control of the kids because it does all link together to the youths of today.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Bringing it close to home, smacking your child has been banned in the UK.

I'll spank my children if they dang well deserve it, whether it's legal or not.

...

On second thought, the kid would probably be spoon-fed garbage about how parents shouldn't even touch their children so if he blabbed about it at school, someone would call me some kind of child abuser and have me arrested.

Well, if all that ends up happening, I'm moving to Mars. Who's with me?

[AllisonWalker]

Me.

[Jotenks]

Partay time on Mars

[grimfang999]

I'll spank my children if they dang well deserve it, whether it's legal or not.

...

On second thought, the kid would probably be spoon-fed garbage about how parents shouldn't even touch their children so if he blabbed about it at school, someone would call me some kind of child abuser and have me arrested.

Well, if all that ends up happening, I'm moving to Mars. Who's with me?

yeah its just ridiculous. As far as I know it was to have reduced the number of "child abuse cases". However, there is a defined line between beating your kids and using slapping as a shock tactic to stop them from doing it. Children will tend to OTT about the occurence and may report if they are in a little pain just to get their own way. Instead, now we have only communication ways to discipline, which will not entirely work on small children, unruley toddlers and children wanting to have fun. And thus contributing I believe to lack of control which in turn will contribute to them growing up faster and more aggressively

[MrsSallyBakura]

Adults are going to abuse their children whether or not there's a law against spanking.

I mean my goodness, have any of these PC people ever even been spanked? And really, was it that traumatizing? How many people do they know have said that being spanked hasn't given them mental issues? Do they even speak to a sample of people about their experiences?

Pop psychology is ruining us. There's a reason why there are experts. Politically correct nutcases are NOT trained psychologists nor should they be treated as such.

[Draconia Dominus]

Adults are going to abuse their children whether or not there's a law against spanking.

I mean my goodness, have any of these PC people ever even been spanked? And really, was it that traumatizing? How many people do they know have said that being spanked hasn't given them mental issues? Do they even speak to a sample of people about their experiences?

Pop psychology is ruining us. There's a reason why there are experts. Politically correct nutcases are NOT trained psychologists nor should they be treated as such.
I agree with this. However, there's a difference between a light/moderate beating for discipline purposes and a fully-fledged 'hit your child as hard as you can' beating. Unfortunately, I received the latter.

There lies a problem with 'pop psychology', I agree. Media isn't just influencing young audiences. Often, adults are misinformed how to do things properly. Sometimes, facts and statistics are heavily distorted. You only need to see the rise in fad diets to get the picture.

But media isn't solely to blame, of course.

[AdjacentOrigin]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of children. Who are they to try and seize our mantles from us when we grow old? They have to deserve their adulthood, just like the rest of us! The fact that they're aging rapidly as the title of this thread seems to indicate, we should all be threatened by the nasty little buggers. Children ARE our future, they're going to REPLACE us eventually. Why are we actively working towards our own demise? Think about it. I didn't. By the way, I didn't read the other posts. This my first time, so I'm excused.

[greymagick711]

I agree with this. However, there's a difference between a light/moderate beating for discipline purposes and a fully-fledged 'hit your child as hard as you can' beating. Unfortunately, I received the latter.

There lies a problem with 'pop psychology', I agree. Media isn't just influencing young audiences. Often, adults are misinformed how to do things properly. Sometimes, facts and statistics are heavily distorted. You only need to see the rise in fad diets to get the picture.

But media isn't solely to blame, of course.

^ This.

If it's not all media, then of course many thing influencing young adults, or maturation in general, is the environment on the body. This article (http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/05/08/10/girls_hitting_puberty_at_younger__amp_younger_ages _experts_say_exposure_to_plastics_and_insecticid.h tm) states that due to the over abundance of synthetic chemical in foods that help the product may cause an early trigger to the growth impulses.
For example, growth hormones in non-organic foods and meats might accumulate in the body earlier than when the pituitary gland naturally produces them. The causes maturation to occur at an earlier age.

But it seems this discussion is more psychological? Hm...well, changes in the body correlate and may cause changes in mentality, but that might not always be the case. I'd call many adolescents physically mature for their age...but mentally? Not so much.

[greymagick711]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of children. Who are they to try and seize our mantles from us when we grow old? They have to deserve their adulthood, just like the rest of us! The fact that they're aging rapidly as the title of this thread seems to indicate, we should all be threatened by the nasty little buggers. Children ARE our future, they're going to REPLACE us eventually. Why are we actively working towards our own demise? Think about it. I didn't. By the way, I didn't read the other posts. This my first time, so I'm excused.

I can see where you're coming from. Kinda. Personally, I don't consider myself a full adult until my is career totally in order when I'm out of college. But even with teens just a few years younger than me, I can almost feel their immaturity. And yes, I'd also like a little respect.

On the other hand--I do think that the future is is safe hands. All of the problems of the future will have to be solved by them(us?)--otherwise, there goes the world. It's this generation that will solve all screw-ups the previous generation managed to accomplish.

[Draconia Dominus]

greymagick711 (http://forum.yugiohtheabridgedseries.com/member.php?u=22004), that's one interesting article. I personally experienced puberty at an early-ish age. It seems highly plausible that the chemicals are a factor in this matter.

It's okay to talk about the physical environment in this discussion... I was talking about mainly the psychological side of things, but the physical factors are probably also contributing to this phenomenon. I've talked to my mother; she experienced puberty at a much later age than I did. People are physically growing up quicker.

Physical maturity can bring a different mindset to young people. When someone is physically mature, they may think they are 'adults' and adopt a mindset which makes them do 'adult' things. If someone is not responsible, the result may be unfavourable. Combined with 'extended adolescence', this often results in young people making bad decisions and taking little responsibility.

[Fat1Fared]

Adults are going to abuse their children whether or not there's a law against spanking.

I mean my goodness, have any of these PC people ever even been spanked? And really, was it that traumatizing? How many people do they know have said that being spanked hasn't given them mental issues? Do they even speak to a sample of people about their experiences?

Pop psychology is ruining us. There's a reason why there are experts. Politically correct nutcases are NOT trained psychologists nor should they be treated as such.

=Sally I think the ECHR knows few more "experts" than you do <_<
>_>

-No offense but this law was not just pulled out of someones ass, it had a lot of deliberation, now do not get me wrong, probably to everyone's amazement, I don't agree with this law, but I think before everyone goes off on lots mini-rants, need to understand what the law is and how it came about.

=The law actually stands that you are allowed to slack your child as long as no simi-premant or premant marks are left.

=This law came in, because the European Convention on Human Rights was seeing waves upon waves of Child abuse cases being thrown out by nation courts throughout europe on grounds of Parental rights, now some of these may have been right, others not so, to be honest I do not know as too many for me to be able to say clearly ether way.
-The point is this concerned the courts greatly because the major problem was that there no clear definition of what the perentual rights actually were and so after 6 years (yes 6) of studies into what had least detrimental and most positive effects, as well as what societies themselves thought was right.....etc, the courts finally came to the choice above that law should be you are allowed to slack child, but not severely, the problem is that national papers throughout europe did normal trick of just writing up lots of rubbish about how every parent would be arrestable for hugging their children....etc and the public did normal trick of just accepting what papers told them and so here we are now.

[FluffyFTW]

I believe this generation is certainly growing up fast. I know youngsters between ages of eleven and sixteen years-old who are already drinking alcohol, going out clubbing, smoking weed and getting into relationships. I started doing all the above (besides smoking weed) when I was seventeen going onto eighteen. Teenagers are eager and pressurised to look 'cool', it's just sad.

I think the mass media is partly to blame. I do agree that they are controlling young minds. Ever heard of the term 'monkey see, monkey do'? My twelve year-old cousin imitates Rihanna and Lady GaGa doing all these provocative dancing moves, it's really quite disturbing. These artists are glamourising sexual behaviour through music videos and lyrics, and kids are thinking it's 'trendy' to act like that.

But I mostly blame parents for letting youngsters have access to television, internet and other forms of media at such an early age. It's parents' responsibility to set guidelines and keep them safe from all this mind-controlling rubbish. They need to educate their children themselves, and not let the mass media do the job.

[grimfang999]

For example, growth hormones in non-organic foods and meats might accumulate in the body earlier than when the pituitary gland naturally produces them. The causes maturation to occur at an earlier age.

But it seems this discussion is more psychological? Hm...well, changes in the body correlate and may cause changes in mentality, but that might not always be the case. I'd call many adolescents physically mature for their age...but mentally? Not so much.

While I do agree with you there, I was speaking along the lines of them doing things and knowing things they shouldnt at too young of an age. Personally when I first hit puberty I actually didnt like it and so just skipped the entire teenage immature stage, aside from my insanity, but that was my choice and was driven to it through peer pressure :P

Now about the growth hormones. Crtainly it does make children develop much faster, but here there is nothing that can be done sadly. The most obvious thing its doing however is making our race taller, though that might just be a process which is occuring due to greater health

@fat, ah i see. I thought that was a little extreme, but if that is the true law then I fully agree with it

I believe this generation is certainly growing up fast. I know youngsters between ages of eleven and sixteen years-old who are already drinking alcohol, going out clubbing, smoking weed and getting into relationships. I started doing all the above (besides smoking weed) when I was seventeen going onto eighteen. Teenagers are eager and pressurised to look 'cool', it's just sad.

[QUOTE]I think the mass media is partly to blame. I do agree that they are controlling young minds. Ever heard of the term 'monkey see, monkey do'? My twelve year-old cousin imitates Rihanna and Lady GaGa doing all these provocative dancing moves, it's really quite disturbing. These artists are glamourising sexual behaviour through music videos and lyrics, and kids are thinking it's 'trendy' to act like that.
yeah certainly. I think lady Gaga is an evil brainwashing bitch beyond just the dancing. How else could Bad romance get 28000000 or so views on youtube in the short space of time? I swear theres subliminal messages in the beat and videos... but yeah the media. Thus why I listen to metal. Yes, may be angry, yes, some bands may have sexual songs, but at least they are direct and there are few of them. Metal helps people mature, but in a positive way rather than destructive, promoting anti-war and not getting addicted to drugs and so on.

But I mostly blame parents for letting youngsters have access to television, internet and other forms of media at such an early age. It's parents' responsibility to set guidelines and keep them safe from all this mind-controlling rubbish. They need to educate their children themselves, and not let the mass media do the job.

Though sometimes its not the parents. While the parents maybe partial in this, but older siblings arer far to open and teach their 6 year old brothers about the things which should be left until eleven years old

[MrsSallyBakura]

The law actually stands that you are allowed to slack your child as long as no simi-premant or premant marks are left.

OK, that is something I can allow in my mind. I don't know UK law, I just know that there are people who want to make it a law, at least in the US, that we shouldn't spank children period.

It's just that I'm finding that a lot of people who are against spanking weren't spanked themselves, whereas the people for spanking are people who were spanked.

I might be able to raise a family without spanking the kids, but if there's no other way to get them under control, it'll be the last resort. I most likely won't enjoy doing it, but sometimes, parental control over tyrants is more important than feelings.

And again, there's a fine line between punishment and abuse. Know it.

[Ostinato]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/beatkid4.jpg

[Draconia Dominus]

I've never been exposed to a large amount of media in my early youth. All I watched on TV were the Olympic games and children's shows. Once I grew older, I found an interest in reading books and learning stuff (lolnerd), so I wasn't exposed to much media at all.

Now, though, my mind is probably just as 'bad' as other teen my age. Peer pressure, as mentioned a few times, is also a major cause. My friends have influenced my knowledge about sexual issues.

Regarding sexualised media, I do agree that a lot of it is giving out the wrong messages about many issues in life. Music, music videos and films are probably the main culprits. When someone is exposed to a lot of a certain thing, they receive the message that it's okay to do this, or it's 'cool' to do something irresponsible.

The funny thing is that my parents taught me next to nothing about sexual maturity. All they did is say 'don't do this because it's bad'. I only learnt about sexual stuff by listening in PD class and paying attention to my friends. The media also helped me adopt a responsible mindset to sex. I watch the news quite a bit nowadays. I know the media exaggerates a lot of the time, but it taught me that a lack of responsibility and thought in ANY matter can lead to unwanted consequences.

In short, parents aren't the only way children can learn about responsibility in mature matters, and media isn't all bad.

And again, there's a fine line between punishment and abuse. Know it.
This. However, from experience and reading up on stuff, 'positive reinforcement' (praising your child for doing things well) is a better way or encouraging positive behaviour. But that's highly besides the point.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I do agree with your post, but I just want to say

This. However, from experience and reading up on stuff, 'positive reinforcement' (praising your child for doing things well) is a better way or encouraging positive behaviour. But that's highly besides the point.

Yes, I think that positive reinforcement makes children want to make a positive impact. If they're only getting attention for the bad things they do, then all they're going to do is get in trouble.

[greymagick711]

One lecture I attended some time ago discussed a very interesting view point:

Since the beginning of someone's life, s/he is a product of their parents's genes and whoever raised them. The nature is the genes, the nurture is the parents.

Early years in life, we basically take no part in decision making in what we eat or do, or what we are even allowed to watch. This comes from a dependency on the guardians--without help, there is a slim chance for survival.

The guardians have the absolute authority and can mold immature psyche into whatever they want it to be. If they wanted to, they could even block out all negative images from the media, control what the response is to drugs, and just condition behavior.

The overall implication of the chapter was that people are direct products from their inheritance and origin. It went so far as to say that if a parent controlled the child well enough, things like peer pressure and influence from the media would not effect him/her.

And then the professor laughed and said that obviously, this doesn't apply to abandoned/living-on-their-own children. :thatface:

Yeah, I'm disagreeing with some of this because parents don't influence everything, even if they do have a great deal of 'control' over the child, especially what they learn. Of course, they could simply condition the child not to listen if they hear a certain word about a particular subject...

[Draconia Dominus]

That does sound interesting. I know some people (IRL) who have restrictive parents. However, the young people still pick up on 'mature' habits and ideas their parents don't want them to gain.

I partially agree with the lecture: the parents give the child the genes, but their environment does create a large impact on how the child's mind and body develops. Although parents can control a large part of the environment, it's impossible to reasonably filter out everything that is undesired.

An interesting thing is that the brain does not fully develop until the age of about 25. Before the age of 25, people tend to learn a lot better. A lot of the time, parents go 'do what I say, not as I do' and don't give any reasons. Media and technology are allowing people easily to access information they would not have been able to access many years ago. Sexualised media and information is quite... popular, so that could be a potential issue.

[greymagick711]

An interesting thing is that the brain does not fully develop until the age of about 25. Before the age of 25, people tend to learn a lot better. A lot of the time, parents go 'do what I say, not as I do' and don't give any reasons. Media and technology are allowing people easily to access information they would not have been able to access many years ago. Sexualised media and information is quite... popular, so that could be a potential issue.

Agrees.

Also, although children view the media, and may imitate, they might not fully understand. Does anyone remember watching the scene where Frollo sings "Hellfire" from Disney's Hunchback of Notredame? Well, it had a reference to the villain lust...which kinda went right over MY head as a child.

(This may be comparing apples and oranges here) The example above probably occurs with all the media. A child might not know all the words in a pop or metal song or what they sing about--they just might like the music and are impressioned enough to imitate what they see.

Yes, may be angry, yes, some bands may have sexual songs, but at least they are direct and there are few of them. Metal helps people mature, but in a positive way rather than destructive, promoting anti-war and not getting addicted to drugs and so on.

The face paced and loud music will stimulate the brain and heart beat, soft music just the opposite. As people who can understand it, we know nothing might be wrong with singing about peace and love, but now think about it when a child might not understand the lyrics. If they hear screaming or yelling into a microphone--it's possible they might associate it with their own unpleasant memory of being yelled at.

As they come to learn more, the media just has to do with how comfortable a minor might feel about certain aspects, or how we feel about them judging the media for themselves.

[Fat1Fared]

=OK, first of all, mini rant at something poeple keep telling me, which all this rap is evil and metal is good, in words of T4S bullcrap!
=If your going to blame media for this, then blame all of it, I mean have lived in both these "worlds" and despite both "sides" posturing of being better side, both come out just the same, just slightly different ways of living, but fact is you look at some of most influential rock bands, they did far more morally questionable stuff than most influential rap bands, I don't like rap much at all, but fact is this lets bash rap for destroying world is plain self-glamour, yes there is some rap music which makes even my libel self take a step back and think is really acceptable, but no more than when i think of Anxal Rose or Kurc Cobane and their actions, I just think that their more talented musically, but if going to have social morals judgements on them, their actions are more degraded by social levels.

-I think it is simple as this, if you want music to develop your child, then only let them listen to classical, (before their even born in fact)


=Now onto real point (though may stay with rap v metal thing as nice example,) I think Media is easy target, (IE blaming games for murder) and this still comes back to my first point, if the media is giving us all this, its because we want it generally, so just that means you who are against these things are in few, so maybe that means that your stance is not as sound as thought.
=My point is not that majority is right or you are wrong, just that I find when looking at media lot of people mix cause and effect, IE lot of poeple say papers make poeple believe dumb things that ain't true IE that law on slacking children was woefully mistranslated to public, but what actually find is poeple don't actually gain these beliefs from media, they already have them (IE already decided any action on child slacking by government wrong) and so media realises this and plays to it, by telling them what want to hear, and any time do read something don't like, the person merely ignores it.

=I bet the guys who defend metal, really like the sound of Metal and hate sound of Rap, which why defend metal and down rap, but in truth they don't really care about any of that, you just like that kind of music and go same way for those who like Rap and dislike Metal

=As for the Perential thing, that is more truth than you will ever believe, even if you come out completely different to your parents, you will have fundermentially been made by them
-IE a user of here once said she was against Obama like her parents, but not because of them, now I do not know if that is true, but I suspect the reasoning why she agrees with them is the same and that reasoning will have come from them without ether them or her realising it.
-Me, now I look back the reason I came out like I did has at 65% to do with rejecting everything my mother tried to teach me, I didn't realise that at time, but now look back, only thing can be truth

=However that being said, cannot disregard nature completely, as one woman found when se tried to make her son act like stereotyped girl and boy act like stereotyped boy, but found both naturally regressed to other side. (lot more complicated a study than that, but point is there)

[grimfang999]

First off to Greymagick, the point which I disagree with your lecturer is that in my experience if your parent is overstrictive the child will begin to rebel behind their back, perhaps as much as if the parents didnt care. And yes, if a parent does not give a reason for the child not to do something then the child is more likely to do it. For example, my mum raised me on honesty, explaining to me why I should or should ot do something. And now because of that I will not lie, as well as keeping me with strong morals because I understood why. This also links into fats later points of child does as parent does.


now on the topic of metal, Magick not all metal is screaming into a mic, even though I agree a fair amount is. If you want gentle play nightwish or something :P

Fat, when you say they should be raised on classical, you remind me of Willian Grimm, one of the most hated people to ever slander the metal community, calling the people who listen to rock and rap Apes and saying that only people who listen to classical are supreme. However I know that you dont mean it like that.

Ironically this is what I say about metal, but first I want to point a couple of things out. First off there is a corralation between the type of music and general intellegence. As Magick said metal stimulates the brain. Yes it could be argued that its because people who are outcasts who may be considered nerds may rebel and listen to it to go against everyone else, but heres an example close to me. I have a friend who is around 12. He was quite literally raised on metal (surprisingly I wasnt, my dad brought me into it after I proclaimed I hated rap music in my 8ths year at school). You know what he is? He is a freaking genius. dispite the 3/4 year difference, I consider him my interlectual equal already. In his school he has seven gifted and talented awards (though this could be due to him going to a bad school, but I think that is him being modest).

And yes, I may defend metal because I like it, but I still believe that there is generally a pattern of intellegence and, linking back to the topic, a development of maturity in the correct way.AAAAAAAAAnd also because we are more united in our ways than urban singers and rappers. Just an example, at download festival there were no fights and no tent burning. Last year at reading, playing indie (I know this is rock but still) there were tent fires. Which seems the most unified community?

Now, I find that yes, alot of the things I like my parents like and I didnt even know. for example, in year 7 or 8 we were looking at the major parties and their.... Ideaoligies? Anyways I liked Conservitive more than the others and returned home to find out my parents did also.

OK I need to go so I annot continue my argument

[greymagick711]

First off there is a corralation between the type of music and general intellegence.

Though there are some studies that were specifically made to imply that music has effect on intelligence, they should not be taken too seriously. Ex: Mozart raises test scores, Beethoven lowers test scores. That intelligence and maturation being linking to music in general is too singular. The music studies are similar to whole left brain v. right brain studies: yes, some processes are more localized but being logical versus creative doesn't mean one side is more dominant.

Furthermore, people from all music backgrounds may show the most genius or the most puerility. All music genres can be viewed as 'brainwashing.' Whether metal, classical, or pop, preferring one style to another has little do do with intelligence. The results of surveys of music/intel are obscure at best. For example, 'Pop' is commonly defined as 'popular' music from the majority of listeners. Because of the greater number, you'll find more 'intelligent' people by sifting though the majority than looking though the dedicated, but smaller, community of metal-lovers.

There is limited evidence for music helping intelligence. Though I'd be daft not to admit that intelligent people tend to be attracted to a certain type of music. Contrasting your example, my own observation is that their liked music is classical. As for maturing faster...well, what music discusses in general are higher concepts like love and war, or anti-war, or drugs; basically, real world things. Listening to these topics may at first go over a child's head, but eventually the information will bleed in.

However, is intelligence actually linked to maturing? If so, then by all means, let them listen or watch to the uncensored media. That way, they'll get more information and be exposed more, know as much as adults, and be able to make totally rational decisions.

Uh, no. Just because someone knows more doesn't mean that someone is more mature.

[grimfang999]

first off, I meant generally, not always. I was kinda rushing because I was going out. And I didnt say intellegence and maturity were the same thing.

[Draconia Dominus]

Regarding the music debate, I don't see why or how music will largely influence your level of maturity. However, there's a chance that someone may be inclined to do something negative because they heard it in a song.

But of course, media isn't purely to blame.

[Ostinato]

However, there's a chance that someone may be inclined to do something negative because they heard it in a song.

http://www.myptsmail.com/hotdog256/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/charles_manson.jpg
Like this guy.

[greymagick711]

Regarding the music debate, I don't see why or how music will largely influence your level of maturity. However, there's a chance that someone may be inclined to do something negative because they heard it in a song.

But of course, media isn't purely to blame.

This.

Music is shown to influence moods, which in turn reflect one's performance, but not intelligence. Maturity comes mostly with ageing and experience, and continues throughout the lifetime. Like personality, it's dynamic, flexible, and subject to change.

And while the media now-a-days glorifies and romanticizes war, love, gangs, police, sex, and doctors, these things existed long before they were televised. Young people are going to join gangs regardless, try drugs, etc. regardless.

If the media had to do anything with influencing a person to commit some heinous act, there was something wrong with the person to begin with. That is, a person that does not have a totally firm grip on reality.

[xHannahx]

I'm only about 15 years old,


wait, what?

[Draconia Dominus]

Something interesting that I've been researching lately is neuroscience (for extra-curricular school stuff). As we all know, people learn quicker when they are younger. There are certain windows of time called 'critical periods' in one's development which they learn certain things quicker.

What I am getting from this is if people aren't taught responsibility at an early enough age, their neural pathways are harder to shift, and as a result they may not be as responsible.

Not sure if that is relevant, though.

[Fat1Fared]

This.

Music is shown to influence moods, which in turn reflect one's performance, but not intelligence. Maturity comes mostly with ageing and experience, and continues throughout the lifetime. Like personality, it's dynamic, flexible, and subject to change.

And while the media now-a-days glorifies and romanticizes war, love, gangs, police, sex, and doctors, these things existed long before they were televised. Young people are going to join gangs regardless, try drugs, etc. regardless.

If the media had to do anything with influencing a person to commit some heinous act, there was something wrong with the person to begin with. That is, a person that does not have a totally firm grip on reality.

I was going to comment on this, but no need now, this is basically what i have been trying to say lol,
-Like those kids who blamed the GTA games for their acts of Manslaughter, seriously shouldn't someone question, why 99.9 of gamers ain't murderers?????

=Fact is yer, they glorify all this stuff, but only because we as commsumers tell them to and there are far more profound reasons why we grow up way we do than media

=DD that is something I have found interesting as well and it is one of the reasons why most poeple who have parsents who can speak two languages when their young, can also do so with ease, but what find really interesting is that despite this ability studies have shown trying to use this to teach information at younger age, still doesn't work well, for them to actually learn it, for range of reasons

[Gamemaster300]

This.

Music is shown to influence moods, which in turn reflect one's performance, but not intelligence. Maturity comes mostly with ageing and experience, and continues throughout the lifetime. Like personality, it's dynamic, flexible, and subject to change.

And while the media now-a-days glorifies and romanticizes war, love, gangs, police, sex, and doctors, these things existed long before they were televised. Young people are going to join gangs regardless, try drugs, etc. regardless.

If the media had to do anything with influencing a person to commit some heinous act, there was something wrong with the person to begin with. That is, a person that does not have a totally firm grip on reality.

Wow, this is a pretty good statement. I might want to add that depending on the age of the person, a gardian has control over what media someone sees.

[Draconia Dominus]

As far as I can tell, the media does not directly influence bad decision-making. However, it can be a factor. The media can give an audience ideas. Without media, we would not know a lot of things we now consider common knowledge.

The worst I can see media do is give someone who is already mentally unstable or immature an idea of what/how to commit a negative act.

Young people are more susceptible to new ideas and influence. Whilst merely 'giving ideas' seems like a small matter to older people, it can mean a lot to younger people in regards of what actions they perform.

[MrsSallyBakura]

I think that it's really common nowadays to involve ourselves in whatever media we want and claim that it doesn't affect us.

The more we're involved in something in particular - media, group of friends, etc - the more it shapes us as individuals. Maybe watching one Lady Gaga video won't affect you very much, but if you keep watching Lady Gaga videos then it'll shape at least a minute part of your life.

Point is, media does something. It can be good and it can be bad. And younger people are more susceptible to any kind of influence because the younger you are the more open your mind because you're still developing your world view and your character.

[dakedonani]

I think that it's really common nowadays to involve ourselves in whatever media we want and claim that it doesn't affect us.

The more we're involved in something in particular - media, group of friends, etc - the more it shapes us as individuals. Maybe watching one Lady Gaga video won't affect you very much, but if you keep watching Lady Gaga videos then it'll shape at least a minute part of your life.

Point is, media does something. It can be good and it can be bad. And younger people are more susceptible to any kind of influence because the younger you are the more open your mind because you're still developing your world view and your character.

this is very very true. i couldn't have written it any better. ^^;

[Chiru]

In certain cases, it seems that parents are encouraging it. I went to the mall recently, and I saw these little girls wearing the skankiest outfits I had ever seen. Their parents were right there. Hell, their parents probably bought those outfits. I mean, what kind of a parent lets their little girl wear high heels (plastic, but still), mini skirts, and a tube top?

I agree that children are growing up to fast, but I believe it's mostly due to faulty parenting. There are too many people in my school who involve themselves in sexual relationships. A good portion of them started in middle school. Then again, I live in an area where half these kids probably don't even see their parents more than a few times a year.

[Draconia Dominus]

Not sure how true this is, but some parents may want their children to 'grow up faster'. If this is the case, faulty parenting may be the case. You have to admit, though, parenting would be extremely difficult considering the social climate of the world today.

[ClumsyCake]

Let me see...
KRdJ49ItMnc

Some people just don't know how to raise a kid, it's pretty much the parent's fault on how the kid turns out. That's what i think.

[Draconia Dominus]

Wow, reading the title is enough to unnerve me.

However, parents don't have full control over their children. There is peer pressure and the media. I think it's a combination of factors.

[MrsSallyBakura]

So I watched the video.

Victoria talks like a stereotypical black girl, so you get a clue about the kind of people she hangs around with (not black girls necessarily, but 'ghetto' people in general).

Her mom is in denial and is very non-confrontational and it doesn't really seem like she sticks up for herself. She says, "Get off the bed" but Victoria won't get up, probably because her mom isn't yelling at her face telling her that it's her bed, she bought it, sleeps in it, and she can tell her daughter that she's not allowed to have sex on it. Her mom probably let Victoria get away with a lot of crap as a child and let Victoria boss her around.

There's also no sign of a dad. And that can be a real problem.

Some parents also like to believe that their children are perfect. My parents are teachers and they get parents who literally won't believe that their kid causes trouble in school.

I am in full belief that it's mom's fault that Victoria is like this. No, parents can't control everything that a kid does, but they can do more than this mom did for Victoria.

Also, Victoria most likely doesn't know anything about her fertility cycle, otherwise she wouldn't have needed to have sex 300 times in order to get pregnant. It's possible that she could be sterile or she keeps getting early miscarriages, but how long had she been having sex? A couple of years? That shows that she probably has sex about every 3 days instead of just during her fertile period.

[Bakura136]

Let me see...
KRdJ49ItMnc

Some people just don't know how to raise a kid, it's pretty much the parent's fault on how the kid turns out. That's what i think.
That girl sounds like an informercial... TV influence, much? But in all seriousness, I believe that the factors of the child's behaviour in later life is decided by various things.

RELATIVE BEHAVIOUR:
Parents' Personality
Parents Behaviour Towards Children
Number of Parents
Attention towards both good and bad things during early ages.
Punishment/Praise towards bad/good things.
Siblings Behaviour
Siblings Personality (Interests, Hobbies etc)
Friends


GENERAL:
Media
Home
Education

I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff that I can't be bothered typing. But In all, it mainly depends on their family and friends as well as the media. Plus there's how, when and what the parents teach their children various things about life. Establishing their sense of right and wrong.
I most certainly believe children are growing up too fast. I am also one affected by this. I'm 13 and I hang out with 16/17 year olds. In turn this has affected me that I am beginning to dislike my friends who are in the same age group as me due to their immaturity. Although, in that saying, my friends in my age group take things far too seriously which frustrates me. Whilst other people in my age group don't take things seriously enough. But during my experiences with a once silly, loud and obnoxious girl who drastically failed during classes due to her disobedience and all-round immaturity. I talked to her and found smeone who knew more than she thought. Over time, she became a girl who eagerly studied and focused hard to change her marks. Next thing I know, she's getting a school award along with $5 for excellence in terms of work.

Another example is a girl I met during scouts who constantly mumbled, failed at speech-making, covered her face and shied away during each conversation she had. I noted this to her and, although somewhat hard for her, got her out of her shy habits and encouraged to fight against what other people thought about her and to express her individuality and tell people that she was her own person. Later that week she had a speech assignment and was awarded excellence.

What I'm saying is, some people are lost causes due to how they were raised and influenced by their peers. But some people can be influenced to achieve greater things, focus on higher goals and see past the very things that pushed them into their previous state by simply being influenced in a similar fashion to do so.

Children may be growing up too fast, some are growing up too slowly and some can either sped up or slowed down. It all depends on what is most influential on their lives which is dependent on their interests and peers.

[PegasusJCrawford]

Nothing scares me more than seeing an 8 year old girl with a cellphone.
Im 18 and I dont have one, I will forever live in the 90's.

[AllisonWalker]

It depends on why they have a cell phone. If the eight year old does sports or other activities outside of home and his or her parents work, it's good to have a cell phone to keep in contact. People make a bigger deal out of it than it really is.

[PegasusJCrawford]

I mean the ones that I see in class constantly with their heads down clicking away for hours on end with no purpose. Yea its good to have for contacting parents but thats not what they're used for the majority of the time. So many kids have terrible confrontational skills because they only know how to talk to people through text, and its probably only going to get worse anyway.

I blame internet.

[AllisonWalker]

Parent your kids on what cell phones are for. Problem solved. Dealing with eight year olds isn't that difficult.

[CrazyBoutAtemu!]

Sure They Are I Mean I Dont Know Why But I Have a Feeling That They Are...Yeah

[PegasusJCrawford]

Parent your kids on what cell phones are for. Problem solved. Dealing with eight year olds isn't that difficult.

I dont think its that simple at all. But that sounds great in theory.

[AllisonWalker]

Parenting is never simple. But hey, if you don't hold your kids responsible for anything, they never will act responsible. And dealing with a snotty kid is much easier than taking on asshole teenagers. Yeah, been there (several times) before.

[pasiphae9]

I had a mobile from the age of ten and I never overused it. Why?

Because I was the one who had to pay for the credit. Problem solved!

[PegasusJCrawford]

I had a mobile from the age of ten and I never overused it. Why?

Because I was the one who had to pay for the credit. Problem solved!

This.

Parenting is never simple. But hey, if you don't hold your kids responsible for anything, they never will act responsible. And dealing with a snotty kid is much easier than taking on asshole teenagers. Yeah, been there (several times) before.

At least I agree with that.

[AllisonWalker]

I had a mobile from the age of ten and I never overused it. Why?

Because I was the one who had to pay for the credit. Problem solved!

http://www.chansondelange.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/clapping-gif.gif
Hurray to parenting!

[PegasusJCrawford]

It still scares me with I see children with cellphones though. I'm still having new millenium shock.

[AllisonWalker]

Because you're so old?

[Fat1Fared]

I had a mobile from the age of ten and I never overused it. Why?

Because I was the one who had to pay for the credit. Problem solved!

this is exactly what I was going to say (right down to the fact, I was 10, my dad gave me phone and 5 pounds credit and said now all your responsibility son, I managed to make that 5 pounds last 2 years)

=Allison is right, a big thing is made out of nothing, the problem is not the phone, it way the phone is treated which is thing really need to look at, it interesting to note that I was first person in my school to have a moblie and in the 10 years which have passed sense I got my first phone, I have only replaced it twice, both times with equally cheap and outdated models, while my friends who got their phones when about 16+, have all had 100's of the things, all being latest model and all treated with very little care or respect, take from this story what want

[AllisonWalker]

I knew a lot of kids while working at camp who kept mobile phones. The younger the kids were, the less of a problem it was. Teenagers would always be on them texting their friends instead of doing activities, but the kids would only use them to find out where their parents were on camp. Different mind set between young kids and teens.

[Fat1Fared]

well as I am now a teacher in Asian of all places, I have to say this topic is of real interest to me.

I am going to say I believe the thread myself right and that children in the west may grow in some regards too fast, but I have too say, in others I am glad I lost my innocence. Here I have met people of 26+ who live with their parents and are fundamentally children in all but name. They cannot go out without their parents permission, must get home by certain time and are completely financially dependant upon their parents still. Their only way out of this is too marry and start own family o0.
-I learnt today I still have a lot to learn about the world and in many ways childhood sucked, but at least I have learnt to look after myself and I live my own life. That is something I do not wish to change right now and I know would have too if my innocence had not been lost.

I will write more later >.

[Draconia Dominus]

Well the whole thing depends on what you define as growing up. To most, it's a combination of age, learning 'adult' things and learning to be responsible for ones' own actions and consequences. This growing up is a result of adapting to societal pressures around us, so that makes the question just a little iffy. You have to grow up to fit society's expectations, so... yeah.

HURR I come back to the forum after a year or so, and only after typing out this entire post, I realized I was the one who made the topic *facepalm*

[HolyShadow]

well as I am now a teacher in Asian of all places, I have to say this topic is of real interest to me.

I am going to say I believe the thread myself right and that children in the west may grow in some regards too fast, but I have too say, in others I am glad I lost my innocence. Here I have met people of 26+ who live with their parents and are fundamentally children in all but name. They cannot go out without their parents permission, must get home by certain time and are completely financially dependant upon their parents still. Their only way out of this is too marry and start own family o0.
-I learnt today I still have a lot to learn about the world and in many ways childhood sucked, but at least I have learnt to look after myself and I live my own life. That is something I do not wish to change right now and I know would have too if my innocence had not been lost.

I will write more later >.

I agree with Fared on every point.

[killshot]

Fared's a teacher now? I thought you went to law school. I guess we have something else in common.

[OverMind]

well as I am now a teacher in Asian of all places ...

Fared's a teacher now? I thought you went to law school. I guess we have something else in common.

Yellow fever (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yellow+fever)?

[Fat1Fared]

Holy=really? I think I was drunk, I wrote that lol

Killshot=It is short theme deal to pay my way through masters in Chinese and European law. I am learning a lot, but my inability to comprise on exposition, means I am a somewhat mundane teacher.

Overmind=Though I was able to get into a relationship with a Taiwanese girl, within 1 month of arriving in Taiwan, I refute such a claim with the power of history...I also dated an Iranian, a Ghanaian, a French girl, 2 Chinese girls and most shocking of all, an English girl 0o.
-PS and if that neurotic exposition doesn't convince you, I went for Asian girls before it was cool. >> << i actually know a guy who really has yellow fever...literally anything Asian and movable is ok for him :P

[killshot]

Yellow fever (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yellow+fever)?

I lol'd.

[HolyShadow]

Holy=really? I think I was drunk, I wrote that lol

Killshot=It is short theme deal to pay my way through masters in Chinese and European law. I am learning a lot, but my inability to comprise on exposition, means I am a somewhat mundane teacher.

Overmind=Though I was able to get into a relationship with a Taiwanese girl, within 1 month of arriving in Taiwan, I refute such a claim with the power of history...I also dated an Iranian, a Ghanaian, a French girl, 2 Chinese girls and most shocking of all, an English girl 0o.
-PS and if that neurotic exposition doesn't convince you, I went for Asian girls before it was cool. >> << i actually know a guy who really has yellow fever...literally anything Asian and movable is ok for him :P

I think I like when you're drunk.

[Zairak]

I think I like when you're drunk.

This can't be taken out of context at all.

[mystra]

as a parent i'm going to put my two cents in. my daughter is 12 and there are plenty of things i see happening in her life that in some cases correspond to what i did at her age. but there are plenty of things that aren't. concepts, thoughts, and such are in some ways more advanced. i think the advent of the internet introduces things much quicker to children these days. parents use television, video games and the internet as babysitting tools more so than in the past. while i had the internet it wasn't until i was into my mid-teens while she grew up with it. games, technology, tv, etc is much more advanced than (gasp i'm saying it) in my day.

given all that and that my view is yes kids are growing up faster i still have to view the other side of the coin. but it's SOME kids, not all. i think in part it has to do with the parent. i show my daughter old tv shows, video games and music from my generation and older. while she does everything today's kids do she loves the older things more. while they might be growing up too fast it's also a relative view. the society of the day is constantly evolving. as someone stated earlier there was a time when you were considered adult at 13. time and such is relative to the moment. in 10, 25, 50 years things will change again.

[grimfang999]

To be honest I have been thinking about this and Through history we have experienced yet another case of the Yerkes-Dodson law, though in each way of "growing up too fast" is different.

Back in the industrial revolution, and noticably still in developing countries, There is barely anything which we call childhood, working from 5 years old to get money to feed your family. In the case here children grow up into adults too fast, having to accept responsability and live only for work.

Post-industrial until the 1960-70's, we had an era of where children were allowed childhoods and reached a point where they were not in any way mature and remained innocent until mid-teens.

Now, after the peak in childhood duration, we are starting to rise out of this, but not "growing up" as in childhood to adulthood, but rather childhood to Adolescence. It can be blamed on the media, as mystra said internet exposes people more quickly, and I am pretty much certain now that media is becoming ever more sexuallised, trying to dull our braisn for easier access.

However, can it really just be blamed on media? You can blame technology, but then you chose to let them by not blocking potentially harmful sites. Computers now for kids are simply the toys of this generation, and its up to the parents to monitor what they are doing, much like watching kids play to make sure they dont choke on something they tried to swallow.

Its not just media however I have recently realised. Due to richer diets which most likely have added growth hormones (which is why our generation is generally taller), our biology is able to develop much faster and stronger than previously. Im not really a scientist in any sense, but logically this would lead to the experience of puberty at a significantly earlier age. Not sure if right here, but this can be shown as if Im not mistaken that previously the pubescent age used to start about 13-14, but now starts at 10-11. Thus people become biologically driven to discover these things, and thus its probable biology has lead to why people enter pubescent behavior faster.

Then of course, we have social factors. Liberalism has lead to people being more open about things, and kids arnt being controled as much. Older siblings therefore act more aggressive and... um... speak more sexually around younger siblings, and so the childrenw ill follow their example and we get the pre-pubescent syndrome of these overly aggressive ten year olds trying to act big. Due to conformity as well, if one child experiences early puberty or the former thing I mentioned happens and that child acts pubescently, the friends of that kid will follow and that spreads.


So therefore, they may be growing up too fast, but as an inevitability of the development of both our culture and our access to nutrients, not necessarilly of media, though it can be some degree of cause.

[Fat1Fared]

Can I just say one thing in regards to this line:-


Older siblings therefore act more aggressive and... um... speak more sexually around younger siblings,


My father told me the other week about his early teens and the discovery of porn he had in that time...a most unwanted conversation, but I think this a point to show as I said, I think we overstate this growth of sexualisation bull...I actually think that is one area we have known about for long time; just now we admit we know it.
-Even here, one of my fellow teachers was telling about a rather unwanted question she had from a young Taiwanese student...this shows several things:

1=This is very cultural-in the west my rather interesting father had no shame in admitting he knew about this stuff...in Taiwan, the knowledge is there, but the only person this girl felt she could ask was her none-taiwanese teacher because she was the only person this girl could think of who would be open to talking about such things...as it was; the teacher wasn't. lol

2=Shows we know, whether admit it or not.

3=Shows, the innocence thing is not about sex and the only reason people make about that, is because that is an easy target for the conservatives to attack as know area even most liberals still fluster over a little. The loss of innocence is far deeper than that intruth, it is too with an ability to understand the world outside our front door and know their is more to life than us. An ability to sense where we should go without being told and the willingness to look for our own responsibility.

One of the things that exasperates me about Taiwanese society is that most children here are so mothered that they lack any ability to develop their own sense of personality and direction, meaning they won't choose their own dinner without feeling the need to get permission from a higher authority first. I think one of the things which strangely attracted my girlfriend about me, was the sense of self I had...I often make really bad decisions, but at least I make a decision, something she had rarely seen in Taiwan, even in herself.
-I now take her cloths shopping, because I know she likes new cloths and such stuff, but she feels incapable of going into a store without someone to tell her the item is ok for her to buy, because her mother always brought her cloths for her previously. o0.
-Even now just had a girl whose is supposed to be a friend of my girlfriend, rejected meeting us because we did not know exactly where we were going and what we would do, which scared her too much...

This is the side where I feel in the west we grow up faster and in many ways, I am glad we do. However I realise there are down sides too.

[HolyShadow]

I read Grim and Fared's posts, and I have a question.

Since when is sex a bad thing? The danger lies in that it's easy to get addicted to, but other than that, I feel like religion (mostly Judaism and the religions that spawned from its base) is to blame for the very idea that sex is somehow a bad thing.

People seem to push this idea that sex is intrinsically bad, and I don't really understand why now. Yeah, it can be dangerous, but that kinda goes out of the window with the pill, condoms, vasectomy, and tons of other ways of preventing impregnation.

Even if kids grow up to teenagers quickly, and sexualization is an integral part of that... how's that a bad thing? Is it that they're just not smart enough to realize the importance of proper condom use? I don't think so.

I think that because teenagers are afraid of confronting their parents (usually women, I don't think men mind as much) about sex (as well as pretty much anyone in their community of any real experience), they're simply unable to get ahold of stuff like that to the extent that they need.

But I don't really know. What do you guys think?

[Fat1Fared]

I have a question...since when did I...mr hoe...call sex bad? My post was saying this conversation has nothing to do with sex and sex is just scapegoat as people like to make out that somehow the past was more moral and sexual repression was part of that, but it wrong on two fronts...one repression is never good...two people weren't repressed, they just lied that they were..., if anything, we fundmentally agree here, I think.

PS I could add a third that to consider our ancestors moral is at its core bullfeck of highest order and I can never understand this anti-modern day feeling people like to hold.

[grimfang999]

Well yeah in society it is considered an ethical norm that sex is a bad thing outside of loving relationship, most likely due to the as mentioned religion.

For me, I think it is mainly about mental and emotional preparation. You must learn and understand the risks involved and after the act your mind may not be able to actually cope with it. Again though this may be of societys norms.

Then again though, in psychology we have recently been looking at relationships, and one theory suggests that women are generally monogymous by nature, while men are polygymous, which does suggest sex is nothing wrong with sleeping around for men. But then women have the monogamy desire because they require a male to take care of them and the child. Men have been shown to have greater sexual jealousy, as in are against their women having another partner, while women are against emotional betrayal. This has evolved into society, and thus religion, to make society completely monogymous, and wrong to sleep around.

It is a valid point that you made though, but nonetheless if we were in a polygymous society and women still wanted these rights, men would continue this sexual jealousy and fight with each other even more, which would inevitably lead to social breakdown. In his sense, it is needed for us to work as a united society.

Although, we can look at the ancient Greeks, who apparently used homosexual sodomy to form bonds between the ranks.

In the end though, we are talking about teenagers, and the monogamy comes about more in early adulthood, so it remains a grey area as to why we consider it bad.

And yes, through proper condo use you can prevent the spread of STDs and pregnancy, but the problem is not every teenager does, and it is likely a no-go area for teens nowadays because they arnt always responsable enough to follow the necessary guidelines, so we are taught not to be promiscious, at least not in our teenage years, until we have learned our responsabilities and thus are prepared.

In the end, people disapprove more of teenage promiscuity more than adult promiscuity, so thats likely the reason. The earlier discussed point is likely why adults who do that are looked down upon.

[HolyShadow]

These are some interesting answers, thank you.

Though I disagree with you on many points, grim, I doubt I'd be able to get you to change your mind, so I'll keep that to myself unless someone else brings it up.

[grimfang999]

Well they arnt really my actual opinion as much as it is just pondering as to why. I personally have been raised to seeit pretty much as a commitment to the other person, regardless of the purpose. As I said, the reason why we disapprove of sex is pretty much a grey area with no real answer, so all I can say is opinion and theories.

[maisetofan]

OK, that is something I can allow in my mind. I don't know UK law, I just know that there are people who want to make it a law, at least in the US, that we shouldn't spank children period.

It's just that I'm finding that a lot of people who are against spanking weren't spanked themselves, whereas the people for spanking are people who were spanked.

I might be able to raise a family without spanking the kids, but if there's no other way to get them under control, it'll be the last resort. I most likely won't enjoy doing it, but sometimes, parental control over tyrants is more important than feelings.

And again, there's a fine line between punishment and abuse. Know it.

Good post, however I am more prone to be against spanking/smacking because as a child our upbringing centred around it and I have memories of it in-sighting fear and distrust more than anything. sometimes it can get to out of hand and parents end up smacking their children for minor things such as not cleaning their room or not washing up when asked the first time.

that being said there is a fine line between punishment and abuse and if I ever had more than one child I would probably be tempted to give them the odd smack but I do not see myself having more than one, one child is more than enough thanks :)