Piracy on the internet: ruining the media empire or it’s next step forward

[KingOfTheRubberDucks]

Internet piracy I'm talking about all forms film, TV, music and anything else. is it just plain illegal and ruining the media empire or is it there next step forward for these form of media?

[yamiangie]

I'll bite because I don't think we have a thread on this yet
Well it shows two things 1) companies have major problems with meeting supply in markets that there is demand but are far away
2)people hate playing for stuff

I truly believe that we are part of a random that engages in such rampant piracy of copyrighted material is because we don't have them giving us an appealing product at a the time we want it and at a decent price.

[Fat1Fared]

this is an interesting one indeed, aspecially for someone who studies law like me.

-I think it comes down to a subjective test of reasonableness like the Ghoosh test used for thief in English law, as this is a form of thief.

=I look at this way, if someone copies and pastes a 20p paper actile on internet which not there already by publishers will, that is copyright which is wrong, because to honest, its 20p, if your not willing to such honest price, then it is wrong, however then take anime, here looking at things worth up 100 pounds worth of media and in that very fact lies the problem, though it is now lessening in regard (thus the reason my Anime DVD collection is increasing) Anime is something which is niche area and so thus they charge stupid prices for it, and so then people are more justified in their actions of looking for alternate forms of viewing it as those creating are just wrong in that regard and so only way to make them realise will own be forced or abused into paying such thief like prices is to fight back in the ways we can by not buying it.
=Now we appearing to be winning this fight because price of Anime is increasing deceasing (though this probably also greatly coinside with the fast growing popularity of anime, thus the growth of its avariability) and there will come a time when it flips to the other side and becomes wrong to do this because they will be no abusive nature towards those wishing to view anime.

=As for Abridging, I think the compainies which take it personally, need to get over themselves, so what if 100,000 odd poeple in the world watch falsely dubbed images, this in no way affects their profits and is them just get angsty about poeple making fun of them

[yamiangie]

Yeah Abridging isn't very harmful since since most of the good abridges rip off dvds to maintain video quality. And it's mostly pointless to go around downloading and re uploading parody fan subs.

The real problem is it's very hard to plug all the holes once something gets out onto the internet. One problem is that companies were to late in properly exploring digital distribution online.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Abridging is parody and therefore should be protected by copyright.

Copyright on the Internet definitely needs to exist for the reasons that Fared stated, and it's also not fair to people who make a living out of selling their music and movies, but at the same time, I agree with Angie that the reason why people pirate in the first place is because everything costs so much money.

[TitanAura]

I despise big companies that attempt to make the claim that every piracy download is a lost sale because if that were the case, every downloaded movie would be the Avatar phenomenon and every song would be an instant Platinum. I had a very short "one night stand" with piracy when I first downloaded the Orange Box off of a torrent site. I then played Portal and felt dirty and ashamed. I immediately removed it from my computer, installed Steam, and bought it. Now I'll still read manga and anime off of the internet but my main source for both is either official websites and my local library. One Piece is mainly my online fix because for YEARS One Piece has been fucking about with the non-conclusion of the Alabasta Arc. Only recently have they decided to catch up over the next couple months and thank fuck for that, lazy jackasses. Regardless, I do not pirate music (I rip borrowed CDs for personal listening) nor do I pirate movies/show/etc anymore due to massive free official online distribution.

HOWEVER, Mother 3 is the only exception. Fuck off Nintendo, HAL would be more than happy to port it to the DS (why the fuck else would they put Lucas in Brawl?) and why not do the other 2 as well? Capcom did exactly that for Ace Attorney (all of which I own except Investigations because when I play as Edgeworth I want to be sending innocent people to prison and watching them rot bwahaha.) and look at how that went over. FUCK, Fire Emblem had zero knowledge outside of Japan and now it's HUGE. Unless you're still butt hurt about Earthbound bombing in the US and PAL regions? Walk it off you pansy. That was your punishment for the Super Mario Bros movie.

[yamiangie]

on the Anime news network cast i think the piracy cut the sales of the Black Jack manga by like 20%

[Draconia Dominus]

The high costs of intellectual property combined with the fact it is easily and readily copied greatly assists piracy.

From what I read somewhere (not sure if this figure is correct), but according to an independent survey, 50% of people who pirate justify their act say they download because of a lack of money.

Copyright law was created in the first place to protect the rights of those with intellectual property.

I have mixed thoughts on piracy. I think that large corporations are plain greedy. Piracy wouldn't seem to make such a large difference to their profits as not many people will want to buy the property because of the price. On the other hand, it's illegal, and would greatly annoy whoever created it. For smaller parties, piracy would be a huge setback.

Then comes SecuROM and the gaming community goes crazy.

[Fat1Fared]

=May I ask why this stupid site logs you out when your posting, god damit, just lost everything I wrote, seriously its such a pain in the ass

=Well anyway, like tried to write before -_- (PS if anything sounds angsty, I am annoyed at stupid site, no one here)

yami I agree, they could have been quicker into this market, but think saw it as too small a thing until already too late and only now starting to catch up

Sally think you misunderstood my point, I was not advocating ether side really, just saying that their are times you can defend it and times cannot
IE I brought all 3 series of ghost in shell, because they were mere 4 pounds each, so it was really cheap, however deathnote was also on sale in same store, but want 20 pounds for mere 3 episodes, which meant to buy the whole series would cost over 350 p

[MrsSallyBakura]

Sally think you misunderstood my point, I was not advocating ether side really, just saying that their are times you can defend it and times cannot
IE I brought all 3 series of ghost in shell, because they were mere 4 pounds each, so it was really cheap, however deathnote was also on sale in same store, but want 20 pounds for mere 3 episodes, which meant to buy the whole series would cost over 350 p

OK, I see what you're saying now.

I will typically buy my music, but I'll usually watch anime online instead of buying it, even though I would really like to buy it sometimes. For example, I had to watch Sailor Moon online for free because the least expensive DVD set cost over $80, and that's only one of 5 seasons.

But I did buy one season of Rozen Maiden, and I'll get the other one sometime in the near future.

[TitanAura]

OK, I see what you're saying now.

I will typically buy my music, but I'll usually watch anime online instead of buying it, even though I would really like to buy it sometimes. For example, I had to watch Sailor Moon online for free because the least expensive DVD set cost over $80, and that's only one of 5 seasons.

But I did buy one season of Rozen Maiden, and I'll get the other one sometime in the near future.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention several occassions when I was unknowingly duped into buying pirated DVDs from an online store. I can't remember the name but here's the answer to all DVD piracy problems: AMAZON.COM

Cheaper, safer, and just plain better quality. Bought several Miyazaki movies and Evangelion + movies and when some of them were randomly lacking the English dubs that I KNEW existed, I finally figured it out. The packaging looks extremely professional though so it took a while.

[killshot]

I'd like to make the argument that file sharing (media companies would like you to believe you are stealing, but really you are just making a copy) is actually beneficial to media distributors, or at the very least the music industry. The common misconception is that for every downloaded album, the music industry loses a sale. That isn't true by any stretch of the imagination. People download way more than they purchase because music costs money and if you don't like what you bought, you just wasted your money. Downloading is a convenient, no strings attached way to sample music without any risk. The best thing about downloading is that it gives people a chance to discover new music that they would not have otherwise been able to afford. This opens up a whole new market that would have otherwise been ignored. Instead of people only knowing about top 40 radio hits, downloading gives them a chance to broaden their horizons and sample new genres which leads to more bands being discovered and more opportunities to buy their music.

Something that I thought should have been mentioned earlier is that album sales do not directly support the artist. Buying albums only gives money to the record companies and supports a system that in all honesty needs to die. Artists make most of their money from concert ticket sales and band merch such as t-shirts. Downloading albums spreads the word about new bands and increases the rate of ticket sales and merchandise. Its true that if a band doesn't make enough money for the record label, the label drops the band, but there are plenty of bands that do well on independent labels. I've seen some recent statistics that suggest that album sales are decreasing, but the sale of concert tickets and merchandise is on the rise. The industry has enough marketing power to sustain itself on radio hits and the casual music fans who consume them, but downloading helps spread the word about new artists looking for some recognition.

As for me, I am a fairly big downloader. My music collection contains less than 1% of songs I've legally purchased and I only bought those because they were rare or they were being sold for charity. I do own several band shirts and I would go to concerts if I didn't live in the styx.

My physical collection of anime is fairly sizable, however my downloaded collection is easily three times that size. I would use Netflix, but I sometimes like to rewatch stuff I like with friends so I would be hesitant to return anything. I don't often read manga, but I do occasionally read comics which are much harder to find online. I would buy them at a local comic store, but once again, not too many comic readers in the styx. My only options are buying online or downloading, and I don't feel like waiting for a short monthly comic to be delivered.

Videogames are about the only things I still consistently buy. I have a pretty big collection and only one or two downloaded games. One of them is Fire Emblem 6 which was never released in the United States. I have downloaded more games, but I always end up buying physical copies because it just doesn't feel the same to me. Plus, I just like the satisfaction of seeing the game on my shelf.

[Fat1Fared]

Killshot while your point does hold some merit and it is probably true that 90% of anime I have seen, I would not have been able to if was not for streaming sites....etc and there are more than few plan to buy when I finally can, the idea that consents and exturnal sales make money is only true for the larger bands, most smaller bands and those breaking into the buisness are ones who will severly hurt by these actions, so I would not say it is a complete lie to say that downloading will hurt music industary, however I think banks like Artic Monkey's got it about right in this age, just sale your muisc cheap online and make CD's....etc a niche thing like they made Records a niche thing

=Like said for such samething, it is a very gray area where truth is no matter what happens, as always the status quo will end up winning in end

[KingOfTheRubberDucks]

I didn't say this at the start because I wanted to hear other people opinions (before I say anything I want to make it clear I know next to nothing about copyright laws so correct me if I'm wrong please). I think that this is the next step forward and one in which the media world has to adapt, the artist: Prince understands this giving his recent album away for free with 'the Sunday times' know that all they money now lies in touring.

[BeforeBirthday]

I have oddly inconsistent morals. I'll only download a song if I can't but it through iTunes. Also, I'm totally fine with illegal software. However, that's a different discussion. While I believe that we should support musical artists in order to ensure future hits, WeirdSmells has an argument that, while I disagree with it, I feel obliged to share. He believes that those who would make you pay for music do not need more money; those that give their music away are in need of money. Make what you will of this statement. I think that it is simply his excuse for stealing.

[Underling]

I HAVE TORRENTED OVER 1TB OF ANIME

FUCK DA POLICE

[HarleyThomas1002]

Each media is slowly (and in some cases hastily) dying. Just look at the radio. The newspaper made it an obsolete news source and television and the internet are making it obsolete.

A documentary I watched about the porn industry mentioned that the once three billion dollars a year industry has taken a serious blow (snicker) due to the internet making it easier and cheaper to find what you want, when you want it, and sometimes where you want it.

Television is taking a big hit because you can find damn near anything on torrent websites.

And recently with e-books coming out, printing presses and other industries used in the book making process are going to be the next failing industry.

Hell, it's already that way with manga as you can find most of it online.

Not much anyone can do about it.

[Shiny]

I tend to feel that piracy is a bad thing for anime and manga companies, because of their limited outlets for income. With anime, if people stop watching a show that is being aired on TV, then they may not have high enough ratings to continue and may end up getting dropped. Sure they can sell DVDs and box sets, but I doubt that they really make a large profit off of those anyway.

As for manga, the only outlet they have is the physical copy of their print, so I would imagine that this industry probably suffers the most from things going digital. I think both of these industries would benefit from offering their official products for direct download on the internet at a much cheaper price than their physical counterparts. In the case of anime, sites like Hulu make shows much easier to access, and the companies can still make a profit off of the advertisements played during the shows.

While I don't totally agree with the way things are going, I do think that the market needs to adapt to the changes, because there is probably no going back from here. Whichever companies can make the right changes in their distribution will flourish, and the ones who can't will unfortunately go by the wayside. That's how business has been for years.

[MrsSallyBakura]

And recently with e-books coming out, printing presses and other industries used in the book making process are going to be the next failing industry.

That may not necessarily be true. There are still plenty of people who would much rather hold a physical copy of a book rather than read it off a Kindle. Bookstores are still packed with books with hundreds of shelves... I find it hard to believe that that's going to change anytime soon.

While I don't totally agree with the way things are going, I do think that the market needs to adapt to the changes, because there is probably no going back from here. Whichever companies can make the right changes in their distribution will flourish, and the ones who can't will unfortunately go by the wayside. That's how business has been for years.

I agree. Rebel all you want, but it won't do any good. People aren't going to change their ways just because of a few suing scares and whatnot.

[TitanAura]

That may not necessarily be true. There are still plenty of people who would much rather hold a physical copy of a book rather than read it off a Kindle. Bookstores are still packed with books with hundreds of shelves... I find it hard to believe that that's going to change anytime soon.
That's how I feel about books. Certainly it's more "environment friendly" to do something electronically, but lets be honest. Books aren't killing our environment in terms of paper weight so when companies say they're "going green" by making all paper work electronic, they're blowing it out of their ass (the majority of deforestation is done to clear land for cattle so we can have more burgers *TV SAID SO! =D*).

I honestly wish we could get over ourselves, murder PETA, and go back to living off the land to some degree and depopulate our overabundant animal populations (in Michigan that would be deer) by eating them. But that won't happen.

[greymagick711]

And now we have real authors against fanfiction. (http://grrm.livejournal.com/151914.html)

Which I can see some of them getting offended for seeing someone else put their characters into a completely ludicrous situation, but at the same time...well, I always viewed it a a form of praise for the original authors.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Anne Rice has been against people making fanfics out of her stories for a long time. This isn't anything new.

I think authors have every right to be for or against fanfiction, and it's rare for fans to demand money for the stuff they come up with, especially with the invention of FF.Net, where most people decide to put their fanfiction and where it's guaranteed that you won't make any money off your work.

[KingOfTheRubberDucks]

Each media is slowly (and in some cases hastily) dying. Just look at the radio. The newspaper made it an obsolete news source and television and the internet are making it obsolete.

Radio is still going very strong, because it was pushed out news coverage it had to evolve quickly and it became the music and (for want of a better name) chat programs we get today. TV isn't making it obsolete because we all know that radio is still alive and strong we listen to it in the car, whilst working & at socail event like BBQ's. It was forced it to evolve which is what I think the rest of the media needs to do now. I'm not going to pretend that there is an obvious solution because there isn't but times have changed and media needs to do so with it.

[TitanAura]

Radio is still going very strong, because it was pushed out news coverage it had to evolve quickly and it became the music and (for want of a better name) chat programs we get today. TV isn't making it obsolete because we all know that radio is still alive and strong we listen to it in the car, whilst working & at socail event like BBQ's. It was forced it to evolve which is what I think the rest of the media needs to do now. I'm not going to pretend that there is an obvious solution because there isn't but times have changed and media needs to do so with it.
Radio will live on because the moment drivers lose their entertainment during a long road trip is the day we all die horribly in a car fire. Said situations also apply to buses, trains, and planes.

[TitanAura]

On the issue of fan fiction, I am 99% against it. My reasoning? It detracts from real creativity and fords originality at the source into the mainstream flow of ripoffs. I feel that if people are going to write something, they should bring something to the table, regardless of how malformed it may be. Creating original characters is not all that hard. After all, every character in existence is some variant of a Mary Sue. The difference is how they're written in terms of their dialogue, their mannerisms, and their humanistic strengths and weaknesses. The same goes for the creation of a world. Any and every fantastical thing you can think of has been done before. They are simply executed differently.

What's the other 1% of my argument? Crossovers and cameos. I f**king love 'em and anyone who plays Death Note TFG could probably guess that. But they walk a very fine line. Some of the more serious ones are awesome like The Avengers or Justice League done by the seasoned professionals of shared universes. When I think of two worlds colliding, I want to see them reacting to each others' bizarre circumstances and poking fun at the cliches strewn throughout, all the while ignoring the oddities of their own fucked up dimension. As of late, one crossover comes to mind that caught me totally by surprise. Turtles Forever. I never thought anything good would come out of mixing two series with completely different tones and become something wholly entertaining and *hilarious*. It just goes to show you that when the writers are in for the fun of it, so can everyone else.

I would have more to say about this topic but frankly, I'm already bored writing about it.

[Kanap]

Radio is still going very strong, because it was pushed out news coverage it had to evolve quickly and it became the music and (for want of a better name) chat programs we get today. TV isn't making it obsolete because we all know that radio is still alive and strong we listen to it in the car, whilst working & at socail event like BBQ's. It was forced it to evolve which is what I think the rest of the media needs to do now. I'm not going to pretend that there is an obvious solution because there isn't but times have changed and media needs to do so with it.
Honestly the radio in my area sucks and therefore is not used by me almost ever as I have CD's of bands and songs I want to hear not the same 10 mainstream bands that the public enjoys. So I say Pandora is going to make the radio stations take a hit (as soon as i can get it to work in my 1984 Dodge van...)

[KingOfTheRubberDucks]

Honestly the radio in my area sucks and therefore is not used by me almost ever as I have CD's of bands and songs I want to hear not the same 10 mainstream bands that the public enjoys. So I say Pandora is going to make the radio stations take a hit (as soon as i can get it to work in my 1984 Dodge van...)

Yes you may listen to CD's but you are (not trying to be rude) only one person and there mat be many people listen to the radio.

[Chiru]

I don't know. I download illegally/view online scanlations, but at the same time, if I absolutely love the artist, I will save up and purchase the album or manga. (I never buy DVDs. =P) To me, downloading is just me sampling the CD/manga. If I like it, I'll buy. If I don't, I won't and it'll just rot in my iPod and never get played.

However, I can understand that companies and artists are losing money, which is why I even bother buying in the first place. I feel bad, but there's no way I can afford to buy every song/manga I'm into at the moment, so I just buy what I absolutely have to have.

Plus, I feel like a good majority of the artists I listen to make a lot of money anyway. The ones I don't think make that much I actually buy from.

It's like what Utada Hikaru said: (paraphrasing, but it's still the same idea) You know, if you really don't have the money, just download it- I don't need the money. (It's on YouTube...but maybe not anymore.)

[Turtlicious]

On the issue of fan fiction, I am 99% against it. My reasoning? It detracts from real creativity and fords originality at the source into the mainstream flow of ripoffs. I feel that if people are going to write something, they should bring something to the table, regardless of how malformed it may be. Creating original characters is not all that hard. After all, every character in existence is some variant of a Mary Sue. The difference is how they're written in terms of their dialogue, their mannerisms, and their humanistic strengths and weaknesses. The same goes for the creation of a world. Any and every fantastical thing you can think of has been done before. They are simply executed differently.

What's the other 1% of my argument? Crossovers and cameos. I f**king love 'em and anyone who plays Death Note TFG could probably guess that. But they walk a very fine line. Some of the more serious ones are awesome like The Avengers or Justice League done by the seasoned professionals of shared universes. When I think of two worlds colliding, I want to see them reacting to each others' bizarre circumstances and poking fun at the cliches strewn throughout, all the while ignoring the oddities of their own fucked up dimension. As of late, one crossover comes to mind that caught me totally by surprise. Turtles Forever. I never thought anything good would come out of mixing two series with completely different tones and become something wholly entertaining and *hilarious*. It just goes to show you that when the writers are in for the fun of it, so can everyone else.

I would have more to say about this topic but frankly, I'm already bored writing about it.

I'd just like to say anyone who writes fan-fiction should just change the characters name and make it real fiction

and also Why do people ship brock and ash...?

why?

WHY!?

It burns my eyes...

[KlawedFlaw]

I'd consider it a step forward in advertising. I mean, we actually GET to see what we're getting ourselves into. I have a few ROMs I would love to buy as actual game carts or CDs. I can't, sadly. I have a lot of music I would love to have CDs of, but my dad would metaphorically rip my head off if he heard one mention of the phrase, "What the Hell." >_>

At least my parents don't know Rogue Galaxy has a use of the F word.

[Darkhallows]

I dunno... I've watched a lot of series I wouldn't have otherwise online. So I don't think I'm against it.
The way I see it, it's like lending a book to a friend. I read it, he reads it, the next person reads it, etc. My mother never buys books, she just gets it from a friend and passes it on to the next person and so on.
And a library. I'm sure people check out CDs, copy them and return them. I do... xD. Or books, or movies, manga, whatever. It's all at the library- free.
So, why not use the internet?
(also, as for fanfiction, if you don't like it, don't read it...)

[Turtlicious]

...

also keep in mind mods...

THey are technically illegal but can add alot to a game I know for a fact Left 4 Dead on the pc does so well because of the mods and custom maps you can play on!

[Blaydrix]

The only stuff I pirate is stuff I probably wouldn't be purchasing anyway. If I'm a fan of something already I'll buy it; I buy manga volumes that I've already read online, and most of the anime I own I got into because of piracy. Hetalia, FMA, Evangelion, etc. But some stuff I just don't want to spend the little money I have to own it, but I do wand to know what it is like.

[ThePRPD]

The way I see it, it's like lending a book to a friend.
Except there is nothing wrong with lending a book, movie, CD, .mp3, game, etc. to a friend. It's legal.
However, it's not when it's done on the net amongst a lot of people.

Also in Libraries you must return the book and if you don't you have to pay a late fee. How much is depending on how long you've kept the book after the return date and if you decided to just keep the book with no intention of returning you're stealing from the library.