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Old 03-10-2013
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Zairak Zairak is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShizukaMikudou View Post
Actually, there is already something with the definition of "does not claim to have a religion" - Agnosticism. Yes, atheism is the belief that there is no god, meaning it does lack the belief in any known god. What atheism does believe, though, is as said, the lack of any being called "god".

Believing in a god does not set the foundation for a system of morals either. It's the worldview that sets the foundation for every belief, including morals. Why do we believe killing innocent people is wrong? What tells us that breaking the law is wrong? Is it our instincts? Our conscience? Even in following any set of laws, we are accepting something else as a higher importance and in a way, giving that thing the title of "god". Atheism in claiming that there is no god claims that laws and morals hold no influence over a person's own choices, which in fact makes every person his or her own god. A "god" does not always label some powerful, magical person or statue. A god is any thing that people respect regard as more powerful than themselves.

So it is in fact an inverted belief to think that atheism is being generalized. ^^

There are phrases that self destruct, such as "There is no truth" and "Atheists don't believe in anything", because then "There is no truth" must not be a truth either, and to say that "Atheists don't believe in any religion" means that atheists don't believe in atheism, the belief that there is no "god", either. xD
That is also not true. Agnosticism is merely not making a claim that there is or is not a god and is generally applied to believing in an undefined higher power. They hold that such things are inherently unknowable.

As I said. Atheism is the lack of a belief in a god in its most basic form. Somebody who does believe that there isn't a god can be considered an atheist, true. But a religious zealot can still be considered a Christian in that same vein. It's the distinction between lacking belief in something and claiming to have proof that something does not exist.

What you are doing is combining the two under one blanket statement. That is the exact definition of making a generalization.

I did not claim that believing in a god sets the foundation for a system of morals, though a large number of religion practitioners do treat it that way.

Now...

You appear to be using two definitions for 'claiming there is or is not a god' here. Certainly, things of higher importance can be considered a "god" to somebody, in a very loose sense of the term. But that's not what the core of the religious debate is about. It is literally about whether something made creation of its own will or it did not. To apply the term 'religion' as loosely as you're trying to do destroys any applicability it can have even to itself.

For instance, take somebody who values hard work and achievement above anything else. Under your logic, they would consider such concepts the driving force and motivation behind their life, or their "god". But you can hardly say Atheists are claiming that does not exist. It is simply watering down the concept of "religion" and "god" in what is honestly a pretty twisted logic. It does not apply in context.

I will say it again. Atheism cannot be defined as a "belief". Its core definition is a lack of belief. Agnosticism is the stance that the existence of a deity cannot be proven or disproven. These are two very different stances, where Atheism's core is that there is no proof of a higher power in the context of religion.

The sentence you posted,

Quote:
"Atheists don't believe in any religion" means that atheists don't believe in atheism, the belief that there is no "god", either. xD
In particular is fallacious. Atheism is not a belief system or a religion. There is no logical fallacy in atheists not "believing in any religion", as you put it, as Atheism is not, again, a religion. It is not a belief. It is a lack of belief.

If this isn't coming across clear enough, just look at the roots of the word, A- and -Theism.

Theism is the belief that at least one deity exists, at its base.

The root "A-" is used to denote an opposite concept.

"Atheism", then, is the lack of a belief that at least one deity exists.
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