#31
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Um no. lol If you can't stay on subject, I'm going to have to ask Sally to come moderate this topic. Either be respectful or get out. Thank you.
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#32
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So basically, what I'm saying is you can't rehabilitate everyone because there's too many of these kinds of people in prison settings who just don't care about what they are doing. |
#33
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So much pseudo-science being thrown around in this thread.
Do you have a source for this statistic? Common sense dictates that there is no way this could possibly be true. |
#34
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Then shut up about psychopaths and sociopaths if you don't want me to analyze your reading of the differences between them and such. If you can't stay on subject, I'm going to have to ask Sally to come moderate this topic.
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#35
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#36
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Do you also know that most pedophiles hate themselves and there is currently a very successful programme in the UK where pedophiles live very productive lives in their own community. Many of them even choose to take the sip, so as to destroy any chance of them falling to temptation again. I am not saying this programme will work for all or that every pedophile will be repentant, but this shows that everyone, even those who commit the worst of crimes, deserves some sort of chance at this, at least. Moritz College of Law published a paper which has also shown that most victims of crime actually feel far more justice at the criminals showing remorse for the wrongs they have committed against the victims than they do at seeing criminals publicly humiliated. Quote:
That being said, I actually do believe there is a fair debate to be had for whether rehabilitation is suitable for murderers and other high-level criminals, so I will address it in due course. So, as I said previously, while I would hesitate to refute the point that there will be people who do not response to rehabilitation, I will not accept the idea that there are those who do not even deserve the chance and that we should just give up on people before we even try. One of the most famous criminals ever executed was a prostitute was spent her whole life being raped, beaten and abused before she finally went insane and became a mass-murderer. This is someone whom had been destroyed and forsaken by society and then that same society which failed to protect her had the gull to judge and even execute her. I believe she was not evil or 'beyond saving', but the problem is society was so busy judging her that no one ever even tried. If me believing this makes me a soft-touch, then so be, at least I am strong enough to admit when society - and myself as a part of it - failed. Her execution was not an act of mercy, it was a final act of mockery at the sick and twisted joke which had been her life - a life which we had been all too willing to waste. As for your idea that they are 'better off dead than in prison'; well, you may believe that, but that is not a judgement call you can make. If society wishes to have a moral compass and deem that taking the life of another is wrong, then society must live by that rule, as well, otherwise we become the very thing we are trying to protect ourselves from, as the case above shows. Furthermore, as I have shown, even the most heinous of criminals can show remorse and turn their lives around - if we want to live in a right-minded and free society, then we must give them the chance. We probably cannot undo the wrongs they have committed, but us committing an equal wrong is not going to in anyway make the previous better. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Quote:
I see that now and it is a concept I can empathise with, but I feel that while there may be a truth to the idea that rehabilitation will not work for all; it would we a great atrocity for us not to try. QUOTE] AllisonWalker, quit talking out your ass. I read what you said about social disorders and it sounds almost completely like bullshit. I'm not even going to dignify it with a specific response. Don't play with the big boys if you can't hit the ball.[/QUOTE] Indeed, my sister and a chief psychiatric nurse of 7 years experience in some of the UKs most famous prisons for the criminally insane, with a host of psychological training under her belt and a masters to come thinks she talking out of her arse, so there we go. The only statistic which comes anywhere close to agreeing with her is that about 60 per cent of those with criminals records are diagnosed with 'mental illness'; however, the majority of these have things such as depression, so I would hardly call them 'sociopaths'. :P Last edited by Fat1Fared; 07-21-2013 at 05:48 PM. |
#37
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I never once said they were pyschopaths, smart one. I said 50% of people in prison fall into the description of being a sociopath, which falls into having an anti-personality disorder, which is not anything like being a psychopath. Note even close. If you're going to call me wrong, how about you not switch around terms for disorders that you clearly don't understand the differences between, Fared.
Anti-social personality disorder goes a little farther than just being depressed, too. I'm really doubting their of you know anything about what you're talking about because I know from my own professional background of actually having worked in clinic psychology and talking to providers that this is the case for many people who are incarcerated. |
#38
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I don't really know what this thread is about and I also don't know all the scientific terms for different syndromes and disorders.
What I do know however is that I myself am social incompetent, by which I mean that I don't instinctively know how do deal with other humans, often behave in a way that hurts others and don't feel compassion. But still I am trying my best to make others happy, even though I usually fail. I don't want to make them happy because I would suffer from bad conscience or compassion, in fact I could be evil without feeling guilty, but I care for everyone, because the value of an emotion doesn't change depending on who has that emotion. my joy isn't better than other people's joy, therefore I try gaining the most happiness for everyone and not only for myself. On the other hand my mother, who works in jail, told me that most prisoners are very nice, even the murderers. Social competence has nothing to do with being a good human. If this doesn't fit the topic, I am sorry. didn't mean to bother you. |
#39
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However, if you are going to be precious about it, then I shall revert it to sociopath for you; I really do not care because you are still wrong - having an anti-social personality disorder is not the same as being a sociopath. Furthermore, 50 per cent of prisoners do not have anti-social personality disorders, so there we have it, you are wrong, there are no statistics which back you up and the fact you were asked to provide just one, but still failed to do so is a testament to how wrong you are. Finally, if you worked in clinical psychology, then why can you not even spell the term correctly? Oh, and psychopath/sociopath - these are not disorders. God, do you even know the first thing about psychology? Last edited by Fat1Fared; 07-22-2013 at 01:38 AM. |
#40
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Being polite has nothing to do with not having criminal tendencies either, though. People will fake nice to seem nice even after they've been caught. I have a coworker who used to work at a hospital for the criminally insane in California and there were plenty of times where people got complacent with them and someone would end up jumped and critically injured.
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#41
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If yes, why can't there be nice murderers? |
#42
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lol Fared I'm typing fast and clinic psychology isn't the wrong spelling, it's just an awkward wording that you understand regardless. You trying to check my grammatical errors is funny coming from someone who regularly posts huge chucks of rambling sentences without any sort of paragraph structure. Please get over yourself, you're not as smart as you think.
There are differences between the terms. If you actually bothered to do some research for yourself, you'd see that, but I know you'd rather pretend to be the expert of all things rather than do your own work to back up your claims. There can be "nice" murderers. They can be polite, ask you how you're doing that day, greet you and use manners, etc etc but that doesn't change the fact that they'd still fuck you up if they got the chance. They just know how to act correctly to throw people off. That goes along with the sociopathic tendencies I was talking about earlier that some people misunderstood. A sociopath will do things like that, act nice and graciously to seem like everyone else, but they are not kind people. There's a difference. Last edited by AllisonWalker; 07-21-2013 at 06:03 PM. |
#43
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I agree, those sociopath and psychopath are two totally different things. But neither of it makes people commit crimes |
#44
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Most people who eat meat are neither psychopaths nor sociopaths and most of them are nice too, even though they murder other humans by doing so, not caring about their misery. |
#45
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No, it makes people more likely too, though. It's just a situation of "can I do this and get away with it" instead of "I shouldn't do this because it's wrong and could hurt someone". Most people with anti-personality disorders and sociopaths don't act out their impulses because they are afraid of getting caught.
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Slaughtering animals doesn't really go along with what we're talking about since most people would say there's a difference between killing a human being and an animal for food. Let's not get too side tracked from the original topic at hand. Last edited by AllisonWalker; 07-21-2013 at 06:12 PM. |
#46
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Hmmm, who do I trust, a trained psychologist or the troll, AllsionWalker? Hmm, this is a tough one. Allison, if you wish to be correct about it, neither term has any real clinical definition - which is why any real psychologist would not use such terms - but both refer to vague ideas about an extreme inability to live by societies norms. This is why those who know what they are on about - aka, not internet trolls - consider both terms to refer to the same thing. Last edited by Fat1Fared; 07-21-2013 at 06:13 PM. |
#47
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Both of those things only prevent you from feeling guilty, having an instinctive urge not to harm others or feeling compassion. they don't stop your ability to think logically. |
#48
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#49
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When you have people in prison who legitimately don't care about causing other people suffering and just lack that kind capacity for feeling sympathetic towards others, it kind of makes it very difficult for a therapist or anyone else to make them safe around society at large. Hence why I said in the beginning, you can't fix everyone.No, sociopaths have no ability to feel compassion towards others. But I already said numerous times that while psychologists don't diagnosis people as being sociopaths, they do talk about having sociopathic tendencies all the time (know this from first hand experience, thank you!) and can diagnosis people as having anti-social personality disorders, which usually go hand in hand. I'm done repeating myself because of your lack of reading comprehension. Last edited by AllisonWalker; 07-21-2013 at 06:18 PM. |
#50
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I thought you knew that. usually you figure that out by using your brain and a calculator. |
#51
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Yes, meat consumption is wasteful when compared to growing crops for food, but that really has nothing to do with this discussion. Moving on... |
#52
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You don't need compassion to care about others. I don't have any compassion myself, I could cut your throat open without feeling guilty, so I speak from experience. compassion makes caring for other humans a bit more easy, but is actually unnecessary. All you need to care about other humans is the ability to think logically and sociopaths have the ability to think logically, as you said yourself. by thinking logically, you will eventually come to the conclusion, that decreasing someone else's joy a lot, for example by raping him/her, while increasing your own joy a bit, would decrease the total amount of joy in this world. |
#53
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You are not making any sense whatsoever and clearly need some therapy.
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#54
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I am not trying to convince you to stop eating meat (actually I do), but I am using this as an example. most people would continue to eat meat, even when they know the consequences. they would deliberately kill other humans in order to increase their pleasure, without any guilty conscience.does that mean most people of this world have any kind of anti-social disorder or how ever it is called?
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#55
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I need a therapy because I value other peoples happiness as high as mine?
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#56
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*lays back in a lawn chair and eats popcorn*
troll vs troll i'm loving it |
#57
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oh yeah, I'd love to watch that, too.
*lies down in the second chair* |
#58
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Want some popcorn?
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#59
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I've given up following this thread now.
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#60
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I concur. Back on topic, and try to keep things civil. It is 100% possible to make your point without talking down on another person. Thanks.
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