Rap?

[0mnislash17]

Alrighty let me get started. *turns on Method Man- Judgement Day*

Originally Posted by JSwiggz

I don't care what anybody says, if you think Eminem is the best rap has to offer then you have no right to talk about the genre PERIOD. Stick to your metal, rock, country, or whatever you listen to, and DO NOT try to dismiss rap as some kind of bastard stepchild of music. Just admit that you have no understanding, and are not trying to understand black culture, therefore, you don't like it.

Although Eminem is one of my favorite rappers, I have to agree he isn't the best rap has to offer. Also I don't think Rap is the bastard stepchild of music as it is in it's own way music. I mean sure it usually is just a beat with vocals being the main focus, but then what would you call Opera or a musical where it is all about the singing really?

Originally Posted by grimfang999

dude, i never said i hate rap, just urban rap, which incidentally is most rap sadly. there are some songs which i like which are rap and they normally the the ones which are funny and, actually going with your point here, i actually prefer whiite rappers to black rappers, not in a racist way however, just personal taste. i do understand the black culture, but that does not mean i have to like it. knowing and liking are different things, and most of the active users on this site happen to listen to the others genres out of urban.

and i agree with apple also, old rap=good new rap=not as good

and thats the sad thing with rap compared to the other genres. its all about the "new" and the out dated ones are really listened to

Well its your opinion as to which rappers you may like more or dislike more but I don't rappers should be liked based on their race. Rapping is more or less to me trying to tell a story based on one's experiences, if the flow is good and the lyrics tell you something then it should be liked. The newer rap is declining, I agree, but there are some out there who aren't as bad as the rest.

Originally Posted by JSwiggz

grimfang999:

First of all, my post was not directed at you specifically. There were numerous others here who have expressed sentiments about rap similar to yours, and I am speaking to all of you, and anyone else who my post may pertain to in the future.

However, with this, I will address you specifically. I don't care if you do or if you don't like rap music. What concerns me, not just about you, but everyone, regarding any kind of music is the why? So you only hate urban rap. First of all, what is "urban" rap, and, just because the what, say, 5-10% of rap that you do like is not "urban," you can feel good to say to me with a straight face that technically you don't "hate rap?" And you prefer white rappers to black rappers, not because of racism, but personal taste. Well, the question here is, is being a racist and personal taste mutually exclusive reasons to like a particular form of music over another, this case being white rap over black rap? Has it occurred to you that perhaps being a racist can be a driving factor for personal taste? Furthermore, you understand black culture, but you don't like it. And yes, knowing and liking are indeed different things. Well, knowing and understanding are also different things. What do you know about black culture in America, and where and how did you obtain that information? And from that knowledge, what is your personal understanding of it, or your interpretation? From your "personal taste," how would you rate these three songs, 1 being the one you would most listen to and 3 being what you would least listen to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWzlD7Lc6w8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4S-Updjn_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15L7I2ExAJY

Now I want you to know that I am making this post to you with all civility, and I am by no means accusing you of being a racist. And I am not trying to convince you that rap is good music. What I am trying to do is to get you to look within yourself and find out honestly why particular forms of music resonate with you more than others, that is what true music appreciation is to me. If you are able to do this, I believe that the music you do like will become infinitely more special to you, and perhaps realize that music that you don't prefer (rap) at least deserves just as much respect as music you do prefer. And oh, do not post a response answering the questions I asked, they are just meant for you to ask yourself.

Not much to say here as it wasn't directed towards me lol. However I would listen to the videos in order you had them posted, but put Mac Mall first. Eminem would've won it for me if the song you had chosen didn't suck so badly lol. Older Eminem was better than his newer stuff imo. Mac Mall beats Kanye even though I can't recall Mac Mall because of what his song is trying to convey to the general public. He is talking about how bad and un-unified the people in the ghetto are, and that the violence they have is pointless. It's a song trying to get them to see that, and in doing so trying to get them to have peace amongst themselves. I could be wrong but that is how I saw it.

Originally Posted by grimfang999

well i will answer anyway to make a point

first i couldnt hear two out of the three songs due to music videos being mostly blocked in my country of the united kingdom.
second i do appreciate that you are trying to be a civil as possible
third it has already lead to me like pretty much every genre aside from urban rap
forth its not actually the rapping i dont like, its actually what the lyrics may contain and are still allowed to be played on and the obsenity that metal isnt, even the metal which isnt satanic or has swearing.
fifth i dont actually have anything against blacks, just dont like their music
finally i know each genre is respected by different people, just one thing i wish with the rap community is that they should take a lesson from their rock and metal neighbours and be a bit moree united, since often "rap battles" and "dis tourniments" occur and i just find that could cause tensions

call me arrogant for answering back if you wat, its just what i am right now. im trying to brake back to what i was but its difficult

Not much to say here either, but you would be surprised how united some of the rappers can be. By that I mean during our recent election, a lot of our rappers joined together to show how they felt about Obama running and how they felt he could cause the "change" he was campaigning.

Originally Posted by JSwiggz

I don't mind you replying to me, I just meant that the questions I was asking you, were for you to ask yourself, not for you to actually respond to me publicly. But if you have something to say then by all means, speak your mind, and I don't find that arrogant whatsoever. And I can respect your reasons for not liking certain types of rap. Obscenity and vulgarity in rap simply for controversies sake is a turn off to me as well. However, some rap is obscene, vulgar, and violent, but if it's an honest reflection of that persons reality, then I believe that is something that one cannot fault the rapper for. In fact, the biggest turnoff for me from any musician/songwriter, is dishonesty, or rather, dis ingenuousness. And the rap battles and dis tournaments, I don't like those either. Not because they cause tension, but because in that context, rap is no longer an artistic expression, it is a competitive skill, like being a clever debater. And by the way, any self respecting, knowledgeable rock band will tell you, rock and metal IS black music. Do the research, the history is there.

I have a like, and a dislike for the "controversy" in rapper's raps. For Eminem, I liked it as he wasn't afraid to get the public to hate him as they had done and when they found something new to "attack" him with like proclaiming he was "gay" and whatnot, he used that fuel and brought back more fire. Some of his raps though aren't all controversy, and those ones are somewhat better than the controversial ones. I also do not like rapper's who sole thing is rap battling. This does take away a lot of the artistic value of it and turns it really into "Who can point out all the flaws the other may have and shut down his accusations before the other".

Originally Posted by grimfang999

right let me clear things up:

1. JSwiggz, while i respect you opinions, please do not multipost for your sake of avoiding getting banned
2. if you read the above conversations, you would see why i dislike rap. here are my reasons anyway:
a) i dislike how most rappers say they are gangsters, where real gangsters actually listen to jazz mostly
b) i dislike the unity of the rap community compared to the rock and metals community
c) to me its just talking in a rhythm, and sometimes it sounds quite good. but not much actual singing involved. it requires no skill unless you are rapping spontaniously from the top of your head, which sadly that skill is used in the wrong ways such as rap battles
d) behind the singer, theres no skillful band playing, they just use logic pro to create terrable keyboards sounds and unrealistic drums
e) alot of them sing about inappropriate things but still get put on commonly listened to radio stations before 9pm
f) they steal from the dance and techno genres. theres the techno song "stronger better faster" which got rappified, and recently the dance song "you spin me round (like a record baby)" was also changed into a sickly sounding urban version of it which maked me want to puke out of the car

so yeah, its not actually the rap i hate, its whats contained in the more popular rappers songs. some rap i do like, but its just in the urban genre i cant stand

3. most people on this site dont really listen to rap. if you go on the "what are you listening to now thread?" most of its rock and metal, some dance, and bits of country sometimes, but hardly ever rap.


and so there is my opinion expressed. and just to cover up in case you come back at me with "yeah but metal sings about war and the devil", even though you might not at the same time, there arn't really many devil worshipers in metal, and the songs formed about hell and the devil are done for commercialisation. most of the time metal war songs are against it, no matter how aggressive they sound. look at "scream, aim, fire" by bullet for my valantine, or "one" or "the day hat never comes" by metalicca.

ill rest there

Lol now here are some things I do have problems with. Where shall I begin?

c) to me its just talking in a rhythm, and sometimes it sounds quite good. but not much actual singing involved. it requires no skill unless you are rapping spontaniously from the top of your head, which sadly that skill is used in the wrong ways such as rap battles
d) behind the singer, theres no skillful band playing, they just use logic pro to create terrable keyboards sounds and unrealistic drums

Alrighty, Yes it is speaking in rhythm but you can't say it takes no skill because they don't do any singing. Rap is essentially poetry, which to my personal experience isn't really "sung" to. Also it being a form of poetry, it needs a certain rhythm to be spoken to, just as poetry does. If you use the wrong amount of syllables in poetry for back to back verses, it can sound utterly horrible. Yes there isn't really any band playing behind it, but you don't really need it since again, it is like poetry. Also the beats that are created by them aren't all that bad as you say they are, especially if you feel it and can vibe to it, making the rap better itself.

e) alot of them sing about inappropriate things but still get put on commonly listened to radio stations before 9pm

Well unfortunately that is what our rap has dissolved to, people talking about how they have cash, are "tough", have "hoes", and deal with drugs. I mean sure some of the older rap has that, BUT it wasn't exactly the main basis as to what the song was about.

f) they steal from the dance and techno genres. theres the techno song "stronger better faster" which got rappified, and recently the dance song "you spin me round (like a record baby)" was also changed into a sickly sounding urban version of it which maked me want to puke out of the car

Actually I like those two songs. Kanye didn't steal from Daft Punk, he was given permission to take their song and make something new out of it. In fact in the video, Daft Punk is there remaking him lol. Plus he had "Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger" going in the background for pretty much the entire song, so it still had it's Daft Punk feel to it. Also his song somewhat tells a story behind it so it made it all the more likeable for me. Spin me right round was also modified into something new by Flo Rida and I think that was done pretty well as well. I mean it was pretty much the same thing as the original in terms of what the message was, a girl making the guy's head spin due to his infatuation with her. The only song that took something from a techno/dance group was Rhianna's "Live your life" ft T.I. It took the small bit from Dragostea din tei (Miya-hee,Miya-hoo,Miya-ho,Miya-haha) and changed the concept of the song entirely. I just felt it was a total flop. Then again that can be because I don't like Rhianna lol.

Lol I think I'll leave it as that for now.

[revolvingscott]

....is short for crap, rap is not music, it's a butchered, contorted form of talking fast with a rhythm behind. As already mentioned Flo Rida butchered one of the greatest songs of the 80's, in fact greatest songs EVER and made it sexual, Pete Burns must be spinning in his bed! It cannot be music as music requires notes, instruments etc. rap doesn't, rap requires the ability to talk at a reasonably fast pace which I could do, now all I need to do is talk about "hos", "ganstas" and being rich and I could be a star, please, if you listen to rap, convert to real music.

[0mnislash17]

Originally Posted by revolvingscott

....is short for crap, rap is not music, it's a butchered, contorted form of talking fast with a rhythm behind. As already mentioned Flo Rida butchered one of the greatest songs of the 80's, in fact greatest songs EVER and made it sexual, Pete Burns must be spinning in his bed! It cannot be music as music requires notes, instruments etc. rap doesn't, rap requires the ability to talk at a reasonably fast pace which I could do, now all I need to do is talk about "hos", "ganstas" and being rich and I could be a star, please, if you listen to rap, convert to real music.

Ehh, that's a pretty unfair accusation there buddy. It's not a butchered, contorted form of talking fast with a rhythm behind it. Matter of fact, most rappers don't rap "Fast" as you say. Rappers like Twista, Krayzie Bone and Busta Rhymes (Somewhat)... they rap fast.
Also I'm pretty sure your cherished original version of "Spin me right round" has a sexual message behind it.
Also you state that music has to have notes, well I'm pretty sure when you make a beat to something that counts as a note, and instruments from a keyboard can sound right if done right which in most cases they are.
Then there you go again with the "Fast Talking" again. It's not all about being able to talk in time to the beat to keep rhythm, but it also is rhyming creatively and using such to send a message to the listener. We've all already said that the newer rap artist's raps have less luster than the older BECAUSE they do rap about such things instead of conveying a message to the public.
Umm, your last statement was just as bad as some deranged preachers out there. No offense to those who are religious, but I've run across a couple "opressive" religious people who would force it upon you if they can and it's not pretty lol. My point is don't go telling people what and what not to listen to. It's not your call.

[grimfang999]

ok then i was wrong about the rapping part as being talking fast to a tuneless rhythm then, bit the contents is still disapproving of my mind

and as for the bit which people keep commenting on:

i do understand the black culture, but that does not mean i have to like it.

that was an typo, what i meant to say was

i do understand the black culture, but that does not mean i have to like their music.

and really im not actually sure why i dont like black rap but prefer white rap. even before i knew the concept of racism i never actually liked listening to rap, so dont take it in a racist way. i dont actually mind rap if it songs reasonable and doesnt have a clear inappropriate message behind it. that one linked about being into the mind of a young black man, while i couldnt really understand many of the lyrics (no offense) i could make a guess it is about it is the fear of discrimination and rejection he may recieve for being black, as well as possable peer pressure he may recieve.

as for those 3 songs you listed, i could only here one since two were not availiable in this country.

and as for the point about how rappers are actually quite unified, i was actually more thinking towards the fans, not the actual rappers themselves. i mean like i say, with these rap battles and cussing contests its not very good for making friends wit others.

and then when revolving scott said what he just said, while a agree with him in some of his points, i also disagree with his approach, since im in a fairly soberish mood right now, even though i dont actually drink or anything. scott let them listen to rap if they want, personally i think they are running out of things to sing about anyway im afraid, no offense again guys

ill leave it there, with eminems song "lose yourself to the music" going round my head quite ironicly

[grimfang999]

no, there is a general specific reason for it:

alot of the people on this site are/were the outcasts in school. most teenagers and children today listen to rap, and those who differ are rejected. we normally flee to the internet, a place where we can speak our feeling anonymously and have more chance of finding people who share the same view.

basicly, rap is the major popular catagory in reality, and the other people mwho have been discriminated for not liing it and listen to something else retreat to the internet. LK was also a reject in school im assuming, and so other people with similar experience to him, unwittingly or not, flock to him. like i just said, however, rap is the main catagory, and because we are rejected by people who listen to rap, we tend to develop a hatred for those people, and it soon spreads to the whole catagory due to those people. overall you cant really blame us, but the people who brought us to this

[grimfang999]

well then you understand hoe we all feel, and its odd to see my theory correct, well im glad that barriers down for you

[0mnislash17]

*Nods in agreement with eyes closed and hand on chin (how they usually do it in anime lol)*

[musicfreak9000]

the great to me, but the thing is you have to look underground, rap an't a style that can go mainsteam and still be good, check out ill bill, narsicist, atma, immortal technique, atmoshpere, eyeda (aka one of the best freestyle rappers in the world), plan b, v double o, example, the wu-tang, nas and grand master flash

[grimfang999]

true, which is why people do that this hate towards rap, i have to admit, some rap is nice, it's the mainstream i can't stand, and i agree, it should never have gone mainstream

[musicfreak9000]

rap never did! real rap/hip-hop will ALWAYS be underground, why? because when ANY artist goes mainsteam the lyrics are dumb down for the massise, i mean just look at lil wayne, he USED it be decent but then came lilpop, now he's a sellout, green day are another good example, listen to brat, 16, sacatted, 80, andriod etc thats the REAL green day

[grimfang999]

green day used to be rap? but they are punk...

well sadly it is annoyingly, with teenagers anyway, im one of the few who listens to rock and metal, and a few other genres

well, mainstream rap is bad, thats just what i mean, real rap will stay underground

[musicfreak9000]

i was giving green day as an example of music that had better lyrics when the artist was underground, and they were never punk, the were 90s grunge, emo, alternative and rock. i should know im a huge fan of the old music.

im the same, most of the kids i know wont STFU about it, "turning the emo shit off", its metal not bisexaul romance, toki hotel or painc at the hair salong, i hate most emo music (other than blackfeild, atmoshpere and green day) and how is metallica emo??? if you said that at at a metallica concert the fan would kill you

[grimfang999]

indeed, i mean, their music is not about "oh i want to die", i would actually say green day is more punk than emo, they have that edge to their music which has punk sounds to it. it is really frustrating how people say metal is emo. machine head are not about dying, they are about peace, a fair amount of time. evanescence is mostly about love, but performed in a slightly gothic sounding way. there is nothing in rock or metal which even remotely connects to emo, aside from a song here and there.

but thats the thing about rap, hip-hop and R&B. a great deal of the mainstream songs are unnessessary. example is that recent hit "make love in this club" is a typical urban song of inappropriate content which is played on most radio stations aside from ones focused on specific genres

[musicfreak9000]

metal and rap an't even my fav gerne of music, prog/art rock at the momment is fav, i like dreamer threater, porupine tree, the creation, lesbian, tranquail dream etc. no one at my school has even heard of prog music (there are no mainstam prog band, singles yes, bands no) mostly because prog songs are long, dream theater songs are usaully 8 - 10 min long, porupine tree songs are 6 - 9 and lesbians shortiest song is 8 min long. so most kids dont have an attention spane long enough to listen to there songs

[grimfang999]

i understand your point, i guess thats because rap songs are never more than four mins. personally im not too much of a fan of dream theater, but i like long songs, like dragonforce and nightwish epics. i think the reason why i find dream theater a little dull is that their songs are a bit calm, but yet again i have only heard pull me under. well im going to the download festical and they are playing there, might see what they have to offer

[musicfreak9000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slTePgT-QbY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GTFN...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy5ci...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy5m8...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUTjx...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuaHe...eature=related

there harder stuff

some underground rap songs can be aslong as 9 mins long, like dance with the devil by immortal technique, its called story telling rap

[grimfang999]

yeah just sampled a few of them briefly, i understand, i dont understand why on the download dfestival it says pull me under is their most popular song, its slow and boring


yeah, i wasnt really talking about underground rap, i meant regular rap, the crap rap

[M.P.]

You want lyrics...Slaughterhouse is one of the ones that definitely got it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbPDv6xLKhY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXGAO...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHgUF...eature=related

[Ohara]

Emo music is Hawthorne Heights.
Ugh. -_-;;

[RipMyHeartInTwo]

Um, I don't listen to rap all that much really but, I like some rap songs.
I'm more into Rock. I listen to like 80's rock bands and Japanese rock bands. Listen to some pop once in a while.

[YGOTAS_Rox]

I like rap when it's good. MC Chris and ShadyVox do well rapping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uILUC...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9iy9hnbnmo&feature=fvwk

Anybody recognize the 1st? If you saw the Deleted Scenes you should!
{[You really should recognize the 2nd one...] Just so you know, if you don't like it, you never should have clicked it...}