Human Sexuality

[FluffyPillow]

This conversation...I mean dispute is really entertaining. And before some grammer nazis say something, English isn't my mother tongue.

Also this:
I waited with sex till I was of age (18). I had my first sex with my boyfriend (It was the first time for him, too), with whom I'm still together (5 years now). We're really happy with our relationship and one day I want to marry him, perhaps with 30.
My parents are divorced and I'm still alive. I'm a very sucessfull student and have a sidejob to pay my rent.

So, am I the exception? Or do you just generalize?

I know a lot of these girls you discribed so far, but I would never arrogate to say that everybody who enjoys sex or has sex in a younger age is rotten to the bone.

[Fat1Fared]

Originally Posted by FluffyPillow

This conversation...I mean dispute is really entertaining. And before some grammer nazis say something, English isn't my mother tongue.

Also this:
I waited with sex till I was of age (18). I had my first sex with my boyfriend (It was the first time for him, too), with whom I'm still together (5 years now). We're really happy with our relationship and one day I want to marry him, perhaps with 30.
My parents are divorced and I'm still alive. I'm a very sucessfull student and have a sidejob to pay my rent.

So, am I the exception? Or do you just generalize?

I know a lot of these girls you discribed so far, but I would never arrogate to say that everybody who enjoys sex or has sex in a younger age is rotten to the bone.

Seriously...thank you...thank you for showing that a woman can enjoy sex outside marriage and still be a happy and productive person. :)

[FluffyPillow]

You're welcome. And I totally share your oppinion.

[Fat1Fared]

Yer, I think the reason i have been even more up myself than usual in this thread, is because certain users have basically called my sister, my girlfriend and all my friends whores and trainwrecks, which I find very incensing when consider that these people are:
-psychologists;
-a professional pianist and economist at the sametime;
-a masters holder in Business and in line to take over a large clothing line;
-a graphic designer;
-an intern in the UN;
-teachers;
-a girl whom is fluent in both Chinese and English, working as teacher and translator;
-officer workers;
-lawyers;

....etc To name a few and this is just their professional successes; socially they are happy and productive people whom have been liberal in their morals, but still found their current partner, whom in happy relationships with, that believe/hope continue onto the far future. Even some of those whom have shown the dignity and respect not to actively disown this ladies as people, have shown a general dismissive tenancy toward their lives, ether claiming they are just flukes or don't really exist...as if the idea of another style of living being acceptable as the noun is actually simply unacceptable and the real world means all whom dissent their noun are doomed to a damned life.

As I have said from the start, I think that for me, for the reasons given, I don't believe that liberal beliefs to sex are bad thing and can in fact be quite a good thing with positive results, but I have at least tried to show that I honestly believe this is an area, where basically one for choose the best path for themselves and their partner.
-I have said what I believe can be the problems with not having sex before marriage and why think can be considered a bad thing, yes, but never demised this as a simply doomed path. I know of many successful conservative people in this area and realise that some of happiest marriages are founded on conservative beliefs; look at tyler and sally's families, they seem very content.
=To me, this debate was more about validating liberal sex, than invalidating conservative sex. I show the ills of conversative sex, not to completely dismiss it as ideal, but to show why liberal sex is equally valid on a social level and why it was the path I picked for myself and I also apologise for letting my argument with allison cloud this point .

[AllisonWalker]

It would be different if people could actually be responsible with their sexuality. But for whatever reason, young people can't seem to handle something as simple as free birth control, which is why I get to see single moms with kids and pregnant women all day. There are so many better things these people could be doing with themselves (and their sexuality) that wouldn't lead to their situations now, but that's what happens when you have immature kids who think they can handle sex. They get pregnant, or an Std, or whatever nasty surprise we get to see everyday, and get stuck with it for the rest of their lives.

If you can handle that burden, then go ahead and do what you want to do. But if you know you can't (emotionally, financially, mentally, etc), you aren't ready. And most people under twenty-one just aren't there.

And girls aren't slutty whores for enjoying sex. But if they're going through it without taking precautions or can't afford the consequences of their actions, then quitw frankly, they're stupid. Common sense is just something not enough people have anymore.

[HolyShadow]

You really shouldn't assume everyone who has sex before 21 is automatically stupid.

I find it interesting that you set it at 21, as well. Is it just coincidence that you HAPPEN to be 21, and set the cutoff age at 21? Making exceptions for yourself, are we?

I must say that you shouldn't have a child. I don't think you'd be a very good parent as it is.

[AllisonWalker]

Originally Posted by HolyShadow

You really shouldn't assume everyone who has sex before 21 is automatically stupid.

I find it interesting that you set it at 21, as well. Is it just coincidence that you HAPPEN to be 21, and set the cutoff age at 21? Making exceptions for yourself, are we?

I must say that you shouldn't have a child. I don't think you'd be a very good parent as it is.

Where did I say that?


By the time you hit twenty-one, most people aren't living under their parents anymore. It has nothing to do with my own age, besides the fact that I'm perfectly able to financially care for myself.

[HolyShadow]

If you can handle that burden, then go ahead and do what you want to do. But if you know you can't (emotionally, financially, mentally, etc), you aren't ready. And most people under twenty-one just aren't there.

Right here.

[AllisonWalker]

Originally Posted by HolyShadow

Right here.

Funny, the word stupid is no where in that paragraph.

[HolyShadow]

Originally Posted by AllisonWalker

Funny, the word stupid is no where in that paragraph.

Originally Posted by AllisonWalker

And girls aren't slutty whores for enjoying sex. But if they're going through it without taking precautions or can't afford the consequences of their actions, then quitw frankly, they're stupid. Common sense is just something not enough people have anymore.

You're implying, at least, that most people don't have common sense, and thus, they're stupid. This is looking down on people, and when it's only one paragraph away from you railing on people younger than you, it's easy to put two and two together.

You obviously think you're superior to people younger than you.

Robot-Tashigi.

[AllisonWalker]

Originally Posted by HolyShadow

You're implying, at least, that most people don't have common sense, and thus, they're stupid. This is looking down on people, and when it's only one paragraph away from you railing on people younger than you, it's easy to put two and two together.

You obviously think you're superior to people younger than you.

Robot-Tashigi.

Being young doesn't make you stupid. But making unwise decisions because something "feels good" without putting any thought to the consequences does.

[HolyShadow]

Originally Posted by AllisonWalker

Being young doesn't make you stupid. But making unwise decisions because something "feels good" without putting any thought to the consequences does.

Action: Joining the military.
Boon: Makes you feel more mature. Thus, 'feels good'.
Consequence: Makes you into a robot.

So... are you saying you're a bit dull?

[polycumulus]

So...I wasn’t going to jump back into this argument since I tend to be rather non-confrontational, but having read through all of it, I’ve got a few comments and a question.

First of all, attacking others age seems moot when everyone seems comfortable talking about the topic of sexuality, whatever their opinions might be. And since the internet is impersonal and there’s no really good way to judge the given age of someone, it may be a good idea to not make assumptions about anything or jump to any conclusions about anyone else’s experience based on, or not based on how old someone might be (after all, someone who’s 16 may have had a far more experiential childhood than an adult who’s 50).

Now then, with that in mind, I’ve met some 18 year olds who have had far more emotional maturity and far more willingness to communicate with their respective potential partners than individuals that are already married, but because of some circumstances or another, they couldn’t get married (family, school, other reasons). But, because they were in a committed monogamous relationship, they either had sex or there was some other form of sexual intimacy between them (which obviously doesn’t eliminate all risks). I wouldn’t think that these individuals are “loose” or leading any manner of doomed life...just outside the norm.

Speaking of outside the norm, what about individuals that are unsure about their sexuality? I’ve met some people who have determined their sexuality after experimentation. Or who have determined what their sexuality ISN’T. And some of those individuals (at this point), can’t get married (which is a whole ‘nother can of worms), and don’t necessarily have the risk of having children. I still think even there it comes down to the amount of communication between the people involved.

[Jotenks]

The whole point of mentioning ones age puts into perspective how much one MAY know. Of course there are exceptions, but using your example, most of the time a 50 year old person is gonna know what they're talking about more than someone who's 16.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

ok, ignoring holy's s and m, he actually brings up a point which sadly sally you cannot rebut with simple line of communication...talking as one of the probably more experienced people here, I can tell you it is very easy to find a sexually imcompatiable partner and this is not just some fetish thing or the other side, not being very good, it can go to the core of a persons psychie.

To people may simply be imcompatiable on so many physically possible levels that it is impossible to list them. Tyler is right, one should not over generalise this area as is very easy to sexually compatible partners and most problems are down to lack of experience/skill, which can be overcome with more sex and varying ones sex life.

However that doesn't override that this is a real and serious problem for some people, which exists whether one believes in the marriage thing or not. I like to have what would be considered more errr...tender and soft sex; I once dated a girl, whom liked it a lot more aggressive, niether of us found the sex that pleasure as both trying to pull in the opposite direction and so that was that. The problem is, sex is not a really conscious act and so often these compatibility problems are something just unlearn and no amount of communication can change what two people like, if they like different things to that level.

-Holy making bringing up an extreme example with S and M, but the point behind that, is a valid one...if you simply like different ways of having sex, sex won't be good for 1 or possibly both partners and this is a problem.

PS on another point...devoice is not some byproduct of the modern and people not thinking things through, it has actually been proven we get married much later in life now and after far longer relationships. Devoice didn't occur before, not because didn't want it too, but because we couldn't. Now devoice is possible, we take it as would have done previously, if we could.

I have a question for you, then. If neither partner has ever had sex before, would they really know what they are looking for in sexual compatibility? And is it possible that their ignorance would actually help them strengthen their bond with one another?

It's just that I know dozens of couples who waited to have sex until after their wedding ceremony and are very happy with their marriages, whether they've lasted for a year or 50 years. So from my experience, I fail to see how not having sex before marriage will essentially guarantee getting yourself into a sexually incompatible marriage.

Also I know that divorce is happening because it is socially OK now. Way back when, it was socially frowned upon to leave a marriage, even a dangerous or irreconcilable one. I think it is good for divorce to be acceptable for these circumstances, but there are ways to avoid it. Most of those ways have to do with actually getting to know someone very well before trusting them with your whole heart and therefore getting into a blind commitment with them, and acting like an adult when things get tough.

I do, however, see where Allison is getting at when she says that many, many people don't think about the consequences of their sexual actions before going through with them. There are people who are smart, and while I don't agree with your moral choices, I respect the fact that you aren't acting like a moron and that you are thinking about your actions and how they will affect your life. But those people are few and far between, and people should be encouraged to wait until they have a committed relationship with each other. Our sexuality is an integral part of who we are as human beings, and it's not something that you should just give to strangers.

[HolyShadow]

Originally Posted by MrsSallyBakura

It's just that I know dozens of couples who waited to have sex until after their wedding ceremony and are very happy with their marriages, whether they've lasted for a year or 50 years. So from my experience, I fail to see how not having sex before marriage will essentially guarantee getting yourself into a sexually incompatible marriage.

You won't know what you're missing if you never have an orgasm, after all.

Our sexuality is an integral part of who we are as human beings, and it's not something that you should just give to strangers.

People are limited by their collected information. Then, by what measure can you define someone as a stranger?

[Fat1Fared]

Sally=first please don't make my point to be polarised when it isn't...i have already stated previously and in this comment that I agree with tyler that this is not a certainty, nothing here is a certainty; just a known problem.

=Secondly, just because people seem happy and married doesn't mean they are. I am not saying this applies or disapplies to anyone you may or may not know; just to be careful with your views of marriage as when live in a very catholic world, sometimes people make choices which will surprise even you. Heck my parents weren't even church religious and still went 14 years pretending to be happy to the outside world.

=Third, Sally while luckily Allison's polarised rants have made any comment seem reasonable in comparison, that is still bull. I have travelled the world and met people from all walks of life and hope to meet people in others too. Most are actually very smart and reasonable people, whatever their morals and know why i know this is truth to me, because what I have discovered in my limited scope of reality is that if people like you, whom agree with the Daily Mails view that the world is doomed and everyone who isn't a good, god fearing soul, living the perfect conservative lifestyle is bringing upon the end is right. Then by god we're doing a bad job of it, because 99.99999999999999 of people don't live that lifestyle and guess what, there is still a world outside my door and believe or not, despite the crazy politic's and extremes examples which plague it [ these examples are clearly not applicable to this conversation because problems so extreme and in societies so different to our own, that need own set of beliefs to be dealt because as Sen said, there is no 1 size fits all solvation to life ]it is still a functional one, barely sometimes, but barely is a form of working and it is lot more functional than the 1 of even 50 years ago, which was lot closer to the Mails idea of good. PS I know your not quite that polarised, but you need to be less condescending to the world and find out that those whom are dysfunctional to you actually general still live functional lives and if you and other religious folk don't do that, then going to keep dying out, because one of the things that isolates you from mainstream world is your complete faith in the idea that the world outside your own is collapsing that is caused by misconceptions like this.

But those people are few and far between,

-Ouch to the 99.9999999% of people you just insulted; especially when it is proven wrong. IE people put a lot more thought into marriage now than ever did in the past, people are no longer married off at 16 and though the hippy age has past it has left us with an age where people look for what actually want from marriage very deeply and it is because of that they sometimes decide devoice is a better option. Devoice is not a bad thing, if people are not happy together why should force them to stay together and make them suffer, that is cruel to them and even crueller to their family whom will suffer. Do not get me wrong, I think there are good and bad reasons to get devoice, but it is not my place to judge them for anothers' marriage. IE Getting a devoice because like different ice-cream is very dumb to me, but then I think if that reason getting devoiced there are probably far deeper concerns to your life and marriage that I don't know about, so sure get devoice for that reason...why hold onto this 1 perfect partner for life ideal when so clearly doesn't work 90% of the time. When does work, great, good for those people, they have my full support and are an ideal which is nice to see, but this is isn't some polarised, they are success, everyone else is a failure. This is life sally, it is not that simple or black and white, there is a lot of grey in the middle which must given a fair respect too.

=As for you question; due to your lack of experience I will answer fairly and honestly as sex sucks enough without douches lying about it:-[ "I admit I was at first going to be a douche and answer with the line Just sit back and think of England my dear." and let you work out the rest for yourself, but decided that mean. :D ]

1=My point was not about the levels of sex and how good can be, but about outright bad sex and trust me you don't need to be smart to know if sex is good or bad; if your like me and want your partner to enjoy the experience too, then this applies even there. Sally as a rule of thumb, if your able to still think about these things while having sex and not screaming in mindless joy, it is probably somewhere between bad and barely passage.
-However this doesn't mean your imcompatiable, this may just mean both still inexperienced and not yet got the hang of how the others body works.

-=And this is what I meant in my previous comment, the varying degrees of sex may mean someone who has had lot of sex knows how good their partner ranks, but isn't my point here and is in fact I whole other affair entirely. My point is when two people simply don't match then there is a problem which cannot be fixed and this doesn't matter whether experienced, inexperienced (As I said, you don't need to think hard to know if sex is good or bad...the fact your able to ask yourself the question is always a good start to answering it) or normal, abnormal...etc As Tyler said to overgeneralise is unfair and 99% of time problems with sex, if any exist, can be bypassed but in that 1%, there is a blackhole. Look at it like my ice-cream problem, only in an area which is extreme and matters...if you only like ice-cream with chocolate on top and partners doesn't like chocolate, cannot share that ice-cream together.

So in answer to your question, no ignorance is not going to be bliss.

PS Before anyone says it, I know ice-cream is stupid example, that is the point.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

Originally Posted by ClumsyCake

Or old, either way. i don't think anyone want's to think their sweet ole grandma is getting freaky in the bed with her kinky self.

been gone a week replying now.

actually, I know a Grandmother in her 70s who's greatest desire is to spend her golden years getting laid as much as possible.

[Jotenks]

Originally Posted by gcar90

been gone a week replying now.

actually, I know a Grandmother in her 70s who's greatest desire is to spend her golden years getting laid as much as possible.

I don't care how relevant to the topic that is. I don't want to hear about old people sex.

[Fat1Fared]

wait...holy brings up s and m without complaint, but old people is a no-no lol

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

actually, after reading this thread and catching up on the discussion why shouldn't dear sweet nana have sex? She is human and subject to the same wants and desires as women in their 20s. She's most likely well past menopause and therefore, with the exception of that one old lady that had the in vitro to conceive, most likely WON'T be having a bunch of kids to wind up on welfare and wasting taxpayer money on useless crap like diapers, food, shelter, clothes, and stuff like that. Grandma is probably the most mature person to be able to handle things like sex.

PS, Please excuse the pun in the last line, it was unintentional but still applicable.

Edit: Also keep in mind that Nana is a legal consenting adult and is more than welcome to have sex if she wants to.

[HolyShadow]

It's unhealthy for older people because it's a large source of exercise and their lack of huge amounts of hormones. This means it'll take longer, and they'll expend more energy. They might get a heart attack.

And if that bullshit wasn't enough to fool you, I just don't think about old people sex because I'm not an old person and thus don't like old people sex. Hell, I probably won't even live that long if my family history is any indication.

[Jotenks]

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

wait...holy brings up s and m without complaint, but old people is a no-no lol

Holy said too much and people got sick of it. Besides I don't like to think about old people sex. I don't care if they do or not, but I don't want to think about it. Why you ask? Well it's old people. And they are having sex. And they are old. And wrinkly. And old. And more old. And so old they are gathering dust.

The End.

[bakurachick]

Had this thought after lurking in this thread. When should people stop having sex? When the woman has gone through menopause or before that?

Baku out.

[HolyShadow]

The best way to die is to die having sex, so never.

[Bakura136]

I personally feel too insecure about my body and are generally too shy to really want to engage in it yet. (wow, a fifteen year old male that isn't crazed about sex) I have many reasons to not wanting to yet, some involve my girlfriend already engaging in sexual activity with older more experienced guys and therefore making her pressuring me into doing so which really just makes me want to do it less. Sometimes I think about how we might break up and with all the things I've done for her that she doesn't even recall, perhaps if I were to lose my virginity she'll just forget that too. I have many reasons but that doesn't mean I oppose others from doing so. The majority of people my age have already done it multiple times many years ago but I feel I don't have the mental capacity to want it for reasons other than love. If I were to do it, I would like to do it with only one person, a person I know I'll be with until the end. And of course, a thought like that is really innocent, and so it should be. I'm only fifteen and I don't want to lose my innocence just yet, even if the legal age here is sixteen.

What I'm trying to say is, some people throw everything away and grow up as fast as they can. And in some instances, I have done that too. But I'm not saying that they shouldn't. If a person feels they are ready to be sexually active, then that's probably a sign that they are.

[FluffyPillow]

^ I totally agree to this, and to cheer you up, I wouldn't say that it's impossible for you to have only one sex partner. I believe in that myself and it works very well for the last 5 years.
And being ready for sex has nothing to do with the age, it's as Bakura136 said more about feeling to be ready.

[Fat1Fared]

Gcar-I honestly don't think anyone can argue with that (though sure will) and following virgin anonymous's rules old people are indeed the most suited to sex. There arguments against it are now making me certain that they just make this up as they go along.

Cloud-no one here is going to tell you to just lose it or that you are wrong to want an innocent, romanised ideal, just don't be too destroyed when the ideal becomes reality. No girl is perfect and so no ideal relationship exists; in fact many relationships end because one or more partners try to force their partner/partners to be perfect and this only going to end badly.
=As for your current girlfriend, don't worry about the previous guys, sex isn't a competition unless you make it one and having an experienced partner is a good thing for an inexperienced guy...however if you really don't think this girl is someone you want to have sex with, don't!
=Sex is not meant to be a burden, it is meant to be a great experience and too many members of virgins anonymous's forget that. If this girl isn't making you want to start making dirty towels, then maybe she isn't someone you really want to have sex with, emotionally or physically and as such, if you force yourself to have sex with her, the sex probably won't be a good experience for you and will only make later relationships worse due to you worrying about previous bad experiences...etc. The problem for guys having uncertain sex is that we start to think about things more clearly and well in sex that is never good thing as for a guy to have good sex, he needs to rather single minded about the whole thing. :P
=Of course take my advise with pinch of salt as I do not know, your partner nor your relationship, so I maybe wrong.

[GcarOatmealRaisinCookies]

not to be rude or mean, but is it me or is Fared and a few others starting to think about old people a little differently after my posts?

anyways, IMHO I think the age range for sex should be confined between the ages of 18 - death. Nothing against those under the age of 18, however, I think once you are a legal adult and are allowed to make your own decisions regarding what you want to do with your life, that's when you should factor in where you want sex to play it's part. Sex is only a small part of adulthood, other parts include Getting a job, moving out of your parents' basement, and getting/having a life.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Well I'm back, soo... I guess I'll say something.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=Secondly, just because people seem happy and married doesn't mean they are. I am not saying this applies or disapplies to anyone you may or may not know; just to be careful with your views of marriage as when live in a very catholic world, sometimes people make choices which will surprise even you. Heck my parents weren't even church religious and still went 14 years pretending to be happy to the outside world.

I understand that not everything is as it seems. People pretend to be happy all the time. But people are also legitimately happy. I trust that the people around me are being honest. I know that you aren't actually judging the people in my life whom you do not know, but you also assume that my belief in Catholicism has somehow blinded me from the reality of this world. There's pretty much nothing I can do to convince you otherwise, but I still want to say that I am not blind to reality, and that I do believe that there is gray area.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=Third, Sally while luckily Allison's polarised rants have made any comment seem reasonable in comparison, that is still bull. I have travelled the world and met people from all walks of life and hope to meet people in others too. Most are actually very smart and reasonable people, whatever their morals and know why i know this is truth to me,

I have met many different kinds of people too, in college, at work, growing up, on the Internet, etc. I agree that most people are at least relatively intelligent.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

because what I have discovered in my limited scope of reality is that if people like you, whom agree with the Daily Mails view that the world is doomed and everyone who isn't a good, god fearing soul, living the perfect conservative lifestyle is bringing upon the end is right.

When have I ever said that I believe that the world is doomed? When have I ever said any of this kind of stuff?

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

Then by god we're doing a bad job of it, because 99.99999999999999 of people don't live that lifestyle and guess what, there is still a world outside my door and believe or not, despite the crazy politic's and extremes examples which plague it [ these examples are clearly not applicable to this conversation because problems so extreme and in societies so different to our own, that need own set of beliefs to be dealt because as Sen said, there is no 1 size fits all solvation to life ]

You're throwing around random percentages. Yes there are many, many people who don't believe in orthodox Christianity, but there are many more that do than you think. But that's beside the point.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

it is still a functional one, barely sometimes, but barely is a form of working and it is lot more functional than the 1 of even 50 years ago, which was lot closer to the Mails idea of good. PS I know your not quite that polarised, but you need to be less condescending to the world and find out that those whom are dysfunctional to you actually general still live functional lives and if you and other religious folk don't do that, then going to keep dying out, because one of the things that isolates you from mainstream world is your complete faith in the idea that the world outside your own is collapsing that is caused by misconceptions like this.

I have never said that people who commit sexual sins become dysfunctional. Everybody sins. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody does something that someone else may think is wrong. The vast majority of people remain functional.

And again, I don't believe that the world is doomed. I don't believe that society is "collapsing," per say. I only believe that from a purely moral standpoint, the mainstream is diversing from orthodox Christian beliefs. We believe that this is hurting people, but not collapsing them within a purely worldly standard. The world will not end if people are acting immorally.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

-Ouch to the 99.9999999% of people you just insulted; especially when it is proven wrong. IE people put a lot more thought into marriage now than ever did in the past, people are no longer married off at 16 and though the hippy age has past it has left us with an age where people look for what actually want from marriage very deeply and it is because of that they sometimes decide devoice is a better option. Devoice is not a bad thing, if people are not happy together why should force them to stay together and make them suffer, that is cruel to them and even crueller to their family whom will suffer.

I wasn't talking about marriage. I was talking about people having sex with people when:
a. They could get pregnant
b. They could get an STD
c. They could be heartbroken after realizing that they had sex with someone who they couldn't trust in the end.

These are not guaranteed consequences to having premature sex, but the fact that they're there should make people at least a little more cautious.

By the "few and far between" comment, I meant specifically people who have sex before they can commit to a mature marriage and make it work out in the end. People have all kinds of reason to have sex with someone they don't know, or have sex with someone they have become so infatuated with that they fail to see their faults, and some of those people are actually quite intelligent. But... sometimes smart people can make unreasonable decisions. This isn't to insult their entire intelligence, but rather highlight the fact that these people are still human and don't always make the best decisions.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

Do not get me wrong, I think there are good and bad reasons to get devoice, but it is not my place to judge them for anothers' marriage. IE Getting a devoice because like different ice-cream is very dumb to me, but then I think if that reason getting devoiced there are probably far deeper concerns to your life and marriage that I don't know about, so sure get devoice for that reason...why hold onto this 1 perfect partner for life ideal when so clearly doesn't work 90% of the time. When does work, great, good for those people, they have my full support and are an ideal which is nice to see, but this is isn't some polarised, they are success, everyone else is a failure. This is life sally, it is not that simple or black and white, there is a lot of grey in the middle which must given a fair respect too.

Um, dude, you completely ignored the third paragraph of my post. I said a lot of the same thing that you just said.

I can only half-agree with your "1 perfect partner for life ideal" comment. On the one hand, pressuring yourself into finding "the one" is a rather unhealthy approach to relationships because it puts a lot of pressure not only on yourself but on the other person. To idealize a person so much as to believe that someone is "perfect" for them is too much to expect from another human being, who simply isn't perfect. It is impossible for another human being to meet your ideals. It's making a god into someone who is not.

But there is another extreme that I am not a fan of, and that's believing that it's impossible to "tie yourself down to one person for life." It's hard to stay with one person for life, but it is possible. It's something that takes selflessness and fidelity. People who are raised to believe that they can have what they want whenever they want without consequence (Christian and non-Christian alike) may be less likely to adhere to those qualities.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=As for you question; due to your lack of experience I will answer fairly and honestly as sex sucks enough without douches lying about it:-[ "I admit I was at first going to be a douche and answer with the line Just sit back and think of England my dear." and let you work out the rest for yourself, but decided that mean. :D ]

1=My point was not about the levels of sex and how good can be, but about outright bad sex and trust me you don't need to be smart to know if sex is good or bad; if your like me and want your partner to enjoy the experience too, then this applies even there. Sally as a rule of thumb, if your able to still think about these things while having sex and not screaming in mindless joy, it is probably somewhere between bad and barely passage.
-However this doesn't mean your imcompatiable, this may just mean both still inexperienced and not yet got the hang of how the others body works.

-=And this is what I meant in my previous comment, the varying degrees of sex may mean someone who has had lot of sex knows how good their partner ranks, but isn't my point here and is in fact I whole other affair entirely. My point is when two people simply don't match then there is a problem which cannot be fixed and this doesn't matter whether experienced, inexperienced (As I said, you don't need to think hard to know if sex is good or bad...the fact your able to ask yourself the question is always a good start to answering it) or normal, abnormal...etc As Tyler said to overgeneralise is unfair and 99% of time problems with sex, if any exist, can be bypassed but in that 1%, there is a blackhole. Look at it like my ice-cream problem, only in an area which is extreme and matters...if you only like ice-cream with chocolate on top and partners doesn't like chocolate, cannot share that ice-cream together.

So in answer to your question, no ignorance is not going to be bliss.

PS Before anyone says it, I know ice-cream is stupid example, that is the point.

Finally, an answer to my initial question, lol.

Hmmmm maybe I'll ask this question to a few other people I know. I like getting a lot of answers to the same question. :)