Gay Marriage

[agrajagthetesty]

I guess not, especially seeing as I've bumped into you on a couple of threads now, and we always seem to agree with each other.

[Nina]

Yep. TLM agree-age means serious business. xD

[agrajagthetesty]

Absolutely. That plus gay marriage agree-age equals an engagement, obiously.

[Someguy]

Same sex marriage is not a big deal. If a church wants to get rid of it, they can do so in the confines of their religion. Religions should have no power over ANYTHING, in my opinion, outside of their establishments. If a gay couple can find a church/religion that recognizes them, they should join it and be done with it. And if anyone wants to argue that it's "not in God's will', then too bad! God gave all humanity FREE WILL...and if God is what people say, which is an ALL KNOWING being, he would have seen this coming and annihilated the capability to BE gay in the first place.

[DarkWarrior]

Free will does not mean one should endorse any action. That's bad logic.

[Someguy]

Free will means you have the ability to do whatever you want, within reason. God gave us the capability to be gay, argue with that.

[Feball3001]

Free will means you have the ability to do whatever you want, within reason.

Just because God gave us free will does mean that we should do it and it does not make it right either.

God gave us the capability to be gay, argue with that.

It is possible that it is the devils influence is pointing certain people to being gay. Just because God allows people to be gay does not necessarily mean that it is right.

[agrajagthetesty]

But just because you and some other people take "God's word" to be the only rules worth following, it does not mean that the rest of us have to. The Bible is not the law, and the law is not the Bible. Nor should it be, least of all because the Bible is full of contradictions anyway.

[atemssoulmate]

just look at what happens when you make religious writings the law - Taliban Afghanistan

[agrajagthetesty]

Well, I wasn't going to bring that up, but you said exactly what I was thinking.

[Someguy]

It is possible that it is the devils influence is pointing certain people to being gay. Just because God allows people to be gay does not necessarily mean that it is right.

Right, your going to use the "the devil made them do it" speech. If what your saying is true, then God is not as powerful as people think. Also, if God, as I have ALREADY STATED, was truly as all knowing as people say, He would have annihilated the CAPABILITY to be gay, thus avoiding the whole problem. If Satan is powerful enough to affect that many humans on so grand a scale, AND reprogram how God created humans, then Satan is more powerful than we currently think. Do you seriously believe that something as powerful as a GOD would REALLY care about if a guy slept with another man? Or a woman was with another woman? I don't think something as big and mighty as a GOD would care.
As humans, we are able to commit wrongs and rights as we wish. If we wish to be gay, we can. I myself am not, but I am a supporter of freedom of ALL reasonable beliefs and practices.

[Feball3001]

Right, your going to use the "the devil made them do it" speech. If what your saying is true, then God is not as powerful as people think. Also, if God, as I have ALREADY STATED, was truly as all knowing as people say, He would have annihilated the CAPABILITY to be gay, thus avoiding the whole problem. If Satan is powerful enough to affect that many humans on so grand a scale, AND reprogram how God created humans, then Satan is more powerful than we currently think.

Notthe devil did not make them do it but he puts the temptation there to do wrong, because God gives us a freewill he lets us do wrong weather it is on our own accord or if the devil was the one influening us. Satan is a fallen angel so he is powerful enough to influence and affect so many humans even on a grand scale. Because God gave us a free will he lets us do what we wanted weather it is wrong or write.

Do you seriously believe that something as powerful as a GOD would REALLY care about if a guy slept with another man? Or a woman was with another woman? I don't think something as big and mighty as a GOD would care.

Yes I think that God cares about if people do this, we are his creation, his children so he cares about what we do. He would be un uncaring God if he did not care about what his children did.

[Someguy]

I don't think that people get what I'm saying.
If God really is GOD, then he is all knowing, and therefore would have seen this coming and made us incapable of being gay in the first place to avoid the mess, thus foiling Satan altogether and "protecting" us. Argue with THAT!

[TheRealFolkBlues]

Free will. Next.

[Someguy]

So I'm guessing you believe that being gay is a choice?

[TheRealFolkBlues]

possibly

[Someguy]

Ok.
I'm not going to deal with any idiot who thinks being gay is an option/choice, because it's not.
I'm above arguing with anyone on such a low level. And I'm not referring to any specific person, I mean if ANYONE in the conversation believes that, I drop the argument because it's like arguing with a brick wall. I'm done.

Please excuse the insults, if this is flaming, I do not mean for it to be. It is not directed at any person in specific. I had the same problem in Debate club in High school...dealing with a Right-wing Evangelical. It just angers me.

[TheRealFolkBlues]

"I'm not going to deal with any idiot who thinks being gay is an option/choice, because it's not."

Nice "argument".

[agrajagthetesty]

Honestly, why would anyone choose to be gay? They have to deal with ignorance and people trying to strip them of their rights, like you are. If it was a choice, nobody would be gay.

In any case, seeing as all your arguments are based on religion, I return to my previous point. Not everyone takes the Bible as the ultimate truth. If the only reason not to legalise gay marriage is based on the Bible, it certainly should be legalised, as there are millions of people of other faiths around, and prejudice for any reason is unacceptable anyway.

[Someguy]

Thank you, agrajagthetesty!

[agrajagthetesty]

Any time. I don't like to see someone struggling alone. :3

[TheRealFolkBlues]

Honestly, why would anyone choose to be gay?

Because they find it pleasurable. A gay guy would ask, why would any choose to be straight?

They have to deal with ignorance and people trying to strip them of their rights, like you are.

Because I personally feel all sexuality is a choice? The ignorant thing to say would be me saying that homosexuals are just out to spread propaganda or that all they want to do is spread disease.

people trying to strip them of their rights, like you are.

I'm stripping their rights because I believe the federal government has no right forcing churches to marry a gay couple against their own will? The only thing the federal government can do is recognize it, which is fine because of the 14th amendment, but when they say churches are being "discriminatory" because they're exercising not only their property rights, but their first amendment rights, that's where I draw the line.

[Someguy]

I'm stripping their rights because I believe the federal government has no right forcing churches to marry a gay couple against their own will? The only thing the federal government can do is recognize it, which is fine because of the 14th amendment, but when they say churches are being "discriminatory" because they're exercising not only their property rights, but their first amendment rights, that's where I draw the line.

I shall now quote myself to reply to this.

Same sex marriage is not a big deal. If a church wants to get rid of it, they can do so in the confines of their religion. Religions should have no power over ANYTHING, in my opinion, outside of their establishments. If a gay couple can find a church/religion that recognizes them, they should join it and be done with it.

[Chocomage]

That is still one of the biggest Debates going on still, is being gay in your genes, in your head, or a self choice. Throughout history some of the greatest minds have been said to be gay, yet whether it is true or not is up to the eye of the beholder. Michelangelo was gay..... okay what proof? A guy saw him with another guy, you read some poor persons fanfic and took it for truth. I truly believe that the whole being gay thing gets throwing around too much as sort of an insult, a jab to say no this person was not perfect, this society has its flaws, ladidadida..... anyway what I am getting at is unless you are gay, and can sit down an ask yourself why it is you are gay, then I believe that whether it is a choice, or genetic, or in your head as lets say a mental illness even though those are too harsh of words for it, no one will ever be able to tell completely and stay honest. Minds change just as the body does, it gets educated to the point where it can remember and act on certain situations accordingly by reflex, a conditioned response, Therefore if it is mental or genetic we still should viably have the control to change it, whether they want to or not is up to them.

[darkarcher]

Being homosexual is definitely a choice that is based upon what a person thinks will make them happy. To say "I can't help it" is to degrade yourself to the level of a common animal that is completely based on instincts.

I'm not saying a person can't be born with natural tendencies, but to say that you must or cannot be gay due to your birth just doesn't make sense.

[Someguy]

So that means that being straight is also a choice?

[MrsSallyBakura]

I could choose to break up with my boyfriend and date a girl if I wanted to. I don't want to, but I could. So yes, that is a choice on my part.

I think what darkarcher said hit the point best because it doesn't claim that they can't love each other nor does it discriminate, but rather it shows them that there are other options. It's a lot harder for some people than for others to overcome those feelings, but it is possible. Not every choice out there is easy to make.
It probably sounds like those who are against gay marriage are insensitive... but just because someone wants something, it doesn't mean they should automatically get it. :/

God gave us the capability to be gay, argue with that.

You could justify any sin with that logic. God gave us the capability to murder too. Not that being gay is NEARLY as bad as murder, but you see my point.

[Someguy]

I will repeat this one more time, and I want to see what everyone has to say about it.

Same sex marriage is not a big deal. If a church wants to get rid of it, they can do so in the confines of their religion. Religions should have no power over ANYTHING, in my opinion, outside of their establishments. If a gay couple can find a church/religion that recognizes them, they should join it and be done with it.

If you think a church should not have to marry a couple, you are correct...they don't. But what about the churches that ARE willing? Are you saying that they should not be able to wed the couple? If a church enables gay marriage within the religion, it should be able to do so.

[Brandi]

Love does not have an on or off switch. =/

EDIT: By the way I just joined today =)

[agrajagthetesty]

I could choose to break up with my boyfriend and date a girl if I wanted to. I don't want to, but I could. So yes, that is a choice on my part.

Yes, of course that's true. You can choose who you go out with. Nobody's denying that. But you can't choose who you're attracted to. Otherwise, why would people fall in love with their best friend's boyfriend, the popular kid that everyone wants, etc? People fall in love with an unattainable person all the time. If we could choose who we're attracted to, that wouldn't happen.

It's a lot harder for some people than for others to overcome those feelings, but it is possible.

Tell me one reason that isn't based on religion why someone ought to try to overcome their feelings in the first place. Nobody has acknowledged my point. Not everyone is Christian. Even with Christians, not everyone is against gay marriage. That seems to me to show that homosexuality being a sin is up for debate anyway. Why should people try to fight their feelings if the only reason they've been told to do it is based on a certain interpretation of a book not everyone believes is true?

A gay guy would ask, why would any choose to be straight?

Oh, come on. Being straight is FAR more convenient than being gay. You can marry with no fuss, adopt from wherever you want, you don't get told you've sinned just for falling in love, you're accepted by pretty much everyone, and you're in the most common category when it comes to sexuality. Seriously, people. <img src='/images/emoticons/smiley5.png'>