#31
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Yes, failed capitalism is a 1, successful capitalism is a 2, failed communism is a 0, and successful communism is a 1.5.
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#32
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successful capitalism doesn't exist.
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#33
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Neither does successful communism though for some strange reason you think it does while successful capitalism doesn't?
I think you're just biased. |
#34
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capitalism doesn't even works theoretically. |
#35
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Oh, I see. In your mind they were TRYING for failed communism. I just... you have no idea how much I want to call you a complete idiot right now. If you keep saying nonsensical things I'm going to have to break the rules and do so. |
#36
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well, you are the one defending capitalism, are you not? so you actually are the idiot |
#37
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I am defending capitalism because my life is good. I can go work and buy whatever food I want. If I work hard enough I can buy a lot of things I like. I'm allowed to carry on my life in peace. I don't have to deal with a revolution that'll likely take the life of many people I love because some utter twat seems to think any amount of blood is perfectly justified in the name of their political theology. I'm the smart one here. You have no idea what you're talking about. Just a "useful idiot". If you wanna get better at arguing your point, maybe beg grimfang to teach you how to debate without just repeating yourself over and over. |
#38
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OK, while I know I am going to regret this; Holy, Kronus is right, communism has never been tested - the closest we have ever seen is socialism, which is vastly different.
Also, there are many examples in capitalist organisations of socialist and communist ideals actually strengthening the workforce's work-ethic, not weakening it, as your Government would like to brainwash you to believe. Many companies now will base their bonus schemes on the performance of the organisation as a whole, rather than individuals performances - this shown be shown to strengthen teamwork and give people a sense of responsibility towards their co-workers thereby strengthening the organisation as a whole. However, Capitalism is really rather wasteful - in terms of resources, work allocation and distribution - and is the reason that currently we have more obeast people in the world than staving people. Last edited by Fat1Fared; 07-22-2013 at 01:34 PM. |
#39
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okay, so you have a good life by performing slavery and that is why it is better? don't tell me there is no slavery, there is. no, non of those who tried communism really tried it. |
#40
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#41
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I decided to apply the same argument that communists use to capitalism. Why can't capitalism work right? Obviously people haven't tried to do it right. But what is true capitalism? If it's total free market capitalism then it's naturally going to allow for things like monopolies, which are bad on nearly every level. So then true capitalism is a bad thing. But what about true communism? Is that a good thing? Yes, better than true capitalism. But what about failed communism, that ends up being perverted and manifests as an authoritarian dictatorship under the facade of a democracy? That's worse than even failed capitalism. But what about capitalism that has its problems solved but keeps general free market practices? Ultimately that's labeled as socialist. A small amount of socialism is good medicine in a free market system. But going totally communist, I believe, will always ultimately result in the same authoritarian result, just like going totally capitalist will always ultimate result in things like monopolies and political strongarming by giant corporations as a result. Quote:
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#42
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and capitalism doesn't work, because it relies on money, but money only exists in our minds. you apparently worship yourself higher than others. |
#43
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Holy, the thing is, Capitalism - true capitalism - has been attempted and it failed woefully. True capitalism took Britain from being the powerful Empire on the planet to recession, starvation and eventually socialism. On the other hand, Keynesian economics took Germany from being a broken post-war nation to being the economic driving force behind modern-day Europe. It was the capitalistic love for deregulation that led to our current recession. The problem with capitalism is that its supporters assume that if everyone is working as hard as they can to survive, they will naturally progress - just simply is not true. Humans will always be far stronger when they work together than when they work for just themselves. Communism on the other hand has never been attempted because no one has even gotten close to setting up a state which fellows actual communist ideals - setting up a totalitarian socialist state and calling it communist, a communist state, it does not make. I mean, the first thing to go in a true communist state is the 'state'. As for the starvation point, I will forgive your ignorance as you do come from a country which contributes about 90 per cent of the obeast people for that statistic (not a real stat), but you have completely missed the point - if we have enough food to have more obeast people than starving people, why is anyone starving and why are both the USA and the UK only three days from starvation at any given time? Last edited by Fat1Fared; 07-22-2013 at 01:55 PM. |
#44
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Money is a representation of the faith in our government and can be easily represented through the purchasing of goods and services rather than relying on archaic trade practices. I do worship myself higher than others. That's a good thing, too. I'm not a hero even though I want to be. Because I love myself and can't bring myself to make Zariu sad by sacrificing myself for her sake. I'm pathetic and I'm weak-willed, but I'm happy. |
#45
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you may still be my high priest. now sacrifice me a virgin.
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#46
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The current recession in the world is a direct result of American policies that led to giving arms to organizations that would later become terroristic in nature as well as giving aid to countries that became free from your imperialistic nation so that they would not turn communist during the long cold war years. America cleaned up after your mess and got ourselves into this problem. As America operates as the country with the monetary standard of the world, our debt issues hurt the economy of the entire world rather than just our own country. We started wars we couldn't pay for due to economic problems caused by terrorist organizations that we once supported, which just resulted in further problems. Our support of Israel doesn't help matters much either. |
#47
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no, they didn't try. they tried socialism |
#48
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Grim would agree with me on this point - revolutionary communism doesn't work. I feel sorry for starving people. I do. But what I'd have to do to help them would hurt far too many people. Some people must be sacrificed. Rather than victims, I see them as heroes. It is because of them that I may sustain the life I wish for. |
#49
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This is a stupid debate and I'm clearly right. |
#50
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#51
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Don't call me stupid, child.
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#52
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I didn't. I said you didn't know the difference between communism and socialism.
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#53
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I can proof that it was never tried. communism has to be worldwide, else it isn't communism.
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#54
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Why can't you understand this. |
#55
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#56
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The people must consent to it or it's just going to result in a revolution. If you want to change minds, however, start elsewhere. I've thought this out more than you, so there's no possible way you could win in a debate with me, nor convert my way of thinking. Not because nobody can but because you in particular can't. Just yesterday biggles changed my mind on something because he was right and I was wrong. But you're not him. You only know talking points. But talking points will fail when you face someone smarter than you. Grow or you won't convince anyone but weak-minded 'useful idiots'. |
#57
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that is the first time in my life that I don't want to argue any more.
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#58
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I haven't been playing much attention to what has already been said, but I'll offer my opinion. Everyone hates taxes. They are essentially theft perpetrated by the government. But most people can understand they are necessary. No one wants to live without the services that are provided by tax dollars. We need roads, we need social programs like medicare and foodstamps, and we need healthcare (even if part of America disagrees). Almost everyone will agree we need these things, but the money has to come from somewhere. It makes sense that the people who benefit from these services be expected to chip in and help pay for them.
Libertarians and those of similar mindsets think the free market can provide all of these services and we don't need to rely on the government. But if that were true, why does the free market consistently fail to provide necessary services at a reasonable standard or cost? The answer is because the free market is ruled by how much money can be gained from these services and not by whats in the best interest of the people. Take the internet for example. In the United States, there is no regulation of internet service despite the fact a reliable internet connection is becoming increasingly necessary to function in any sort of professional capacity. Because of the lack of internet standards, there are many areas in the United States that do not have access to high speed internet, a service that should be treated with the same priority as running water or electricity. The United States lags behind South Korea in internet access because South Korea actually has set standards in place while the United States does not. Internet service providers are free to be as substandard as they want in the United States because there are essentially no consequences for poor service. Many rural areas only have one choice of Internet provider so they can either stick with them or go without. Source: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0...ref=technology The difference is, South Korea had to get their shit together fast after the Korean War so it placed strict regulations on its corporations. Basically, they told them if they were a shit company, they wouldn't be a company any more. South Korea was so poor at this point in its history they couldn't afford businesses that only exist to screw over everyone that wasn't the CEO of the company. These strict regulations worked and now South Korea is a major economic power. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_South_Korea#Rapid_growth_from_1960s_to_ 1980s What some people don't seem to understand is that we are more free because we pay taxes. A bit of extra money doesn't do anyone any good if there are no roads to travel on or no safety net to help them if they have a life threatening disease they can't afford to treat. Is a bum living on the streets anyone's idea of freedom? We owe our high standard of living to the fact that taxes pay for essentials. If anyone has a better idea of how we can maintain this standard of living without taxes I have yet to hear it. |
#59
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Pretty much everything HS said. There aren't too many societies where one can rise or fall regardless of what class they were born into. I like being responsible for my own financial successes and failures. I like deciding that I would enlist into the military and no government told me I had to so I could defend some glorious leader. I like that I have a decent place to live, opportunities to move up or even leave if I want with an education, and I get paid enough to get by and save some cash. Capitalism hasn't failed. Just because it doesn't fit your twisted perceptions of how life should work doesn't mean it isn't successful. For most people in my country, I'd say we have it pretty good with this whole "work hard, play hard" mentality towards economics. |
#60
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you are happy, but only by having slaves. |
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