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#1
05-21-2011
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What is Law?
I don't mean this question in simplistic terminological sense, but I mean it in its true sense.
I mean put simply, law is a set of rules put down by an authoritarian body and then legally enforced by that bodies agents....but is that all law is or is there more to it? -First, the above discounts the fact that many laws in fact do not set down rules but are administration processes which allow the organs of society to function. However in counter to this, it can be said the term rule can be construed widely enough to include positive or empowering legitimisation's just as easily as the negative or de-powering legitimisation's. -Secondly, the above would mean the laws the Nazi's made were actually completely legal, presenting the question...is there some innate sense of natural law which cannot be breached or does law not many in such moralistic terms and it is the process by which law is defined which makes it law....Now some of you may think this is obvious question, but it has been debated for thousands of years, so I wondered what your thoughts were. PS note there are problems with all definitions of law which deal with as come 
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#3
05-21-2011
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Forgive me in advance.
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#5
05-21-2011
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I was making an important point: What is law? Baby, don't hurt me.
Law is an attempt of nobles or equivalent to prevent themselves from being hurt in any way.
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#6
05-21-2011
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law/lô/Noun
1. The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the imposition of penalties. 2. An individual rule as part of such a system. Alright, topic closed, thanks for coming out everyone.
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#7
05-21-2011
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Quote:
Quote:
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#8
05-21-2011
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The only laws that get passed are ones that help the powerful, not those that help the weak. Even those that have a direct impact on the less-privileged have a real intention of putting together a voting block for the powerful.
Ergo, laws are an attempt by the powerful to control the masses.
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#9
05-21-2011
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And the Nazi's were doing it all legal in Germany at the time. If you're the boss you make the rules. If you win the war you write the history books. Just remember that just because something is the law doesn't make it right.
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#14
05-22-2011
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overmind you have been moaning for weeks that there are no serious topics but then ruin one when it comes up <<
....having this locked because cannot be bothered to read more spam about subject I actually care about [ ps yes I am sulky about law ]
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#15
05-22-2011
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Sorry, Fared. :(
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#17
05-22-2011
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no need to be sorry, I know I am being sulky, just wanted good debate as been dead in here for too long
PS Fenrir is making good things about law not being a poteam concept PSS Holy do consider everything in authority is wrong?
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#18
05-22-2011
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There are 'good' effects from 'bad' actions. However, intent is important.
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#19
05-23-2011
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Quote:
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#20
05-23-2011
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Dear Fared,
Laws are a series of valid norms, or ought statements which are backed by a sanction. All the norms in a given legal system can be traced back to the content grundnorm - the foundational norm which gives all subsequent norms their authority and legality, answering the question as to why we ought to obey the law. Laws in and of themselves are neither good, nor bad, but wholly amoral - being only valid or invalid. My experience in Nazi Germany has shown me that even pathological laws are valid laws. Laws are valid of they are enacted under the procedure as founded as part of the Grundnorm. The United Kingdom's parliamentary supremacy represents a fine example of a grundnorm, as does the principle of the Fuhrerprinzip. Also, f**k you Hart for stealing my ideas Yours sincerely, Hans Kelsen
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#21
05-23-2011
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Well, I left it open because I thought that maybe someone would be interested in bringing this thread around, but by request, I shall lock it.
EDIT: Unlocked upon request and word that its spam will not continue. Last edited by MrsSallyBakura; 05-24-2011 at 12:59 AM.
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#22
06-03-2011
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Quote:
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#24
06-03-2011
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Law is that sinking feeling you get when you realize you got a ticket for your car being parked there for 1 minute over the meter.
Law is that fuzzy feeling you get when you spill your drink and trip on the water in a hospital, and realize you can sue both the hospital and the maker of the drink for millions of dollars (ignore that your injuries cost you all of 25 cents). Finally, law is that odd feeling you get when a mod unlocks a thread that got locked for being trolled when OverMind and TitanAura are still around. Seriously, what were you thinking? Also: What is law? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome. Last edited by HolyShadow; 06-03-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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#25
06-03-2011
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So, I went to court and fought the charges, citing race as the motivating factor. It was unjust and I thought I had a case. The law still won.
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#27
06-14-2011
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Alright, i am slightly confused here. If you are asking if there is some objective moral code within us all (and by that i don't mean a code of what is good and evil, but what our natural biological inhibitions prevent us from doing) then i have no idea.
The obvious answer is no, our morals are just influenced by societies thinking but then that moral had to originate somewhere but it is possible that the idea of morality didn't come into being because it is natural, but because we need direction and thus created an idea that became true over time or because we need to distance ourselves from what we consider primitive and morality is considered a function of civilization or because we as humans feel the need to define action some primal selfish part of use needs to have a right and wrong in the world for whatever reason (by the way, though i believe animals can mourn the deaths of their mothers and such, that might be for selfish reasons and not empathy so that doesn't prove morality.) It is also in fact possible that we do just naturally have empathy. if so, perhaps it is because, biologically, humans are pack animals and mother nature decided that to function as a pack we needed to think about the other members of the pack, the greater good and the individual, in order to help the collective survive. of course, what i have written is only about a natural moral line. to speak of law, you must think law has a purpose. law can have many purposes. (some of these might not seem like logical reasons to create law, but what is logically is an entirely different argument, so just go with it for now...though, yes, some aren't all that logical.) -preserve life -preserve property -give direction and purpose, a meaning in life, to humanity, in which case the practicality of the laws don't matter. (this would supposedly mean religion isn't the only opiate of the masses) -to prevent anarchy and create civilization and thus we can call ourselves civilized rather than primitive. -the prevent anarchy in order to organize and define life as neatly as possible and make production and creation most efficient because, well, team work and a common goal don't belong to anarchy -to create community -to allow for the naturally rebellions side of nature to express itself in minor ways, defining boundaries and gray areas. -allow us to feel good about ourselves because of our morality and obedience. -allow us to distinguish between a feigned "us" and "them" (good and bad people) which is useful for moral and when going to war -national pride. law can be the measure for a successful society. and what our laws are can make us feel superior relative to laws we can look down on and consider cruel (that doesn't necessarily mean we would be wrong in doing so.)
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