Bootcamp is getting too easy?

[AllisonWalker]

I went into the Navy May 17th 2011 and I graduated July 15th, and there were huge changes since I left. Women don't have to have their hair cut and they don't allow exercises like eight counts and mountain climbers anymore (apparently it's "hazing"). They also let recruits run around with back packs and water bottles instead of the traditional guardbelts and water canteens.

The problem is, I think bootcamp is getting too easy. They are starting to baby recruits, and because of that, a lot of unfit people are getting through. Like I know in the Air Force, they allow recruits to call home once a week. In the Army, they have break after 5pm. In the Navy, there's no such thing as "breaks" except for holiday routine on Sunday (from 7am-1pm), but even now, they are doing away with certain things.

Does anyone else think this will become a problem?

[HolyShadow]

The most important aspect in military training is to familiarize and build trust between members of a unit, and between units.

There have been studies that show that it's more important for many people to work together than an individual's own strength or proficiency.

I think in military, women should have their hair cut. Hair isn't good for combat in any way. It doesn't help, and indeed hinders in some situations.

I can see how mountain climbing can be useful in a niche situation, but it's important to note that our primary target at the time is in a desert/urban (somewhat) area. While it is somewhat mountainous in some areas, that's not a huge priority, I feel.

As for calling home and breaks... I don't feel as if that's helpful if the worst possible situation happens and they end up being captured and tortured for information. There are hypocrites everywhere, and just because it's against a belief structure doesn't mean they'll find a way to justify it. Mental strength is important in such a case.

I don't know much about this, but from what little I do know, these are my opinions.

[AllisonWalker]

I don't think you understand what mountain climbers are. They're an exercise we did as punishment for being douches in bootcamp. If you messed something up, you did eight counts or mountain climbers until the RDC thought you learned your lesson. They actually help built cardio, so you could run and perform better. Now, for whatever bullshit reason, recruits don't have to do them.

The Navy was the only military branch for the longest time that required women to cut their hair at bootcamp. We can grow it back out afterwards, but we have to keep it within regulations (in a bun), which is far less in the way than having short hair that keeps blowing into your face.

I don't like the whole calling home policy some peope have. When I went to bootcamp, I got some three short ass calls back home. The first one to say I was safe at base, the second after four weeks that only lasted 15 minutes long, and a one hour one after finishing battle stations. When people call home, they always get bad news and fall apart over emotional drama, which isn't good. In most cases, it's better when people have no contact.

You'll get tons of group team work training too, but "one team, one fight" is something the military stresses above all. If one fails, you all fail. If one person gets punished, you all get punished together. That's what IT was about (Intensive Training), and now they are starting to phase that way. I don't like it.

[killshot]

I went into this thread with every intention to make a joke, but its been so long since a serious discussion has come up that I suppose I should take this seriously.

I don't think boot camp really needs to be that difficult. When your daily routine consists mostly of washing expensive war machines, does it really matter how many push ups you can do? Will the enemy ridicule you relentlessly if you cannot make your bed properly? I've obviously never been to boot camp, but from what people have described to me it is mostly bullshit hive mind stuff. You don't have to be able to eat lightning and crap thunder to follow orders.

I would say that what the military needs more than extra push ups is an ethics course followed by a psych evaluation all recruits must pass. When we determine you aren't a psychopath, then you can have a gun. The combat training can come later. This might cut down on the number of senseless civilian massacres in the field.

It should be pretty clear by now that I don't know very much about the military or boot camp. However, I do think they should take who they can get because it wont be long until people stop getting tricked into signing up.

[AllisonWalker]

I don't think you understand how today's military works.

[Xanadu]

forget about the training when do we get our fucking guns!!

[HolyShadow]

Originally Posted by killshot

I don't think boot camp really needs to be that difficult. When your daily routine consists mostly of washing expensive war machines, does it really matter how many push ups you can do? Will the enemy ridicule you relentlessly if you cannot make your bed properly? I've obviously never been to boot camp, but from what people have described to me it is mostly bullshit hive mind stuff. You don't have to be able to eat lightning and crap thunder to follow orders.

My grandfather got a purple heart after being shot in the ass in WW2 waking up his troop at night during a raid.

You gotta be ready to approach any situation when you could die literally at any time. Making sure your bed is made makes sure that you're ready to sleep on time, which means that you'll be able to wake up earlier, which is conducive to a good schedule for that purpose. Making sure war machines are clean lowers the chance of accidents from them being dirty.

The little things can make a big difference in the long run. For example, you have to make sure your gun is always in good condition so it doesn't stick when you really need it. If you don't take care of those small things, they can bite you in the ass in the end.

[killshot]

Originally Posted by AllisonWalker

I don't think you understand how today's military works.

Maybe you should explain it then.

Originally Posted by HolyShadow

My grandfather got a purple heart after being shot in the ass in WW2 waking up his troop at night during a raid.

You gotta be ready to approach any situation when you could die literally at any time. Making sure your bed is made makes sure that you're ready to sleep on time, which means that you'll be able to wake up earlier, which is conducive to a good schedule for that purpose. Making sure war machines are clean lowers the chance of accidents from them being dirty.

The little things can make a big difference in the long run. For example, you have to make sure your gun is always in good condition so it doesn't stick when you really need it. If you don't take care of those small things, they can bite you in the ass in the end.

Don't get me wrong, cleaning is important. I'm just pointing out that it seems silly to put people through hell when the majority of what they do is clean things. Maybe all that training was necessary back in WWII when we had real enemies to fight, but now it doesn't seem that important.

[AllisonWalker]

Wow. We still have real enemies to fight. I might end up being sent to Afganistan to take care of Marines, and there are still hundreds of people coming back home in body bags. There's also the civilians who are taken care of by Navy Corpsman and Army Medics without any charge for medical assistance. Just because we aren't in a world war doesn't mean there isn't a war going on right now. I'm reminded of that everytime I go to my classes, because at least 49 people died in my Navy rating while serving amongst the Marines.

Now, all that cleaning is incrediably important. Not only does it display pride and respect for your uniform and the thousands who died in it before you, but it also shows readiness. How can you be ready to fight during General orders on a ship if your rack is a mess? You can't have loss odds and ends all over in a compartment that could flood. That's one more thing keeping a sailor from reaching the esape hatchet.

There's also the need to keep your weapons always ready and your gear set for deployment. Sometimes crazy shit happens, like during Hurricane Katrina. My instructor had 48 hours to get ready to leave to assist, and that included getting 150 people vaccinated before shipping out. You have to see the big picture.

Everything they make you do in the military has a reason. Some people are just too close minded to figure it out.

[Xanadu]

or lack the mindset, I lack the mindset, hence why I would never join (that and Afghanistan has no cool hats for me to buy and take back home)

[HolyShadow]

Originally Posted by killshot

Don't get me wrong, cleaning is important. I'm just pointing out that it seems silly to put people through hell when the majority of what they do is clean things. Maybe all that training was necessary back in WWII when we had real enemies to fight, but now it doesn't seem that important.

Maybe you don't realize this, but there are plenty of radicals who distort Islam right now attempting to take peoples' lives overseas and on our own shores.

I understand a lot of the people on the left like to pretend there's no danger whatsoever, but there is. We're attempting to dismantle a formless organization. Just because it's a dumb war that can only end badly doesn't mean there isn't a threat.

[killshot]

Originally Posted by AllisonWalker

Wow. We still have real enemies to fight. I might end up being sent to Afganistan to take care of Marines, and there are still hundreds of people coming back home in body bags. There's also the civilians who are taken care of by Navy Corpsman and Army Medics without any charge for medical assistance. Just because we aren't in a world war doesn't mean there isn't a war going on right now. I'm reminded of that everytime I go to my classes, because at least 49 people died in my Navy rating while serving amongst the Marines.

Now, all that cleaning is incrediably important. Not only does it display pride and respect for your uniform and the thousands who died in it before you, but it also shows readiness. How can you be ready to fight during General orders on a ship if your rack is a mess? You can't have loss odds and ends all over in a compartment that could flood. That's one more thing keeping a sailor from reaching the esape hatchet.

There's also the need to keep your weapons always ready and your gear set for deployment. Sometimes crazy shit happens, like during Hurricane Katrina. My instructor had 48 hours to get ready to leave to assist, and that included getting 150 people vaccinated before shipping out. You have to see the big picture.

Everything they make you do in the military has a reason. Some people are just too close minded to figure it out.

Who, specifically, are we at war with? What are the conditions for winning this war? What is our objective and what do we stand to gain by completing it? Just because you call it a war, doesn't mean it is. Just look at the War on Drugs and what a joke that turned out to be. The War on Terror is no different. We have declared war on an abstract concept and all we've manage to do is make more terrorists. We might as well declare war on jealousy or some other concept that's impossible to wage war on. We might be in a war, but our enemies, for the most part, are imaginary.

Its a tragedy that soldiers are dying in this war, but you have to remember that they signed up for it. Whatever their reasons were for joining, they knew the risks. Who I feel sorry for are the innocent people we are attacking who had no say in whether or not they want to fight. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but a disproportionate amount of civilians have died because of this pointless war. When I say we don't have any real enemies, I'm talking about our troops killing people who don't have the means to defend themselves.


Once again, I'm not dismissing the importance of cleaning the equipment. What my comments are implying is that it seems silly to say boot camp is too easy when it prepares you for a life of rinsing and scrubbing things. The actual combat training is handy, but considering most soldiers never see action, a less demanding training session would probably suffice. I fully understand the need for cleaning and maintenance, except for maybe the fixation on bed making. It is both healthier and more natural to leave it unmade, but in true military fashion, appearances are worth more than practicality.

[HolyShadow]

Originally Posted by killshot

Who, specifically, are we at war with? What are the conditions for winning this war? What is our objective and what do we stand to gain by completing it? Just because you call it a war, doesn't mean it is. Just look at the War on Drugs and what a joke that turned out to be. The War on Terror is no different. We have declared war on an abstract concept and all we've manage to do is make more terrorists. We might as well declare war on jealousy or some other concept that's impossible to wage war on. We might be in a war, but our enemies, for the most part, are imaginary.

So... Osama Bin Laden never existed? Or his little pawns? How bout the new terrorist leaders. They don't exist?

I suppose you're off to use the vorpal blade to slay the jabberwocky and save narnia, eh? You're living in a fantasy world, after all.

These people who not only harbor resentment but wish to act on it exist. These people want to kill us. We wish to eradicate those who wish to do harm to us. It's not nice, but it's true. To pretend that these people who are acting based on the twisting of the principles of a particular belief structure do not wish harm upon us is to ignore all incidents of terrorism since we became at odds with these people not after 9/11, but rather decades earlier.

Its a tragedy that soldiers are dying in this war, but you have to remember that they signed up for it. Whatever their reasons were for joining, they knew the risks. Who I feel sorry for are the innocent people we are attacking who had no say in whether or not they want to fight. I don't have the statistics in front of me, but a disproportionate amount of civilians have died because of this pointless war. When I say we don't have any real enemies, I'm talking about our troops killing people who don't have the means to defend themselves.

Name them or gtfo.

Once again, I'm not dismissing the importance of cleaning the equipment. What my comments are implying is that it seems silly to say boot camp is too easy when it prepares you for a life of rinsing and scrubbing things. The actual combat training is handy, but considering most soldiers never see action, a less demanding training session would probably suffice. I fully understand the need for cleaning and maintenance, except for maybe the fixation on bed making. It is both healthier and more natural to leave it unmade, but in true military fashion, appearances are worth more than practicality.

So you'd rather people die from being unprepared than have absolutely no consequences from being overprepared.

You gotta sort out your priorities, bro.

___

Really, it's rather obvious what we're against is some particularly twisted Muslims, whose base of operations exist in the middle east. These people exist over a plethora of Muslim organizations. Bin Laden was treated as their leader until we had him off'd. People take over for him, and people will take over for them.

We had information that Saddam Hussein had access to materials to make WMDs, and the Bush administration apparently twisted that into saying that they had WMDs and we were there to find them.

In reality, Saddam was supplying money and resources to Al Qaeda, and we moved in on them in order to cut off that supply chain. There's still money being moved around in some middle eastern countries that ultimately ends up in terrorist organizations' hands.

What makes all of this horrible isn't necessarily the scandals in and of themselves, but rather how a bunch of leftists decided to constantly attack Bush for absolutely everything he did. Like everything that went wrong in his 8 years of presidency, from the weather to lack of information, was entirely his fault. What makes Obama look good by comparison is purely that the same liberal media refused to blame Obama for absolutely anything going wrong in his administration, including things that were directly his fault, for years. This isn't truth. It's politics. Especially when 9/11 skeptics pop up and try to demand others consider their point of view while not addressing any points at all against their own. It's fine to be a skeptic. It's not fine to ignore factual information to try to make people look bad.

Personally I think the tactics involved in the war aren't wise from seeing the big picture. But if you realize that most of the countries there have seen us as enemies and imperialists for years, you start to realize that small-scale spy actions wouldn't work with the other countries' approval.

We can't very well move away from Afghanistan now because we've always been a country that tries to help rebuild fallen enemy lands, since Japan (probably earlier than that, but I don't like to learn about wars as much as people in American history). It's the thing that makes us different than the imperialists of old who would turn enemy countries into supply chains. We aren't out there forcibly taking oil fields (which is what Trump wants because he's a businessman and not a politician), so claiming it was a war for oil doesn't make much sense. In fact, if you actually look at trends in the slightest you'd realize that the instability has caused upward trends in the prices in oil. This also doesn't make sense in the "We're there to get oil" way of thinking of things.

[Xanadu]

...I killed that terrifying chicken at bristol

[killshot]

So... Osama Bin Laden never existed? Or his little pawns? How bout the new terrorist leaders. They don't exist?

I suppose you're off to use the vorpal blade to slay the jabberwocky and save narnia, eh? You're living in a fantasy world, after all.

These people who not only harbor resentment but wish to act on it exist. These people want to kill us. We wish to eradicate those who wish to do harm to us. It's not nice, but it's true. To pretend that these people who are acting based on the twisting of the principles of a particular belief structure do not wish harm upon us is to ignore all incidents of terrorism since we became at odds with these people not after 9/11, but rather decades earlier.

Yes, Bin Laden was a threat for a very brief moment in time. He did a lot of damage with the resources he had and was responsible for one of the greatest tragedies in American history, but he was in no way capable of waging war against the United States. After Osama went into hiding he might as well have been dead. Do you think he was plotting world domination from his retirement home in Pakistan? When US troops found him he was jacking off and eating Cheetos. It was pretty clear he hasn't had any power since 9-11.

As for the radical Muslims, they may have the motive to harm us, but they lack the ability. Sure they can make some IED's and blow a few people up, but so can every redneck in the south. If you're worried about radical religions destroying America, doesn't Fred Phelps and his ilk count as terrorists? He's every bit as vile and evil as the extremist Muslims but you don't see anyone shooting his people.

Do you know why we were attacked on 9-11? It wasn't because Muslims hate our freedom or any other such nonsense. It was because of our support of Israel, our military presence in Saudi Arabia, and sanctions against Iraq. This came from Osama Bin Laden himself. We were attacked because of our military presence in the middle east and to solve that problem we sent more troops to the middle east. See what I mean about breeding more terrorists?

Name them or gtfo.

Name who? The civilians we are massacring? Will this do?

So you'd rather people die from being unprepared than have absolutely no consequences from being overprepared.

You gotta sort out your priorities, bro.

I've already explained myself twice. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Really, it's rather obvious what we're against is some particularly twisted Muslims, whose base of operations exist in the middle east. These people exist over a plethora of Muslim organizations. Bin Laden was treated as their leader until we had him off'd. People take over for him, and people will take over for them.

We had information that Saddam Hussein had access to materials to make WMDs, and the Bush administration apparently twisted that into saying that they had WMDs and we were there to find them.

In reality, Saddam was supplying money and resources to Al Qaeda, and we moved in on them in order to cut off that supply chain. There's still money being moved around in some middle eastern countries that ultimately ends up in terrorist organizations' hands.

Let me quote you a passage from Robert Dreyfuss's article Apocalypse Not.

The idea that al-Qaeda might take over Iraq is nonsensical. Numerous estimates show that the group called Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) and its foreign fighters comprise only 5 to 10 percent of the Sunni insurgents’ forces. Most Sunni insurgents are simply what Wayne White—who led the State Department’s intelligence effort on Iraq until 2005—calls POIs, or “pissed-off Iraqis,” who are fighting because “they don’t like the occupation.” But the foreign terrorist threat is frequently advanced by the Bush administration, often with an even more alarming variant—that al-Qaeda will use Iraq as a headquarters for the establishment of a global caliphate. In December 2005, Rear Admiral William D. Sullivan, vice director for strategic plans and policy within the Joint Chiefs of Staff, delivered a briefing in which he warned that al-Qaeda hoped to “revive the caliphate,” with its capital in Baghdad. President Bush himself has warned darkly that after controlling Iraq, Islamic militants will “establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia.”

The reality is far different. Even if AQI came to dominate the Sunni resistance, it would be utterly incapable of seizing Baghdad against the combined muscle of the Kurds and the Shiites, who make up four fifths of the country. (The Shiites, in particular, would see the battle against the Sunni extremist AQI—which regards the Shiites as a heretical, non-Muslim sect—as a life-or-death struggle.)

Al-Qaeda's power has been greatly exaggerated by the Bush Administration. Its likely they will dissolve completely over time regardless of US Military action. In fact, our presence is likely making things worse by making it easier to recruit new members to fight off the US invasion.

What makes all of this horrible isn't necessarily the scandals in and of themselves, but rather how a bunch of leftists decided to constantly attack Bush for absolutely everything he did. Like everything that went wrong in his 8 years of presidency, from the weather to lack of information, was entirely his fault. What makes Obama look good by comparison is purely that the same liberal media refused to blame Obama for absolutely anything going wrong in his administration, including things that were directly his fault, for years. This isn't truth. It's politics. Especially when 9/11 skeptics pop up and try to demand others consider their point of view while not addressing any points at all against their own. It's fine to be a skeptic. It's not fine to ignore factual information to try to make people look bad.

And here comes the part about Bush's actions secretly being the fault of the left. Its all the liberal media's fault. Damn those liberals anyway. While I won't argue Bush got crap for things that couldn't possibly be his fault, it isn't unfair to blame him for many of the problems facing America today. I can find sound clip after sound clip of Dick Cheney saying a war in Iraq would be, quote, "a quagmire," but the Bush Administration went ahead and attacked Iraq anyway, with faulty intelligence no less. He sold us on an unwinnable war that we adamantly refuse to back out of. I honestly don't see why conservatives have such a problem with Obama, because he is largely just continuing where Bush left off. This says to me that most conservatives have no idea what is going on and only care if their party is in control of the white house.

We can't very well move away from Afghanistan now because we've always been a country that tries to help rebuild fallen enemy lands, since Japan (probably earlier than that, but I don't like to learn about wars as much as people in American history). It's the thing that makes us different than the imperialists of old who would turn enemy countries into supply chains. We aren't out there forcibly taking oil fields (which is what Trump wants because he's a businessman and not a politician), so claiming it was a war for oil doesn't make much sense. In fact, if you actually look at trends in the slightest you'd realize that the instability has caused upward trends in the prices in oil. This also doesn't make sense in the "We're there to get oil" way of thinking of things.

We left Vietnam when then cost of war became too great, so why can't we back out of Iraq? The idea that we can't leave because of tradition doesn't make any sense to me. I agree with you that this is not a war for oil and at this point I don't see how someone came claim that it is. If our goal was oil, we would have it by now. The war has become a show of military might and is about the US saving face on this disgrace of a war.

[Xanadu]

and how does this have to do with bootcamp being to easy, its one question...

[HolyShadow]

 

Originally Posted by killshot

Yes, Bin Laden was a threat for a very brief moment in time. He did a lot of damage with the resources he had and was responsible for one of the greatest tragedies in American history, but he was in no way capable of waging war against the United States. After Osama went into hiding he might as well have been dead. Do you think he was plotting world domination from his retirement home in Pakistan? When US troops found him he was jacking off and eating Cheetos. It was pretty clear he hasn't had any power since 9-11.

You have no proof at all that he hadn't had a following. Just because he was found jacking off and eating cheetos means very little.

As for the radical Muslims, they may have the motive to harm us, but they lack the ability. Sure they can make some IED's and blow a few people up, but so can every redneck in the south. If you're worried about radical religions destroying America, doesn't Fred Phelps and his ilk count as terrorists? He's every bit as vile and evil as the extremist Muslims but you don't see anyone shooting his people.

Did he blow up a major landmark and kill thousands of people? No? Then you're right. He's just as much of a threat and we should declare war on him.

Do you see the issue here?

Do you know why we were attacked on 9-11? It wasn't because Muslims hate our freedom or any other such nonsense. It was because of our support of Israel, our military presence in Saudi Arabia, and sanctions against Iraq. This came from Osama Bin Laden himself. We were attacked because of our military presence in the middle east and to solve that problem we sent more troops to the middle east. See what I mean about breeding more terrorists?

Alright, so then we should withdraw support for Israel and... let them... kill them. Is that what you're suggesting?

Name who? The civilians we are massacring? Will this do?

Ah, so then all our soldiers-- every single one-- is killing random people over there. There's NO POSSIBLE WAY that's the result of actions of a bunch of jackasses who would probably end up doing that anyway. No, ALL American soldiers are evil.

Never link to the Washington Post for me. They're one of the most biased news organizations out there.

I've already explained myself twice. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Soooooooooo you do want people to die. Because you see all American soldiers as evil and slaughtering innocents for sport.

Let me quote you a passage from Robert Dreyfuss's article Apocalypse Not.

*Reads the word progressive*

...

*Realizes progressivism was the indirect cause of ww1, ww2, wars before that, and the mess we're in*

Yep... don't like him already. Link me directly to his article?

Al-Qaeda's power has been greatly exaggerated by the Bush Administration. Its likely they will dissolve completely over time regardless of US Military action. In fact, our presence is likely making things worse by making it easier to recruit new members to fight off the US invasion.

And as long as we support Israel in any way, they'll continue to fight us, regardless of whether we're actually over there or not.

And here comes the part about Bush's actions secretly being the fault of the left. Its all the liberal media's fault. Damn those liberals anyway. While I won't argue Bush got crap for things that couldn't possibly be his fault, it isn't unfair to blame him for many of the problems facing America today. I can find sound clip after sound clip of Dick Cheney saying a war in Iraq would be, quote, "a quagmire," but the Bush Administration went ahead and attacked Iraq anyway, with faulty intelligence no less. He sold us on an unwinnable war that we adamantly refuse to back out of. I honestly don't see why conservatives have such a problem with Obama, because he is largely just continuing where Bush left off. This says to me that most conservatives have no idea what is going on and only care if their party is in control of the white house.

I find that insulting. It's the same tired old "They're too stupid to understand" theory. I don't like Bush. I found him to continually make bad choices left and right. Usually however, I chalk it up to bad luck and too much faith in random chance working out, which just never happened.

I dislike Obama, however, much more. I find him to be the most pandering jackass I've ever seen. He's failed to keep most of his campaign promises, takes credit for killing Bin Laden despite all of his actions impeding the search for him and publicly disliking the war (yet for some reason continuing it), and his fiscal policies are backward and repetitive. The left-wing media CONSTANTLY tries to defend him regardless of any wrong he does, and allows him to associate with and say whatever hate-filled people and speech he wants without any repercussions. The media is biased both ways, but the left refuses to admit any bias at all on their part. They simply ASSUME that they're right about absolutely everything, and treat everyone else like they're stupid-- EXACTLY what you're doing here. Get over yourself, yeh git.

We left Vietnam when then cost of war became too great, so why can't we back out of Iraq? The idea that we can't leave because of tradition doesn't make any sense to me. I agree with you that this is not a war for oil and at this point I don't see how someone came claim that it is. If our goal was oil, we would have it by now. The war has become a show of military might and is about the US saving face on this disgrace of a war.

The problem is that if we leave, countries would be overrun overnight. Personally I think we should sign a defensive treaty with their destroyed army and leave. That way if someone does invade we're dealing with that instead of an endless troop presence there. At the least it would serve as a deterrent.

Mainly, you have to realize that the media over in the middle east constantly preaches hatred toward the West, primarily the US and Israel. They have kids shows there about killing jews with airplanes. I mean... yeah.

There's a rather large presence of radical Muslims whose mindset is essentially similar to that of Christians during the Crusades. The left constantly rails on Christians for their actions then, yet don't seem at all alarmed when a group of people who think essentially the same are allowed to fund organizations that want nothing more than to act out their wet dreams of "Kill the jews".

Obviously not all Muslims are like this, but a lot of the media there is. That means that they can more easily twist the message of Islam, just like the right-wing AND left-wing media twist their own original messages to be something ugly and false.

When did liberalism, whose message is that of freedom, become a banner by which political socialists gather to force people to redistribute wealth regardless of whether they want to or not?

Obama isn't a communist, he's just a douche. I've met communists, and they've changed my mind about them to some extent. Communism as a philosophy is essentially charity. It's a good thing. When politicians get ahold of it, they turn it into an ugly way of theft and robin-hooding money. The difference is in force.

High taxes, in order to fund social programs which largely benefit the poor, is a form of socialism. The thing that makes it ugly regardless of what you call it, however, is how force is being applied. THAT'S what makes it theft. It's not freedom. It's not liberalism. It's socialism. Fairness, yes, but not freedom or choice. It's sad that people on the left have turned into people who support that kind of backwards overall policy. You've all been brainwashed, imo.

You're right. It's off-topic. And I'm done arguing. This is right around the point that I start to feel bad about having my own opinion, which is why I don't like arguing as much as I used to. Good day.

[AllisonWalker]

Who treats enemy combatants when they get injuried? The American military. Who will give free medical care to any civilian who comes into a US base looking for help? The American military. Who only shots when fired upon? American soldiers and Marines. I can't really take you seriously, Killshot, because I know the rules of engagement better than you do and half the crap you're saying is coming out of your ass.

Let's get back on topic please.

[killshot]

Everybody mad. This is why we can't have nice things. Our discussion was the natural progression of the topic. There's nothing of the original topic left to discuss.

You're right. It's off-topic. And I'm done arguing. This is right around the point that I start to feel bad about having my own opinion, which is why I don't like arguing as much as I used to. Good day.

It was nice of you to stop the discussion after posting the most inflammatory shit that insults me as a person rather than defeating my argument. At least you got the last word.

I can't really take you seriously, Killshot, because I know the rules of engagement better than you do and half the crap you're saying is coming out of your ass.

Yes, I'm the only person so far to provide sources and I am the one making stuff up. I'll save time during my next argument by linking directly to my anus.

[AllisonWalker]

Originally Posted by killshot

Yes, I'm the only person so far to provide sources and I am the one making stuff up. I'll save time during my next argument by linking directly to my anus.

You didn't provide any solid resources, while I have several months of military training that has taught me what is and isn't acceptable in the combat zone. Along with that, for my job, I know a lot of the world medical techs do in the middle east is humanitarian. We have better medical expertise. The civilians go to us for help, and help them we will.

Please do that.

[killshot]

Originally Posted by AllisonWalker

You didn't provide any solid resources, while I have several months of military training that has taught me what is and isn't acceptable in the combat zone. Along with that, for my job, I know a lot of the world medical techs do in the middle east is humanitarian. We have better medical expertise. The civilians go to us for help, and help them we will.

Please do that.

I wasn't trying to imply I know more than you on the subject, as you are obviously more qualified to speak about military matters. I only objected to your comment about me pulling things out of my ass.

Please do what, exactly?

[Fat1Fared]

Originally Posted by Xanadu

and how does this have to do with bootcamp being to easy, its one question...

lol, though this is true, listening to some of the redneckingham comments is just too funny too stop.

[Xanadu]

I could open up a thread about anything semi serious in this board and the same people would be there screaming about stuff that has little relation to the actual topic...I should try that actually

[killshot]

Originally Posted by Xanadu

I could open up a thread about anything semi serious in this board and the same people would be there screaming about stuff that has little relation to the actual topic...I should try that actually

At least this one didn't devolve into another religious argument. Give us some credit here.

[HolyShadow]

Powerful, messy debate is the trademark of a working Republic.

[Xanadu]

trademark of young people who think they know everything and feel even more to talk about it

[HolyShadow]

Originally Posted by Xanadu

trademark of young people who think they know everything and feel even more to talk about it

I'm talking about the freedom by which you can express your opinions without it being declared treasonous and resulting in your execution (or censorship, to a lesser extent).

[ThePRPD]

Originally Posted by killshot

At least this one didn't devolve into another religious argument. Give us some credit here.

No, it still went off into an irrelevant debate and tangent.
__
I know each military's respective BC are slightly different from one another so I guess it all depends? Despite how each one may vary, boot camp in general has become less harsh compared to thirty to sixty years ago.

I'll be shipping off to Boot Camp (Coastguard) November 15. CG boot camp lasts eight weeks.

[AllisonWalker]

Originally Posted by ThePRPD

No, it still went off into an irrelevant debate and tangent.
__
I know each military's respective BC are slightly different from one another so I guess it all depends? Despite how each one may vary, boot camp in general has become less harsh compared to thirty to sixty years ago.

I'll be shipping off to Boot Camp (Coastguard) November 15. CG boot camp lasts eight weeks.

Coast Guard probably won't be all that bad. The food was pretty decent at Great Lakes, and as long as you use common sense, wake up for watch, understand your General Orders, and know rank, you'll be fine. And I know CG rank is the same as Navy, so it isn't all that difficult. Just don't act stupid and "don't be that guy."

Have fun with IT.

;)

[ThePRPD]

Hehe, I'll try~
I have most of my GO memorized. The only ones I have trouble memorizing are orders numbers six and eleven. I have my Ethos memorized so now all I have to take on are the ranks, phonetic alphabet, and the terminology.

My camp will be over a Cape May, New Jersey. Trust me, I don't want to be "that" guy.