Marijuana: Why All The Hate?

[BryyMiller]

Originally Posted by PersianSpice

Sup dudes and dudettes. Haven't been on here in a while and thought I'd have a good 'ol cannabis discussion. There was a topic a while ago but I think it'd be best to start a fresh one. Anyways -

What's with all this hate on marijuana? I know we live in a society that's perpetually getting more and more controlled by media but a farce as big as why a small plant is outlawed is pushing it. Marijuana has never killed anyone, it's never made anyone stupid (directly at least), and it's definitely not a trigger to make someone want to go commit crimes. Why don't people see that? Almost everything we're taught in school about why weed is bad for you is either over-exaggerated or a flat out lie.

Cannabis kills brain cells? Debunked in a study conducted several years ago. The original myth originated from some scientists pumping marijuana smoke into monkeys, not even letting them breath. They did lose brain cells, but from suffocation rather than smoking.

It's addictive? Caffeine was proven more addictive than marijuana. Less than 1% of America's population actually form a dependency on it. There's no reason to ban a substance because of POTENTIAL addiction. That's absurd logic. In that case pretty much damn near everything has to be outlawed.

And what's more depressing is the fact that the government didn't even know they were banning it to begin with, they were simply following some rich asshole who didn't want to lose millions in the timber industry who was threatened by hemp. That asshole, William Hurst, owned a bunch of newspapers and published a propaganda article on how marijuana was being used by people of color (blacks, hispanics) and causing them to rape women. So not only is the criminalization of marijuana founded on lies, it can also be argued that racism was involved here, too.

So what's everyone's take on this whole situation?

.... is this seriously a serious fucking topic?

[HarleyThomas1002]

Originally Posted by BryyMiller

.... is this seriously a serious fucking topic?

They've proven marijuana kills brain cells so long as you don't breathe.

[Gamemaster300]

Harley, are you sure you didn't get some words mixed up??

[Kanap]

no no he has them in the right order.

[Ostinato]

Originally Posted by HarleyThomas1002

They've proven marijuana kills brain cells so long as you don't breathe.

I don't know what you mean by "so long as you don't breathe." Maybe you're trying to be sarcastic or something?

Regardless, a simple google search will show you that marijuana does not kill brain cells. It's just not toxic enough.

I'm more inclined to say that any harm that can come from marijuana is not from the drug itself, but from the temporary impaired thinking that results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDVmgUeFkE0
(On a side note, I can't figure out how to embed youtube videos...)

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

 

it's bad

[HarleyThomas1002]

Originally Posted by Ostinato

I don't know what you mean by "so long as you don't breathe." Maybe you're trying to be sarcastic or something?

Regardless, a simple google search will show you that marijuana does not kill brain cells. It's just not toxic enough.

I'm more inclined to say that any harm that can come from marijuana is not from the drug itself, but from the temporary impaired thinking that results:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDVmgUeFkE0
(On a side note, I can't figure out how to embed youtube videos...)

I was being sarcastic.

[MrsSallyBakura]

Originally Posted by BryyMiller

.... is this seriously a serious fucking topic?

It's more serious than most of the topics in this subforum, unfortunately.

[HarleyThomas1002]

That's embarrassing.

[Ostinato]

Originally Posted by HarleyThomas1002

I was being sarcastic.

I still don't get the sarcasm, but as long as we agree that marijuana doesn't kill brain cells I'm good.

Originally Posted by Ninjasplaycardgames2

 

it's bad

While I agree that it's not the best thing to ingest, there's a lot of other things that are worst, but legal, which people consume. So, yeah, it's "bad", but "bad" defines a whole slew of industries that are particularly successful. People know tobacco, fast food, and alcohol are "bad" but the companies that produce the stuff are booming. So, what does that tell you about people?

I'm also of the opinion that the government should focus on trying to be a better financial advisor before trying to be my babysitter. Also, some anger management counseling wouldn't hurt either.

[greymagick711]

Then why put another 'bad' substance on the market in additionto all the worse substances already there?

Among all the terrible illegal things out there, it's true marijuana is definitely not the worst. But compared to the more easily available substances, it has a greater effect in smaller quantities. The market just doesn't need another 'bad' substance.

...I don't like saying that it's bad, but I don't see it's potential of ever being good. It's just bad in overdoes, which is what people do naturally. People don't generally have the brain power to keep their craving for a drug in check, so it will never be used in moderation (which is okay for substance), unless prescribed (but even then, they tend overdose).

[Ostinato]

Originally Posted by greymagick711

Then why put another 'bad' substance on the market in additionto all the worse substances already there?

Among all the terrible illegal things out there, it's true marijuana is definitely not the worst. But compared to the more easily available substances, it has a greater effect in smaller quantities. The market just doesn't need another 'bad' substance.

It's already on the market ... the black market, that is. Simply outlawing marijuana doesn't make it disappear. If people want something, they'll find ways of obtaining it illegally.

However, if you legalize it, you take the control of the market out of the hands of criminals and place it with the government. If the government was a bit more generous, they'd pass on such control to the free market and let corporations fight over it.

Originally Posted by greymagick711

...I don't like saying that it's bad, but I don't see it's potential of ever being good. It's just bad in overdoes, which is what people do naturally. People don't generally have the brain power to keep their craving for a drug in check, so it will never be used in moderation (which is okay for substance), unless prescribed (but even then, they tend overdose).

I find this odd. Of all the drugs I know about, marijuana has shown the most promise of doing "good" - recreational abuse aside. Everyone knows about medicinal marijuana, but who smokes cigarettes for medicinal purposes?

[greymagick711]

It's the nature of the addictiveness that makes it so dangerous--the cravings that people feel when not consuming it, their obsession of this plant to compensate for something. In that respect, though less immediate harmful effects than say, cigarettes on the respiratory system, it much more potent.

But then again, what's wrong with feeling good, even the drug induced feeling of pleasure? Nothing. It's the how strong it addictiveness is.

Cigarettes and alcohol don't have that ability that marjiuana has to completely take over and prevent someone to become disinterested in food, in moving around, in sex. They don't have the ability to induce so quickly and hard a high like it does, either--such an altered state that it completely incapacitates the user with minimal dosage.

This drug is strong. But like you said, it has its medicinal uses as well. It's well used for bringing calm and relief to patients, to whom it is necessary. Though I would prefer using it, as opposed to synthetic drugs, to kill pain. All the other lay-users use it, but not for medical purposes--people who might be perfectly fine, yet want to feel even better just because.

On second thought, perhaps there is something wrong with said people to begin with. A well-balanced person should not need nor want the drug in the first place. It would just be waste.

Even if the government controls the marijuana, why would the gangs stop? Most likely, the amount a person can purchase would be monitored. Maybe they'll tax the hell out of it to discourage purchase, I don't know. But no doubt, people would want more, and feel the need to obtain it illegally.

If something so incredible as marijuana and its properties is only available to those able to buy it--then there will be discord among those who can't afford.
If it's available to everyone, worst case scenario, we'll just have a stoned society unable to break out of their addiction.

It's perfectly fine as a medical drug, where it (hopefully) will be used only out of best intentions.

[AdjacentOrigin]

"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again." –Bill Clinton

Ah, Bill.

Anyways, I'm certain that many people can agree that marijuana can work wonders on the human body. But like all drugs should not be abused. It is my opinion that marijuana should be legalized for medicinal purposes along with other drugs with medical benefits. It certainly would alleviate the tax problem and release people who are in jail for rather victimless crimes.

[Fat1Fared]

Originally Posted by AdjacentOrigin

"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again." –Bill Clinton

Ah, Bill.

Anyways, I'm certain that many people can agree that marijuana can work wonders on the human body. But like all drugs should not be abused. It is my opinion that marijuana should be legalized for medicinal purposes along with other drugs with medical benefits. It certainly would alleviate the tax problem and release people who are in jail for rather victimless crimes.

=There is no such thing as victimless crime, but still that is whole other debate so lets not go into it lol,

=while ostinito's comment of such profound wisdom, managed to completely miss the point of everything grey was saying, I think grey is somewhat over playing the dangers of weed is same way, many under play them, because this is a nasty drug, especially if misused, however it is not worse thing we can do to our bodies.
-In regards to weed, the real problem with it, is that it is unpredictable, while there is any argument that its effects can be no worse than beer or smoking (already been done to death, so won't go into any further) their effects are generally predictable depending on how they are abused, while weed is far from predictable, their have been cases of poeple smoking less than few times and ending up in psychiatric wards because of it, while other cases of poeple who smoke it very day, having very little negative side-effects and certainly no worse than side-effects of smoking similar amount.

=However one thing must say is that this "medical" agrument is full of crap, medical studies show all these illnesses which use it, can be treated equally effective by a range of other painkillers, which all far more stable to use

=Next onto this whole tax argument, well already explained why economically it is bad, but someone brought up Amsterdam, oh yes Amsterdam, well first Amsterdam is no where near as weed legal as may think and two, the reason it works in Amsterdam is because of three things:

1=Amsterdam simply has most liberal culture their is and so its poeple will work to make this work, something unlikely to happen in other cultures

2=Amsterdam is very small place, meaning control and regulation is far more practical there than would be in places like US

3=Amsterdam makes money out of weed because it is basically only place anyone would go to, where it is legal and so makes lot out of tourism that way, the money its makes would substantially less if lots of other countries had legalised weed

[AdjacentOrigin]

There is no such thing as victimless crime, but still that is whole other debate so lets not go into it lol,

True. However, the personal, private, and conservative use of marijuana doesn't generally cause death or corporal harm to oneself or other people. Unless you extrapolate it beyond that to people killing for marijuana but that could apply to bascially everything so there's no point.

However one thing must say is that this "medical" agrument is full of crap, medical studies show all these illnesses which use it, can be treated equally effective by a range of other painkillers, which all far more stable to use

People can get addicted to painkillers too you know.
Obviously, marijuana shouldn't be used exclusively all the time but it must be noted that medicinal marijuana doesn't just treat pain, but also a whole host of other issues including chronic depression, nausea, and multiple sclerosis. It's true that more research needs to be done but it's wrong to dismiss the whole thing as there are well documented benefits to marijuana use for certain conditions.

[Fat1Fared]

Originally Posted by AdjacentOrigin

True. However, the personal, private, and conservative use of marijuana doesn't generally cause death or corporal harm to oneself or other people. Unless you extrapolate it beyond that to people killing for marijuana but that could apply to bascially everything so there's no point.

=Well like said, whole other debate, but it is one of those arguments I am vary of, like the argument of necessary

People can get addicted to painkillers too you know.
Obviously, marijuana shouldn't be used exclusively all the time but it must be noted that medicinal marijuana doesn't just treat pain, but also a whole host of other issues including chronic depression, nausea, and multiple sclerosis. It's true that more research needs to be done but it's wrong to dismiss the whole thing as there are well documented benefits to marijuana use for certain conditions.

=I was not actually on about addiction, because sadly for any drug that is problem and weed is probably less addictive than certain painkillers as the addiction is mental one, however it is the other problems which I am on about, most of these painkillers have lot less side effects, both in the present and future based considerations, as for my point, well you sort of brought it up perfectly, it doesn't "treat" anything, it merely covers it up, now admittedly in certain area's that is currently all we can do, but taking the 3 examples you brought up:-

1=chronic depression=well most will know my opinion in general, in regards to drugs for mental illness, and here weed is worst thing use, as its effect my balance you out when on high, but that then leaves you far worse off once effects disappear, because leaves mental and emotional state even less balanced and more dependant on drugs to keep self "stable" and though I am sure some would love to spend whole life stoned, you simply cannot live a productive life that way.

2=Nausea=Well admit, not sure know much about what on about here, however it would have to be pretty serious "nausea" to make think justifies using weed

3= scoliosis=While this one does have some justification, Like said are other drugs available which more suitable to the task

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=I was not actually on about addiction, because sadly for any drug that is problem and weed is probably less addictive than certain painkillers as the addiction is mental one, however it is the other problems which I am on about, most of these painkillers have lot less side effects, both in the present and future based considerations, as for my point, well you sort of brought it up perfectly, it doesn't "treat" anything, it merely covers it up, now admittedly in certain area's that is currently all we can do, but taking the 3 examples you brought up:-

1=chronic depression=well most will know my opinion in general, in regards to drugs for mental illness, and here weed is worst thing use, as its effect my balance you out when on high, but that then leaves you far worse off once effects disappear, because leaves mental and emotional state even less balanced and more dependant on drugs to keep self "stable" and though I am sure some would love to spend whole life stoned, you simply cannot live a productive life that way.

2=Nausea=Well admit, not sure know much about what on about here, however it would have to be pretty serious "nausea" to make think justifies using weed

3= scoliosis=While this one does have some justification, Like said are other drugs available which more suitable to the task

I know I said I wouldn't comment on anything else that you post, but I can't resist.

There is no such thing as a "mental" addiction, only neurological ones. Addiction is caused when the brain suffers through repeated use of chemicals. It'll grow accustom to those chemical changes it goes through while under the influence of whatever chemical it is, actually creating a physical need for those changes (increased flow of endorphins being one of them). Thus, the person who abuses whatever this drug is feels ill, feeling much like when they are starving of nutrients.

Another illness where marijuana helps the person is with cancer.

[Fat1Fared]

Originally Posted by Seraphim

I know I said I wouldn't comment on anything else that you post, but I can't resist.

There is no such thing as a "mental" addiction, only neurological ones. Addiction is caused when the brain suffers through repeated use of chemicals. It'll grow accustom to those chemical changes it goes through while under the influence of whatever chemical it is, actually creating a physical need for those changes (increased flow of endorphins being one of them). Thus, the person who abuses whatever this drug is feels ill, feeling much like when they are starving of nutrients.

Another illness where marijuana helps the person is with cancer.

=While I am sure you feel very clever and though I will give credit, yes mental addict is not wholly perfect way of explaining it, I couldn't be bothered to try and spell the actual term properly, so I went for imperfect description, however your also completely wrong, there are many things people get addicted to, which have no physical effect on their mind to cause addiction, the addiction is completely within their own mind, this comes from many things and comes under many types, but the most common is simply things where poeple like the feeling so much that they to have it again and again and this eventually turns into a form of addiction. Weed works in this way, as weed is not like heroin or even smoking, it does not actually physically change your chimerical balance to make you addicted to it, which is why technically you don't get addicted to weed, but people had already moved past that bit and we all knew what kind of addiction we were on about, because some poeple do get form of addiction to weed

=Also Sera, don't try to take the moral ground of cancer, cancer is another which has several drugs that are far more effective and though I know you want me to get all beat up, because you said cancer, knowing cancer is one of worse things that happen to someone and so thought I may have to back track here, but I still don't agree. Who knows maybe one day my views will change, but at this time, I think the argument of weed as medical drug is ropey one.
-And though suspect many disagree with me (which fair enough, I personally am no medical expert) just something I believe

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=While I am sure you feel very clever and though I will give credit, yes mental addict is not wholly perfect way of explaining it, I couldn't be bothered to try and spell the actual term properly, so I went for imperfect description, however your also completely wrong, there are many things people get addicted to, which have no physical effect on their mind to cause addiction, the addiction is completely within their own mind, this comes from many things and comes under many types, but the most common is simply things where poeple like the feeling so much that they to have it again and again and this eventually turns into a form of addiction. Weed works in this way, as weed is not like heroin or even smoking, it does not actually physically change your chimerical balance to make you addicted to it, which is why technically you don't get addicted to weed, but people had already moved past that bit and we all knew what kind of addiction we were on about, because some poeple do get form of addiction to weed

=Also Sera, don't try to take the moral ground of cancer, cancer is another which has several drugs that are far more effective and though I know you want me to get all beat up, because you said cancer, knowing cancer is one of worse things that happen to someone and so thought I may have to back track here, but I still don't agree. Who knows maybe one day my views will change, but at this time, I think the argument of weed as medical drug is ropey one.
-And though suspect many disagree with me (which fair enough, I personally am no medical expert) just something I believe

Oh excuse me, I had not realized that marijuana stopped being a psychoactive drug that affects brain function. That is does not cause a change where the brain adapts to it, becomes more tolerant to its effects. That a person will not suffer any withdrawal symptoms at all. Also, I did not realize that behavioral addictions didn't include an addiction to a naturally made substance that exists in your body called endorphins. That endorphins weren't released when performing behavioral addictions, e.g. gambling.

I wasn't suggesting that marijuana could substitute all treatments of cancer, I meant that it could replace pain medication in some cases and used along with in some other cases. It certainly has less detrimental side-effect than most of the powerful pain medication that are opiate-based.

[Fat1Fared]

Sera this is why i generally cannot be bothered to talk to you,

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Oh excuse me, I had not realized that marijuana stopped being a psychoactive drug that affects brain function.

=I never said it wasn't this, I said its effects are ones which do not cause the bodily to physically crave the effects by physically changing way body works, it is mental craving, Jesus, if we want to get technical, chocolate is more addictive than weed on your idea of how addiction works

That is does not cause a change where the brain adapts to it, becomes more tolerant to its effects. That a person will not suffer any withdrawal symptoms at all.

=Again, the effects are mental ones, not physical, 99% of weed users can stop whenever they wish without any real problem (not real stat,) those get addicted not physically addicted, it doesn't change the physical chimerical balances or neurofines of the body in order to naturally make body crave more of it, the personally simply likes the effects so much they want more of it and become dependant that way

Also, I did not realize that behavioural addictions didn't include an addiction to a naturally made substance that exists in your body called endorphins. That endorphins weren't released when performing behavioural addictions, e.g. gambling.

=So what your saying is you agree with me?????
-Endorphins get released when you fight with someone and can cause people to get addicted to fighting, and that has nothing to do with drugs, my point being this is natural possess of the body, so it is completely different to taking chemicals into you which physically change the chemical possesses within your body and way body reacts to things, Jesus you even release Endorphins when on toilet, it is completely natural thing in your body which weed does not actually change the possess of and there is some evidence out there to say weed doesn't even cause release of Endorphins at all, making this completely moot -_-,

[MrsSallyBakura]

Fat1Fared is right. People can be addicted to the Internet, pornography, video games, texting, TV, sex, etc.

Addiction works in more than one way, Seraphim. Yes there are neurological addictions and those are the ones that cause the most physical harm, but there are other types of addictions.

[Spoofs3]

Originally Posted by MrsSallyBakura

Fat1Fared is right. People can be addicted to the Internet, pornography, video games, texting, TV, sex, etc.

And I am addicted to such things 8D

[Seraphim]

Most inappropriate use of emote ever. Addiction, of any kind, can become a life-threatening disease.

[Seraphim]

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=I never said it wasn't this, I said its effects are ones which do not cause the bodily to physically crave the effects by physically changing way body works, it is mental craving, Jesus, if we want to get technical, chocolate is more addictive than weed on your idea of how addiction works

I never said it's addictiveness is as severe as to chocolate or (to a much greater extent) heroin. These things actually have chemicals that directly influence the brain. Yes, even chocolate.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=Again, the effects are mental ones, not physical, 99% of weed users can stop whenever they wish without any real problem (not real stat,) those get addicted not physically addicted, it doesn't change the physical chimerical balances or neurofines of the body in order to naturally make body crave more of it, the personally simply likes the effects so much they want more of it and become dependant that way

Like I said before, it's addictive is not strong enough to work so quickly, but it is possible to become addicted to it. Especially through repeated use. It is certain people that can choose to not continue with there use of it that aren't affected. Also, I wish to see a statistic that shows how many people used marijuana and then quit without ever using it again, those who quit, but then used it once more (doesn't matter however long or how many times), and those who never quit. I doubt those who quit forever are as close to 99%. Of course, any study done on marijuana seems to be to big of a taboo.

Originally Posted by Fat1Fared

=So what your saying is you agree with me?????
-Endorphins get released when you fight with someone and can cause people to get addicted to fighting, and that has nothing to do with drugs, my point being this is natural possess of the body, so it is completely different to taking chemicals into you which physically change the chemical possesses within your body and way body reacts to things, Jesus you even release Endorphins when on toilet, it is completely natural thing in your body which weed does not actually change the possess of and there is some evidence out there to say weed doesn't even cause release of Endorphins at all, making this completely moot -_-,

I didn't say they're the main reason behind an addiction certain addictions, but the do assist it. Anyhow, there are many other chemicals released by the brain under the influence of a "drug" (be it an actual drug or not) that help an addiction to it. I was just saying one that came to mind. The psychology of a person also helps build an addiction. Let's say sex addiction. A common general cause behind it sometimes is an early exposure to sexual material, acts viewed, or assault. Of course, that does not make it definite that those will influence that person to become a sexual deviant, but it certainly assists.

Originally Posted by MrsSallyBakura

Fat1Fared is right. People can be addicted to the Internet, pornography, video games, texting, TV, sex, etc.

Addiction works in more than one way, Seraphim. Yes there are neurological addictions and those are the ones that cause the most physical harm, but there are other types of addictions.

And I'm saying that technically there is only one kind of addiction because neurological addictions and behavioral ones eventually go hand-in-hand. With behavioral addictions, repeated use of their crutch causes a feeling of euphoria because of the endorphins and release of hormones. All kinds of addiction are just in different areas of the same scope, but with a different subject to it and effects on the person and their life. But no matter what the subject of the addiction is, it is still an addiction. No matter what lane you take on that road, it still leads to a path of possible ruination.

Well, once again, I've lead us off on a tangent. I have given my piece of mind and will speak of this no more.

[Fat1Fared]

Look Sera, your now just changing what you said or what I said or you saying what I said, as you said it first, so know what this is pointless conversation, therefore, you're right I'm wrong, problem solved,

[BryyMiller]

Originally Posted by Ostinato

I still don't get the sarcasm

.... I would not start doing drugs.

Originally Posted by AdjacentOrigin

"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again." –Bill Clinton

Ah, Bill.

Yes, because trying something and not liking it makes you a prude.

I've tried pot, alcohol, and cigars: don't like them.

[Ganjamira]

People are just afraid of Cannabis, because their image of it is totally wrong. Most of them think you see pink elephants and you´ll take herooine in two months, actually cannabis is an "Step-in-drug. (<-don´t know the englisch word for "Einstiegsdroge"...)

I smoke this stuff for 6 years and I can tell, there are no pink elephants and I don´t take hard drugs.

In fact marijuana is defferent to every user! Some people shouldn´t chill, because they get lost in lazyness or get just lost anywhere, but the most chillers are more normal than other straight-edge-buissnessheads. Okay, what I ment with NORMAL is to be a hippie....tolerant, nice, all-over-intrested, creativ, humorous....

Maybe marijuana is just a option to help escape from this grey world. But i didnt ment halluzinations, but the way of an selfinstructed life in a social circle of other alternative people. Further i think, its just this alternative-side of the Smokers thats afraid the normal society. Chiller means to them just dirty hippie, thats why ganja is hated....

[Ganjamira]

Ahhh, the addiction.... if you smoke it without tobaco, theres no addiction. just the nicotine makes a addiction, furthermore the addiction is just psychological.
Its a lots more the HABIT, if you do anything a long time regulary, it will become nasty to give it up.

[Turtlicious]

Especially something so damn enjoyable